Eugenics!

Ah_Tibor

Kingfisher
Woman
Orthodox
I recently finished "Better for a
All the World: The Secret History of Forced Sterilization and America's Quest for Racial Purity" by Harry Bruinius. While I also read Edwin Black's "War Against the Weak" awhile ago, this one really delves into eugenics as a peculiarly American invention, a way to streamline evolution. (While the other one mostly focuses on how the American eugenics movement was the forerunner of the Nazi one.)

In addition, most of the prominent eugenicists were prominent descendents of Calvinist and Puritan stock. While many stopped believing in God, they retained their sense of predestination and superiority. Also many believed that America needed to be a kind of Edenic ideal (which did not include a lot of people in the picture).

So around 65,000 people in public welfare institutions were forcibly sterilized through an operation. It was pretty clandestine-- while some states (looking at you, California) had laws ok-ing it, a lot didn't and it was always controversial. But the procedure was there.
(They often claimed appendicitis in young women. My mom actually saw this happen in the late 70s/early 80s when working in a city hospital.)

One complained that people suffered from "sterilization hesitancy" (haha sounds familiar)

Interesting sidenote: the general public outcry against Darwinism and evolution being taught in public schools was because it went hand-in-hand with eugenics.

Anyway, 10/10 do recommend.

"The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover the cutting of the Fallopian tubes. Three generations of imbeciles are enough."

--Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.
 

Vigilant

Kingfisher
Woman
I recently finished "Better for a
All the World: The Secret History of Forced Sterilization and America's Quest for Racial Purity" by Harry Bruinius. While I also read Edwin Black's "War Against the Weak" awhile ago, this one really delves into eugenics as a peculiarly American invention, a way to streamline evolution. (While the other one mostly focuses on how the American eugenics movement was the forerunner of the Nazi one.)

In addition, most of the prominent eugenicists were prominent descendents of Calvinist and Puritan stock. While many stopped believing in God, they retained their sense of predestination and superiority. Also many believed that America needed to be a kind of Edenic ideal (which did not include a lot of people in the picture).

So around 65,000 people in public welfare institutions were forcibly sterilized through an operation. It was pretty clandestine-- while some states (looking at you, California) had laws ok-ing it, a lot didn't and it was always controversial. But the procedure was there.
(They often claimed appendicitis in young women. My mom actually saw this happen in the late 70s/early 80s when working in a city hospital.)

One complained that people suffered from "sterilization hesitancy" (haha sounds familiar)

Interesting sidenote: the general public outcry against Darwinism and evolution being taught in public schools was because it went hand-in-hand with eugenics.

Anyway, 10/10 do recommend.

"The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover the cutting of the Fallopian tubes. Three generations of imbeciles are enough."

--Oliver Wendell Holmes

Wifi too has been found to be used as a weapon of eugenics, causing female sterility within 5 generations.

Eugenics means good breeding.
 

Vigilant

Kingfisher
Woman
Sterility within 5 generations:
Man's wicked securing bad breeding, or God's plan to preserve good breeding?

 
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Ah_Tibor

Kingfisher
Woman
Orthodox
The problem with "eugenics" is something called regression to the mean. Even though the idea is that the brilliant cluster together, I think most people know of very intelligent parents who have dull children, or mediocre parents who have a very smart child.

Even the eugenicists had issues with this-- children who wanted nothing to do with them, or ones who didn't turn out as ubermensch as expected. Just as psychologists often are crazy people who want to fix themselves, eugenicists often have generational weirdness they want to breed out.

If you get rid of God, some people want to fill that role and they will always fail. It's comforting in that respect, but a lot of damage can be done in the meantime.
 

Mrs.DanielH

Robin
Woman
Orthodox
Did the books cover Margaret Sanger? What about Bill Gates' dad and the Rockefellers? I'm familiar with their work because of all the uncovered info about Planned Parenthood.
 

Ah_Tibor

Kingfisher
Woman
Orthodox
Did the books cover Margaret Sanger? What about Bill Gates' dad and the Rockefellers? I'm familiar with their work because of all the uncovered info about Planned Parenthood.

Not that far. It's specifically about American sterilization laws. Interestingly, one of the reviews I read on Goodreads complained "why doesn't it cover reproductive rights?"

Because when sterilization fell out of fashion they repackaged it as a "right." Get people to sterilize themselves and you will never be put on trial.

