Clergy & Monastics Father Andrew Damick

[Roosh]

Regarding @Chasinglogos ' photo of Fr Andrew's response and what @Hermetic Seal shared above, it sure seems like Fr. Andrew is really interested in gatekeeping Orthodoxy. I guess that is a small part of his role as an Orthodox clergyman on the internet, but I want to know from him what specifically Jay Dyer and people like him are sharing that is wrong? You don't like how he lives his life? Okay, what about the theology he shares? Is that wrong? Because from @Hermetic Seal 's link, that's what he's saying.

I've watched a lot of theology related videos from Jay Dyer, @MichaelWitcoff , and others, please explain to me what they are teaching that is wrong.

As Fr Andrew says, emphasis mine:

What is that distorted faith? He's making things less clear, why would you make things less clear on a site for inquirers and catechumens? Who are these people, and what are their distorted teachings?

Also, the top Orthosphere people everyone thinks he's referring to actually do have blessings, so he's making it seem like they are some sort of Orthodox e-rogues. Jay Dyer has interviewed clergy, and a bishop led a catechism course through his platform.

This is starting to be upsetting. He's throwing out accusations while encouraging speculation, all targeted at the zealous corner of Orthodoxy who are taking hits speaking about issues that many clergy won't touch. Ancient Faith Inc is not the light of Orthodoxy. You must really use discernment when consuming their content as they morph into a pan-Orthodox business. To be involved with them and attack the Orthodox zealots is concerning.

 

[Thomas More]

Delete

 

[Hermetic Seal]

If he's getting at how the highly-polemical nature of some online Orthodox figures might be making converts and catechumens who come across as hotheaded jerks more interested in starting and winning fights rather than humility and theosis, I can see his point. You do encounter this kind of thing on social media pretty regularly, though it's worth pointing out that every type of Christianity on the internet is just as likely to have this problem, there's nothing about it uniquely Orthodox.

The way I look at it, even the more polemical apologists out there can be serving a helpful purpose, but it can cause problems if onlookers start to see them as a spiritual authority rather than their priests or bishops. This is all vastly complicated of course by many clergy who have completely capitulated to the narrative surrounding coofid, BLM, and so on. The solution seems to be for clergy to respond better to this stuff in the first place so people don't congregate around potentially unstable internet personalities.

 

[MichaelWitcoff]

He’s not objectively wrong that the “Bloodsports” type of debate which many Orthodox have engaged in - including myself on Saturday, even if unplanned - is unbecoming an Orthodox Christian and represents the dispassion we ought to seek poorly to the world. The problem is that he himself has engaged in exactly the behavior he’s describing and, to my knowledge, has never apologized either to the person I saw him fighting with on Twitter or to the internet as a whole for losing his cool as a very public priest. The words he’s saying are generally correct (besides the “no blessing” part), but this strikes me as a case of “those in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.”

 

[Blade Runner]

This is all vastly complicated of course by many clergy who have completely capitulated to the narrative surrounding coofid, BLM, and so on. The solution seems to be for clergy to respond better to this stuff in the first place so people don't congregate around potentially unstable internet personalities.

This is precisely the point. The leadership from nearly all (at least in the West) jurisdictions, or at least the most prominent of the eastern orthodox churches or their diaspora, can be quite accurately stated as being schizophrenic. Nothing about State interference is necessarily easy, for anyone. But when valid criticisms are directed at the way bishops, priests, and laypeople handle the current issues (which are quite important and unseen in quite a long time), they should not result in further bad messaging, illogical arguments, or hiding behind vague terms like "care" or "love" when specific actions are demanded or condemned.

I agree with Hermetic Seal in that I think we are both stating that people are not going to increase their faithfulness or understanding of the church and its teachings when presumed "chaotic" teachings are countered with further, unclear messaging. Yes, the internet can be a dangerous place but for every reference to "bishop" this and "church" that I've got whole scoop of St. Maximos and St. John Chrysostom stories of exile and worse, from a church that had bishops, archbishops and patriarchs who directly oversaw it.

 

[Lawrence87]

I think he is blaming "personalities" for a problem that is also due to the nature internet itself.

For instance, take Fr. Heers. His videos cover a pretty broad spectrum of different subjects. However, if someone had an axe to grind about a certain issue, and so were only really invested in clicking on videos related to that subject then they might develop a skewed perspective that is entirely of their own doing.

If you spend all day watching videos that come up when you search "Orthodox Christian view on [insert topic here]" you can easily bias yourself into some pretty weird points of emphasis, and then when you go to your priest spouting off about it they might see it as a problem of these "personalities" when actually it's just the things that you are predisposed to search for an click on. Things that do not give an adequate overall portrayal of the views held by these personalities.

 

[Basilus of Moro]

It grieves me to see some of the things Fr. Andrew has said publicly, misleading many of our Orthodox brothers.

