Film/TV Industry

[Renberg]

I know that there's a large Los Angeles presence on RVF, but of course the film industry is not limited to one pixel of the world, so anybody is welcome to contribute! After college, I will go back to Los Angeles and put my best foot forward.

I've been all over the United States interning for production companies, not getting paid, of course. I understand what that says about the industry as well as my chance of "making it." Regardless, I'm going to attempt to follow a passion and to do so with a red pill backbone.

Are there any fellow men out there attempting to break into the industry, or have broken in, who would like to discuss tips and advice, as well as sharing their plan of action?

-R

 

[NovaVirtu]

I am surprised no one has answered this.

I'm currently transitioning into this industry as well. Renberg- what is it you want to do in this field? Lighting? Sound? Cinematography? Writing? This is a unique industry because it combines so many different fields of expertise.

As for LA- from what I've been told by friends and colleagues who've lives out there is that while studios are still headquarters out there, hardly anyone shoots there anymore. CA just can't compete against incentives offered by states like Louisiana, New York, Georgia, New Mexico etc...it makes too much sense financially for producers to not jump on that, but it's hurt the industry in the LA area.

Be sure to do plenty of research before moving somewhere.

 

[Renberg]

I am surprised no one has answered this.

I'm currently transitioning into this industry as well. Renberg- what is it you want to do in this field? Lighting? Sound? Cinematography? Writing? This is a unique industry because it combines so many different fields of expertise.

As for LA- from what I've been told by friends and colleagues who've lives out there is that while studios are still headquarters out there, hardly anyone shoots there anymore. CA just can't compete against incentives offered by states like Louisiana, New York, Georgia, New Mexico etc...it makes too much sense financially for producers to not jump on that, but it's hurt the industry in the LA area.

Be sure to do plenty of research before moving somewhere.

Thanks for the response, NovaVirtu. I've been out in Los Angeles for the past three months on internship, but now I'm back home on the other side of the country.

I am an aspiring writer. Writing screenplays is most enjoyable to me. What are you interested in?

-R

 

[cardguy]

The William Goldman books are the most entertaining (and probably useful) books on screenplays.

His stories about the film industry are amazing. They are in the top ten books I have ever read, on any subject.

One interesting point he makes is that in Hollywood - people don't care about how successful your movies are. They just care about whether or not they got made. It seems 99% of discussions for potential movies ultimately fizzle out and go nowhere.

Goldman struggled to get some film projects off the ground halfway through his career (due to a mixture of bad luck and bad decisions). And despite being a legend, an Oscar winner and the most well paid screenwriter of all time - his phone stopped ringing for awhile. And only started ringing again - after his next movie got made.

The book is full of hard won wisdom like that.

And remember - 'Nobody knows anything...'

 

[Renberg]

The William Goldman books are the most entertaining (and probably useful) books on screenplays.

His stories about the film industry are amazing. They are in the top ten books I have ever read, on any subject.

One interesting point he makes is that in Hollywood - people don't care about how successful your movies are. They just care about whether or not they got made. It seems 99% of discussions for potential movies ultimately fizzle out and go nowhere.

Goldman struggled to get some film projects off the ground halfway through his career (due to a mixture of bad luck and bad decisions). And despite being a legend, an Oscar winner and the most well paid screenwriter of all time - his phone stopped ringing for awhile. And only started ringing again - after his next movie got made.

The book is full of hard won wisdom like that.

And remember - 'Nobody knows anything...'

Thank you for this recommendation. I will definitely give Goldman's books a read.

Are you in the industry, Cardguy?

 

[cardguy]

No - I'm not.

But I have read hundreds of books about the industry since it is one of my areas of interest.

And early on in life - I wanted to be a screenwriter!

 

[RedPillComic]

I've written for a few projects (direct to DVD movies, etc). Not famous or anything, but I've made moderate sums of money to do something I like. Right now I'm producing a script I wrote, which is a whole different conversation.

Here's some advice that is a combination of my experience and that of my wealthier and more famous friends.

