European Paganism and their Modern Day LARPer's

infowarrior1

Peacock
Protestant
Here in germany there are tons of self-identified pagans, especially in right-wing circles. I think this is mostly a consequence of anti-christian policies of the DDR. People in eastern germany have no connection to religion anymore.

My strong impression is that in all cases it is not much more then larping. Empty imitation of rituals. And how could it be anything else? There is no continued tradition, no one grows up as a pagan. We don't know what these beliefs even meant to people 1500 years ago. Also all past religions were deeply connected to the world people were living in. Crazy to think it makes you a pagan to live a modern life with 5-9 job and smartphone because you now make a big bonfire from time to time.

I think in that case they are attempting to reconstruct paganism and therefore create new traditions.
 

infowarrior1

Peacock
Protestant
Neo paganism to me seems to just be New Age nonsense but directed towards ancient pagan deities as part of the spiritual buffet rather than anything resembling the actual paganism of history.

It's all based on this idea that you can just choose the gods and beliefs that suit you. I doubt anyone truly believes in Thor or Odin (or at least not in the same way the ancients did) but rather that these entities are latched onto as a result of making an idol of oneself. This god appeals to me, therefore I shall decree it worthy of my worship kinda thing...

I wasn't into paganism when I got lost in New Age stuff, but I was certainly guilty of this self idolisation that led to me looking for beliefs that I liked, as though I was the arbitrator of truth.

Its not just a spiritual buffet. But it is restricted based on your own Ethnicities. To worship only the Gods that one's own blood worships and sticking to that. It is very connected to the notion of racial purity.
 

Lawrence87

Kingfisher
Orthodox
Its not just a spiritual buffet. But it is restricted based on your own Ethnicities. To worship only the Gods that one's own blood worships and sticking to that. It is very connected to the notion of racial purity.

Yeah this is true, but it's also my experience that many people who call themselves pagan also have Buddha statues, dream catchers, read the Bhagavad Gita and so forth. I haven't had much experience of the kinds of pagans you mention
 

JoeChill

Kingfisher
Protestant
Gold Member
Christians celebrating Halloween, Christmas, Easter, and a lot of major holidays have Pagan roots. Christmas trees, pumpkins, scary costumes, Valentines Day Cards, etc. have Paganism in them. Also Jesus was not born in the winter.
With all due respect, I'm not certain that's entirely true. Halloween arose from All Saints Day (which didn't have any pagan origins). Much of the "Halloween is pagan" stuff was propaganda made up by anti-Irish types and Christian Fundamentalists.



More detail in this video
 
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Dr Mantis Toboggan

Pelican
Catholic
Gold Member
Yes, now I seem to remember that when I looked into it, the supposed similarities between Jesus and Osiris seemed pretty exaggerated. If I recall correctly, Osiris did have something like disciples in the myths about him, but not necessarily twelve of them. There were other things like that, that were quite a stretch.

Yeah and I mean "deity (whether real or fake) having disciples/followers" isn't exactly a stretch to begin with.

Yeah this is true, but it's also my experience that many people who call themselves pagan also have Buddha statues, dream catchers, read the Bhagavad Gita and so forth. I haven't had much experience of the kinds of pagans you mention

I think you have the left wing pagan, "spiritual but not religious" types who are often into witchcraft etc, and then the right wing racial pagan types who often identify with Norse or pre-Christian Germanic gods and the like. In the case of the latter I don't think they actually believe those gods exist per se but their "worship" of them is really a form of narcissistic racial self-worship.
 

JoeChill

Kingfisher
Protestant
Gold Member
In Varg Vikernes' review of The Wicker Man, he goes so far as to claim that the nun vocation was invented by enemies of Europeans to sterilize European women. It's funny that he has such strong words against the nun vocation, but doesn't consider the pagan practice of vestal virgins (very similar to nuns). Did enemies of the European people invent the idea of "vestal virgins" to sterilize White women? He lets his hatred of Christianity blind him to reality. I also think he's wrong to suggest that the concept of nuns came from May Queens, I really think that it probably arose from the vestal virgin idea.
 

