Finding a Religious Wife - Discussion

EndsExpect

Kingfisher
Since the forum is making a bit of a U-Turn, I think might be worthwhile for me to drop this information in the week before I go.

I'm going to say up front that I believe finding a Muslim or a Hindu wife is pretty easy, because those cultures seriously reinforce the religious teaching and make the women naturally higher quality.

This primary question comes from Christian guys who really struggle to find a woman in a culture that pushes females in the opposite direction of quality. So, I'm just going to put down my top observations here.

1. Submission. The Christian religion tells women to submit to their husbands as they would submit to God. If a woman won't submit to God... then she won't submit to you either. Notice the Bible doesn't say "submit to your husband if he is perfect or only when he is right"... it says always. I know women who have a very willful spirit, but are submissive to their husband. This is the type I like most. Either way when you are dealing with a woman you should make this a serious topic of discussion and then pay extreme attention to this. Don't be afraid to push the envelope here. Also, you will run into women who are naturally submissive, you have to watch this type because they can fool you.

By the way... the culture literally tells women to be dominant or equal to a man. So, this is a great test of what they actually believe.

2. Spiritually minded. Women that are happy to attend church. The ones that show up on Easter and Christmas only are a bad choice. You want someone who will be an encouragement to your faith, not a burden. Some women only like church for the social aspect so watch for this too. A spiritual woman will engage in bible study and read or study on her own time. Christians call this being "Equally Yoked".

3. Helper. It's important that a woman you choose be a helper to you. Think of the type of woman that will make you a lunch before you leave for work. Not all women help in the same way though. If she helps you fill out TPS reports for work, that can be just as good as ironing your clothes. Don't get caught up in the 1950's stereotype woman.

4. Children. This is just my opinion, but I've noticed that solid Christian women enjoy kids and family. You have to look pretty deep on this though. I know quite a few ladies who are good housewives and solid Christian women, but on some level resent the work they have to do for their kids. Hiking a mountain is hard work, but lots of people enjoy it and do it for fun. This should be the approach to caring for kids. Overly controlling women really struggle. I will say this... women who like kids often want to have lots of them. I suggest that this might be a way to determine. Ultimately it may remain unknown until you have one with her as I think most women don't know themselves how they will feel about it. I have noticed that women from large families tend to love kids more than ones from small families.

Last point on children. Careers for women are a tough subject. Know that across the board women find over 60% of their affair partners at work. I think that a good Christian woman will choose children over careers every time. I know some women I consider to be great that work 2 or 3 days a month. I recently saw a church implode after the church secretary got caught with the pastor. So, my suggestion is to have a woman who works less than 20 hours a week, or stays home. I know housewives tend to go crazy a bit... so you have to compensate for this by giving her some outlets. This is just my opinion and everyone is different.

5. Sexuality. This is a super tough one. I suggest you just talk about it with her in advance. If you are and aged out player... I think maybe be up front about it. If you are a virgin... I strongly suggest you find a girl that is the same. Some churches have lots of 30 something single moms. I'm not going to tell you that these women are unworthy, but lets just say they are significantly higher risk, and I don't even care what kind of sob story they give you. If they married an asshole at age 19 and divorced after a mess of a marriage, keep in mind she picked that guy, and thats likely what she is attracted to naturally. My suggestion is that you never marry a woman with more experience than yourself. I also suggest you marry a woman that can handle your libido. If you wind up in a sexless marriage, something is deadly wrong.

I want to say that even though I'm posting info on Christian women, anyone of any faith is welcome to jump in and provide any info. I'm including atheists in that because believing that there is nothing requires faith too.
 

Corleone

Newbie
EndsExpect said:
Since the forum is making a bit of a U-Turn, I think might be worthwhile for me to drop this information in the week before I go.

I'm going to say up front that I believe finding a Muslim or a Hindu wife is pretty easy, because those cultures seriously reinforce the religious teaching and make the women naturally higher quality.

