Escape From 'The New Normal'?

[AngloHispanic]

I'm currently based in the interior of São Paulo state, Brazil, about 190km from São Paulo city.

There is an abundance of rural land here, of extremely high quality in terms of soil, topography, water and access to markets.

This rural land is priced at around $3,000 an acre of arable land.

There is access to good services and amenities if you buy land not far from medium-sized cities (Itapetininga, Sorocaba, Campinas, Itu, etc.). Even the smaller towns are quite good but obviously you'll have to go to a larger city to get top-notch medical care and etc.

Security is not a serious issue here, as it may be in urban areas here. Mostly opportunisitc snatching if you just leave expensive things lying around unattended.

Corona legislation is about as bad as other places in the Americas (i.e. worse than Asia, not as bad as Europe, CA & AUS), but is less enforced, and you can find your way around most of the obstacles which are being put in the way.

I'm seriously thinking in offering help to foreigners who dream of being able to buy a beautiful and productive farm, but who find this sort of dream prohibitevely expensive in their home countries.

What does the forum think of this?

 

[Lennysrabbit]

Maybe it's that flesh eating bacteria.

Or DNA spying software

We're all going to die.

Resistance is futile

I think it's interesting that these vids suddenly appear just as the vax becomes available to the masses...

"So, we're not pressuring you... you don't HAVE to take the vax to travel/socialize/work... you can just let us stick these squirmy black fibers deep inside your nose"

What COULD they be though?

'DNA spying software'... why? Why not just take your actual DNA?

RNA has to be stored super cold.

Nanotech... that's possible, but the cost? For billions of tests?

And how could they add just one/a few strands to each test? They are in the packet and make their own way to the tip?

Whatever, nightmarish.

This can't actually be happening.

 

[ScannerLIV]

You missed the part where these black things are on masks.

 

[SeekingTruth]

Not sure if this has been posted here yet.

 

[Lennysrabbit]

I'm currently based in the interior of São Paulo state, Brazil, about 190km from São Paulo city.

There is an abundance of rural land here, of extremely high quality in terms of soil, topography, water and access to markets.

This rural land is priced at around $3,000 an acre of arable land.

There is access to good services and amenities if you buy land not far from medium-sized cities (Itapetininga, Sorocaba, Campinas, Itu, etc.). Even the smaller towns are quite good but obviously you'll have to go to a larger city to get top-notch medical care and etc.

Security is not a serious issue here, as it may be in urban areas here. Mostly opportunisitc snatching if you just leave expensive things lying around unattended.

Corona legislation is about as bad as other places in the Americas (i.e. worse than Asia, not as bad as Europe, CA & AUS), but is less enforced, and you can find your way around most of the obstacles which are being put in the way.

I'm seriously thinking in offering help to foreigners who dream of being able to buy a beautiful and productive farm, but who find this sort of dream prohibitevely expensive in their home countries.

What does the forum think of this?

Good idea. Even better you could offer a complete solution (land/residency/worker/how-to-farm seminars/plants underway) and sell it for way less than US, but still way more than if you did it yourself locally.

 

[kel]

I'm currently based in the interior of São Paulo state, Brazil, about 190km from São Paulo city.

There is an abundance of rural land here, of extremely high quality in terms of soil, topography, water and access to markets.

This rural land is priced at around $3,000 an acre of arable land.

There is access to good services and amenities if you buy land not far from medium-sized cities (Itapetininga, Sorocaba, Campinas, Itu, etc.). Even the smaller towns are quite good but obviously you'll have to go to a larger city to get top-notch medical care and etc.

Security is not a serious issue here, as it may be in urban areas here. Mostly opportunisitc snatching if you just leave expensive things lying around unattended.

Corona legislation is about as bad as other places in the Americas (i.e. worse than Asia, not as bad as Europe, CA & AUS), but is less enforced, and you can find your way around most of the obstacles which are being put in the way.

