Finances In A Relationship

Cruisen_Chubby

Woodpecker
Gentlemen,

I'm hoping some of the wisdom here can put my head on straight. I have been on this forum for years but have taken a break... only to find myself caught between the old PUA type of thinking and now the god oriented family man line of thinking. It is a quite a difference going from not even buying a woman a drink at the bar to basically paying for all of her stuff within a LTR. My situation is as follows:

I am in my late 20's and been dating the same girl (woman?) for 4 years. She is two years younger than myself.

We currently do not live together... I have my own place and she spends her time between living with her parents and staying with me (most of the time with me but her belongings for the most part are at her parents house which is not too far away from mine).

I make good money, have no debt, and assets (both liquid and retirement) - She... makes enough money (40k/year)... has some student debt.. and some cash saved up in savings.

She is not a spendthrift by any means - but I have begun to feel resentment. I pay for my place, utilities, internet, etc... and she is here probably 85% of the time. When we go out to eat at nice places? Me. If we take trips (nearby or exotic)... definitely me footing the bill. Basically anything that involves money that we do together... it's on me.

I would understand this dynamic if I was dating or married to a Cambodian village girl but my LTR makes decent money for someone who is single and has no kids... that's plenty to contribute but right now she is neither contributing to me or her parents... just saving money and paying for her own things while it seems everyone else is subsidizing her.

Sometimes I day dream about having a big, beautiful house with a new truck and possibly children. I can afford all of that (for now) - but in the back of my mind I know that she would benefit from all of it... but more than likely never contribute. It's like being part of a team but doing all the work yourself.

And god forbid- if my income dried up... then what?!

What do you guys think? Am I being dramatic? Am I justified? Or is it my job as the man of the relationship to provide?

Look forward to your guys' thought on this issue as I'm sure I'm not the only young man dealing with something like this.

PS- she was with me when I was broke so I don't believe she is a gold digger. The income and assets happened relatively recently.

Thanks much,

CC
 

Maecenas

Sparrow
Great questions and great post, I’m gonna watch this thread closely. I‘ve never really experienced this myself, being a provider came to me very naturally and I enjoy it a lot.

Edit:

Actually, I did feel this resentment in the beginning, now that I think about it. I felt that way for a year or two, but I think three things helped me:

1) making even more money. What’s $1,000 if you make $100,000?
2) getting my woman to give me more support and acknowledging more to myself the support she was already giving me. What does your woman do for you? Does she cook? Do chores around your house? Make your home more comfortable? Help you sort out questions and problems in your career and family and life? Randomly and pleasantly suggest ideas that make you happier? (My woman’s really good at suggesting tv shows and books for example)
3) changing my career to one that I was less bitter and resentful about. You’re gonna feel more sour about a woman using your money if you feel like you had to suffer a lot for it
 
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Gentlemen,

I'm hoping some of the wisdom here can put my head on straight. I have been on this forum for years but have taken a break... only to find myself caught between the old PUA type of thinking and now the god oriented family man line of thinking. It is a quite a difference going from not even buying a woman a drink at the bar to basically paying for all of her stuff within a LTR. My situation is as follows:

I am in my late 20's and been dating the same girl (woman?) for 4 years. She is two years younger than myself.

We currently do not live together... I have my own place and she spends her time between living with her parents and staying with me (most of the time with me but her belongings for the most part are at her parents house which is not too far away from mine).

I make good money, have no debt, and assets (both liquid and retirement) - She... makes enough money (40k/year)... has some student debt.. and some cash saved up in savings.

She is not a spendthrift by any means - but I have begun to feel resentment. I pay for my place, utilities, internet, etc... and she is here probably 85% of the time. When we go out to eat at nice places? Me. If we take trips (nearby or exotic)... definitely me footing the bill. Basically anything that involves money that we do together... it's on me.

I would understand this dynamic if I was dating or married to a Cambodian village girl but my LTR makes decent money for someone who is single and has no kids... that's plenty to contribute but right now she is neither contributing to me or her parents... just saving money and paying for her own things while it seems everyone else is subsidizing her.

