Eschatology: Mark of the Beast, Great Tribulation, Second Coming

Dijkstra

Pigeon
What do you think about the claim that the RAPTURE will take place this year in october....?

UPDATE - The Rapture at TRUE Feast of Trumpets: October 7th to 9th, 2021 Mathematical Proof
I firmly believe any time a person puts a date or time to when the rapture/tribulation/second coming is to be, you now know a time it absolutely will not occur. "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My father only." It's a special type of hubris to think we mere mortals can reason out God's plans and predict when future events will occur. These events will occur at their appointed hour as set by God Almighty, and concerning ourselves with when that is can often be a waste of time or even lead to sin, such as seen in the church at Thessalonica.
 

donovan

Pigeon
Orthodox Inquirer
What do you think about the claim that the RAPTURE will take place this year in october....?

UPDATE - The Rapture at TRUE Feast of Trumpets: October 7th to 9th, 2021 Mathematical Proof
There is no Rapture. It is completely unbiblical - a very recent, heretical concept.

It's also quite dangerous to believe that God will zap you out of the world so you don't experience tribulation. As Christians, we must embrace suffering until Jesus appears in the clouds and the entire world will see/hear Him. You won't escape pain and suffering - you need to expect it and welcome it as Jesus did.

This explains it perfectly:
 
There is no Rapture. It is completely unbiblical - a very recent, heretical concept.

It's also quite dangerous to believe that God will zap you out of the world so you don't experience tribulation. As Christians, we must embrace suffering until Jesus appears in the clouds and the entire world will see/hear Him. You won't escape pain and suffering - you need to expect it and welcome it as Jesus did.

This explains it perfectly:


My concern is that I am going to fall for the false messiah. How can one differentiate between the true second coming and the false messiah, since it is my understanding that the imposter will be able to work miracles.
 
I thnk that many people take this topic a bit too easy. I've heard sermons from "cutting edge" pastors, with incredible wisdom, who made some VERY GOOD points regarding the (PRE-TRIB) Rapture. For example that the Rapture and the Second Coming aren't the same event, that we should be aware that Christ could come at any moment, comparison between morning star (secret) and morning sun (public),....
I didnt yet fully decide what to believe and also have to put more thinking and praying to have a more clear opinion it. Also there could be "false" Raptures hapenning, "Alien Deception".

Jive Turkey.... the second coming will not occure in secret, the elements will melt and it will hapen after the Antichrist has been reveleaded and the abomonation of desolation. Stars will fall from heaven. In other words WHEN the second coming occurs, all will know it .... Thats why Paul warned so much about it and gave the criterias. I didnt want to confuse anybody, but rather I recommend a more profound study of this topic, because I caught myself also being very closed-minded.... and it seems that was a mistake.

When Im more sure I will post my reasons for my current belief about it.
Thank you for the links!
Rapture_SecondComing.jpg
 
My concern is that I am going to fall for the false messiah. How can one differentiate between the true second coming and the false messiah, since it is my understanding that the imposter will be able to work miracles.

The false messiah will always come first.

Jesus Christ will come with the clouds of heaven. From the sky and believers meet him in the air as he descends. It will be extremely obvious and will be public.

With the Holy Angels and all his saints shining like the sun.

There is no such thing as a "secret" or "private" 2nd coming.

He will certainly not originate from anyone on this earth right now.
 
I thnk that many people take this topic a bit too easy. I've heard sermons from "cutting edge" pastors, with incredible wisdom, who made some VERY GOOD points regarding the (PRE-TRIB) Rapture. For example that the Rapture and the Second Coming aren't the same event, that we should be aware that Christ could come at any moment, comparison between morning star (secret) and morning sun (public),....
I didnt yet fully decide what to believe and also have to put more thinking and praying to have a more clear opinion it. Also there could be "false" Raptures hapenning, "Alien Deception".

