Farming Thread

john_Jea

Sparrow
All I know is that fertilizing and spraying my vineyard with all modern chemicals gives me 5 times more yield.

I tried a very conservative approach in the last 3 years and it clearly failed.
I could potentially have done better, if I had introduced chicken tractors. That could have fertilized the soil enough to get back to respectable yields.
But there is no escaping powdery mildew without chemicals.
Is it a commercial size vineyard?

Chemical fertilizer will always give a short term benefit of increased growth at the expense of long term soil health. I'm not to familiar with how to grow crops where the soil is kept exposed in between plants in a regenerative way. I've been more focused on forage. Have you tried fertilizing with compost/manure?
 

NickK

Kingfisher
Orthodox
Is it a commercial size vineyard?

Chemical fertilizer will always give a short term benefit of increased growth at the expense of long term soil health. I'm not to familiar with how to grow crops where the soil is kept exposed in between plants in a regenerative way. I've been more focused on forage. Have you tried fertilizing with compost/manure?
It's a 2.5 acres family vineyard. Small by American standards, but it can feed a large family here.

I don't think constantly bringing manure from outside is sustainable. It's expensive and time consuming.
It's much better to have the animals already living in your farm have your soil fertilized without any effort.

But when I planted the vineyard, I had no idea about these things.

Now I plan to build 10 chicken tractors (25 chickens each) and move them daily between the vine rows.
Their manure will be enough to fully fertilize my vines without any chemicals. And get rid of weeds once and for all.

But I still can't figure out how to escape mildew without spraying.
 

john_Jea

Sparrow
It's a 2.5 acres family vineyard. Small by American standards, but it can feed a large family here.

I don't think constantly bringing manure from outside is sustainable. It's expensive and time consuming.
It's much better to have the animals already living in your farm have your soil fertilized without any effort.

But when I planted the vineyard, I had no idea about these things.

Now I plan to build 10 chicken tractors (25 chickens each) and move them daily between the vine rows.
Their manure will be enough to fully fertilize my vines without any chemicals. And get rid of weeds once and for all.

But I still can't figure out how to escape mildew without spraying.
I'm not sure about the mildew. Over here it mainly sets on one type of grass which makes it unappetizing to livestock since it messes up there gut acid levels. I have only heard of workarounds but no solutions.

The chicken tractors idea I like, sounds like a pretty big operation. Will you be supplementing with grain?
 

NoMoreTO

Ostrich
Regenerative farming has its place, and I admire people who are actually trying to become fully sustainable on a given farm but agree with above comment that while fertilizer is achievable, pesticides are a different ball game, and absolutely necessary especially with high investment crops. I like the idea of bringing the micro nutrients and micro organisms back into the ground, but it's a super long term process. The elites do in my opinion have some sort of agenda, the Irony is the Rockefeller elite system of pesticides and Petro fertilizer, large farms being replaced by their new solution. So in some respects they are trying to fix the problems created by their own solutions. Regenerative farming like rotational grazing is nice, but many of these nice ideas can turn ugly pretty quickly when mandates come into effect.
 

NickK

Kingfisher
Orthodox
I'm not sure about the mildew. Over here it mainly sets on one type of grass which makes it unappetizing to livestock since it messes up there gut acid levels. I have only heard of workarounds but no solutions.

The chicken tractors idea I like, sounds like a pretty big operation. Will you be supplementing with grain?
Oh yes, they can't be sustained with bugs and weeds only, especially on winter months they will need grain. Some say the analogy is 30 grain 70 foraging, butI've read the ratio can be different depending where you are.

The chick tractors are cheap and relatively easy to make, the investment is not big. Even if I sell no eggs, the money I save by not having to buy fertilizer makes them worth the effort.
Regenerative farming has its place, and I admire people who are actually trying to become fully sustainable on a given farm but agree with above comment that while fertilizer is achievable, pesticides are a different ball game, and absolutely necessary especially with high investment crops. I like the idea of bringing the micro nutrients and micro organisms back into the ground, but it's a super long term process. The elites do in my opinion have some sort of agenda, the Irony is the Rockefeller elite system of pesticides and Petro fertilizer, large farms being replaced by their new solution. So in some respects they are trying to fix the problems created by their own solutions. Regenerative farming like rotational grazing is nice, but many of these nice ideas can turn ugly pretty quickly when mandates come into effect.
All the elderly farmers here say that in the olden days there weren't nearly as many pests as now. Powdery mildew and such things were unheard of or very limited back then. Chemicals have made pests very strong.
 