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02Hero

 
Banned
Other Christian
Its not just a spiritual buffet. But it is restricted based on your own Ethnicities. To worship only the Gods that one's own blood worships and sticking to that. It is very connected to the notion of racial purity.
Do you think this is wrong?

Looking at immigration issues arising, especially when done so in large amounts it is not a weird thing to cultivate.

To me it seems it is a Jewish idea that a random group of people can just go anywhere and *should* be accepted by the host country. Or because they are of God.

Reality is different from my experience. In my experience in other countries close-knit, safe communities tend to also be more racist and less accepting of foreigners. Especially if they are in groups.
 

KulturedKaveman

Pigeon
Orthodox
We don't know what these beliefs even meant to people 1500 years ago. Also all past religions were deeply connected to the world people were living in. Crazy to think it makes you a pagan to live a modern life with 5-9 job and smartphone because you now make a big bonfire from time to time.
Not just that we only know the faith practices of the kings and warriors. Nobody is really sure how the germanic tribesman farmer practiced his religion.
 

Wutang

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Neo paganism to me seems to just be New Age nonsense but directed towards ancient pagan deities as part of the spiritual buffet rather than anything resembling the actual paganism of history.

It's all based on this idea that you can just choose the gods and beliefs that suit you. I doubt anyone truly believes in Thor or Odin (or at least not in the same way the ancients did) but rather that these entities are latched onto as a result of making an idol of oneself. This god appeals to me, therefore I shall decree it worthy of my worship kinda thing...

I wasn't into paganism when I got lost in New Age stuff, but I was certainly guilty of this self idolisation that led to me looking for beliefs that I liked, as though I was the arbitrator of truth.

This is pretty much the case. It seems like the majority of pagan LARPers explicitly state that they only see the pagan gods as archetypes or as the personification of ideals they admire. Instead of God creating men it's men creating gods or "Making an idol of oneself" as you stated. It's the sort of self-worship men have always wanted to engage in until the arrival of Christianity. In Christianity humans have value because they are created in the image of God while in both paganism and secular humanism this is reversed - any sort of thing that is good is good only because humans think it's good. There was an ancient Greek philosopher who said "Man is the measure of all things" - this is the credo that both pagans and modern secular man lives by.
 

infowarrior1

Peacock
Protestant
Do you think this is wrong?

Looking at immigration issues arising, especially when done so in large amounts it is not a weird thing to cultivate.

To me it seems it is a Jewish idea that a random group of people can just go anywhere and *should* be accepted by the host country. Or because they are of God.

Reality is different from my experience. In my experience in other countries close-knit, safe communities tend to also be more racist and less accepting of foreigners. Especially if they are in groups.

I don't think preserving natural integrity and being selective about immigration has to involve idolatry.

That is a self-destructive path to take regardless of good intentions.
 

JoeChill

Kingfisher
Protestant
Gold Member
People really need to carefully think before lionizing the pagan Roman Empire. Lest we forget, the early Christians were persecuted by Rome because they refused to worship the emperor as God. Most of the pagan emperors knew that it was nonsense to worship a mere man, even an emperor, as God. The real reason for the pagan emperors' anger towards the Christians was their fear that refusal to worship the emperor would undermine the total authority of the state. But why should the head of state be a law unto himself? Why exalt tyranny? We are, once again, seeing the folly of unrestrained state power with the covid-19 nonsense.

The Roman Empire's population began to stagnate in the 3rd century, and the economy stalled with it. De-urbanization and increased taxes followed. Increasing numbers of people left the cities and it wasn't very lucrative for the remaining magistrates to take up the burden of civic responsibility.