It would be interesting to bridge that gap, though.
 

Ah_Tibor

Kingfisher
Woman
Orthodox
FB_IMG_1626217968771.jpg

I saw this image before and wondered how long it's going to be before "my sterilization protects you!"

Cats don't drop dead every day; they just grow exponentially forever.
 

Atlas Shrugged

Robin
Woman
I would love everyone’s thoughts on this. Really confused me as to what should be done if anything. Now I hate birth control but what would be best in this situation. Woman kept having kids and they kept being taken away. Church family adopted kid number 7 or 8 or heck maybe even 9. Anyway found out every single one was adopted by a different family. Right out of the womb this woman was never fit enough to keep any of her kids. I blurted out maybe she should be snipped but was told that would not be right. Ok for 99% of people yes that would be very wrong. But is there ever a time when someone should be snipped but still have all working parts so one day if they ever get their life in order they can have a family with a loving spouse. Cause my face was like what???? I was a little shocked when I was told no don’t think that way that’s wrong but in my head I was thinking so it’s still cool if baby number 20 is taken away? Yes I also know that situation was super rare but I had a dazed and confused look on my face all day. As always ready for some great responses.
 

Vigilant

Kingfisher
Woman
I would love everyone’s thoughts on this. Really confused me as to what should be done if anything. Now I hate birth control but what would be best in this situation. Woman kept having kids and they kept being taken away. Church family adopted kid number 7 or 8 or heck maybe even 9. Anyway found out every single one was adopted by a different family. Right out of the womb this woman was never fit enough to keep any of her kids. I blurted out maybe she should be snipped but was told that would not be right. Ok for 99% of people yes that would be very wrong. But is there ever a time when someone should be snipped but still have all working parts so one day if they ever get their life in order they can have a family with a loving spouse. Cause my face was like what???? I was a little shocked when I was told no don’t think that way that’s wrong but in my head I was thinking so it’s still cool if baby number 20 is taken away? Yes I also know that situation was super rare but I had a dazed and confused look on my face all day. As always ready for some great responses.
Sterilization would not be biblically ethical, therefore preventing pregnancy is not part of the solution.
If one is a drug addict, banning drugs wouldn't solve the sin.
If the drug addict committed theft or murder as a result of the addiction, then restitution should be required.
For theft, paying back what the addict stole.
For the life stolen through murder, the addict's life should be required.

All sin is theft against God and our neighbour.
Sins can become crime against God and our neighbour.
BUT, do we ban SIN to prevent CRIME?

Prison is a form of sterilization preventing further crime, but that's proven not to be a solution also.

Only God's tried and tested word provides solutions for every area of life, not the arrogance of the new and improved counterfeits of man.
 

Ah_Tibor

Kingfisher
Woman
Orthodox
I would love everyone’s thoughts on this. Really confused me as to what should be done if anything. Now I hate birth control but what would be best in this situation. Woman kept having kids and they kept being taken away. Church family adopted kid number 7 or 8 or heck maybe even 9. Anyway found out every single one was adopted by a different family. Right out of the womb this woman was never fit enough to keep any of her kids. I blurted out maybe she should be snipped but was told that would not be right. Ok for 99% of people yes that would be very wrong. But is there ever a time when someone should be snipped but still have all working parts so one day if they ever get their life in order they can have a family with a loving spouse.

in that case (correct me if I'm wrong) it's the issue she isn't taking care of her children-- so yes, I think something should be done about *her*, like being put into a group-home type situation (or relatives/friends/etc.) where she can't do what she was previously doing, or get arrested.

Eugenics is saying her bad behavior is due to a genetic defect, she should be sterilized so she can still sleep around, but won't leave a legacy. That's why it's at complete odds with Christianity.
 

Atlas Shrugged

Robin
Woman
in that case (correct me if I'm wrong) it's the issue she isn't taking care of her children-- so yes, I think something should be done about *her*, like being put into a group-home type situation (or relatives/friends/etc.) where she can't do what she was previously doing, or get arrested.

Eugenics is saying her bad behavior is due to a genetic defect, she should be sterilized so she can still sleep around, but won't leave a legacy. That's why it's at complete odds with Christianity.
Yes that was her case. She was unfit to take care of every child she birthed. But she continued to get pregnant. Different dads who didn’t care either. It’s a crazy and sad situation.
 

