Financial crash thread (2022-2024)

Gimlet

Pelican
If precious metal dealers genuinely believed that the dollar will soon be worth nothing and gold/silver will rule the economy…then why are they all trying to sell you their bullion for dollars?
They don't think the gold/silver rule the economy. At least not the ones I deal with in real life. They think it is great short term for trade, but if the SHTF for real, everyone will try to sell them at once and there will be no buyers. (Unless you leave for another country.) The real buyers will be the refiners who will melt for processing, but they have no interest in a small amount. The farmer who takes your silver will only do it if he can trade it for something he needs. Dealers say, pray the SHTF never happens. Are they right? I don't know, but this is what they say.

People need to go to their local coin shop and talk to them. Online is all hype.
 

username

Pelican
Catholic
Gold Member
If precious metal dealers genuinely believed that the dollar will soon be worth nothing and gold/silver will rule the economy…then why are they all trying to sell you their bullion for dollars?

They make money from the spread. They buy a 1 oz silver coin for $22 and sell it for $29. They don't make money quickly from buying at $22 and just holding it. They might be dumping their profits into bullion but probably not.
 

Blade Runner

Crow
Orthodox
I get your point but if food was becoming increasingly scare, farmers would still try to sell you their excess crops.

One could believe gold was a better store of wealth than dollars, while still recognizing that dollars are valuable and convenient now (even if they won't be in the future). Beyond that, drama and hyperbole sells better than nuanced explanation.
Yes, the answer is cash flow/revenue streams. As an aside, a related idea would be that I think BTC will allow me to easily retire (it might just take some time), but since I don't know the timing, I still work. For that asset it's also far more useful for people who actually would truly consider going to different jurisdictions.
 

Ironclad

Sparrow
Orthodox Inquirer

Towgunner

Pelican
As long as the small hat tribe rules the USA there will be no "real" economic collapse.
The day the tribe members all suddenly move to a new host country, is the real day you should start worrying.

For me, all this talk of de-dollarization is just another fake crisis (like the pandemic) to introduce CBDC as quickly as possible to "save the economy".

Um, no. This long list of recent 2023 developments, as it pertains to several countries making very significant moves away from the dollar, is monumental beyond words.

Consider this. Iraq had nothing to do with 911. But, it's in the Middle East and they're Arabs and they're not fond of the US. All of a sudden rhetoric starts to buddle up about things like weapons of mass destruction. And then we attack. Leading up to all of this and a few years prior, Saddam says he's thinking about offering his oil to be traded in Euros (I believe it was). A western currency no less. That's why we invaded.

Look at the list of items above. This isn't Saddam saying in passing that he intends or would like to trade outside of the petrodollar system. That's an increasing number of major countries. With GDPs several times greater than Iraq.

The Ukraine proxy war is over the dollar. Russia backed its currency in gold. Gaddafi in Libya said the same thing and probably intended to do it...and just like that, we invaded before he could. Catching-on?

That's why we're already in WWIII. Its already started and its already kinetic.

The dollar system is why we live so well. Its now coming to an end and changing rapidly. One thing is certain, change is coming.
 

Towgunner

Pelican
I'm not entirely sold on the idea of a central bank digital currency. In the context of what is happening to the US Dollar, even if they did reorganize and issue a CBDC I'm doubtful this would solve the problem. Crypto has proven to be rather volatile. That said, it is backed by blockchain technology. But, something in me continues to be skeptical. Fiat currencies always end up becoming worthless because they're not backed by something material, such as gold. How is a CBDC any different? How is a blockchain or a vast interconnected computer network a form of collateral that substantiates the value of the currency? Its not, its just a medium.

Even though we take our technology and network infrastructure for granted and it is ubiquitous...to stake our entire currency on a highly complex system? I mean check me if I'm wrong, but, crypto is only good so long as the network operates. It invites a form of risk that I think is palatable for some kinds of assets, but, I'm hesitant about it being a country's currency. At best I think it can augment but physical currency is imperative for the same reason why backing it with tangible assets, like gold, is imperative.