Here are a few notable statements that come to mind (they all seem related):

(1) He once said that the evidence for Catholicism vs Orthodoxy is not such that one viewpoint is more or less reasonable than the other. He was meaning, in other words, that there are good reasons for being either.

(2) He promotes an ecumenical ecclesiology a la Fr. Matthew Baker, who claimed that Fr. George Florovsky believed that all of the sacraments of the papists, for example, were spirit-filled, far beyond the claims of Fr. George's published works. Fr. Matthew and Fr. Andrew believe the same.

(3) He believes that the Kollyvades Fathers were innovators in requiring baptism for papists.

(4) He attacks Fr. Peter for strange reasons - e.g. he doesn't know who his bishop is, even though Fr. Peter is a faculty member of Holy Trinity seminary. It's odd that he says these things publicly, but never reached out to Father for clarification. He is instead mimicking the Bishop Golitzen and others who defended the worst COVID measures.

(5) He defended questionable feminists at AFR against the reasonable concerns of Jay Dyer. When Dyer tried to reach out when he saw Fr. Andrew saying rude things about him, Fr. Andrew hung up and refused to talk to him. He called Jay a "conspiracy theorist" and, if memory serves, something akin to "racist" or"alt-right."

Is this worth posting here in this public forum? I'm not sure. It is sometimes best to just say one disagrees with someone. I do disagree with him about the above issues. I believe they are important and unambiguous, but I also have not spoken with him directly to receive clarification of his views. Perhaps, in due time, he will correct these errors. We should all pray for this outcome.

 

[Blade Runner]

As I wrote in the Taleb thread, it can be sad when a man with talent and gifts meets social media.

That gauntlet is obviously a hard one to run for many; I think here we have yet another example.

I have no intent on "burning" anyone here but let's recap: A man goes from parish priest to Chief Content Officer. Things get a little dicey, to say the least, on a few issues.

You can decide if my first two sentences don't have to do with that point, directly.

 

[Roosh]

So he stopped being a pastor last year of an Antiochian parish:

https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/asd/2020/07/26/my-last-word-as-a-pastor/

I have encountered some of his other writing and podcasts, and he doesn't strike me as a liberal priest, so I don't think that label is justified. It seems to me that he is a moderate with some ecumenical leanings (not that that's "bad"), but nothing shocking like what we've seen in the Greek Church. It could be that the orthosphere is so zealous that anyone who is not as zealous comes across as left-leaning.

It's just that attacking your own side will lead to a firm response. I'm still scratching my head at how he could speculate publicly on Orthodox Christians he knows, listing the dangers of their public activities, without naming them. If he cared about souls being misled, shouldn't you name the person misleading the flock? I hope he will clarify in the future.

 

[Mulato_Man_Gabe]

In his latest Q and A comcast, Fr. Peter Heers does address this criticism by Fr. Andrew towards the end. His response was something along the lines of:

"Oh, is that was he's saying about me? That's a shame. It's not a secret who my bishop is- that's very disappointing to hear; he knows better than to propagate that nonsense. I have been going back and forth with Fr. Andrew Damick for 10 years. His primary inspiration in his theology tend to be academic theologians as opposed to the holy elders and the patristic fathers. I'm not impressed."

And then he shrugs.

So Fr. Andrew Damick has some sort personal difference with Fr. Peter Heers. It was nice to ser that it didn't bother Father Peter very much.

I positively refuse to watch anything concerning Fr. Andrew Damick after that GS podcast. I don't trust him. I was so upset when he attacked Fr. Peter Heers out of nowhere like that. Terrible conduct.

 

[Basilus of Moro]

In his latest Q and A comcast, Fr. Peter Heers does address this criticism by Fr. Andrew towards the end. His response was something along the lines of:

"Oh, is that was he's saying about me? That's a shame. It's not a secret who my bishop is- that's very disappointing to hear; he knows better than to propagate that nonsense. I have been going back and forth with Fr. Andrew Damick for 10 years. His primary inspiration in his theology tend to be academic theologians as opposed to the holy elders and the patristic fathers. I'm not impressed."

And then he shrugs.

So Fr. Andrew Damick has some sort personal difference with Fr. Peter Heers. It was nice to ser that it didn't bother Father Peter very much.

I positively refuse to watch anything concerning Fr. Andrew Damick after that GS podcast. I don't trust him. I was so upset when he attacked Fr. Peter Heers out of nowhere like that. Terrible conduct.

I think that’s very revealing indeed. I forgot that given his new role at AFR, the pro-vaccine St. Tikhon’s video seemingly made directly in reply to Fr. Peter’s video against the vaccine was certainly approved by him. It’s all making more sense now. It’s the COVID stuff, in part, that’s causing that crowd to turn against Fr. Peter publicly, although in a frankly cowardly way, that is, without saying his name.

 

[Caramasão]

(5) He defended questionable feminists at AFR against the reasonable concerns of Jay Dyer. When Dyer tried to reach out when he saw Fr. Andrew saying rude things about him, Fr. Andrew hung up and refused to talk to him. He called Jay a "conspiracy theorist" and, if memory serves, something akin to "racist" or"alt-right."