Vigilant

Kingfisher
Woman
in that case (correct me if I'm wrong) it's the issue she isn't taking care of her children-- so yes, I think something should be done about *her*, like being put into a group-home type situation (or relatives/friends/etc.) where she can't do what she was previously doing, or get arrested.

Eugenics is saying her bad behavior is due to a genetic defect, she should be sterilized so she can still sleep around, but won't leave a legacy. That's why it's at complete odds with Christianity.
I'm more concerned about eugenics being used to perpetuate bad breeding in having a prison system.
And glad for laws against incest, which is using eugenics for good.

Edited to add:
I'm even more concerned that the latest in evil eugenics may be
(WWS) world wide sterlization:

"Head of Pfizer Research: Covid Vaccine is Female Sterilization

The vaccine contains a spike protein (see image) called syncytin-1, vital for the formation of human placenta in women. If the vaccine works so that we form an immune response AGAINST the spike protein, we are also training the female body to attack syncytin-1, which could lead to infertility in women of an unspecified duration."

 
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Ah_Tibor

Kingfisher
Woman
Orthodox
Yes that was her case. She was unfit to take care of every child she birthed. But she continued to get pregnant. Different dads who didn’t care either. It’s a crazy and sad situation.

My mom is now the legal guardian of her home health client, who is a non-verbal autistic adult. He was being cared for by his grandmother, and his mom passed away but had some weird mental problems. His dad isn't in the picture at all but has a second family now, and hasn't seen his son in years because he considers him a non-person.

The grandmother is very intelligent (has MENSA member siblings) and has some autistic-like traits, and from what I've observed the other family members are a bit quirky, as well. But I don't think any of them are unworthy of life, even though the mom probably added to her own problems and may have caused some of her son's through heavy drug use.

I think nature has a way evening things out generally, we've made it this far.
 

Vigilant

Kingfisher
Woman
in that case (correct me if I'm wrong) it's the issue she isn't taking care of her children-- so yes, I think something should be done about *her*, like being put into a group-home type situation (or relatives/friends/etc.) where she can't do what she was previously doing, or get arrested.

Eugenics is saying her bad behavior is due to a genetic defect, she should be sterilized so she can still sleep around, but won't leave a legacy. That's why it's at complete odds with Christianity.
Only eugenics used against Christianity is evil.

For example, abortion or sterilzation is typically justified as liberating women from the consequences of sexual promiscuity.
 

Ah_Tibor

Kingfisher
Woman
Orthodox
Only eugenics used against Christianity is evil.

For example, abortion or sterilzation is typically justified as liberating women from the consequences of sexual promiscuity.

"Eugenics" is a made-up word that means a specific thing. It's the systematic weeding out of unfit stock and trying to produce more of another-- even though nobody knows what you'll get anyway.

Christianity calls all to repentance. Eugenics does not, it says "oh well you're screwed-- I'm not, though, and I think too many of you exist!"

Marrying a man because he has nice brown eyes or because he's funny or would make good dad-- that's not "eugenics," even if maybe you have more chemistry because you'll make cute babies together. :)
 

Vigilant

Kingfisher
Woman
"Eugenics" is a made-up word that means a specific thing. It's the systematic weeding out of unfit stock and trying to produce more of another-- even though nobody knows what you'll get anyway.

Christianity calls all to repentance. Eugenics does not, it says "oh well you're screwed-- I'm not, though, and I think too many of you exist!"

Marrying a man because he has nice brown eyes or because he's funny or would make good dad-- that's not "eugenics," even if maybe you have more chemistry because you'll make cute babies together. :)
"Can a Christian promote eugenics?
Should Christians be at all concerned with the quality of physical traits among future generations? These questions are not without controversy. As I mentioned earlier, eugenics has been almost entirely rejected due to the real or imagined atrocities committed by the Third Reich. Many Christians believe that eugenics is entirely contrary to Christian morality. Is this true? Can Christians promote the improvement of the physical stock of future generations through selective reproduction? The answer is that we can and should promote healthy reproductive practices as an extension of traditional Christian marriage. The alternative is to say that Christians ought to have no concern for the physical health of future generations, but this is patently false and even cruel. Given the foundation of Christian morality, what can Christians do to promote a healthier population by eliminating or at least limiting genetic disorders? Here are principles that Christians should embrace concerning eugenics.