Jive Turkey.... the second coming will not occure in secret, the elements will melt and it will hapen after the Antichrist has been reveleaded and the abomonation of desolation. Stars will fall from heaven. In other words WHEN the second coming occurs, all will know it .... Thats why Paul warned so much about it and gave the criterias. I didnt want to confuse anybody, but rather I recommend a more profound study of this topic, because I caught myself also being very closed-minded.... and it seems that was a mistake.

When Im more sure I will post my reasons for my current belief about it.
Thank you for the links!
View attachment 33562

This man disagrees and has written an alternative timeline that disproves the rapture and the 2nd coming as 2 different events:

The rapture occurs after the end of the Tribulation. Not before.
 
What do you think about the claim that the RAPTURE will take place this year in october....?

UPDATE - The Rapture at TRUE Feast of Trumpets: October 7th to 9th, 2021 Mathematical Proof

The penalty of the false prophet is death. So it either must happen. Or you have to disbelieve the RAPTURE as laid out there.

20But if any prophet dares to speak a message in My name that I have not commanded him to speak, or to speak in the name of other gods, that prophet must be put to death.”

21You may ask in your heart, “How can we recognize a message that the LORD has not spoken?” 22When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD and the message does not come to pass or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. The prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.


Also that means that those pushing forward this idea is permanently discredited and you are obligated to never take any prediction of their's seriously ever again.
 
OK.... for everybody who wants to "dig deeper", I also recommend the Video Series on the "Real Bible Believers" YT-Channel. Theres a lot of information to gain from him, he's "pre-trib".... if you can disarm his point of view, that would make you even more sure in your belief. I dont want to temp anybody with false doctrines.

Steven Anderson, Kent Hovind, Alex Jones, and Post-tribulation Rapture THOROUGHLY Debunked Pt 1

Also good to hear, of course, "Steven Anderson", who is against the pre-trib rapture. All valuable sources for somebody wanting to dig deeper.
 
I firmly believe any time a person puts a date or time to when the rapture/tribulation/second coming is to be, you now know a time it absolutely will not occur. "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My father only." It's a special type of hubris to think we mere mortals can reason out God's plans and predict when future events will occur. These events will occur at their appointed hour as set by God Almighty, and concerning ourselves with when that is can often be a waste of time or even lead to sin, such as seen in the church at Thessalonica.

I know what you say,.... I used to speak like that too, but maybe I was tinking too simple and carnal minded. Here's a quote from Revelation:

Revelation 3:3
“Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.”

In other words, IF you hold fast, repent,.... then you will KNOW the hour, right? There's a conflict/ contradiction, right?

Again, thanks everybody for the information provided. If you can put the information, from both camps into a solid conclusion.... then you will be more secure in your belief. Very important discussion. Im glad thats not an "salvation issue".

Also this guy is to be recommended:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxbtCQT58xM

Im also aware that these guys (dispensationalists) COULD be very well part of a deceptive movement.
 
Last edited:

Don Quixote

Kingfisher
Orthodox Inquirer

donovan

Pigeon
Orthodox Inquirer
My concern is that I am going to fall for the false messiah. How can one differentiate between the true second coming and the false messiah, since it is my understanding that the imposter will be able to work miracles.
When Jesus comes back, he won't just "work miracles".
He'll appear in the sky as the risen Lord of creation, the heavens and earth will shake, and the dead will rise to meet him. It'll be the most terrifying/glorious day ever. You will not be unsure if it's Him.
 

Dijkstra

Pigeon
I know what you say,.... I used to speak like that too, but maybe I was tinking too simple and carnal minded. Here's a quote from Revelation:

Revelation 3:3
“Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.”

In other words, IF you hold fast, repent,.... then you will KNOW the hour, right? There's a conflict/ contradiction, right?
Be wary, said apparent contradiction you're thinking might exist is being caused by two pieces of scripture.

No, I do not think any but the Father know when that time is. This does not mean we should ignore our responsibilities, quit our jobs and become indolent because "the rapture's coming!", which is one of many ways believers have abused Christ's sacrifice and which the apostle Paul expressly taught against. But it's also not a call to spend our time applying only our reason and trying to figure out when it will be, as that is the same as burying the talent as in Christ's parable.