- I never did this, but I know people who benefited greatly from "getting on a desk" as soon as you're in LA. (This is industry-speak for being an assistant at an agency). The UTA Job List is a famous resource for open jobs. They're tough to get, so maybe you can talk whomever you're interning with to get a recommendation/referral.

As a writer, you don't need your days to be free. It will (most likely) suck to schlep coffee and answer phones, but Hollywood is one of the few places left where people really do move up from the mailroom to running the studio.

- As a writer, you'll get two main benefits. One, is that you will be able to (eventually) show your script to someone who can really help you. And you'll also get to know enough people to get the inside track for other key gigs.

- I also never did this, but getting a writer's assistant job on a TV show is GOLD. It's honestly probably harder than being hired as a writer. But I know more than a few assistants who moved up to staff writers.

- You may be thinking "TV isn't my thing, I want to only do features." If that's the case, shut the fuck up. A script is a script. And if you want to DRASTICALLY get a movie project of yours off the ground, it's good to have solid representation and contacts. Guess who has both? Working TV writers.

- On that note, get your portfolio together. Your feature script(s) are obviously in there. Then go for a spec script of a couple of your favorite shows. Then an original pilot if you want.

- And speaking of your first scripts----they will probably be dogshit. It's okay. I literally re-wrote my first feature script 6-7 times until realizing "Shit, this is about as good as it will get. The next one will be better."

Don't show your scripts to influential people unless you feel really good about them. Get some feedback from people whose opinion you respect (and who know screenwriting). And RE-WRITE. I was a fairly experienced comedian when I first started screenwriting and I thought everything would be gold. It wasn't. There is a TON of stuff to absorb and apply, not the least of which is story structure.

- If you're going to go for comedy writing, take an improv class. UCB, Second City, IO West, Groundlings. Any one of those. Again, for skills and for contacts. A lot of them have writing classes as well.

- I've heard mixed reviews about Writer's Boot Camp and similar places. Personally, I'm not sold on MFA programs on screenwriting---it seems really fucking expensive to me. But I know a girl who went through one and has had a couple movies in Sundance and now has a big-time agent.

- If you can get a low (well, low for Hollywood at least) paid writing gig---take it. I first learned how to write screenplays by getting 200 dollars a day to re-write some dogshit feature that my friend was in. It was a crash-course in screenwriting. Reading books is great, but learning by DOING is always better.

- Remember how I mentioned I wrote for a dogshit feature? Another thing to remember is that screenwriters are usually the low man on the totem pole. The producer on that project thought HIS horrible ideas would be better, which of course they weren't. But I just cashed my check and moved on. That kind of scenario can happen at any level, even if you are a star.

Books

The Art Of Dramatic Writing
Save The Cat
Screenplay
Making A Good Script Great
Story (by the kinda ridiculous Robert McKee)

There are really a ton of books you can read. Check them out from the library and then buy if you feel it would be a good reference. There is plenty of bullshit in these books, so take what you want and leave the rest.



Scripts

READ SCRIPTS. All the time. The WGA has a library on 3rd and Fairfax where you can sit all day and read scripts from your favorite shows and movies. And it's free.

Industry Websites

Done Deal Pro
Temp X
The Blacklist (also has a script hosting feature, but I've never used it)
Deadline Hollywood

John August (Go, Big Fish, etc) has a great podcast with Craig Mazin (Hangover films, etc) called Scriptnotes. Listen to that.


Hope this is helpful.

 

[magellan]

The Mailroom is a really entertaining read on how a lot of the media moguls got to where they are.

And I'm still surprised at how much useful information and people there are on RVF.

 

[Renberg]

I've written for a few projects (direct to DVD movies, etc). Not famous or anything, but I've made moderate sums of money to do something I like. Right now I'm producing a script I wrote, which is a whole different conversation.

Here's some advice that is a combination of my experience and that of my wealthier and more famous friends.

- I never did this, but I know people who benefited greatly from "getting on a desk" as soon as you're in LA. (This is industry-speak for being an assistant at an agency). The UTA Job List is a famous resource for open jobs. They're tough to get, so maybe you can talk whomever you're interning with to get a recommendation/referral.