This primary question comes from Christian guys who really struggle to find a woman in a culture that pushes females in the opposite direction of quality. So, I'm just going to put down my top observations here.

1. Submission. The Christian religion tells women to submit to their husbands as they would submit to God. If a woman won't submit to God... then she won't submit to you either. Notice the Bible doesn't say "submit to your husband if he is perfect or only when he is right"... it says always. I know women who have a very willful spirit, but are submissive to their husband. This is the type I like most. Either way when you are dealing with a woman you should make this a serious topic of discussion and then pay extreme attention to this. Don't be afraid to push the envelope here. Also, you will run into women who are naturally submissive, you have to watch this type because they can fool you.

By the way... the culture literally tells women to be dominant or equal to a man. So, this is a great test of what they actually believe.

2. Spiritually minded. Women that are happy to attend church. The ones that show up on Easter and Christmas only are a bad choice. You want someone who will be an encouragement to your faith, not a burden. Some women only like church for the social aspect so watch for this too. A spiritual woman will engage in bible study and read or study on her own time. Christians call this being "Equally Yoked".

3. Helper. It's important that a woman you choose be a helper to you. Think of the type of woman that will make you a lunch before you leave for work. Not all women help in the same way though. If she helps you fill out TPS reports for work, that can be just as good as ironing your clothes. Don't get caught up in the 1950's stereotype woman.

4. Children. This is just my opinion, but I've noticed that solid Christian women enjoy kids and family. You have to look pretty deep on this though. I know quite a few ladies who are good housewives and solid Christian women, but on some level resent the work they have to do for their kids. Hiking a mountain is hard work, but lots of people enjoy it and do it for fun. This should be the approach to caring for kids. Overly controlling women really struggle. I will say this... women who like kids often want to have lots of them. I suggest that this might be a way to determine. Ultimately it may remain unknown until you have one with her as I think most women don't know themselves how they will feel about it. I have noticed that women from large families tend to love kids more than ones from small families.

Last point on children. Careers for women are a tough subject. Know that across the board women find over 60% of their affair partners at work. I think that a good Christian woman will choose children over careers every time. I know some women I consider to be great that work 2 or 3 days a month. I recently saw a church implode after the church secretary got caught with the pastor. So, my suggestion is to have a woman who works less than 20 hours a week, or stays home. I know housewives tend to go crazy a bit... so you have to compensate for this by giving her some outlets. This is just my opinion and everyone is different.

5. Sexuality. This is a super tough one. I suggest you just talk about it with her in advance. If you are and aged out player... I think maybe be up front about it. If you are a virgin... I strongly suggest you find a girl that is the same. Some churches have lots of 30 something single moms. I'm not going to tell you that these women are unworthy, but lets just say they are significantly higher risk, and I don't even care what kind of sob story they give you. If they married an asshole at age 19 and divorced after a mess of a marriage, keep in mind she picked that guy, and thats likely what she is attracted to naturally. My suggestion is that you never marry a woman with more experience than yourself. I also suggest you marry a woman that can handle your libido. If you wind up in a sexless marriage, something is deadly wrong.

I want to say that even though I'm posting info on Christian women, anyone of any faith is welcome to jump in and provide any info. I'm including atheists in that because believing that there is nothing requires faith too.

This is an interesting topic for me, as I have some experiences in the past few years on this topic. And I am interested in responses too.

1. Submission- First, let me say that the church I have the most experience with, is in a very conservative area of the nation. This is important, as you'll soon see.

We had men's meetings before church most times. And we spoke of this issue. Lots of elders there, so it was interesting. It was said that "the reason young men get married is usually for the promise of adequate sex. But, we all learn differently" lol!

"And the woman marries for life/financial freedom/stability/quality family life".

