Farming Thread

kel

Pelican
On the subject of budgeting, can I ask how much you're spending on some of this stuff? I mean, the whole land acquisition and stuff is interesting, but even just deciding fencing and stuff, if some kind of machinery is a wise investment, etc.
 

NoMoreTO

Ostrich
The biggest expense will be a post pounder, which will cost between 1 - 4K depending on if I go used, gently used, or new. We have a couple tractors in the family I am leveraging for the install. Right now I am trying to determine exactly what type of fence I want, and from there I'll be creating a detailed budget. Right now I have high level estimates on each task, and then as I reach it I figure the vendor and come up with a specific budget. But yes, you gotta have a budget.

I've found the following below vendor to be a good sample of all the different options. I used sites like these for estimates, then look into local vendors as I get closer.
Fencing Website
 

kel

Pelican
Assuming the logistics weren't a problem (you had nothing tying you to a particular place, you could find an affordable plot), where in the US would people think is the best place for having a small rotational grazing operation? Where "best" means good climate for lush grass that can be grazed year round (which is apparently possible even in deep snow, according to Greg Judy, so doesn't have to be the deep south), ideally has low risk of other weather hazards like hurricanes and tornadoes, is far enough away from a globohomo city to minimize their influence in local life and politics but close enough to some kind of small city for needs that arise, etc.

(somewhat inspired by this thread https://www.rooshvforum.com/threads/finding-allies-deciding-locations.37774/)
 

NoMoreTO

Ostrich
I'm not familiar with the US farm prices state by state, or where is best, but I would venture to guess a small grazing location can be just about anywhere.

Here in Canada, the prices in the province of Ontario are significantly higher than out in Alberta, part of this is justified by yield/heat units but part of it is just that Alberta is lower cost farming as there aren't dairy operations out that way driving up the land prices. Also, if you are planning to sell locally, there is an advantage to being close to a city where the land prices are higher.

I would choose based on where you want to live. If your operation is indeed small, than the cost of the land might not be your major cost, but the homestead, animals, work, fencing, etc. Do you know what animals you want to have and how many acres? This might be a determining factor, you can't leave animals outside in North Dakota I would guess. Personally I would love to be in N. Carolina, I spent some time down there.
 

kel

Pelican
I mentioned North Carolina previously, actually, because somehow it seems like a happy medium - warmer than up north so you get more grass, but still not the deep south (I'm from the north, between too cold or too hot I'll take too cold any day of the week, I just am still confused about how this winter grazing thing works so I'm looking for somewhere with less snow). I'm planning to start with just a few acres. My ideal, I guess, is maybe 20 acres on which I rotationally graze cows and follow the layer hens behind them and have a few pigs as my organic waste disposal, and over time I'd like to try other stuff - ducks, sheep,whatever. All pie-in-the-sky, now, but something I think about a lot. Anyways, I'm imagining starting on something like 6 acres, then moving up to 20, and this is all further complicated by the fact that I'm trying to move several people out there with me to make a little community, so that's more land (for both living and working), and perhaps we want to pool those resources....

Anyways, just something I think about. Oregon seems nice, too, besides the politics. Rainy, maybe, but that makes it green, and they don't really get a winter as I would call it. That's on the opposite side of the country from where my family and North American life are based so far, though. I'm considering somewhere in the Adirondacks or Finger Lakes maybe, but again, gotta figure out the winter animal situation, and just being in the state called New York exposes you to a lot of the city called New York's bullshit.

Re: Canada, I read a book about how hard it is to make a small farm work in Quebec because of all the regulations and inspections and limitations on doing direct-to-market operations, it basically makes it so only a big industrial operation can possibly survive. I'd be open to living in Canada, though, stuff like that aside.
 

NoMoreTO

Ostrich
Anybody ever operate one of these? We always used a tractor & forklift but I think they might be seriously handy for loading and unloading bales, running an auger for fence posts, clearing ground for a house build, or just brush. I can borrow a 85hp JD tractor (no loader) from my family for field work so i've started looking into these a bit too. Still mainly considering a tractor with a loader.