Sometimes I day dream about having a big, beautiful house with a new truck and possibly children. I can afford all of that (for now) - but in the back of my mind I know that she would benefit from all of it... but more than likely never contribute. It's like being part of a team but doing all the work yourself.

And god forbid- if my income dried up... then what?!

What do you guys think? Am I being dramatic? Am I justified? Or is it my job as the man of the relationship to provide?

Look forward to your guys' thought on this issue as I'm sure I'm not the only young man dealing with something like this.

PS- she was with me when I was broke so I don't believe she is a gold digger. The income and assets happened relatively recently.

Thanks much,

CC

I think this is only an issue because you aren't married. You are still independent people pretending you are one unit. Propose, and if she says yes, use that chance to redefine how finances will work going forward.

It isn't your job to provide until you are married. Once you are married, you become one cohesive unit. There is no yours and mine, only ours. Then you can both work towards getting that dream house.

That being said, I recommend setting up a secret emergency bank account before you get married for if she decides to divorce you. Women initiate most divorce and now you no longer need a reason.
 

Beaker

Robin
Sometimes I day dream about having a big, beautiful house with a new truck and possibly children. I can afford all of that (for now) - but in the back of my mind I know that she would benefit from all of it... but more than likely never contribute. It's like being part of a team but doing all the work yourself.

There is no issue as long as she does all the womanly duties and lets you be the man. She doesn't have to contribute financially if she's taking care of the kids and the house.

The problem is that feminism makes women really insecure and pressures them into not being women. Identity politics works by making people feel insecure about who they are, to ultimately control them. She has to feel comfortable being a woman, comfortable being subservient, and you have to be comfortable being a leader and providing.

If you want to take the more egalitarian approach then she needs to provide financially for you to split the bills, and you in turn need to change diapers etc. I'd rather not do that, but there are more feminine men out there who don't mind.
 
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This is a great question to ask and many guys never really think of the financial aspects of a relationship until its too late. I just got out of a 4 year relationship and one of the main reasons why I broke up with her stemmed from finances. Most of the time finances are the main reason why married couples argue and get divorced. You need to have a sit down talk with your girlfriend and make it very clear what your expectations are as it relates to finances in the relationship. This can be anything from paying once in a while, paying for a certain % of things or showing appreciation in other ways. The point I am trying to make is that if you dont have this conversation now, she'll expect you to pay for everything fully going forward. She may make less, but that's not the point. You don't want to be taken advantage of and I think its important to let her know that. It also shows that you're willing to stand up for yourself and make her be more committed financially in the relationship. I'd also suggest having conversations on expectations for saving, 401k and other money related opics. Having these talks early only makes it easier to identify potential red flags and prepares you for uncomfortable discussions going forward...
 

Maecenas

Sparrow
Hey mate, I just read your post again. I think one of the biggest details of your post is that actually you’ve been with this girl for 4 years. Your relationship sounds like where a couple would be in their first year, where the guy is still courting a lot. At some point after the first year the woman should really start to give back. Why don’t you two live together yet? Has that conversation come up at all? Is it you or her who doesn’t want to live together? If your place is still your place and not the place for both of you that makes it a lot harder for her to contribute at home and take ownership over the kitchen, the furniture, making it happy, etc. If it’s still your place she doesn’t want to step on your toes.
 

Cruisen_Chubby

Woodpecker
Great replies and insight so far gentlemen.

The reason that we do not live together is that I have a Condo and (yes have some deeply rooted commitment issues) felt smothered and claustrophobic for the two months that she did live with me. Ended in a fight and I sent her packing.

I make good money so it isn't necessarily a big drag on me financially... but the difference is: I don't have a large house that needs cleaning nor have kids to look after... so where is the trade off?

Instead... should we not both be saving and building for our future for when that time comes?!

The resentment has been building up in me for years; which is why I'm looking for another angle because perhaps I am looking at this wrong.

It gives me anxiety to think that I will someday have a house, kids, retirement, cars, etc. to pay for but will have someone with no backbone to help out in case SHTF.

Right now she is barely working two days a week... when I asked her about it (whether she was looking for new employment or not... she said no; she's starting an online business... FFS.