When the subject or the book of Ephesians got mentioned in the full church setting, and esp/ on FB among men and women from our church, it was unbelievable how many of these women who seemed so Christian and nice, would get downright crappy about the mere mention of Ephesians. I found this particularly interesting.
And the women's responses got to be darkly humorous:whip:. Even and especially the older ones (55-85 year olds). I'm guessing you certainly wouldn't see this attitude in a Muslim place of worship! :exclamation:

I'm tired so that's all I'll say for now, but hope it brings some convo on this subject.
 
Quoting my post in another thread:

WalterBlack said:
Indian culture is very red-pill when it comes to choosing the ideal wife, here’s some bare basics of what a wife should be like. A lot of this stuff is universal to all Asian cultures.

  • She must be physically attractive, young, and of fertile age
  • She cannot be divorced - If she's had one divorce, she may be willing to go through another one
  • She cannot be a single mother – A man shouldn’t be raising somebody else’s kids
  • She shouldn’t smoke, drink or do drugs
  • She must respect her parents - a sign of class and good manners
  • Her parents are not divorced – If her parents are divorced, she might think about it too
  • Her siblings are not divorced - If any of her siblings are divorced, she might think about it too. They have to be in stable marriages.
  • She cooks and cleans for her family
  • She’s a virgin – this is to make sure she hasn’t ridden the cock carousel
  • She wants children and she’s willing to give up work to raise children – her career comes second to family life
  • She has good manners and is well spoken
  • She cannot come from a family where anybody has been to prison – this is a sign of shitty family
  • She must respect her future husband's close and extended family
  • She must always keep any issues with her future husband and family “in house”, and not gossip about it to others since this is disrespectful
  • She must treat her future husband well. Be nice to him and cook for him
  • She must treat any guests that come to the house well. Offer them drinks and food.
Ignoring the virgin requirement (which is almost impossible in this day and age) - how many western women could meet even half of the above?!

Did you notice that I made no mention of religion?

I'm of an Indian Hindu/Sikh background. Religion isn't really part of my life. There's a strong cultural pressure for women to be well behaved, because their bad behaviour would reflect badly upon the family. It's not forced on them by religion.

Just about all of my UK born and raised female cousins who got married had an arranged marriage with an Indian guy. They never dated before they married. None of them are religious as far as I know.

A lot of ostensibly religious women are hypocrites. I used to see a very religious Christian Korean-American, and she often slept over on a Saturday night before going to church on Sunday morning.
 

N°6

Ostrich
Bottom line is that cultures which make casual sex easy (especially for the top 20% of men), make pair bonding long term relationships very difficult - and vice versa.

To make things worse, more men in the bottom 80% risk long term inceldom and if they marry, won’t enjoy relationship security and could become suicidal broke incel divorcés.

Even if the influential top 20% of women who tend to be under 25 demanded marriage before sex thus abolishing the hook up culture, the usury system means that few men have the productive surplus to support a mother and children.

Many think the answer is with religious women but their Hypergamy is partly driven by their fathers who want them to marry well.
 

EndsExpect

Kingfisher
Corleone said:
This is an interesting topic for me, as I have some experiences in the past few years on this topic. And I am interested in responses too.
1. Submission- First, let me say that the church I have the most experience with, is in a very conservative area of the nation. This is important, as you'll soon see.
We had men's meetings before church most times. And we spoke of this issue. Lots of elders there, so it was interesting. It was said that "the reason young men get married is usually for the promise of adequate sex. But, we all learn differently" lol!
"And the woman marries for life/financial freedom/stability/quality family life".
When the subject or the book of Ephesians got mentioned in the full church setting, and esp/ on FB among men and women from our church, it was unbelievable how many of these women who seemed so Christian and nice, would get downright crappy about the mere mention of Ephesians. I found this particularly interesting.
And the women's responses got to be darkly humorous:whip:. Even and especially the older ones (55-85 year olds). I'm guessing you certainly wouldn't see this attitude in a Muslim place of worship! :exclamation:
I'm tired so that's all I'll say for now, but hope it brings some convo on this subject.