I'm seriously thinking in offering help to foreigners who dream of being able to buy a beautiful and productive farm, but who find this sort of dream prohibitevely expensive in their home countries.

What does the forum think of this?

Love it. One of my friends here is from southern Brazil, as well, and I'm trying to get him to join my farmstead idea. Practically speaking, given that most (serious) people in the project are centered around the east coast of the US we'll probably end up there (we're all hoping to bring our parents along and such... getting that many people to move to another continent can be tough in terms of logistics and convincing set-in-their-ways types), but nonetheless I have been looking out of curiosity in southern Brazil, Argentina, etc. It's mostly just a lark, but it's interesting.

 

[aynrus]

I'm currently based in the interior of São Paulo state, Brazil, about 190km from São Paulo city.
..
This rural land is priced at around $3,000 an acre of arable land.

$3000/acre is average agricultural land price in the US....

 

[aynrus]

Moscow .... Also they did not shut down basic healthcare or restrict it in any way - thus the super-killer-virus has not caused any uptick in mortality.

They did.
People could not reach any healthcare provider, emergency/911-type, ambulance...just faced endless wait with no one reachable. In Russia, it's a different system of getting appointments than in the US and also a lot is based on home visits by doctors, by the way. There was big trouble getting medical care for real conditions and unable to get ambulance, or hospitals turning people down.

 

[AngloHispanic]

$3000/acre is average agricultural land price in the US....

That's what the statistics say (3500-4500 dollars per acre on average).

However, the nuances matter a lot when interpreting statistics.

I'm very confident that you won't be able to find a few acres of extremely fertile land, with long growing seasons, clean water and close to big markets, with low capital outlays for infrastructure, for that price.

That US average surely includes a *lot* of land which can only be purchased in very large packets of hundreds of thousands of acres, and which would require a heavy capital outlay to make economically viable (because of soil quality, weather, and other issues)

The nuances matter.

If it is true that it is easy to find plots of 4 acres of good land for sale in, say, Texas or California for 12.000 dollars, then I stand corrected. I find this very, very hard to believe, though.

 

[Stadtaffe]

I have caught up on reading this thread, some interesting new posts..

I would suggest you consider Uruguay, Paraguay, and Chile.

So not Colombia, Nicaragua, Brazil.. I have never been to South America and but the European Winter is so damn long each year it's tempting to find a nice place to go for a few weeks or months when it's at its worst. Chile especially being a desert on the other side of the Andes mountains, I am curious about the climate there.

To me it's a bad thing, I guess. I come from the world of crossing on the red light.

Don't go to Germany especially the south

I've just heard from a friend who was in panama... life on the islands looks fantastic.

But panama is not an island..

I have found that as a people and culture the French are arrogant, conceited, stuck up, deceitful, prone to treachery (they always worry other people will try to get them fired because they themselves always scheme this way so they project themselves outward onto others), backbiting, they give insincere proclamations, and they never show their true colors unless it is time to lash out and strike you. They are selfish, cold, aloof, and the have a tendency to behave purposefully obtuse and they seldom mean what they say or say what they mean, they prefer to be ambiguous in their speech and they talk much but convey little.

I was about to write vive la France then read this. They are definitely a certain way, and despite a certain link I have with the place over many years, I only ever visit and travel there but do not move there. Could not bring myself to write anything quite that negative about them though.. It's more that they just are a certain way, and even if you speak their language, if you are not quite that way yourself you can't really click with them.

I have absolutely no interest in going to Asia. I am fine visiting Asian countries, learning about Asian cultures, reading their poetry, literature, history, but I have no desire to be absorbed into their society at the expense of my heritage and the heritage of my future children.

I am generally against any European person permanently residing in Asia.

I wouldn't live in Central America for various reasons [mainly crime and incredible instability]. South America has areas which have crime on par with, or even higher than, Central America, but for the most part South America will almost always be safer than Central America, with some exceptions such as Panama and Costa Rica which tend towards long-term stability and are fairly safe overall.

