European Paganism and their Modern Day LARPer's

infowarrior1

Hummingbird
Has anyone dealt with the Nietzsche argument that Christianity was a Jewish slavery placed onto European culture (Romans) which ultimately created a weak mentality and led to its' downfall and now our enslavement to them? I've tried to counter this with E Michael Jones arguments - that Talmudic Judaism is a religion more so than a race. Also I have re iterated that inheriting this type of mentality would make us just like them, and this is why Christians should seek a better path.

The crux of the problem as I see it, is that people want to "choose a God", a God that suits them, and their beliefs. Rather we must accept God for who he is. God isn't here to save the european race or heritage as difficult as that is for some to understand. God made the nations and they will be here until the end of time. We don't encourage race mixing, we know that it is being pushed in the culture by those who wish to subvert us, but a marriage between Christians of different ethnicity is fine, although with some added friction.

I can't make Christianity a white religion for this person, but it is intrinsically more respectful of ethnicity, history, family lineage than what we see today. I think what pagans in many cases ultimately want is to just make white their religion.
It is pointing to a real problem:

So its not without basis. However they misdiagnose the problem and the solution as a result as wel.
 
I recall a story from history, where as Celtic and Roman fighters were facing each other, and waiting for the order to attack, several pagan priestesses came forward. They were attractive young women, and topless, with full breasts. To the shock and horror of the Roman troops, the women went into a frenzied state, and with their own hands, ripped off their breasts! Roman commanders had to calm their men, who were so dismayed at the sight, that they began to wonder if they could actually win a battle against such crazed people. Rome of course, did go on to win.
European pagans had virgin priestesses, often described as the most beautiful.

Germanic pagan women were also known on at least some occasions to kill themselves and their children if they lost the battle.

But since the Romans were put once again to shame by this marvel, they most bitterly retaliated, killing many of them and chopping off their heads with just their swords. This troubled the women very much, and they lost all hope for their survival, and in a great frenzy, they took their sharpened weapons and killed their children before taking their own lives.

I've heard some people say that christianity became popular in Rome, because there was a movement away from the decadence of roman late stage society.

This was also why intellectuals like Tacitus praised the germanics. He wanted to show them as the morally superior and purer society vs the corrupt and decadent Rome.

I don't know if this is true, but I wouldn't discount it. Rome was at this point very multicultural with many jews and levantines, who we can probably assume to be more flashy and ostentatious.
 

Yrden

Pigeon

Enigma

Hummingbird
Gold Member
I've been interested in norse paganism myself, though never as an actual belief system. I see no problem in understanding your pagan past and the origins of myth and tradition.

I've changed my opinion on people like Varg though. I think his lifestyle is in many ways admirable, but he is also a very selfish person and at the heart of it, I sense he really doesn't care and wants to see the world burn, if only to prove him right.

Another phenomenon I've noticed on social media is the rise of women who are into paganism of the ethno variant, not the Wicca stuff. On the surface this might seem good, but I've seen so many of them post content about how paganism means they don't have to deal with betas and losers and how "real pagan men like real strong women". One legit posted a meme of "unrealistic beta demands" of women. It's en excuse for slutty behavior and alpha chasing. Biker gangs have disappeared, but the women who worship violent masculinity have not.
Women could own property, divorce their husbands, and hold leadership roles in Viking society, at a time when all of this was basically unheard of in the Christian and Muslim worlds.
 

infowarrior1

Hummingbird
Women could own property, divorce their husbands, and hold leadership roles in Viking society, at a time when all of this was basically unheard of in the Christian and Muslim worlds.
If that is absent in the Christian World. It may not have been as good as presented. The funerals where they run a train on a slave girl before sacrificing her in honor of the dead Chieftain according to Ibn Fadlan in 921 was one example:

Christendom had the strength to eventually assimilate Northern Europe into the Faith and spread the Greco-Roman Civilization. As the Astaru religion in contrast to Christianity was Fatalistic. In the long run it appears the non-egalitarian Christian societies won out.

Similarly to the less sexually egalitarian Romans ending up triumphant over the more egalitarian Iceni society:


Despite great losses in the short-term.
 

infowarrior1

Hummingbird
Eastern Orthodox Christianity managed to remain virile without having to go the "Muscular Christianity" route. Since they already have a healthy Asceticism that is highly physical that is deeply satisfying to Men.:

Challenges
The term most commonly cited by these men was "challenging." Orthodoxy is "active and not passive." "It's the only church where you are required to adapt to it, rather than it adapting to you." "The longer you are in it, the more you realize it demands of you."