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john_Jea

Sparrow
Oh yes, they can't be sustained with bugs and weeds only, especially on winter months they will need grain. Some say the analogy is 30 grain 70 foraging, butI've read the ratio can be different depending where you are.

The chick tractors are cheap and relatively easy to make, the investment is not big. Even if I sell no eggs, the money I save by not having to buy fertilizer makes them worth the effort.
Well chickens are like pigs in that you can feed them whatever and they'll eat it, and if they don't it will just compost on the ground so its never a loss. Are you planning on buying grain or growing it yourself?

Regenerative farming has its place, and I admire people who are actually trying to become fully sustainable on a given farm but agree with above comment that while fertilizer is achievable, pesticides are a different ball game, and absolutely necessary especially with high investment crops. I like the idea of bringing the micro nutrients and micro organisms back into the ground, but it's a super long term process. The elites do in my opinion have some sort of agenda, the Irony is the Rockefeller elite system of pesticides and Petro fertilizer, large farms being replaced by their new solution. So in some respects they are trying to fix the problems created by their own solutions. Regenerative farming like rotational grazing is nice, but many of these nice ideas can turn ugly pretty quickly when mandates come into effect.
Mandates? Are you expecting Industrial agricultural practices to be outlawed or are you speaking hypothetically? The elites abandoning industrial agriculture and turning to to regenerative farming might make sense if we see a sharp population decline, unless it was used to blow up the price of food and yet that could place power and money in to the hands of farmers. A regenerative farming economy doesn't seem to fit into big agro.
All the elderly farmers here say that in the olden days there weren't nearly as many pests as now. Powdery mildew and such things were unheard of or very limited back then. Chemicals have made pests very strong.
I also suspect the selective breeding of plants, every increase in certain qualities results in a decrease in others including resistance to pests. One could probably breed a pest resistant breed at the cost of quality/size, sort of how most of plants are in the wild.
 

NickK

Kingfisher
Orthodox
Well chickens are like pigs in that you can feed them whatever and they'll eat it, and if they don't it will just compost on the ground so its never a loss. Are you planning on buying grain or growing it yourself?


Mandates? Are you expecting Industrial agricultural practices to be outlawed or are you speaking hypothetically? The elites abandoning industrial agriculture and turning to to regenerative farming might make sense if we see a sharp population decline, unless it was used to blow up the price of food and yet that could place power and money in to the hands of farmers. A regenerative farming economy doesn't seem to fit into big agro.

I also suspect the selective breeding of plants, every increase in certain qualities results in a decrease in others including resistance to pests. One could probably breed a pest resistant breed at the cost of quality/size, sort of how most of plants are in the wild.
I initially plan to initially buy the grain I need, and after a year or two try to allocate some space to grow my own.

As for mandates, many are already in place where I live. The climate change spell is in full effect.
They banned farmers to drill water wells, because "the phreatic zone is decreasing" (the underground water deposits). At the same time oceans are rising. Funny how that works huh?

There is also massive central planning in EU farming. There are regulations mandating the "correct" shape of a cucumber. If you don't comply you don't get subsidies.

Their goal is to tranform farmers from conservative free thinkers to leftist government slaves, relying on the system for water, fertilizer, seeds, rented land, leased machinery.
 

kel

Ostrich
But there is no escaping powdery mildew without chemicals.
Mildew on what, and what do you spray to get rid of it? Hydrogen peroxide is (to me, speaking generally, not in terms of its suitability for whatever your case is necessarily) kind of the ideal chemical treatment when it's an option because it disinfects and then breaks down into water and (mono-)oxygen.
 

NoMoreTO

Ostrich
Well chickens are like pigs in that you can feed them whatever and they'll eat it, and if they don't it will just compost on the ground so its never a loss. Are you planning on buying grain or growing it yourself?


Mandates? Are you expecting Industrial agricultural practices to be outlawed or are you speaking hypothetically? The elites abandoning industrial agriculture and turning to to regenerative farming might make sense if we see a sharp population decline, unless it was used to blow up the price of food and yet that could place power and money in to the hands of farmers. A regenerative farming economy doesn't seem to fit into big agro.