As a writer, you don't need your days to be free. It will (most likely) suck to schlep coffee and answer phones, but Hollywood is one of the few places left where people really do move up from the mailroom to running the studio.

- As a writer, you'll get two main benefits. One, is that you will be able to (eventually) show your script to someone who can really help you. And you'll also get to know enough people to get the inside track for other key gigs.

- I also never did this, but getting a writer's assistant job on a TV show is GOLD. It's honestly probably harder than being hired as a writer. But I know more than a few assistants who moved up to staff writers.

- You may be thinking "TV isn't my thing, I want to only do features." If that's the case, shut the fuck up. A script is a script. And if you want to DRASTICALLY get a movie project of yours off the ground, it's good to have solid representation and contacts. Guess who has both? Working TV writers.

- On that note, get your portfolio together. Your feature script(s) are obviously in there. Then go for a spec script of a couple of your favorite shows. Then an original pilot if you want.

- And speaking of your first scripts----they will probably be dogshit. It's okay. I literally re-wrote my first feature script 6-7 times until realizing "Shit, this is about as good as it will get. The next one will be better."

Don't show your scripts to influential people unless you feel really good about them. Get some feedback from people whose opinion you respect (and who know screenwriting). And RE-WRITE. I was a fairly experienced comedian when I first started screenwriting and I thought everything would be gold. It wasn't. There is a TON of stuff to absorb and apply, not the least of which is story structure.

- If you're going to go for comedy writing, take an improv class. UCB, Second City, IO West, Groundlings. Any one of those. Again, for skills and for contacts. A lot of them have writing classes as well.

- I've heard mixed reviews about Writer's Boot Camp and similar places. Personally, I'm not sold on MFA programs on screenwriting---it seems really fucking expensive to me. But I know a girl who went through one and has had a couple movies in Sundance and now has a big-time agent.

- If you can get a low (well, low for Hollywood at least) paid writing gig---take it. I first learned how to write screenplays by getting 200 dollars a day to re-write some dogshit feature that my friend was in. It was a crash-course in screenwriting. Reading books is great, but learning by DOING is always better.

- Remember how I mentioned I wrote for a dogshit feature? Another thing to remember is that screenwriters are usually the low man on the totem pole. The producer on that project thought HIS horrible ideas would be better, which of course they weren't. But I just cashed my check and moved on. That kind of scenario can happen at any level, even if you are a star.

Books

The Art Of Dramatic Writing
Save The Cat
Screenplay
Making A Good Script Great
Story (by the kinda ridiculous Robert McKee)

There are really a ton of books you can read. Check them out from the library and then buy if you feel it would be a good reference. There is plenty of bullshit in these books, so take what you want and leave the rest.



Scripts

READ SCRIPTS. All the time. The WGA has a library on 3rd and Fairfax where you can sit all day and read scripts from your favorite shows and movies. And it's free.

Industry Websites

Done Deal Pro
Temp X
The Blacklist (also has a script hosting feature, but I've never used it)
Deadline Hollywood

John August (Go, Big Fish, etc) has a great podcast with Craig Mazin (Hangover films, etc) called Scriptnotes. Listen to that.


Hope this is helpful.

Thank you so much for the very helpful advice. I really appreciate the insight; it's always great to learn from people whose positions I would love to one day be in. I'm hoping my multiple unpaid internships (ha) will get me an assistant job when I get out to Hollywood. I graduate college in December, and I should be out of school with about 5 features, a spec and an original pilot (needless to say, a few of those features are shit).

In terms of TV writing, it seems like a more steady job and thus I need to focus more on scribing for television. Would you suggest attempting to get a job at an agency? My contacts who work desks for production companies suggest that route is a better route for a writer to take. But, apparently, working at an agency is more unrelaxed and stereotypical "Hollywood" feel. Not sure what I'm debating...the true task would be to get a paying job once I graduate.

RedPillComic, I hope that everything goes well for you, in your pursuit of writing. I too do stand-up and it's awesome to know there are other comedians interested in writing on the forum.

-R

 

[RedPillComic]

Yes, getting an assistant job at an agency is actually the first thing I recommended. The hours will suck and it is definitely stressful, but it opens a ton of doors. There was a girl a year or two ago that sold a pilot while she was an assistant. That kind of shit happens all the time.