She stacks her money in a savings account and doesn't contribute to me nor her parents for any of the accommodations we offer her (to allow her to save that money in the first place). Not only housing expenses but groceries too. As a single guy I was financially lean and I'd eat out or order in (very healthy options) on the regular with little to no waste. Now we go shopping and get $400 worth of groceries (which I pay for) and end up throwing out half the shit anyway because we waited too long to cook it.

Little things are beginning to compound for me that have me shaking my head.

Is it selfishness on her end? Immaturity? Laziness? Or is it me not embracing my role as the man and provider?
 

NoMoreTO

Ostrich
Just a couple of my own thoughts:
- Christianity teaches that you would be the provider, and she would be in charge of domestic affairs of the house, taking care of the kids. This is the ideal.

- It might be good she's not 'career oriented' but still has a decent job. On the other hand I'd be concerned she might be lazy if she only wants to work 2 days a week and isn't really helping at home or busy.

- Is she ready for kids? Perhaps she simply wants to be a mother, and finds her job monotonous. Maybe she wants to be Peggy Bundy, or just likes to float along as she is.

- When she's your guest, you are her host so you foot the bill. I'd ask her to pick up groceries on her own for you and so forth sometimes, to test if she's a serious freeloader or has just grown comfortable with the arrangement. It might help you with a little bit of the resentment. It's hard to tell someone who doesn't live there to split the power or heat bill, you'd be paying that with her there or not.

- Be more frugal around her, tell her you don't want to buy xyz food because you are not eating it all. Be lean on groceries and this will help with your push to get her to pick some up herself - and hopefully cook. You can lead her on this. I think the groceries and the cooking is the way to go. She isn't contributing financially so she should get in on this.

- Convince her to work and pay off her debt rather than stack her savings account. She has the time now and the money to do it. In the big picture, if things go forward to marriage, you'll want her debt free.

In my general experience, it's better to take action to deal with a resentment than to let the resentment fester and grow.
 

Barron

Ostrich
Gold Member
Bad news. You're acting like a beta male.
You've been with her for 4 years and haven't proposed. That's saying a lot.

And if it gives you anxiety to think about a future family unit with this woman, then you're in dire straights.

You obviously don't see her as wife or mother material but you're too invested to admit it.

This is the source of your anxiety.
Besides, she hasn't submitted to you.

If you both shared the goal of a family together she would be taking the necessary steps: paying off her debt then quitting her job to make a home for the two of you.

But it sounds like she's doing the opposite because she sees you as a meal ticket. And you have only yourself to blame.

Can you change this dynamic? Maybe, but why bother when you could learn from your mistakes and do better with someone younger.

Men prefer debt-free virgins without tattoos.
 

RWIsrael

Woodpecker
Have you given her the chance to pay?
A simple "Hey babe can you get this one" or "you pay for the flight, I've got the hotel" and see if she complies.
You might be surprised to learn it's just not occurred to her.

I'm married and struggling with a slightly different issue where I want to save for investments, a house, kid's education etc. and she is always the one suggesting activities, vacations and expenses, so I always feel like both a cheapskate and not leading because I don't come up with ideas.
 

Cruisen_Chubby

Woodpecker
Thank you guys for the thoughtful replies.

After a lot of reflection I realized that this "money issue" is truly not a money issue at all. I make good money and her purchases are not frivolous by any stretch of the imagination. Most, if not all, of this stuff is self imposed and things I'd like to purchase or do anyway.

Perhaps I should make a new thread or speak to some of the senior members via PM as I realized the issue at hand is this:

I am having a hard time making the transition from the Roosh1.0 lifestyle to the Roosh2.0 lifestyle.

Going from non-committal (anti marriage), spinning plates to a monogamous god fearing Christian has been difficult for me. Square peg round hole type thing.

I am very open to the conversion but am lacking the passion or the long term outlook to see that.

One of the members above says my issue is that I haven't proposed yet.. Can you really (in good conscious) recommend that a man in the west get married these days?

I was parading my underlying issue as a financial one where I think it really comes down to my relationship (or lackthereof) with Christ and my inability to see the value in having a wife and a family. I was one of the unfortunate ones who was brought up only to see divorce and ruin in the relationships around me. I guess once I found a good one (who would be a great wife and mother, btw) I am grasping at straws to find faults in her and allow me to go back to my juvenile ways.