Here's where Christian deacons, priests, and bishops became helpful. Christians developed networks of care for their sick, their widows, and their orphans. Clergymen began to assume the places vacated by the old senatorial families. While it was the Emperor Diocletian who first called sections of the empire "dioceses," it wasn't long before bishops assumed control of these areas for practical reasons - for example, to see that grain shipments arrived to feed the poor. When Augustine travelled to Milan, then the hub of government in Italy, the man in charge of this area was the bishop Ambrose. He was responsible for preserving law and order and the common good.
 

JoeChill

Kingfisher
Protestant
Gold Member
The pagan Roman Empire was also quite indulgent of female infanticide. At Oxyrhynchus in Egypt, a letter was written during the year 1 B.C. from a pagan businessman named Hilarion to his pregnant wife. He wrote: "If you are delivered of a child [before I come home], if it is a boy, keep it; if a girl, discard it." Why was he so harsh? Girls were seen as burdens. They couldn't get jobs and contribute to the family's wealth. Indeed, they would require dowries once they became of marriageable age. For this reason, Roman playwrights often wrote of daughters as "odious daughters."

From the census records of ancient Delphi, we can determine that out of 600 families, only 6 raised more than 1 daughter. Many families had multiple sons, but only approximately 1% raised multiple daughters.
 

JoeChill

Kingfisher
Protestant
Gold Member
Modern neo-pagans tend to have a "persecution complex" resulting from a skewed view of history. They believe that their pagan ancestors were mercilessly hunted down and killed by Christians. The truth, of course, doesn't support this narrative. Some of the best evidence refuting the pagans' argument that Christianity spread via the sword can be gleaned by examining the reign of Emperor Constantine. When Constantine assumed the throne in 312, approximately 9 million Christians lived in the empire and made up roughly 15% of the empire's population. When Constantine died in 337, more than 1/3 of the empire became Christian. Yet, there wasn't a major genocide of pagans during this period of time. For more information on the period of relative tolerance and tranquility between Christians and pagans during Constantine's reign, please review the studies by H.A. Drake.

Constantine subsidized the Christian churches while continuing state funding for pagan temples. As for claims that Constantine encouraged Christian mobs to destroy pagan temples, those claims originated with the early Christian historian Eusebius and are not taken seriously by most modern historians. In addition to funding the pagan temples, Constantine appointed pagans to many exalted positions of great power in the empire, including the positions of consul and prefect. 56% of the men appointed by Constantine were Christian, 18% were explicitly pagan, and the rest did not have explicitly defined affiliations (but were probably pagan).

Paganism wasn't rapidly extinguished through overwhelming violence. It died a slow, lingering death. The pagan academy at Athens did not close until 529 and "even in most Christian Eddessa [...] organized communities of pagans were still sacrificing to Zeus-Hadad in the last quarter of the sixth century." When Muslim forces threatened Carrhea (Harran) in 639, pagans outnumbered Christians in that city, all of the delegates sent to treat with the Muslims were pagans.

Much more can be read about this matter in chapter 3 of "Bearing False Witness: Debunking Centuries of Anti-Catholic History" by the agnostic scholar, Rodney Stark.
 

infowarrior1

Peacock
Protestant
The pagan Roman Empire was also quite indulgent of female infanticide. At Oxyrhynchus in Egypt, a letter was written during the year 1 B.C. from a pagan businessman named Hilarion to his pregnant wife. He wrote: "If you are delivered of a child [before I come home], if it is a boy, keep it; if a girl, discard it." Why was he so harsh? Girls were seen as burdens. They couldn't get jobs and contribute to the family's wealth. Indeed, they would require dowries once they became of marriageable age. For this reason, Roman playwrights often wrote of daughters as "odious daughters."

From the census records of ancient Delphi, we can determine that out of 600 families, only 6 raised more than 1 daughter. Many families had multiple sons, but only approximately 1% raised multiple daughters.

Christianity by forbading murder of children in and outside the womb and by adopting abandoned infants. Definitely saved many of those girls lives.

But since there will always be non-Christians in any given society. Dowries being done away is a good option too. And replacing it with a Bride Price is a good option to incentivize the sparing of their lives at least as non-Christians are concerned.

