Fasting

NickK

Kingfisher
Orthodox
It does have benefits in small doses. A glass per meal is permissable in Orthodox tradition. St Paul recommends wine to St Timothy for his stomach.

Here is a small anecdote from the Gerontikon. I forget the names of the elders but it goes something like this.
A seasoned monk visited a great elder to receive spiritual advice. When they sat down to eat the elder offered the younger monk two glasses of wine during the meal and the monk seemed to expect a third one. Then the elder said:
"The first glass is of God, the second glass is of man and the third one of the devil".
 

DanielH

Ostrich
Orthodox
Are we discussing liturgical wine? This could lead to entirely different thread. I've slowly formed an opinion that ALL booze is bad and a gateway to sin and self harm. I've seen myself and so many others damaged by it. I find the current medical advise of 'two glasses a day' won't harm you to be complete nonsense. From a chemical standpoint alcohol is poison for your body and provides zero health benefits.
I'm curious what the teetotaler/baptist response to Christ turning water into wine at a celebration where everyone was already drinking wine. Do they think he just made sour grape juice? Otherwise you must think, by this logic, that Christ poisoned people. There is no qualifier to the wine he made, that it was any different than normal wine, just that it tasted better.
 

iop890

Peacock
Gold Member
I'm curious what the teetotaler/baptist response to Christ turning water into wine at a celebration where everyone was already drinking wine. Do they think he just made sour grape juice? Otherwise you must think, by this logic, that Christ poisoned people. There is no qualifier to the wine he made, that it was any different than normal wine, just that it tasted better.

I have a friend that's in a goofy oneness pentecostal 'church', and yeah, his family thinks it was grape juice.
 

iop890

Peacock
Gold Member
So they believe in something not stated in the Bible? Ha

They always have the wackiest explanations when I question any of their beliefs. I think some things I've brought up in the past have made the guy uneasy but his whole family is in it which makes him reluctant to question it, and he's done the "speaking in tongues" nonsense which he takes as a confirmation of them "having the spirit".
 

Stadtaffe

Woodpecker
Orthodox
Gold Member
Are we discussing liturgical wine? This could lead to entirely different thread. I've slowly formed an opinion that ALL booze is bad and a gateway to sin and self harm. I've seen myself and so many others damaged by it. I find the current medical advise of 'two glasses a day' won't harm you to be complete nonsense. From a chemical standpoint alcohol is poison for your body and provides zero health benefits.
I agree, and try to not exceed one glass every two days. More usual for me is about two glasses per week.

Yes, it's not a nutrient, although there are some very long lived people who also drink in moderation so not sure it's a poison either.

Definitely have seen damage as well in people, some have to avoid it totally.

'two glasses a day' advice is for a struggling family or single mum slowly sinking and not slowing their own demise.
 

Seeker79

Kingfisher
I'm two months into doing 16/8. Also completed 3 separate 24 hour fasts during the last month. Some observations:
  • First two weeks was tough getting used to. I've eaten breakfast my whole life so not eating until noon (I maintained a 12-8pm eating window) was rough. I didn't feel a lack of energy but around 9am was getting very hungry. However, after two weeks I was used to it. Sometimes would forget to eat right away at noon and end up breaking my fast around 1 or 2pm.
  • One negative side effect for me has been insomnia. Few times a week I'm having trouble falling asleep. I read that fasting sometimes causes insomnia and I believe it. When you stay up later you also start to get hungry at night. I've had to drink warm milk or violate my fast with food around midnight to help me fall asleep few times.
  • Overall I feel lighter and more focused. When I eat dinner it's very fulfilling and purposeful. I have also lost 2-3 lbs despite maintaining basically same caloric intake.
  • I didn't stop working out during IF. But I did adjust workout times to occur either first thing in the morning (when your body naturally increases blood sugar using stored glucose in your liver) or 2-3 hours after my noon meal. There is a noticeable decline in performance if I work out without having some energy in my bloodstream.
 

El Draque

Kingfisher
Orthodox
Gave up alcohol 2 months ago, primarily because the wife & I are planning for a baby, and want to be in as good shape physically & mentally as possible.

I was barely drinking much, just one or two max in one sitting, more often 1, but with fairly regular timing. Eg 3-4 nights per week, one or two, then maybe once a week with a meal maybe three, sometime pushed to 4. Just beers or wine for most part, very seldom anything stronger.

In the past 18 months i'd be drunk (eg beyond four drinks) maybe twice, or three times.

Even with this (in reason) relatively modest drinking, i feel so much better without alcohol, I very much doubt i'll ever go back, not even to one or two, here and there.