First, Christians should promote sexual exclusivity within traditional marriage. Promiscuity leads to poor decisions which results in dysgenics in which people seek out even worse practices, such as abortion, to solve the problems their sins have created. The selection of the right mate is vital to healthy future generations. While there is much that National Socialist Germany did wrong in their quest for eugenics, The Ten Commandments for the Choice of a Mate is sound advice for any man seeking a wife. General Robert E. Lee likewise advised men, “Never marry unless you can do so into a family that will enable your children to feel proud of both sides of the house.”8

Rushdoony explains how the Armenian nation was able to eradicate many genetic disorders through entirely moral means:

Selective breeding in Christian countries has led to a degree to the progressive elimination of many defective persons, however. Among Armenians, arranged marriages prevailed in Armenia to World War I, and a routine demand of parents, before continuing with any further negotiations, was a clear family record genetically for seven generations. As a result, many genetic defects were eliminated and unknown among Armenians. In every Christian country, some form of standard has prevailed. Endogamy is self-imposed eugenics, and no one did this better than the biblical Jews.9
As Rushdoony mentions, endogamy (reproducing within a group) is eugenic. Studies have confirmed that third cousins have an elevated fertility rate compared to other couples. Marriages between fairly close relatives have been common in all societies throughout history, particularly in rural areas. We are commanded by God to be fruitful and multiply (Gen. 1:28, 9:1), and instructed that having many children is a blessing from the Lord (Ps. 127:3-5). We ought to use this knowledge about the benefits of endogamy to promote healthy reproduction by encouraging people to marry within their own ethnic group to someone who shares a very similar background.

Christians should primarily be concerned about the godliness of a prospective spouse, but this does not preclude seeking out a mate who is physically attractive. The Bible speaks of physical attractiveness as a positive for both men and women, and a man’s desire to marry an attractive woman is typically understood as natural and healthy. Men such as David (1 Sam. 17:42), Solomon (Song 5:10), and Absalom (2 Sam. 14:25) are praised for their attractive, fair complexion, and similar praise is given to women such as Sarah (Gen. 12:11-14), Rebekah (Gen. 24:16, 26:7), Rachel (Gen. 29:17), David’s daughter Tamar (2 Sam. 13:1), Absalom’s daughter Tamar (2 Sam. 14:27), Abishag the Shunammite (1 Ki. 1:3-4), the Shulamite woman of the Song of Solomon (1:15-16, 2:10-13, 4:1-10, 6:10, 7:6), and Esther (2:2-7). Studies indicate that physical attractiveness is correlated with general health. Beauty is vain (Prov. 31:30) because it passes away with time until the general resurrection, so it should not be pursued disproportionately, but there is nothing wrong for the pursuit of physical beauty within its proper context.

In addition to promoting healthy reproduction, Christian societies ought to oppose unhealthy reproduction. Incest should be prohibited on the basis of the biblical prohibition and the negative consequences of inbreeding depression. Likewise the purported benefits of race-mixing promoted by the likes of Alon Ziv are simply false. Another means of promoting eugenics would involve a return to stricter penal sanctions against crime. Society would benefit from punishing violent criminals and sexual degenerates and removing them from the gene pool before they can reproduce. This is consistent with Ps. 37:28-29, which teaches that the seed of the wicked will be cut off. These types of measures would be more effective and just than the sterilization of non-criminals that occurred in the United States and elsewhere in the early twentieth century.

There is also the inverse correlation between the health of children and the age of parents to consider. The modern trend of waiting to marry past age thirty is typically motivated by various factors stemming from a non-Christian worldview. Women are becoming increasingly influenced by feminism, which tells them that marriage and family life are a prison and that they ought to pursue careers that are sure to provide much more fulfillment than a family ever could. Young men are also kept in a perpetual state of adolescence in which video games aren’t merely an innocent pastime but rather a way of life in which fictional accomplishments replace actual achievement in the real world.

As Western civilization has abandoned her Christian roots and become increasingly secularized, many young men and women have delayed marriage and children later and later. Several studies also indicate that certain health risks increase when fathers and especially mothers have children past age forty. Christians should encourage young men and women to marry at a suitably young age and begin having a family early on in their marriage. This will decrease the chances of health problems in their children and as an added social benefit, will also decrease the likelihood of divorce. Christians must return to the directives that the Apostle Paul gives young men and young women in Titus 2, which impliy that marriage and family life should take place during youth.