Thanks and good luck to you, too.

 

[Renberg]

Yes, getting an assistant job at an agency is actually the first thing I recommended. The hours will suck and it is definitely stressful, but it opens a ton of doors. There was a girl a year or two ago that sold a pilot while she was an assistant. That kind of shit happens all the time.

Thanks and good luck to you, too.

Thanks a lot. If I ever come across any useful reads or important news I will post to this forum.

Currently, NBC is holding its Writers Fellowship applications. I believe that CBS may also be holding the competition at this point in time, too.

Let's make this thread information-based as well as advice-based, so everyone is encouraged to post any useful tools for anybody aspiring to work in the film/TV industry.

Renberg

 

[Big Country]

Have you thought about producing your own film? Do you have friends who work on the production side?

Starting out with a short film that you have written and directed is a great thing to have in your portfolio. Not only does it show that you can write, it also proves that you can get a project done. I mean, it all really depends on what role you want in the end. Are you happy with just writing and leaving the production to others?

I am currently in the process of shooting a feature. My friends went to school for production so I have a solid base from which to create, and using their knowledge to make me a better storyteller is awesome. I did have to fight with my cinematographer regarding the shoot schedule and what duties he would have. At first he wanted to do a short, but the scripts for my short and my feature will essentially shoot over the same period of time.

You also don't need THAT much money to do it. A lot of actors will eschew getting paid in order for a small percentage of the back-end. If it doesn't pan out the way you hope, then you have lost nothing and still have the experience in your back pocket.

 

[Renberg]

Have you thought about producing your own film? Do you have friends who work on the production side?

Starting out with a short film that you have written and directed is a great thing to have in your portfolio. Not only does it show that you can write, it also proves that you can get a project done. I mean, it all really depends on what role you want in the end. Are you happy with just writing and leaving the production to others?

I am currently in the process of shooting a feature. My friends went to school for production so I have a solid base from which to create, and using their knowledge to make me a better storyteller is awesome. I did have to fight with my cinematographer regarding the shoot schedule and what duties he would have. At first he wanted to do a short, but the scripts for my short and my feature will essentially shoot over the same period of time.

You also don't need THAT much money to do it. A lot of actors will eschew getting paid in order for a small percentage of the back-end. If it doesn't pan out the way you hope, then you have lost nothing and still have the experience in your back pocket.

Thank you for the tips. Producing my own movie is definitely something that I've considered. Honestly, ideally, I would write and others would direct and produce what I've written. However, the idea of filming some of my comedy sketches sounds appealing. Definitely a good point and something to look into.

-R

 

[NovaVirtu]

Have you thought about producing your own film? Do you have friends who work on the production side?

Starting out with a short film that you have written and directed is a great thing to have in your portfolio. Not only does it show that you can write, it also proves that you can get a project done. I mean, it all really depends on what role you want in the end. Are you happy with just writing and leaving the production to others?

I am currently in the process of shooting a feature. My friends went to school for production so I have a solid base from which to create, and using their knowledge to make me a better storyteller is awesome. I did have to fight with my cinematographer regarding the shoot schedule and what duties he would have. At first he wanted to do a short, but the scripts for my short and my feature will essentially shoot over the same period of time.

You also don't need THAT much money to do it. A lot of actors will eschew getting paid in order for a small percentage of the back-end. If it doesn't pan out the way you hope, then you have lost nothing and still have the experience in your back pocket.

Thank you for the tips. Producing my own movie is definitely something that I've considered. Honestly, ideally, I would write and others would direct and produce what I've written. However, the idea of filming some of my comedy sketches sounds appealing. Definitely a good point and something to look into.

-R

Excellent advice in this thread- RedPillComic's suggestion about taking improv classes is great, definitely check it out. I've taken two and done a show before and there's nothing quite like it for teaching you how to think on your feet (a skill which can even translate into game as well)

I write comedy sketches too, glad there's other folks here into that! Some books you may want to check out:

Comedy Writing Secrets
- Excellent overview of the comedy writing process

War of Art -Absolutely essential for anyone for writes seriously as a hobby or career. Cannot recommend it enough.