Again - struggling with the transition. I do appreciate the thoughtful replies and I do think a thread regarding finances in a relationship or marriage would greatly benefit this forum.
 

redbeard

Hummingbird
Moderator
Going from non-committal (anti marriage), spinning plates to a monogamous god fearing Christian has been difficult for me. Square peg round hole type thing.
Are you a God-fearing Christian? If not, it will be near impossible to "transition from the Roosh1.0 lifestyle to the Roosh2.0 lifestyle." It's likely that the per-marital sex is clouding your vision and that's what's causing such confusion.
 

Barron

Ostrich
Gold Member
Perhaps I should make a new thread or speak to some of the senior members via PM as I realized the issue at hand is this:

I am having a hard time making the transition from the Roosh1.0 lifestyle to the Roosh2.0 lifestyle.

Going from non-committal (anti marriage), spinning plates to a monogamous god fearing Christian has been difficult for me. Square peg round hole type thing.

I am very open to the conversion but am lacking the passion or the long term outlook to see that.

One of the members above says my issue is that I haven't proposed yet.. Can you really (in good conscious) recommend that a man in the west get married these days?

I thought you said you've been with her for four years?
So you've also been sleeping around and collecting notches during your relationship with her?

Well that's a completely different issue than what you originally stated in your first post. Weird that you decided to reveal this information after I called you out. Didn't mean to attack you just meant to be critically honest in regards to the info you provided.

But if the bit about you spinning plates is true, you're not ready to be married or have a family with anyone.

My guess would be that you have some unresolved issues with your parents.
Good luck
 

Maecenas

Sparrow
I thought you said you've been with her for four years?
So you've also been sleeping around and collecting notches during your relationship with her?

Well that's a completely different issue than what you originally stated in your first post. Weird that you decided to reveal this information after I called you out. Didn't mean to attack you just meant to be critically honest in regards to the info you provided.

But if the bit about you spinning plates is true, you're not ready to be married or have a family with anyone.

My guess would be that you have some unresolved issues with your parents.
Good luck

I don’t think he was saying that at all, just that he used to do that before the relationship he has now, and now he’s in transition between the two (roosh 1.0 and roosh 2.0)
 

Barron

Ostrich
Gold Member
If he's been with the same woman for the past four years and hasn't strayed outside of that then I'd say he's well and truly left Roosh 1.0 behind.

But it didn't sound like that to me.

@Cruisen_Chubby which is it?
 
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JiggyLordJr

Kingfisher
You’ve been dating a girl for four years? What the heck have you guys been doing all this time, twiddling your thumbs together?

Over the course of the ~1500 days since you’ve met, has she mentioned her eagerness to become a mother and start a family? You should be fully aware of her priorities at this point, given how much time you’ve spent together.

Either put a ring on her, a baby in her, or start making exit plans. It’s time to stop living in a state of anxiety-driven indecision.

Relevant: Sunk cost fallacy
 
Gentlemen,

I'm hoping some of the wisdom here can put my head on straight. I have been on this forum for years but have taken a break... only to find myself caught between the old PUA type of thinking and now the god oriented family man line of thinking. It is a quite a difference going from not even buying a woman a drink at the bar to basically paying for all of her stuff within a LTR. My situation is as follows:

I am in my late 20's and been dating the same girl (woman?) for 4 years. She is two years younger than myself.

We currently do not live together... I have my own place and she spends her time between living with her parents and staying with me (most of the time with me but her belongings for the most part are at her parents house which is not too far away from mine).

I make good money, have no debt, and assets (both liquid and retirement) - She... makes enough money (40k/year)... has some student debt.. and some cash saved up in savings.

She is not a spendthrift by any means - but I have begun to feel resentment. I pay for my place, utilities, internet, etc... and she is here probably 85% of the time. When we go out to eat at nice places? Me. If we take trips (nearby or exotic)... definitely me footing the bill. Basically anything that involves money that we do together... it's on me.