Finally, while eugenics is often derided as simply a white supremacist ideology, eugenics properly understood and applied within the bounds of Christian morality is simply race-positive. There is no reason why Christians of any race could not or should not promote these principles among his own people. All races can improve by appropriating Christian principles of eugenics for their benefit. For example, blacks should acknowledge (and some have) that the breeding patterns within the black race have been thoroughly dysgenic for the past several generations. Black Christians should promote eugenic policies among their people to improve the quality of black stock for future generations. This means that the Talented Tenth ought to marry fellow blacks and have many children within Christian wedlock. Far too often, well-accomplished blacks marry someone of a different race (often white women) instead of contributing to their people’s future generations.

Likewise, blacks who are genuinely Christian should denounce the rampant criminality of their race and acknowledge that stricter penalties for criminality would improve the black gene pool in the long run. There is no reason why a Christian pursuit of healthy reproduction must lead to hostility between different racial or ethnic groups.
The whole world would greatly benefit from all nations improving their future stock by applying Christian principles to marriage and reproduction."

 

Ah_Tibor

Kingfisher
Woman
Orthodox
Again, marrying someone with good traits is not why the term "eugenics" was invented. We have a natural repulsion against things like incest and homosexuality-- and I think why the latter has gained so much traction in recent years is because they don't reproduce, or at least it's much harder.

My husband and I met at an Orthodox summer camp, where there are many intra-diocesan families that have been friends and intermarrying for several generations (I know of two offhand who had to prove they weren't related under canon law). I don't think their kids are superior stock. Yes, Nicholas and Alexandra were third cousins, and made for a better couple than royal first cousin marriages, probably. Generally people are more attracted to the person from the next town, not the one in front of them. That comes naturally. First cousins are like half-siblings.

But I also think people tend to self-segregate; you like who you like, basically. Someone who is similar enough to feel like home while different enough to be interesting.

Ashkenazi Jews have a bunch of weird genetic diseases because they intermarried for generations. Arranged marriages can be a mixed bag.
 
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Ah_Tibor

Kingfisher
Woman
Orthodox
Edited to add:
I'm even more concerned that the latest in evil eugenics may be
(WWS) world wide sterlization:

"Head of Pfizer Research: Covid Vaccine is Female Sterilization

The vaccine contains a spike protein (see image) called syncytin-1, vital for the formation of human placenta in women. If the vaccine works so that we form an immune response AGAINST the spike protein, we are also training the female body to attack syncytin-1, which could lead to infertility in women of an unspecified duration."


I posted in the vaccine thread about Depo-Provera, which has to be upped every three months and can cause blood clots as a side effect.

I've enjoyed Roosh's last few Brave New World-related articles, and it brought up something I missed years ago-- about dumping alcohol into the low-class embryos to make them stupid and docile so they won't revolt. The other night I was getting baby Motrin and noticed that dye-free version is a few more dollars than the one with dye. Why would not adding something make it cost more-- same size, same product-- unless maybe something like that is going on. Who knows.
 

Atlas Shrugged

Robin
Woman
I do think eugenics is bad. I’m wondering what the the exception there is for every rule. I’m talking more about temporary sterilization for being stupid not because of what you look like or your intelligence factor. It would be one thing if that woman kept all 8-9+ of her kids. Granted living on welfare in the hood with that many kids can’t be good for anyone. Also when talking with that family after their adoption that woman was pregnant again. I’m not against sterilization though if a couple has a gaggle of kids and decides they are done. If FAM and the rythym method are acceptable than that has to be too. It would have been nice to have more than one child. I didn’t even have the worst pregnancy in the world but I lost 12 pounds by vomiting throughout the day for 6 months of it. Kind of shocked I still have a great set of teeth after all that puking. I can’t imagine the women that go through something worse so I can’t say anything if someone doesn’t want anymore. Unfortunately for some people pregnancy is 9 months of what can seem like torture to them. But now I’m talking choice versus forced. It’s just one of those stories I’ll never forget. Reminds me I’ll ask that family if she had anymore. It’s been 5 years so who knows maybe she is up to number 15 being taken away. Just so damn sad!
 
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