But first and foremost is the importance of the Gospel in doing so. And in term granting them dignity as human beings.

Many are interesting theories on Government. And very excellent Architecture and other forms of Aesthetics they have. Which ought to be copied or at least used as examples of. But otherwise it is very true that those "Civilizations" are very barbaric in their own ways.
 

El Draque

 
Banned
Orthodox
In Varg Vikernes' review of The Wicker Man, he goes so far as to claim that the nun vocation was invented by enemies of Europeans to sterilize European women. It's funny that he has such strong words against the nun vocation, but doesn't consider the pagan practice of vestal virgins (very similar to nuns). Did enemies of the European people invent the idea of "vestal virgins" to sterilize White women? He lets his hatred of Christianity blind him to reality. I also think he's wrong to suggest that the concept of nuns came from May Queens, I really think that it probably arose from the vestal virgin idea.

I learnt recently that Varg has been promoting mask wearing, social distancing and bought right into the MSM Covid line.

Genuinely hilarious.
 

paternos

Woodpecker
Catholic
I think paganism is a pushed narrative.

At least by my knowing there is no unified pagan church, declaring, what to read, rituals, what to worship, how to worship.
The self-declared pagans I have met combine a self-created image of a strong viking (so they work out in the gym to look like a cartoon viking with big muscles) and bonfires and norse gods. I would say it's more like a group of friends, making fire, and sharing a bracelet. Like kids can create for their friends. A name for the group, a symbol. The desire is clear, companionship, brotherhood, masculinity, but to me, but it's just as larpy as new-age. The buddha statues we see scattered at homes.

Christianity taught me submission, trying to follow gods will instead of mine.

From what I see of paganism it's an ego-trip to be the leader of the new rising of the European volk. I see the desire to escape perverted secularism, but it's idolatry, they are shaping the gods in their own will.
 

El Draque

 
Banned
Orthodox
I think paganism is a pushed narrative.

At least by my knowing there is no unified pagan church, declaring, what to read, rituals, what to worship, how to worship.
The self-declared pagans I have met combine a self-created image of a strong viking (so they work out in the gym to look like a cartoon viking with big muscles) and bonfires and norse gods. I would say it's more like a group of friends, making fire, and sharing a bracelet. Like kids can create for their friends. A name for the group, a symbol. The desire is clear, companionship, brotherhood, masculinity, but to me, but it's just as larpy as new-age. The buddha statues we see scattered at homes.

Christianity taught me submission, trying to follow gods will instead of mine.

From what I see of paganism it's an ego-trip to be the leader of the new rising of the European volk. I see the desire to escape perverted secularism, but it's idolatry, they are shaping the gods in their own will.

Brilliantly put, couldn't agree more.

Modern Pagans are literally making it up as they go along, and ultimately LARPing up a faith, which is based almost wholly on a modern political consciousness, rather than any deep understanding with the Gods their, in most case 50 x generations ancestors once worshipped.

Of course they will talk about 'their ancestors' all the time, in lieu of any kind of formalised and understandable spiritual doctrine, neatly skipping over the 1500 years of ancestors that were Christian.

Ultimately its just like a Right-Wing "new age" (we all know the roots of that) movement, that is the yin to the Hippies Left Wing yang.

If you really get into the weeds of it, you'll see that the gods they claim to keep, are the same that are venerated by a whole raft of Occultists, such as Crowley - himself a purported 'druid'. If nothing else, lest we forget that the most powerful God of the Germanic-Norse is One-Eyed.

It's a bunch of useful idiots for the most part, many of whom have decent enough intentions, but are being blinded and drawn away from Christianity, in the exact same manner that their Boomer relatives were enticed away with LSD, incense and Hinduisim in the 60s. There's literally barely a fag-paper between the two, beyond politics. They hold (often lauditory) ecological views, are interested in exoticism, can be hedonistic, and indiviualistly minded.

It is, ultimately, just another front for the Illumaniti war on Christianity, that began in earnest in 1962. The same trick, played on a different generation.
 
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