I would understand this dynamic if I was dating or married to a Cambodian village girl but my LTR makes decent money for someone who is single and has no kids... that's plenty to contribute but right now she is neither contributing to me or her parents... just saving money and paying for her own things while it seems everyone else is subsidizing her.

Sometimes I day dream about having a big, beautiful house with a new truck and possibly children. I can afford all of that (for now) - but in the back of my mind I know that she would benefit from all of it... but more than likely never contribute. It's like being part of a team but doing all the work yourself.

And god forbid- if my income dried up... then what?!

What do you guys think? Am I being dramatic? Am I justified? Or is it my job as the man of the relationship to provide?

Look forward to your guys' thought on this issue as I'm sure I'm not the only young man dealing with something like this.

PS- she was with me when I was broke so I don't believe she is a gold digger. The income and assets happened relatively recently.

Thanks much,

CC
Yes it is the job of the man to provide IF he is married. Finances can be figured out together when married but until then, it's just two single people dating each other.

In fact, if married and some kind of misfortune happens to the husband, then it becomes the wife's responsibility for everything.

I just don't think the dynamic of shared responsibility exists in dating.
 
Thank you guys for the thoughtful replies.

After a lot of reflection I realized that this "money issue" is truly not a money issue at all. I make good money and her purchases are not frivolous by any stretch of the imagination. Most, if not all, of this stuff is self imposed and things I'd like to purchase or do anyway.

Perhaps I should make a new thread or speak to some of the senior members via PM as I realized the issue at hand is this:

I am having a hard time making the transition from the Roosh1.0 lifestyle to the Roosh2.0 lifestyle.

Going from non-committal (anti marriage), spinning plates to a monogamous god fearing Christian has been difficult for me. Square peg round hole type thing.

I am very open to the conversion but am lacking the passion or the long term outlook to see that.

One of the members above says my issue is that I haven't proposed yet.. Can you really (in good conscious) recommend that a man in the west get married these days?

I was parading my underlying issue as a financial one where I think it really comes down to my relationship (or lackthereof) with Christ and my inability to see the value in having a wife and a family. I was one of the unfortunate ones who was brought up only to see divorce and ruin in the relationships around me. I guess once I found a good one (who would be a great wife and mother, btw) I am grasping at straws to find faults in her and allow me to go back to my juvenile ways.

Again - struggling with the transition. I do appreciate the thoughtful replies and I do think a thread regarding finances in a relationship or marriage would greatly benefit this forum.


This post brings everything full circle. Good on you for being honest and introspective. This will be the first step in your journey.

First, you have to vet your current girlfriend(aka Fornication partner) and see if she is marriage material. Is she willing to get married ASAP? Is she willing to have your children soon after? If she wants to be taken care of, then she must do what a woman who wants to be taken care of does, which is be a homemaker. No, the money that you make is NOT for useless, dopamine filled trips, nor is it to buy useless material items that serve 0 purpose other than to satisfy a dopamine fix. You must start demanding this of her instead of merely looking at this as a one-way transaction deal, then your concerns may start to alleviate.
It is completely OK imo for a Man to take care of his Woman as many others have already stated here. HOWEVER, it is extremely important that the woman you're doing this with is someone who you will marry in the immediate future, not just some girlfriend, aka Fornication Partner, where the relationship is in a sort of limbo that goes absolutely nowhere for years. As others have already mentioned, you have been with your fornication partner for 4 years...what do you have to show for it? Nothing. But dont worry, virtually all of us have been in your shoes at one point or another and have since changed our ways, and can give you advice.

If she is completely ok AND enthusiastic about a life as a homemaker, getting married and have your children, the next step is to get your spiritual life in order, along with your fornication partner, and go through the sacraments of the Catholic Church, ie baptism, confession, communion etc. When you get to this stage, realize that you will have to stop fornicating until your are married. Luckily for you both, since you know each other for 4 years, and again, if she is willing to follow you and be a loving wife and future mother, you can get married within a few months depending on the diocese you live under.

If she wants to use your money in this manner, then she must start acting like a woman who deserves it. You must start acting like a Man that demands this type of behavior. Get serious and start to think about planning a family. Of course before doing so, sit down with your fornication partner and make sure she is willing to follow you, and ultimately God.
 
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