The rising new paradigm in the BRICS does have crypto initiatives but they're also emphasizing collateralizing their currencies with gold and other material assets.

Also, the fundamental issue of the US Dollar is that it's going from being universally accepted as the default form of payment for international transactions, namely hydrocarbons. Reissuing the currency as a CBDC isn't going to change the fact that the majority of global GDP is now trading x-USD. And its the global currency reserve status that has hitherto substantiated our economy and political-military power. Just because the USD becomes a cryptocurrency isn't going to fix this problem. In all likelihood its going to make it worse, because, I think a CBDC is going to be a failure.

All you're doing is taking a failing currency and digitizing it.
 

Cynllo

Ostrich
Orthodox Inquirer
Fiat currencies always end up becoming worthless because they're not backed by something material, such as gold.

I think it's not the fiat nature, but rather that the fiat nature is always abused by printing/debasement. In theory a 2023 dollar could have roughly the same purchasing power as a 1913 one, or more.

Gold is a check on debasement, printing. But one that can be turned off, as with Nixon. You can't turn off the Bitcoin standard, unless you turn off more or less the entire global economy.

I don't care what CBDS are rolled out. Even if they can't be debased, they are inferior.

I don't see why the decline of the dollar matters too much to the usury and oligopoly class. I didn't read about it, but the IMF has unveiled a CBDC, of which national currencies are intended to be fascias of. More centralisation, even if other countries are fracturing off.

Go pretty much anywhere in the world, look at packaging for food and cosmetics and other household brands. A lot of Proctor and Gamble, Nestle and others. In Russia I noted how city urbanites love to spend a considerable portion of their income on globalist branded products. Some spend 10% of their income on such items.

There is an opposition to that, in the form of BRICS. In Mongolia I noted a lot of Chinese products, as well as some Western. Russia produces a lot and exports to FSU.

But Russia and others are kept out of further global.markets.

There are a number of things that may be going on , but the most likely seems to be a new BRICS vs IMF cold war, with a far narrower array of non-alligned countries.

The only options I can see are the globalists are mad and losing it; or their game is a cold war and to thoroughly debase the West.

If the West goes down, I don't see anywhere else turning course. They'll ignore the warnings of the fall of the West, lured by the temptation of liberalism, individualism. Maybe there will be a growth of a block more in line with Bukele, but still ultimately liberal.
 

Blade Runner

Crow
Orthodox
All you're doing is taking a failing currency and digitizing it.
Yes, that's why it doesn't matter regarding something like BTC, but you're missing the point: this is a rollout for control, greater taxation, development in conjunction with movement, carbon X tracking, etc. Everyone already knows the USD is a failure, the greater problem is that now that we are clearly losing our foothold to enforce its use, we better shore up the debt issues that creep and crash when the system fades away. People will be caught unaware, as they will "have no choice" in the next crash, to "preserve" whatever they have as it is transferred to the new system/wallet. The few that have foreseen this, and maintain BTC, will have many options to decide what they wanna do.
 

Cynllo

Ostrich
Orthodox Inquirer
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Ignoring inflation became transitory inflation became big inflation that may never go away.

The Biden Boom became a no landing recession became a soft landing will be, at best, the controlled demolition of the everything bubble.
 

Blade Runner

Crow
Orthodox
Uncle Jerry is now fielding questions regarding future guidance after the Fed just raised .25 again. Most think they'll pause in June, but I'm of the opinion that there could easily be a surprise where they go 1 more, if something doesn't break between now and then (likely now that the banking failures are obviousa and continuous).
 

Cynllo

Ostrich
Orthodox Inquirer
Uncle Jerry is now fielding questions regarding future guidance after the Fed just raised .25 again. Most think they'll pause in June, but I'm of the opinion that there could easily be a surprise where they go 1 more, if something doesn't break between now and then (likely now that the banking failures are obviousa and continuous).