 

[jamaicabound]

On a break from college I worked for a I guess you'd call it a casting company. NOthing super Hollywood, we mainly did commmercials, sometimes we'd be hired to handle movie extras, we were in charge of most of the extras for the movie the Breakup with Jennifer Anniston and Vince Vaughn. Various television commercials, some limited print work. No major roles or anything really truly hollywood. Honestly we even did hiring of promotional models so basically girls handing out Redbulls by union station in the loop. Not exactly Hollywood but something.

My biggest advice is realize you and your name are a brand. I used to see so many people, mainly girls, come in with Premadonna attitudes they only want movie roles don't wanna be an extra, don't wanna do a commercial.

This is just kind of a funny story about how taking the smallest gig can pay off. We had done casting for a promo gig for a bratworst sausage company, national brand, honestly I don't even remember which one. Hired a few cute girls to hand out samples at I think a state fair or boat race or something. Well it was billed as just look cute and handout smaples but when we got there the comapny wanted someone in like a hotdog mascot suit. Of couse all these girls turned their noses up, fuck that im cute, its hot out, you know the deal. anyhow, one girl was like ok fine, hopped right in. I forget exactly who the guy was but guy in charge or marketing or branding or whatever, liked her attitude offered her the gig as their national spokesmen for a year. I think she got 100k upfront and lots of other paying gigs as well as exposure. I don't think she ever became a leading hollywood women but heck made 100k and Im sure landed some other gigs due too the exposure.

I would say if your going to do this go out for nonpaying parts as well as paying, anwhere you can get seen and get your name out there. Also dont be afraid to do extra stuff, commercials, etc.

 

[Renberg]

Thank you for the advice all. I will buy all the books recommended on Amazon. @Jamaicabound Very cool, that's a pretty inspiring story.

As it has been stated, it's crazy that the members here have so much awesome information and knowledge about seemingly every topic. I really appreciate it, guys.

 

[jamaicabound]

Thank you for the advice all. I will buy all the books recommended on Amazon. @Jamaicabound Very cool, that's a pretty inspiring story.

As it has been stated, it's crazy that the members here have so much awesome information and knowledge about seemingly every topic. I really appreciate it, guys.

If you dont mind me asking what area of the country are you in? There's probably work to be found everywhere but obviously LA, Chicago, NY are probably going to be your best bets. If your not in one of those areas your probably going to be more doing print ads nad commercials for local smaller companies and stuff.

Obviously LA is big for movies, Chicago is big on print ads but there are plenty of movies filmed here as well. and New York I think is both.

One other piece of advice I would give you is never pay for jobs or even for headshots or prints. For headshots there's plenty of photographers willing to do them for free if you signoff and let them use your photos if their portfolio. You can reach out to photographers via their websites if you like their work or plenty looking on craigslist for people. This is how I got a portfolio put together. the photographer even called me later and me and this hot chick took some pics at the beach for him later, wound up being stock photos we actually made a few bucks off of as well. its pretty easy sorting through the ads and figuring out if someone is legit or some fag wanting to fuck you or get you naked but thats much more a problem for women than it is for dudes.

As for paying for gigs alot of places will try to charge you to get on some list or get your portfolio into so and so. Never do this. As far as looking for gigs much of the stuff online is pay sites. I know Chicago has a website actually run by the city of Chicago meant for film basically. I'll try to see if I can find the link...ok just found it. It's basically where directors and stuff can get filming permits but they also list legit casting calls on there so you dont gotta sort through all the nonsense online. Your city may have something similar.

http://www.cityofchicago.org/city/en/depts/dca/provdrs/chicago_film_office.html

Here's some casting calls for Chicago...

http://www.cityofchicago.org/city/en/depts/dca/supp_info/chicago_film_office.html

Sometimes they actually list gigs available or upcomming calls but at this time just looks like some reputable companies they suggest.

Hope that helps, if there's any other questions you have I'd be happy to try to help if I know the answer. I'd recommend if your getting into acting don't shy away from commercials and maybe also look into doing some modeling or print work. Thats how ashton kutcher got into acting I think started off as model.