I would consider Paraguay, Uruguay, and Chile for a second residence or a "global retreat" to have a small 50-100 acre ranch/farm with a residential caretaker, a place to vacation for 4-8 weeks per year during the height of the winter in the USA and as a "back-up option" if the USA crumbles and I decide, "it is time to pack some gold bars, silver, guns, and other things into a chartered flight, and get out..."

It is painfully obvious to any observer educated in the classics, history, economics, and human nature, that the USA is in long-term decline and likely irreversible long-term decline at that. It doesn't mean fortunes cannot be made in the USA.

People tend to absorb a significant amount of their general culture in terms of behavior, attitudes, etc. Eastern Europeans strike me as a bit too mercenary and aggressive in how they seek almost transactional relationships. I would consider Uruguay, southern Brazil, Paraguay, Chile, for finding a woman. There are a lot of great European immigrant settlements/villages in those places.

I also have basically no interest in Asia. Hearing about the crime in central America reminds me of why I don't experiment much outside of Europe, or have not for a long time. Also not speaking Spanish. As you or someone wrote, even the southern Mediterranean parts of Greece or Italy are cold even in Spring or Autumn, does not even have to be Winter and so it is tempting reading about those central American places at the moment. Can you say even by PM what is an example of a European village there..

 

[holgerdanske]

I have caught up on reading this thread, some interesting new posts..

I also have basically no interest in Asia. Hearing about the crime in central America reminds me of why I don't experiment much outside of Europe, or have not for a long time. Also not speaking Spanish. As you or someone wrote, even the southern Mediterranean parts of Greece or Italy are cold even in Spring or Autumn, does not even have to be Winter and so it is tempting reading about those central American places at the moment. Can you say even by PM what is an example of a European village there..

Real seasons are part of your cultural heritage and are deeply ingrained in our way of life. Why give that up? Harden the f... up ;-)

 

[Oberrheiner]

Look at it this way. If you can drop the average IQ of a group you also eliminate the threat posed by the smart individuals within it because the group is no longer capable of being led effectively.

The current west seems to be the perfect counter-example, no ?
Always stupider masses, yet always easier led by an also stupider elite.

I have found that as a people and culture the French are arrogant, conceited, stuck up, deceitful, prone to treachery (they always worry other people will try to get them fired because they themselves always scheme this way so they project themselves outward onto others), backbiting, they give insincere proclamations, and they never show their true colors unless it is time to lash out and strike you. They are selfish, cold, aloof, and the have a tendency to behave purposefully obtuse and they seldom mean what they say or say what they mean, they prefer to be ambiguous in their speech and they talk much but convey little.

You've seen too many fonctionnaires it seems

 

[Lennysrabbit]

I'm really thinking of heading to Panama and living off-grid onone of the islands...

Things are going to go Israel in the west, so there's really no civilization to lose, right?

What I'm worried about though is how hard they're going to push the Agenda 2030 'restricted areas'.

I guess no-one knows, but it's safe to predict it'll be incremental, so first no tourists, then locals only, then residents only, then... if those friggin' fibers in the tests really are worming their way through my system I'll be dead.

Right?

 

[Easy_C]

The current west seems to be the perfect counter-example, no ?
Always stupider masses, yet always easier led by an also stupider elite

Not really. This is the same country that built an entire highway system in less time than it now takes to build a single roundabout.

 

[LawTalkingGuy]

I have caught up on reading this thread, some interesting new posts..

So not Colombia, Nicaragua, Brazil.. I have never been to South America and but the European Winter is so damn long each year it's tempting to find a nice place to go for a few weeks or months when it's at its worst. Chile especially being a desert on the other side of the Andes mountains, I am curious about the climate there.


Don't go to Germany especially the south


But panama is not an island..