The "sheer physicality of Orthodox worship" is part of the appeal. Regular days of fasting from meat and dairy, "standing for hours on end, performing prostrations, going without food and water [before communion]...When you get to the end you feel that you've faced down a challenge." "Orthodoxy appeals to a man's desire for self-mastery through discipline."


"In Orthodoxy, the theme of spiritual warfare is ubiquitous; saints, including female saints, are warriors. Warfare requires courage, fortitude, and heroism. We are called to be 'strugglers' against sin, to be 'athletes' as St. Paul says. And the prize is given to the victor. The fact that you must 'struggle' during worship by standing up throughout long services is itself a challenge men are willing to take up."
A recent convert summed up, "Orthodoxy is serious. It is difficult. It is demanding. It is about mercy, but it's also about overcoming oneself. I am challenged in a deep way, not to 'feel good about myself' but to become holy. It is rigorous, and in that rigor I find liberation. And you know, so does my wife."

Clear Disciplines
. Several mentioned that they really appreciated having clarity about the content of these challenges and what they were supposed to do. "Most guys feel a lot more comfortable when they know what's expected of them." "Orthodoxy presents a reasonable set of boundaries." "It's easier for guys to express themselves in worship if there are guidelines about how it's supposed to work—especially when those guidelines are so simple and down-to-earth that you can just set out and start doing something."

"The prayers the Church provides for us — morning prayers, evening prayers, prayers before and after meals, and so on — give men a way to engage in spirituality without feeling put on the spot, or worrying about looking stupid because they don't know what to say."


They appreciate learning clear-cut physical actions that are expected to form character and understanding. "People begin learning immediately through ritual and symbolism, for example, by making the sign of the cross. This regimen of discipline makes one mindful of one's relation to the Trinity, to the Church, and to everyone he meets."


A Goal.
Men also appreciate that this challenge has a goal: union with God. One said that in a previous church "I didn't feel I was getting anywhere in my spiritual life (or that there was anywhere to get to — I was already there, right?) But something, who knew what, was missing. Isn't there SOMETHING I should be doing, Lord?"



Orthodoxy preserves and transmits ancient Christian wisdom about how to progress toward this union, which is called "theosis." Every sacrament or spiritual exercise is designed to bring the person, body and soul, further into continual awareness of the presence of Christ within, and also within every other human being. As a cloth becomes saturated with dye by osmosis, we are saturated with God by theosis.


A catechumen wrote that he was finding icons helpful in resisting unwanted thoughts. "If you just close your eyes to some visual temptation, there are plenty of stored images to cause problems. But if you surround yourself with icons, you have a choice of whether to look at something tempting or something holy."


A priest writes, "Men need a challenge, a goal, perhaps an adventure — in primitive terms, a hunt. Western Christianity has lost the ascetic, that is, the athletic aspect of Christian life. This was the purpose of monasticism, which arose in the East largely as a men's movement. Women entered monastic life as well, and our ancient hymns still speak of women martyrs as showing 'manly courage.'"


"Orthodoxy emphasizes DOING. …. Guys are ACTIVITY oriented."

Yet there is something in Orthodoxy that offers "a deep masculine romance. Do you understand what I mean by that? Most romance in our age is pink, but this is a romance of swords and gallantry."

From a deacon: "Evangelical churches call men to be passive and nice (think 'Mr. Rogers'). Orthodox churches call men to be courageous and act (think'Braveheart').

Jesus Christ. What draws men to Orthodoxy is not simply that it's challenging or mysterious. What draws them is the Lord Jesus Christ. He is the center of everything the Church does or says.

In contrast to some other churches, "Orthodoxy offers a robust Jesus" (and even a robust Virgin Mary, for that matter, hailed in one hymn as "our Captain, Queen of War"). Several used the term "martial" or referred to Orthodoxy as the "Marine Corps" of Christianity. (The warfare is against self-destructive sin and the unseen spiritual powers, not other people, of course.)


One contrasted this "robust" quality with "the feminized pictures of Jesus I grew up with. I've never had a male friend who would not have expended serious effort to avoid meeting someone who looked like that." Though drawn to Jesus Christ as a teen, "I felt ashamed of this attraction, as if it were something a red-blooded American boy shouldn't take that seriously, almost akin to playing with dolls."


A priest writes: "Christ in Orthodoxy is a militant,Jesus takes Hell captive. Orthodox Jesus came to cast fire on the earth. (Males can relate to this.) In Holy Baptism we pray for the newly-enlisted warriors of Christ, male and female, that they may 'be kept ever warriors invincible.'"