It seems plain to me we are to carry on while the Lord tarries, earning our keep honestly, and spending every chance we have serving out of love to further His kingdom for as long as we draw breath. You certainly can look forward to that most glorious of days when we will be caught up in the sky with all the other saints to meet with Him face-to-face. This does not mean any man knows the appointed time.

That you and I are here right now conversing on a forum about this topic is proof that every man who ever predicted the end of days between Jesus' ascension and this very moment, giving any type of date, was unarguably incorrect. I trust that will hold true until that day does come, and I have full faith no man on earth will ever predict it.
 

damiefino

Chicken
Here's a handy reference I found that outlines the various events that have been prophesied, and the anticipated timelines of when they are expected to manifest.

Regarding the mark, the early church Fathers seemed to be of the opinion that:
  • It would be a physical mark
  • It would be connected to the number 666 in some way, possibly a barcode (which already uses 6-6-6 as the control sequence, or somehow bear the antichrist's name, the number of which is 666
  • It is instated during the latter half of the great seven year tribulation (the antichrist spends the first 3.5 years convincing everyone he is the messiah)
  • It will likely come about after a great famine, probably caused from the antichrist causing the rivers to dry up
  • The antichrist will promise food and wine to all who receive the mark
  • The antichrist will later renege on his promise to provide said food and wine, causing all who received the mark to regret that their souls have been condemned for naught
  • The souls that receive the mark will be lost forever and will not be redeemed by the Savior
  • All who resist the mark, refuse to worship the antichrist, refuse to deny Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, and die for the Lord's sake will be blessed above and beyond all the believers who were spared from the great tribulation in the eternal kingdom.
  • The "giants" from Genesis 6 are set to make a comeback in the last days, and will play a big role in enforcing worship of the beast, and persecuting all who refuse the mark.
  • Ultimately, the primary goal of the antichrist and his mark is to trap as many human souls as he can to be dragged with him into the bottomless pit of fire.
 

Gazza

Robin
I want to point out one clear and very logical thing. The Vaccine CAN NOT be the Mark..... because you have to recieve it on the forehead or hand. The Vaccine is recieved on the upper ARM. So this question is solved.... unless somebody explains it spiritually, like that arm could mean "things you do".... or greek language details maybe..... but its surely a precursor.
I think the KJV of the bible is the only version that actually says IN, not On (And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads). You don’t receive a vaccine ON your arm, you receive it IN it. So I tend to both agree and disagree with you. I agree with you about the positioning of where the vaccine is being administered to be conflicting with Revelation 13:16, however I disagree with you regarding how people will receive it (ON their forehead or hand). There also appears to be a specific alluding to the RIGHT hand also. Just my observations, hope it helps.
 

Papist

Robin
The very best book I have ever read on eschatology is The False Christ, by Chris White. It really explains everything well, and fits with what's happening in the world.
 

Dijkstra

Pigeon
I think the KJV of the bible is the only version that actually says IN, not On (And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads). You don’t receive a vaccine ON your arm, you receive it IN it.
If the mark is something produced as a part of our technology base, those astoundingly creepy microchips an extreme minority of humanity willingly has had implanted over the past decade or so seems a good eventuality with what we can currently comprehend. Though a return to more open barbarism and using some form of physically visible brand (literally, like with cattle, or in the more common way via tattoos) really cannot be ruled out I gather.
 

Gazza

Robin
If the mark is something produced as a part of our technology base, those astoundingly creepy microchips an extreme minority of humanity willingly has had implanted over the past decade or so seems a good eventuality with what we can currently comprehend. Though a return to more open barbarism and using some form of physically visible brand (literally, like with cattle, or in the more common way via tattoos) really cannot be ruled out I gather.
To be “branded” or tattooed would still be a mark ON the body, not IN? I’m basing this on the KJV of the bible being more accurate than others. But who knows, I’m no expert.
 
Top