 

ICXC

Newbie
What is that?
'Free-land'

"The homestead was an area of public land in the West (usually 160 acres or 65 ha) granted to any US citizen willing to settle on and farm the land. The law (and those following it) required a three-step procedure: file an application, improve the land, and file for the patent (deed). Any citizen who had never taken up arms against the U.S. government (including freed slaves after the fourteenth amendment) and was at least 21 years old or the head of a household, could file an application to claim a federal land grant. Women were eligible. The occupant had to reside on the land for five years, and show evidence of having made improvements. The process had to be complete within seven years."

Long story short the west needed to be expanded and they needed an incentive to do so. Do I want National Forest's getting used, no, but there's a ton of Alaskan wilderness and Yukon which is still incredibly expensive. Certain states have different homestead laws; i.e. 'we'll make it cheaper for you if you're going to farm the land' or what not. But the main take away point here is that land is expensive, but those of us willing and able to homestead it or don't mind the wilderness shouldn't be restricted to buying it. Sounds kind of silly ok, but the fact of the matter is there's no incentive to farm because big business owns the agro industry, I mention all of this because were essentially slaves ok, this isn't the 'land of the free', our freedom is an illusion and limited to select amount of choices. The only real option to break this commie state which the U.S. has become is to allow for the individual to plot their land call it their own. Sure, the capitalist will just say, "You are free, why are you complaining?" - well, for one I'm not complaining, but generally speaking making an arbitrary measurement like money as equal to my entire humanity as the equivalent of 'freedom' is kind of ridiculous. Sure, I'm 'free' to save money, but it's really missing the point to think money = freedom and is 'everything'. Money is just another gatekeeper metric tool to keep you enslaved without revolting. Money intrinsically is more neutral in general, but it's also vastly overrated and there is an insane amount of weight put on money as if it actually matters when it doesn't.

The obvious precursor to this is how 'chaz' is making it's insane claims and while that whole experiment is a joke and farce the underlying issue is still relevant; i.e. your only as free as the capital you have. In other words if you don't have any money, you aint buying any land, hell, if you don't have any money obviously your off in lala-land, but the fact remains that the barrier to entry is still fairly steep and the society 'game' employed is pretty ridged. Anyways my whole point in bringing this up is I just want free-land because it's there and no one's doin' anything with it and I don't feel like I should have to pay to be perfectly honest.

You ever driven through the southwest U.S. or any of these places where there's not a city in site for miles and miles and miles? There is a TON of land ok, and obviously who wants to start building in the middle of a desert, but it's even true the more north you go,anyways I just don't think I should have to pay. Forget giving me a stimulus check, how about give me acres of land instead.
 

NoMoreTO

Ostrich
Wow. Super interesting stuff. Agree totally that it would be a whole lot saner policy than just putting everyone on welfare. 160 acres is a big chunk of land, amazing what the opportunity people got back in the day and they returned it in kind with hard work, clearing and building the farm. In hindsight it's too bad they didn't give the slaves their 40 acres and a mule, America would probably be alot better off for it.

On a practical level, I don't think it'll ever get support in the near term. We're losing land rights and respect for the heartland from the city seems to be on the decline. The gap between the city and country mindset seems to just keep growing.

If you're serious about a property, I'd consider one that's already up in a low cost area and has been run right down. I bought a piece of land with a run down farm site, and the work involved in just bringing it back is staggering. I'd say a small farm is the way to go, alot of the big guys don't want to bother with these plots but for someone who wants to work, and is operating on a small scale it'd work. The hard part is, unless you have some sort of inheritance it's hard to cover the costs without a 9-5 or side hustle of some sort.
 

Bolly

Pelican
Anybody ever operate one of these? We always used a tractor & forklift but I think they might be seriously handy for loading and unloading bales, running an auger for fence posts, clearing ground for a house build, or just brush. I can borrow a 85hp JD tractor (no loader) from my family for field work so i've started looking into these a bit too. Still mainly considering a tractor with a loader.