You just don't need it, it's pure habit. Drink sparkling water instead, and feel lighter, clearer headed and do without the calories & digestion & system pressure that even a few drinks adds.

Beyond the unnecessary physical toll that even moderate drinking adds, any kind of drinking to inebriation in this current age of confusion & psy-ops is just plain stupid. You are weaking your defences, physically, mentally & arguably spiritually.

Do yourself a favour and drop it entirely. Maybe miss it for first few weeks, but if you have contentedment in other areas of your life, then you will soon feel much better and clearer without it, and not want to go back.

My experience at least.
 

BasilSeal

Sparrow
I recently started OMAD (one meal a day). For the last two years during lockdown I have been anything but healthy and fit. Between snacking and elevated alcohol use, I had managed to put on 20+ lbs from ~145 to ~165 @ 5'8.

On a whim, I took a blood test (msg me for how to do this without your doctors rx). High hereditary cholesterol is normal for me, but the high triglycerides and elevated GGT was concerning, and new. These things were definitely having an affect on my health, evidenced by my gut. At a minimum... some fatty liver and potentially worse. So, that day I committed to OMAD and keto, and cut alcohol out completely. On that last point, I intend to never go back.

Here is my experience, admittedly only a week in. Day 1-2 ... lightheaded mostly in the morning. Headaches for the first 5-6 days. I have started to associate hunger with "its working", and that has helped.

I really enjoy eating much more. I spend a lot more time planning meals, and now spend about an hour each day, sometimes more, cooking a big meal for everyone (adapting to keto or separating for others my portion when I cant).

After a week I only really feel the hunger within the last hour before eating... which is once per day around 4pm. The rest of the day is only water, hot coffee, unsweetened ice tea. You would think I'd feel like crap in those other 23 hours... but as others who've done this have said... I feel more energetic. A surprise outcome is I feel a lot less forgetful. I'm not only remembering little tasks I need to do that I haven't written down, but also interesting old memories I've forgotten are coming up with amazing clarity. My mood itself even seems better. I'm happier and more pleasant to be around.

It is early days but I am hopeful these things continue. Here is my chart of the last week. Each recent point is a one day interval. The big jump up represents a gap of two lockdown years. In the last (edit: just under two weeks) I've lost 8lbs. I figure that's about 30-40% of the goal. On average, I'm losing about .5lb per day.

Hope this helps someone.
 

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Grow Bag

Kingfisher
I recently started OMAD (one meal a day). For the last two years during lockdown I have been anything but healthy and fit. Between snacking and elevated alcohol use, I had managed to put on 20+ lbs from ~145 to ~165 @ 5'8.

On a whim, I took a blood test (msg me for how to do this without your doctors rx). High hereditary cholesterol is normal for me, but the high triglycerides and elevated GGT was concerning, and new. These things were definitely having an affect on my health, evidenced by my gut. At a minimum... some fatty liver and potentially worse. So, that day I committed to OMAD and keto, and cut alcohol out completely. On that last point, I intend to never go back.

Here is my experience, admittedly only a week in. Day 1-2 ... lightheaded mostly in the morning. Headaches for the first 5-6 days. I have started to associate hunger with "its working", and that has helped.

I really enjoy eating much more. I spend a lot more time planning meals, and now spend about an hour each day, sometimes more, cooking a big meal for everyone (adapting to keto or separating for others my portion when I cant).

After a week I only really feel the hunger within the last hour before eating... which is once per day around 4pm. The rest of the day is only water, hot coffee, unsweetened ice tea. You would think I'd feel like crap in those other 23 hours... but as others who've done this have said... I feel more energetic. A surprise outcome is I feel a lot less forgetful. I'm not only remembering little tasks I need to do that I haven't written down, but also interesting old memories I've forgotten are coming up with amazing clarity. My mood itself even seems better. I'm happier and more pleasant to be around.

It is early days but I am hopeful these things continue. Here is my chart of the last week. Each recent point is a one day interval. The big jump up represents a gap of two lockdown years. In the last week I've lost 8lbs. I figure that's about 30-40% of the goal. On average, I'm losing about .5lb per day.

Hope this helps someone.
It was my experience that the weight loss became too great on keto, though I did like how I felt and as you say, it makes one sharper. I've done OMAD and it worked as you described. Now I'm on 2 meals in a 5 hour window and eating carbs, but I've cut out the cakes and pastries. I love my bread and am loathe to cut it, but I've got 2 tooth cavities that I don't want to get worse, so may have to cut the bread and go keto. I hate being skinny though.
 