After several years in Orthodoxy, one man found a service of Christmas carols in a Protestant church "shocking,even appalling." Compared to the Orthodox hymns of Christ's Nativity, "'the little Lord Jesus asleep on the hay' has almost nothing to do with the Eternal Logos entering inexorably, silently yet heroically, into the fabric of created reality."

There is also a great Gravitas in worship alongside all those traits. Icons that present Christ the Warrior Triumphant over Death. Pulling Adam and Eve out of their respective graves. Icons of Jesus Christ and the other saints dressed in body armor and holding swords which is apparent from the Military Cathedral recently built:

The Cross is Jesus pushing us out of the way and the bullet going into him thereby saving our lives or jumping on a dangerous grenade on our behalf.

But the best metaphor is Jesus allowing himself to be swallowed by the most terrible monster of all that is, Death. So that from within Death he might destroy Death by his Life. Swallowing up Death in Victory. Death is that horrible "Dragon" that is impervious to everything on the outside. But on the inside he is vulnerable.

I dare even to think. That the Roman and Eastern Orthodox Schism spared the latter from the Bridal Mysticism infection. Giving us a glimpse into pre-12th Century Christianity.
 
Last edited:

Enigma

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Christendom had the strength to eventually assimilate Northern Europe into the Faith and spread the Greco-Roman Civilization. As the Astaru religion in contrast to Christianity was Fatalistic. In the long run it appears the non-egalitarian Christian societies won out.
Right, and they didn't even convert under duress; they did so because their own rulers realized how flawed their culture was, with its inability to create and its lack of real hierarchy.

In fact, even the Vikings that "conquered" parts of England converted to Christianity and gave up their culture in favor of Anglo-Saxon culture.
 

infowarrior1

Hummingbird
Right, and they didn't even convert under duress; they did so because their own rulers realized how flawed their culture was, with its inability to create and its lack of real hierarchy.

In fact, even the Vikings that "conquered" parts of England converted to Christianity and gave up their culture in favor of Anglo-Saxon culture.
Agreed.
 

bucky

Pelican
European pagans had virgin priestesses, often described as the most beautiful.

Germanic pagan women were also known on at least some occasions to kill themselves and their children if they lost the battle.




I've heard some people say that christianity became popular in Rome, because there was a movement away from the decadence of roman late stage society.

This was also why intellectuals like Tacitus praised the germanics. He wanted to show them as the morally superior and purer society vs the corrupt and decadent Rome.

I don't know if this is true, but I wouldn't discount it. Rome was at this point very multicultural with many jews and levantines, who we can probably assume to be more flashy and ostentatious.
I've long believed that the extreme sexual decadence of imperial Rome was a big reason Christianity spread like wildfire even when it was severely persecuted. When Pompeii was excavated there were pornographic murals and statues everywhere, so we can assume this was common throughout the empire. In his Confessions, St. Augustine complains of how rapists in his day would justify their behavior with the excuse that they were just following the example of their Greco-Roman gods. Imagine trying to raise children in an environment like that. Often when I read the New Testament I think of how beautiful and comforting Christ's words must have seemed to decent people at the time who would have never heard anything similar, never imagined the idea of a just God who loved them and cared deeply about them. It's no wonder people were willing to die for the gospel.
 

infowarrior1

Hummingbird
I've long believed that the extreme sexual decadence of imperial Rome was a big reason Christianity spread like wildfire even when it was severely persecuted. When Pompeii was excavated there were pornographic murals and statues everywhere, so we can assume this was common throughout the empire. In his Confessions, St. Augustine complains of how rapists in his day would justify their behavior with the excuse that they were just following the example of their Greco-Roman gods. Imagine trying to raise children in an environment like that. Often when I read the New Testament I think of how beautiful and comforting Christ's words must have seemed to decent people at the time who would have never heard anything similar, never imagined the idea of a just God who loved them and cared deeply about them. It's no wonder people were willing to die for the gospel.
In the past such decadence was the preserve of a much smaller upper class whilst much more of the population is spared such decadence. But we are not so lucky. Technology and wealth has enabled corrupted of a much larger section of society than before.
 

infowarrior1

Hummingbird
It's amazing how often the Old Testament warns about choosing women over God. Samson, Solomon, occasionally the whole of Israel. Don't put women on a pedestal - a game lesson that we all would have learned at a lower cost if we'd just read the Bible.
I should have linked this in regards to food shortages:

The reason God ordered such a thing and disallowed captives is because Israel couldn't handle any captives. Not enough resources to go around.