I was about to write vive la France then read this. They are definitely a certain way, and despite a certain link I have with the place over many years, I only ever visit and travel there but do not move there. Could not bring myself to write anything quite that negative about them though.. It's more that they just are a certain way, and even if you speak their language, if you are not quite that way yourself you can't really click with them.


I also have basically no interest in Asia. Hearing about the crime in central America reminds me of why I don't experiment much outside of Europe, or have not for a long time. Also not speaking Spanish. As you or someone wrote, even the southern Mediterranean parts of Greece or Italy are cold even in Spring or Autumn, does not even have to be Winter and so it is tempting reading about those central American places at the moment. Can you say even by PM what is an example of a European village there..

Nicaragua is certainly more stable and calm from where it was in the 1980s and 1990s during the civil war, but I wouldn't live somewhere that is along a major transit route for narcotics and borders Honduras and almost borders El Salvador.

Colombia is a long-term chronic mess and I don't believe it is actually safe or stable.

Brazil has some limited potential in the three southern states of Parana, Santa Catarina, and Rio Grande do Sul, but ultimately Brazil is a viciously corrupt nation and I would have no interest in being under the rule of the government in Brasilia or the self-important elites in Sao Paulo or Rio.

As a white man I wouldn't buy property anywhere I thought a mestizo majority population might empower a mestizo revolutionary leftist government to come to power and invalidate land deeds "held by the gringo." This means that if you set yourself up in Colombia, you have to anticipate the possibility of one day losing all of your real estate via the stroke of a pen, and it will happen in a manner where nobody will really care what happened to you and you won't be able to do much about it. This is one of the reasons I won't move to any state that borders Mexico, because within 20-40 years there will be "land reform" in those states at the state level and real estate will be openly taken from white people and given to Central American illegal aliens and mega-corporations employing them to work in agribusiness. It will eventually happen. I won't live in a majority mestizo area because of the ever-present threat of land invasions, land occupations, land reform, insurgency, revolution, communism, etc., because those things seem to go hand-in-hand with mestizo societies.

A lot of people don't really grasp that many mestizos do not believe white people have any legitimate claim to property or the right to live in the Western hemisphere. I have observed an odd love-hate relationship that they seem to have towards white people. It could best be exemplified by the desire of their women to get pregnant by white men [I have never had a time in South America where I had a lack of mestizo women approaching me on the street and offering me sex, asking for sex, marriage offers, requests to sire children with them, offers I declined] but the mestizo men are normally only interested in white men to the extent of attempting a street robbery. It is a sort of situation of "they hate us cause they ain't us." The women know if they can have an encounter with a 6'0 tall white American they may get pregnant and have lighter skin children who will likely be taller than they would otherwise be, and if they really play their cards right they might get into the USA via the man.

As to various climates- I cannot function well in warm climates, I tend to get lethargic and I wind up getting sick much more easily/readily. I tend to be far more active, vibrant, vital, in the winter. Although I do prefer a sunny winter, the cold not only doesn't bother me but it tends to activate me and stir me up with energy.

 

[aynrus]

I also have basically no interest in Asia. Hearing about the crime in central America reminds me of why I don't experiment much outside of Europe, or have not for a long time. Also not speaking Spanish. As you or someone wrote, even the southern Mediterranean parts of Greece or Italy are cold even in Spring or Autumn, does not even have to be Winter and so it is tempting reading about those central American places at the moment. Can you say even by PM what is an example of a European village there..

I can tell what's one example of European village in Paraguay - Hohenau.
This is where Mengele and other Nazis went to hide after the war. It's a safe location, but real estate prices there are insane (one can live much better life in the US spending the same money on real esate). In general, 3K/acre rate (mentioned for Brazil) is the going rate for productive land in the States.
In Paraguay, land is sold for 6K/acre sometimes for smaller parcels like 10 acres.
One has to watch out with those European colonies in LatAm, there had been infamous scams run involving rural land. Lots of Russian-Germans got scammed to invest in land in one of these farming colonies. Also people don't get warned about quality of the land and natural hazards.