Grow Bag

Kingfisher
It was my experience that the weight loss became too great on keto, though I did like how I felt and as you say, it makes one sharper. I've done OMAD and it worked as you described. Now I'm on 2 meals in a 5 hour window and eating carbs, but I've cut out the cakes and pastries. I love my bread and am loathe to cut it, but I've got 2 tooth cavities that I don't want to get worse, so may have to cut the bread and go keto. hate being skinny though. I'm 5'10" and about 150 pounds, with keto I go down to around 140 pounds
 

Batman_

Kingfisher
Anyone else find that IM fasting impacts their sleep if they eat early in the day instead of night?

I've always preferred skipping breakfast and lunch and eating only in the evenings. But if I eat early in the day and fast after 6pm or so (I go to bed around 11:45pm), my sleep quality is usually very negatively impacted. It makes me feel too wired to be in a fasted state.
 

BasilSeal

Sparrow
I used to have the worst time falling asleep. Severe insomnia. I used to try to solve this with a quick snack, thinking it was hunger that was keeping me up. Even with melatonin and unisom!

I actually find that with intermittent fasting, I am now sleeping like a baby, I drift off within 30m of laying down vs. hours of waiting for sleep to maybe happen (maybe not...). No sleep supplements.

I also now wake up about once a night vs. several times, and am up to about 8 hours of sleep. I previously might get 4 on a good night.

So, my experience with sleep is very positive. The worst aspect is a slight morning headache when I've slept that long. That goes away once up upright and have had some water of coffee.

I eat at 4pm daily (until full) and fast at least 23 hours in between. I get in bed around 930p.

Update on fasting. Yesterday was 14 days, total lost: 10 lbs. Ten more to go.
 

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MRBR1908

Pigeon
I'm two months into doing 16/8. Also completed 3 separate 24 hour fasts during the last month. Some observations:
  • First two weeks was tough getting used to. I've eaten breakfast my whole life so not eating until noon (I maintained a 12-8pm eating window) was rough. I didn't feel a lack of energy but around 9am was getting very hungry. However, after two weeks I was used to it. Sometimes would forget to eat right away at noon and end up breaking my fast around 1 or 2pm.
  • One negative side effect for me has been insomnia. Few times a week I'm having trouble falling asleep. I read that fasting sometimes causes insomnia and I believe it. When you stay up later you also start to get hungry at night. I've had to drink warm milk or violate my fast with food around midnight to help me fall asleep few times.
  • Overall I feel lighter and more focused. When I eat dinner it's very fulfilling and purposeful. I have also lost 2-3 lbs despite maintaining basically same caloric intake.
  • I didn't stop working out during IF. But I did adjust workout times to occur either first thing in the morning (when your body naturally increases blood sugar using stored glucose in your liver) or 2-3 hours after my noon meal. There is a noticeable decline in performance if I work out without having some energy in my bloodstream.

Read some info that working out two hours before bedtime helps with sleeping like say a good 20 to 30 minute rowing workout or maybe elliptical or stair climber, but my personal remedy if you are able, is hit a sauna at a gym about an hour before normal bed time. Now I am extremely lucky my gym with sauna is three miles away (but I would still love my own sauna at home).
 

Batman_

Kingfisher
I used to have the worst time falling asleep. Severe insomnia. I used to try to solve this with a quick snack, thinking it was hunger that was keeping me up. Even with melatonin and unisom!

I actually find that with intermittent fasting, I am now sleeping like a baby, I drift off within 30m of laying down vs. hours of waiting for sleep to maybe happen (maybe not...). No sleep supplements.

I also now wake up about once a night vs. several times, and am up to about 8 hours of sleep. I previously might get 4 on a good night.

So, my experience with sleep is very positive. The worst aspect is a slight morning headache when I've slept that long. That goes away once up upright and have had some water of coffee.

I eat at 4pm daily (until full) and fast at least 23 hours in between. I get in bed around 930p.

Update on fasting. Yesterday was 14 days, total lost: 10 lbs. Ten more to go.

Nice work. I find it interesting how people react so differently to fasting affecting their sleep. Most people I talk to do what you described.

I usually eat my first (and only) big meal about 3-4 hrs before bed, and may occasionally follow it up with a light meal 1-2 hours later, and I always sleep great. If I go more than 5, 6 hours, my sleep is impacted quite a lot.

Carbs actually promote the release of serotonin, so it makes sense they could help you sleep (as long eat healthy carbs and not in excess). Additionally, fasting increases cortisol - so it amazes me this actually helps some people sleep. There has got to be other neurochemicals/hormones at play here.
 
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