I also suspect the selective breeding of plants, every increase in certain qualities results in a decrease in others including resistance to pests. One could probably breed a pest resistant breed at the cost of quality/size, sort of how most of plants are in the wild.
Well I haven't seen anything like a mandate for sustainable ag but the applications I make for government subsidies In Canada are related to rotational grazing, delayed haying so the birds can nest (increased grasslands). Some of them are actually pretty practical and intelligent, but then of course climate change over arches all things. I wonder why they can't support ag in a normal way, something like a new farmer fund, but instead it all has this green lens. I do think, that there will be a growing war on industrial agriculture in favour of beyond meat, lab grown substitutes, vertical farming etc on the way. What we see from the elites Is that they usually take left causes like the treatment of animals in these large Farms and co opt it. They will need to strike a serious blow to corporate agriculture in order to really move their fake meat front and center on the menu. There is also a push through I believe agenda 2030 about how cow farts warm up the atmosphere and cause climate change. It's hard not to laugh at this stuff but id keep an eye out. I follow ice age farmer for war on food, there is a quiet thread on here under his name
 
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NickK

Kingfisher
Orthodox
Well I haven't seen anything like a mandate for sustainable ag but the applications I make for government subsidies In Canada are related to rotational grazing, delayed haying so the birds can nest (increased grasslands). Some of them are actually pretty practical and intelligent, but then of course climate change over arches all things. I wonder why they can't support ag in a normal way, something like a new farmer fund, but instead it all has this green lens. I do think, that there will be a growing war on industrial agriculture in favour of beyond meat, lab grown substitutes, vertical farming etc on the way. What we see from the elites Is that they usually take left causes like the treatment of animals in these large Farms and co opt it. They will need to strike a serious blow to corporate agriculture in order to really move their fake meat front and center on the menu. There is also a push through I believe agenda 2030 about how cow farts warm up the atmosphere and cause climate change. It's hard not to laugh at this stuff but id keep an eye out. I follow ice age farmer for war on food, there is a quiet thread on here under his name
I have some questions regarding pasture land, as I plan to rent 6 acres of fertile land next to my vineyard and turn it into pasture for cows.
The land is fertile and irrigated, weather conditions are very favourable for grass (4 cuts per year).

How may free range cows would you say can be supported?
Do you till and sow every year or do you seed perennials every x years and what types?
Is a DIY mobile winter shed viable or will I need a permanent structure? (winters aren't very harsh here)
Can I use electric fenses only and skip the more expensive permanent fenses?
 

Coja Petrus Uscan

Crow
Orthodox Inquirer
Gold Member
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NoMoreTO

Ostrich
I have some questions regarding pasture land, as I plan to rent 6 acres of fertile land next to my vineyard and turn it into pasture for cows.
The land is fertile and irrigated, weather conditions are very favourable for grass (4 cuts per year).

How may free range cows would you say can be supported?
Do you till and sow every year or do you seed perennials every x years and what types?
Is a DIY mobile winter shed viable or will I need a permanent structure? (winters aren't very harsh here)
Can I use electric fenses only and skip the more expensive permanent fenses?
Rule of thumb for cows as I've heard is 1 per acre, but you might be able to get a few more If it's irrigated and the land is particularly fertile. Alot of this comes down to pasture health and if you are able to move the cattle around and let parts of it rest (rotational grazing). With 6 acres you might be able to have two or perhaps 3 little paddocks (fields). But you could just leave it open to start and see how it goes. Pasture is basically a hay field which is usually composed of grass and legumes (alfalfa). You can plant in the fall or the spring depending on your climate and when you are able to get it onto the land. It might be advisable to let the field really establish and let the roots strengthen before putting the cattle on. Alternatively you could start with a few and then add a couple more as you go. On the fencing requirement I'm a little less certain. Im pretty sure electric can be used, but if power goes out you wouldn't have much keeping them in there. I'd get to know a few local guys who do it and you can hear their approaches which are probably all a little unique, but the same in many ways
 

NoMoreTO

Ostrich
Also once you have your hay field/pasture planted it could last 5-20 years. If you have alot of cattle then they will stomp on it and wreck it, but you can keep overseeding it and fixing it up as you go. Also weather is always a factor , but your irrigation should save you if there's a little drought
 

Laner

Hummingbird
Gold Member

Is it really any wonder that these types of evil humans starved out farmers during all their numerous reigns.

But last hay cut of the year here in Canada's west coast. The cranberries are starting now and our field should be flooded next week! Its going to be an amazing year, this summer was amazing - with the exception of berries who had issues with an early heat wave.
 
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