I also knew some people who bought properties to live in LatAm but were approached by cartel and told to pay a lot (and I mean a lot) if they wanted to live there and not have anything bad happen to them. Another thing with LatAm, once you put the money in, there's no guarantee you can get them out if you decide it didn't work out and want to sell.
Frankly, places in the West have free areas where there're no signs of Great Reset (I just been to another one yesterday), and one can relocate there (real estate prices in those areas are going to be no more expensive than in LatAm, which has way overpriced real estate considering the state of things there), it's not all rotten as people try to portray. LatAm is a lot more rotten and closer to collapse than the West.

You mentioned the climate in Southern Europe being too cold...I guess a matter of taste, from my standpoint the climate in most of LatAm is too brutally hot humid (means 24-hour A/C for me), except Patagonia and narrow Pacific Coast strip. There's dengue, also stuff like fly larvae under skin affecting animals, farming there will require dealing with that kind of extremely gross stuff, many more parasites and insects, etc.

By the way, when usable land costs about local's one-year pay per acre....these heavy inequality situations tend to end certain way since the start of last century, and in LatAm it's also Natives vs. gringos, on top of things. In Paraguay, there had been kidnappings of Mennonite farmers for ransom for example (some got killed), by communist rebels.

Paraguay's EPP rebels free two Mennonite hostages

The two men were freed after five months in captivity following a ransom payment by their families.

www.bbc.com

Paraguay confirms remains found belong to Mennonite kidnapped by guerrilla EPP

Remains found in a mass grave in the northern province of San Pedro correspond to a Mennonite settler kidnapped two and a half years ago by the self-styled Army of the Paraguayan People (EPP), authorities in Asunción said on Friday.

en.mercopress.com

 

[Stadtaffe]

You mentioned the climate in Southern Europe being too cold...

I freeze myself most of the year in northern Europe, but was naive to think that you could still get some warm in southern Europe in November or March. Europe is great, will stop complaining now. If it would only stop snowing for a moment I would step outside and get on skis. Will brave it in a moment anyhow. That is interesting I had heard many Germans went to south America after the war.

 

[Stadtaffe]

This means that if you set yourself up in Colombia, you have to anticipate the possibility of one day losing all of your real estate via the stroke of a pen, and it will happen in a manner where nobody will really care what happened to you and you won't be able to do much about it.

It sounds like Zimbabwe and other colonies, so that tendency goes beyond Africa. That is a different situation you describe with the women you describe to what I have experienced my probably more limited travels.

 

[aynrus]

I freeze myself most of the year in northern Europe, but was naive to think that you could still get some warm in southern Europe in November or March. Europe is great, will stop complaining now. If it would only stop snowing for a moment I would step outside and get on skis. Will brave it in a moment anyhow. That is interesting I had heard many Germans went to south America after the war.

Depending on what you consider cold for a winter... average daily highs of 50s-60s is a super warm winter for me.

 

[aynrus]

It sounds like Zimbabwe and other colonies, so that tendency goes beyond Africa. That is a different situation you describe with the women you describe to what I have experienced my probably more limited travels.

Goes way beyond Africa. And not likely to be limited to Colombia type of countries in LatAm in the future, by any means, the way things are going.
There're multiple ways to lose real estate investment:
- cartel people come to you and tell to sell it for around 1K or disappear (happened to a family friend)
- simply disappear (happens to lonely, elderly, disabled people, especially), sale papers with forged signature show up (there're notaries that certify those, in cahoots with the cops and cartel, usually)
- country imposes capital controls/can't get the money back out (Argentina was a prospering country relatively recently)
- land is occupied/squatters
- instability/rebels/ethnic violence/civil war or increased crime makes one leave due to safety concerns, can't sell before leaving or isn't worth much
- land is officially confiscated by government action (least likely of all above scenarios)