That was the reason Jay and Pageau had a brawl in 2018, Pageau jumped to defend Fr Damick and AFR.

Last year Pageau and Jay reconciled and Jay gave up on going after AFR, the interesting thing is that Pageau will be on Jay's show next Thursday so I wonder how Fr Damick will react to that.

 

[Mulato_Man_Gabe]

I think that’s very revealing indeed. I forgot that given his new role at AFR, the pro-vaccine St. Tikhon’s video seemingly made directly in reply to Fr. Peter’s video against the vaccine was certainly approved by him. It’s all making more sense now. It’s the COVID stuff, in part, that’s causing that crowd to turn against Fr. Peter publicly, although in a frankly cowardly way, that is, without saying his name.

Woah, can you link the St. Tikhon's video regarding the vaccine? I wasn't aware of this.

That was the reason Jay and Pageau had a brawl in 2018, Pageau jumped to defend Fr Damick and AFR.

Last year Pageau and Jay reconciled and Jay gave up on going after AFR, the interesting thing is that Pageau will be on Jay's show next Thursday so I wonder how Fr Damick will react to that.

I'm glad to hear Jonathan Pageau and Jay will finally do a video together. I thought I would never see the day.

I can't stand Pageau's content these days, but he was the one who originally converted me to Orthodoxy.

 

[Eusebius Erasmus]

In his latest Q and A comcast, Fr. Peter Heers does address this criticism by Fr. Andrew towards the end. His response was something along the lines of:

"Oh, is that was he's saying about me? That's a shame. It's not a secret who my bishop is- that's very disappointing to hear; he knows better than to propagate that nonsense. I have been going back and forth with Fr. Andrew Damick for 10 years. His primary inspiration in his theology tend to be academic theologians as opposed to the holy elders and the patristic fathers. I'm not impressed."

And then he shrugs.

So Fr. Andrew Damick has some sort personal difference with Fr. Peter Heers. It was nice to ser that it didn't bother Father Peter very much.

I positively refuse to watch anything concerning Fr. Andrew Damick after that GS podcast. I don't trust him. I was so upset when he attacked Fr. Peter Heers out of nowhere like that. Terrible conduct.

The fact that he prefers academic theologians can be inferred from his Lord of Spirits podcast, which presents obscure theories as fact.

Anyway it pains me to see such division within Orthodoxy.

 

[jeffinjapan]

I had always felt he had a bit of a modernist/ecumenical bent to him and that was confirmed a few months back on the LOS FB page when I mentioned that I received a corrective baptism about four years after my chrismation into the Orthodox Church. He went into complete meltdown mode not only betraying his lack of knowledge in ecclesiology but his belief in sacramental Grace outside the Church. It’s disappointing that he would take shots at Father Peter Heers. I’ve yet to hear a peep from Father Damick on the Covid insanity.

 

[MichaelWitcoff]

All the more reason to follow Father Josiah's advice to only pay attention to those whose names begin with "Saint."

 

[DanielH]

Woah, can you link the St. Tikhon's video regarding the vaccine? I wasn't aware of this.

You can find it on their Youtube but I wouldn't recommend it because the doctor guest misconstrues the truth or even lies in it, if not just being ignorant. He misconstrues the VAERS database, says hardly anyone has died from the vaccine, ignoring the fact that it doesn't count as a vaccine death until after you're fully vaccinated, handwaves away the aborted fetal testing, just awful stuff. Also ignores the destruction of T-cells after the inoculation, the increased viral load of the vaccinated, or how the inoculations just flat out don't work except maybe 3 months or so.

 

[Eusebius Erasmus]

All the more reason to follow Father Josiah's advice to only pay attention to those whose names begin with "Saint."

Let us all pray for Fr. Andrew, and for all priests, deacons, and bishops in the Church. To God alone be glory.

 

[DanielH]

I had always felt he had a bit of a modernist/ecumenical bent to him and that was confirmed a few months back on the LOS FB page when I mentioned that I received a corrective baptism about four years after my chrismation into the Orthodox Church. He went into complete meltdown mode not only betraying his lack of knowledge in ecclesiology but his belief in sacramental Grace outside the Church. It’s disappointing that he would take shots at Father Peter Heers. I’ve yet to hear a peep from Father Damick on the Covid insanity.

Like I said earlier, that's a huge red flag. If I could choose a spiritual father, it wouldn't be one ambivalent, at best, towards the covid measures and the inoculations. There's recent saints and elders who have warned about passes and marks tied to inoculations, it was mostly all tested or developed with aborted baby cells, it is unproven technology which may result in ADE and death, literally alters your genes through microchimerism, etc., etc.

Ignoring this is not good.

 

[NickK]

The fact that he prefers academic theologians can be inferred from his Lord of Spirits podcast, which presents obscure theories as fact.

Can you please expand on this? Which theories exactly?