I think they go quite a bit higher.

Recession.

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MeaningfulMan

Kingfisher
Catholic
I’m a little on edge about the news of a few more banks nearing failure today. Is this going to snowball?

Just curious if anyone has any copium.

Or if the dollar is going to collapse, please tell me. Because I have a stack of under-the-bed cash that I could liquidate into tools, new appliances, office supplies, etc.
 

Road2Damascus

Robin
Orthodox Inquirer
I’m a little on edge about the news of a few more banks nearing failure today. Is this going to snowball?

Just curious if anyone has any copium.

Or if the dollar is going to collapse, please tell me. Because I have a stack of under-the-bed cash that I could liquidate into tools, new appliances, office supplies, etc.
Nobody knows, and don't let anyone convince you otherwise. My opinion is not much. An approximate 30% correction from here would hit the Covid lows when the entire world economy shut down. I highly doubt that will happen, barring a nuke.
 

Cynllo

Ostrich
Orthodox Inquirer
I’m a little on edge about the news of a few more banks nearing failure today. Is this going to snowball?

Just curious if anyone has any copium.

Or if the dollar is going to collapse, please tell me. Because I have a stack of under-the-bed cash that I could liquidate into tools, new appliances, office supplies, etc.

My senses have been quite accurate on this, which I put down primarily to likely getting the intention of the Fed correct.

If you look at a number of contrarian investment commentators, like Schiff and Rickards, you'll often find they say that the Fed, Yellen, Powell, Bernanke etc. are fools, incompetent and making errors. I believe the opposite is true. They are skilled at rolling over the financial and political system when many contrarians have been signalling the they will collapse them. The intent of the Fed and Treasury is to avoid recession.

Going back to last year I posted here - that is the Fed's intention and that their path to doing this will be a mix of QT and QE. Pushing rates towards 7% and then using targeted QE and bailouts to paper over things that break. i.e. these bank failures we are seeing.

They are going to chart the course that presents the least damage, between fighting inflation and keeping the economy propped up.

I expect this to be a shallow recession, because that's what they are steering for. There was a recent video of Larry Summers, who is of this clique, saying that there needs to be job losses, to deal with inflation. Suggests they are going for a shallow recession.

The more interesting question is why they have ended up in this position. Primarily why did they print so much money for coronavirus. This is something we can only guess at. The evidence points towards the virus accidentally escaping from the lab. As those who were salivating for a pandemic were not ready to go with their control systems. It took them about a year from them to get somewhat organised. I believe the response was chaotic and taken as the Great Reset/2030 class saw this as the moment to pounce with the cashless control-grid society. But they got it wrong and the virus was nowhere near dangerous enough. So they created a giant mess. I can't really see much purpose behind doing that.

If it wasn't for the COVID response and the Ukraine war, we'd probably be plain sailing right now through the Biden boom, of actual real economic growth of about 1%.

Since more rate hikes are essentially necessary - they need to get rates to about the level of CPI - I think more banks will go under, there will be bankruptcies, foreclosures, price deflation, a run out of stocks etc. Once inflation is pushed down to about 2% by their measure - they will go back to QE, and likely one last insane bubble rally, followed by an event rivalling the Great Depression. And this will be used to change the monetary regime over to CBDCs etc.

I think a dollar collapse has a probability of about 0%. I expect it to loose somewhere around 10% of global reserves over around a period of three years, say by Jan 2027, and then resume it's slow decline. I don't really know what such a process will lead to. But it's quite possible that dollar inflation will persist for some time or indefinitely.

The dedollarisation trends really complicates the picture. If it were not for that, I'd say the best asset to be in now would be the dollar. And I'd expect all other broad asset classes to take a hit in the recession, including gold and BTC.