Skid steers are pretty handy little things. pretty fun to use when you get the hang of the controls. Personally I think they're way overpriced. But yeah pretty handy for like cleaning out a barn or corrals or something with tight spaces that might be to big for a loader. Easier to maneuver. Thing with skid steers is you're liable to tip or roll if you get carried away with to much weight. Might also want to look at auctions for telehandlers. They're real good for loading bales. They can handle a lot of weight. Plus you get a real long boom to use which is good to have or reaching into hard to get places. Stick some pallets on the spears and you got yourself a platform to work up at heights while someone operates. There's bucket attachments too for telehandlers if ya need it. But I mean all this stuff, moving hay, cleaning, fencing, plowing, lifting heavy shit could be done with a loader and a bale spear attachhment or a grapple. But since this stuff is prone to going down, especially when you don't want it too its a good idea to have a backup. You can run your auger for digging fence posts off your loader too. See if you can rent a skid steer first before you buy it and see what you think. Constantly having to rent for a period of like 10 years probably will cost about the same as just buying one upfront. And for me, hell with tracks. I'd rather work on tires when shit happens.
 

ICXC

Newbie
it's too bad they didn't give the slaves their 40 acres and a mule, America would probably be alot better off for it.
Yeah agreed, well put. I know that the USDA will help out up and coming farmers and will even reimburse you for taking over an old farm like what you mentioned, but yeah it's still kinda pricy. Yeah I mean the big problem is not just getting started, I mean that's it's own series of events and costs, but the market is taken. The Big agro owns so much that even if you were to get some inherit some farm and say it was even paid off, the market is really bought and sold. It's incredibly difficult to lower cost's and make a profit early on. Maybe I'm wrong and simply don't have enough information on the topic, but the time, energy, and startup cost investment is pretty steep and really discourages new-comers to getting started. Where abort's is your farm if you don't mind mentioning?

I mean ideally you want something out of the way and that yuppies won't ruin in 10, 20, 30 years, that's why I say they need to bring back the 'free-land' act. I mean seriously, it's kind of insulting that i can't just go into the damn woods and start homesteading as long as I tell someone all should be good. Obviously we live in a country with laws, blah blah blah and by no means do I want the National Forests or Parks destroyed or anything like that. Obviously the government wants to track you and you gotta pay taxes, I actually don't care about that at all, I don't want to separate myself, I'm simply saying they've locked down land expansion and the price to admission, while not unrealistic, seems unnessecary given there's so much. Land should seriously be free for whoever wants it. I don't care about paying taxes and all that and they know where I am obviously I don't care about any of that at all, if they have your SSN they already know everything about you anyways. I'm not even talkin bout being a 'hermit' or something, simply sayin that land needs to be free to whoever wants it, there is so much damn land it's insulting that I should have to pay for any of it.

Yeah I've considered shopping round for an old used farm, but man, like I said, does the ends justify the means for that? The outlook for organic and small farm goods is pretty positive but man big agro buisness will still force you to double or triple your prices I think. I dunno it's a complicated topic and there's a lot there to unpack, but what do you use your farm for?
 
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NoMoreTO

Ostrich
Yeah I've considered shopping round for an old used farm, but man, like I said, does the ends justify the means for that? The outlook for organic and small farm goods is pretty positive but man big agro buisness will still force you to double or triple your prices I think. I dunno it's a complicated topic and there's a lot there to unpack, but what do you use your farm for?
I'm looking at bringing in some bison at some point. I'll have to be fully moved back in order to do that though, as I feel I gotta be there. Until then oats and hay.

The organic market is still growing, people will pay for quality food, and if big agriculture keeps up with its BS, organic could grow some more. There are more and more people selling direct off their farms around here this year. 3 people selling eggs on my road alone. Organic farming is hard work, you can't just spray your problems away.
 
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