 

[Brian Shima]

Renberg can you give us an update? It seems like there's schools that cater specifically to aspiring guys who want to work in the industry but I am cautious of those. Getting full of debt and a degree from a clown college comes to mind so maybe a regular university or community college is the way to go

 

[The Beast1]

Renberg can you give us an update? It seems like there's schools that cater specifically to aspiring guys who want to work in the industry but I am cautious of those. Getting full of debt and a degree from a clown college comes to mind so maybe a regular university or community college is the way to go

I might be able to help, i'll be the first to admit I tried to break into the industry and failed so learn from my mistakes and don't do them! Someone who is successful can tell you their path. This is my life's biggest failure, so please take something from the story I am about to tell.

First off, have a plan B in case you fail.

If you're going to go to school for a communications degree, it is incredibly foolish you to go to a school that isn't located in Los Angeles. Don't even bother with an east coast school claiming they have "connections" or some satellite campus on the west coast. You want to be based there for four solid years during college otherwise you run the risk of moving out there, signing a lease, and not being able to find a job to pay rent. Industry gigs only want to hire people based in LA.

Avoid any schools in the north east claiming to be the best comm and film schools in the country. There's a reason most well to do film and TV folks went to UCLA, USC, and even the ivy leagues. If you want to go to college and get a comm degree go to UCLA or USC. Those are big name schools with respectable connections to west coast industries that extend beyond entertainment. Unlike some of the BS clown colleges in the north east. You'll be able to better leverage your degree if you ultimately fail to break into the industry. Nothing is worse than paying a lot of money for a degree, not being able to find an entertainment gig, and then not being able to have a backup.

Comm and film degrees are a dime a dozen so do your best to minimize your debt load because you will be working for a pittance in the beginning. I know folks in their late 20s and early 30s still making 45k a year and that is considered good. They sadly live hand to mouth.

There is a small closet industry of entertainment gigs in New York. I'm not too familiar with it, but it's New York City. Expect to live with 5 room mates if you want to try your luck in the city.

There were a few reasons why I failed. One, I acted like a primmadonna who wanted to be paid modestly for my work. This is foolish as there are people who will happily work for free just to say they work in entertainment. Prior to my stint in Los Angeles I was working part time jobs making 10-12$ hour part time to help put me through college. I was truly spoiled by the easy money.

Two, when I started working out in LA, I was floored at how poorly treated the lowest people on the rung were. They call this "putting" in your time. I call it slave labor. Part of the reason I didn't make it.

And three, the biggest reason I failed was because I did not leverage my connections effectively which could have landed me a decent gig. I carry shame and disappointment to this day for myself because a friend who was helping me out was well intentioned and I was too young, stupid, and full of hubris to work it effectively. He normally didn't give opportunities like that and of course I further solidified that by my failure to act.

I loved the thought of being a TV staff writer, but I hated the reality.

I blame it on college level immaturity and an ego way out of bounds with reality. I almost wish I held off on going to school until my mid 20s where I would have respected the lessons and opportunities. Add it to the on-going list of failures.

However, don't let my story of foolishness discourage you. I worked with some really talented people who were truly passionate about their craft. My heart goes out to those people who are struggling to make ends meet to do something that they really love. Between their rents, cars, and student debts they live hand to mouth. Expect long hours, unhealthy diets, low pay, and big egos.

A part of me still has a small heart for the industry. A dream of mine is to start a "red pill" TV network that treats its employees well (eg the people I knew in school). If I ever land a couple million dollars, I would blow it on an entertainment industry start up. No regrets.

Side note, which a lot of people miss is that fact that there are a lot of trade jobs based in the industry. If you ever watch credits on films you'll see a lot of unions. Electricians, carpenters, etc etc. It might not be directing or some other hot shot roles, but if you like the trade and want to work in entertainment this may be a way to break in.

 

[Brian Shima]

The Beast lets say a guy doesn't want to necessarily be in the spot light but just involved in the film industry. I'm not even talking about major Hollywood crap but movies that he is proud of. How is it for more independent type of things??