I do however regard the man as an apostate and a false believer. His articles on women is absolutely feminist and involve a lot of sophistry in regards to the text of Scripture. So take the rest of the articles with a grain of salt. Only those articles I linked are solid.
 

bucky

Pelican
In the past such decadence was the preserve of a much smaller upper class whilst much more of the population is spared such decadence. But we are not so lucky. Technology and wealth has enabled corrupted of a much larger section of society than before.
I think this was often true, maybe even usually, but if you look at the ruins of Pompeii, things like statues of Pan copulating with a goat or murals of prostitutes servicing their customers were out in the open and everywhere, possibly even worse than the modern west. I never got the sense that it was only among the elites. I also got the sense from reading Augustine that this was still a huge problem in his day, hundreds of years later, when a lot of the empire had converted to Christianity but paganism was still around and still had influence.
 

infowarrior1

Hummingbird
I think this was often true, maybe even usually, but if you look at the ruins of Pompeii, things like statues of Pan copulating with a goat or murals of prostitutes servicing their customers were out in the open and everywhere, possibly even worse than the modern west. I never got the sense that it was only among the elites. I also got the sense from reading Augustine that this was still a huge problem in his day, hundreds of years later, when a lot of the empire had converted to Christianity but paganism was still around and still had influence.
Nonetheless I doubt that Augustine really paid attention to the morality of the rural peoples or the poor majority per se since their actions in this department isn't so conspicious and his circles wouldn't often include close relationships with enough of them to provide a good sampling. Unless he is specifically talking about them in what you read.

If so could you link me the resource for that. Specifically the book and pages where this kind of thing is mentioned? I like reading although I would prefer to get back to you sooner than later when I may end up forgetting to respond to you in regard to this topic and we have long moved on.
 

bucky

Pelican
Nonetheless I doubt that Augustine really paid attention to the morality of the rural peoples or the poor majority per se since their actions in this department isn't so conspicious. Unless he is specifically talking about them in what you read.

If so could you link me the resource for that. Specifically the book and pages where this kind of thing is mentioned? I like reading although I would prefer to get back to you sooner than later when I may end up forgetting to respond to you in regard to this topic and we have long moved on.
A quick google search on "augustine confessions rape gods" didn't come up with the specific passage I was thinking of (I read it in the original Latin). I'm at work now, but I'll try to look it up later today.
 

Timothy Crow

Sparrow
t's amazing how often the Old Testament warns about choosing women over God. Samson, Solomon, occasionally the whole of Israel. Don't put women on a pedestal - a game lesson that we all would have learned at a lower cost if we'd just read the Bible.
LOL, reminds me of one of the most smart ass remarks in the Bible. Way back in Genesis after Adam and Eve had eaten of the forbidden fruit God comes down and jumps on Adam. "What have you done, What is the meaning of this, did I not tell you to leave that fruit alone?" Adam, in reply says, "Well you see, this Woman which You gave me..."
 

infowarrior1

Hummingbird
LOL, reminds me of one of the most smart ass remarks in the Bible. Way back in Genesis after Adam and Eve had eaten of the forbidden fruit God comes down and jumps on Adam. "What have you done, What is the meaning of this, did I not tell you to leave that fruit alone?" Adam, in reply says, "Well you see, this Woman which You gave me..."
Adam was the one that ultimately doomed the Human race. What a Simp.
 

infowarrior1

Hummingbird
The Mormon view is that the fall of Adam and Eve was planned from the start (God knew, but not Adam & Eve), so that through the fall, humanity would be brought into the world, and tested to see if they would serve God.
Even so. God's Omniscience is based on the actions of man. Prophecy depends as much on the free will decisions of man as the actions of God.
 

ilostabet

Pelican
Discussing 'Paganism' is like discussing plants. The variety is endless to the point that what you say will not apply to everything. Some plants are good for somethings and bad for others. Some you can eat the fruit but not the leaves. Some you better leave it alone altogether or kill it - and then compost of course. Same with paganism. Which is the position the Church took, wherever it went.

I have to say though that the puritan idea that before Christ came everyone in the world was worshipping demons is hilarious, but ultimately sad, because it's one of the reasons why so many pagans reject Christianity, when they are really only rejecting puritanism.
 

infowarrior1

Hummingbird
Discussing 'Paganism' is like discussing plants. The variety is endless to the point that what you say will not apply to everything. Some plants are good for somethings and bad for others. Some you can eat the fruit but not the leaves. Some you better leave it alone altogether or kill it - and then compost of course. Same with paganism. Which is the position the Church took, wherever it went.

I have to say though that the puritan idea that before Christ came everyone in the world was worshipping demons is hilarious, but ultimately sad, because it's one of the reasons why so many pagans reject Christianity, when they are really only rejecting puritanism.
Sure. The danger is when they are used to keep people away from Jesus Christ. As I have shown in the OP and subsequent comments on this phenomenon.
 
Top