But if the recession is coupled with weakness or crisis with the dollar, then I'd expect gold and BTC to do well instead. Since BTC is about 60% below it's all time high and gold is at it's all time high, I think a hedge into BTC makes far more sense (if made now), even if it goes down. The safety status of any asset right now is in the air, but BTC seems the safest play with a 2+ year horizon.

Dollars under the bed is not a bad hedge, ideally coupled with something else bought at a good entry point. I only give buying advice at cycle lows, and right now nothing is at cycle lows. As mentioned BTC is at a decent price. It may never see these price again, but it could drop considerably in the near-future.

It will be more clear what to do as things unfold. Primarily, as the recession bottoms, you want to put all your cash into a number of high quality assets at cycle lows. I would say, primarily BTC and or shorter-term crypto holds; precious metals; commodities that will do well over the coming years - lithium, copper, uranium; an anchor in real estate; select tech stocks.

Things could obviously go much worse with people like this -

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The extent of bubbled that have no relation to actual wealth is bigger than ever before. The last 14+ years has seen a giant growth of what is essentially extended usury. There has been a growing class of people who have been inflating bubbles they are all in on. People have seen huge paper gains on assets that are priced far above what a non-bubble economy would pay. They will have to come back down somewhat. My leaning is The Fed can keep them more inflated than in 2008-9, but that's a 51:49 call.

As mentioned I only make calls when I am very sure. Over the last year or so they have had a 100% hit rate. Probably all posted on the forum.

- we will see the Fed push towards 7% - it seems most contrarians expected a quick rollover to QE
- we will see the Fed use QT, with targeted QE to paper over failures
- you should have been DCAing into BTC/crypto since July 2022 (the bottom), but be prepared for a big buy in a big crash
- calling the BTC bottom withing 24 hours in the BTC or crypto thread (Jan 2023)
- calling the 2023 top and suggesting shorting the Russell 2000 in this thread - up 20-30%
- signalling the brief $20k BTC bottom on 10 March in the crypto of BTC thread

Finally, when this thread was created, I thought it would be the most perfectly titled thread the forum had seen.

At the moment, the only thing that is obvious is that we are in a recession. Unknown Fed trickery and how much rope they have makes it difficult to have any ballpark on potential downsides and timing. And the dollar uncertainty. As things unfold more, it will be more clear what to buy and where things might go. Focus should be on getting into quality assets at cycle low in the coming two years or so. If you do that, then you won't need to threat so much when this happens again.

Also a scenario worth considering is that the economy could be very different on the other side of a recession, i.e. Japanification, when the stock market has still not recouped it's 1989 highs -


We are on the cusp of a lot of unknowns.

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KomnenAl

Robin
Orthodox
I’m a little on edge about the news of a few more banks nearing failure today. Is this going to snowball?

Just curious if anyone has any copium.

Or if the dollar is going to collapse, please tell me. Because I have a stack of under-the-bed cash that I could liquidate into tools, new appliances, office supplies, etc.
1683201521467.png
A guy I correspond with works in a US bank and told me they are working overtime and it's a hectic time for their sector.
I asked why and he sent me this graph.
 

Blade Runner

Crow
Orthodox
But if the recession is coupled with weakness or crisis with the dollar, then I'd expect gold and BTC to do well instead. Since BTC is about 60% below it's all time high and gold is at it's all time high, I think a hedge into BTC makes far more sense (if made now), even if it goes down. The safety status of any asset right now is in the air, but BTC seems the safest play with a 2+ year horizon.
Since most aren't traders, and most are reasonably young, at this point wade into BTC since most of us know that in 2024 the price will go to ATH. Then you can hold even longer, or trade if you like. The time to trade out of it will be summer 2025, if you decide to do so.
Things could obviously go much worse with people like this
Yeah, you gotta love the short term value "bump" and higher taxes, when at any moment you could lose 30% of that supposed 10% you "gained."
- calling the 2023 top and suggesting shorting the Russell 2000 in this thread - up 20-30%
You stole my thunder! :nerd
 
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