A woman who does not submit to her husband, is not submitting to God. That means she is an unbeliever and living in sin. There is no other way to see this.

There are many women who only follow the convenient parts of the Bible. You want to weed them out as much as possible. You also want to take women who have never really thought about this... and make them agree to following it.

Look, I have a lot of experience with Muslim women. They submit in some ways, but get super passive aggressive about shit. For example, they won't often cut a husband off from sex, but they will get themselves super fat and put zero effort into being attractive.

The guy who mentioned Hindu girls. These are great women overall, often from great families. If you are not Hindu... it's still worthwhile trying to marry and convert one... or if it's not a big deal... converting to follow her faith. You usually get a great set of in-laws in the deal. However, just keep in mind that these girls are just as hypergamous as others and if they marry a real low value beta loser... think some ugly, weak willed, tech worker, whose only big positive is making lots of money... these girls will have affairs at a high rate, especially in the West.
 
A woman who does not submit to her husband, is not submitting to God. That means she is an unbeliever and living in sin.

I disagree.

Man is a Sinner in the Eyes of a Holy God.

Romans 3:10, “As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one.”
Romans 3:23, “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.”

Since we are all sinners there's a price to be paid.

Romans 6:23, “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 5:12, “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.

Jesus paid that price by dying on the cross and shedding His blood; Christ was buried and bodily rose again the third day!

Romans 5:8, “But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.”
John 3:16, “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
1st Corinthians 15:1-4, “Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.”

If the women believes shes a sinner, believes Christ died for her sins, Christ was buried and rose on the third day shes a believer.

her submitting to her husband or not is irrelevant regarding her salvation.

From my experience your going to struggle finding a girl inside and outside of the church who is even a believer. alot of churches believe in lordship salvation and there is people girls/guys in those churches who don't believe in lordship salvation if you question them about it but the leaders sure do believe in it. most of the pastors who have TV time believe in the prosperity gospel which is a false gospel.

proverbs 31:10 msg A good woman is hard to find, and worth far more than diamonds.
proverbs 31:10 kjv A worthy woman who can find? For her price is far above rubies.
 
bobmjilica said:
Where do you find them, how do you screen them out, and how do you game them? I'm a young guy.

lol i really don't have a idea. last time i attended a church one of the girls there texted a family member of mine saying i was cute and asking how old was I. I don't even know if she's a believer to be honest with you.
None of my family attend church or believe in God which is unfortunate.
 

bobmjilica

Sparrow
WalterBlack said:
Quoting my post in another thread:

WalterBlack said:
Indian culture is very red-pill when it comes to choosing the ideal wife, here’s some bare basics of what a wife should be like. A lot of this stuff is universal to all Asian cultures.

  • She must be physically attractive, young, and of fertile age
  • She cannot be divorced - If she's had one divorce, she may be willing to go through another one
  • She cannot be a single mother – A man shouldn’t be raising somebody else’s kids
  • She shouldn’t smoke, drink or do drugs
  • She must respect her parents - a sign of class and good manners
  • Her parents are not divorced – If her parents are divorced, she might think about it too
  • Her siblings are not divorced - If any of her siblings are divorced, she might think about it too. They have to be in stable marriages.
  • She cooks and cleans for her family
  • She’s a virgin – this is to make sure she hasn’t ridden the cock carousel
  • She wants children and she’s willing to give up work to raise children – her career comes second to family life
  • She has good manners and is well spoken
  • She cannot come from a family where anybody has been to prison – this is a sign of shitty family
  • She must respect her future husband's close and extended family
  • She must always keep any issues with her future husband and family “in house”, and not gossip about it to others since this is disrespectful
  • She must treat her future husband well. Be nice to him and cook for him
  • She must treat any guests that come to the house well. Offer them drinks and food.
Ignoring the virgin requirement (which is almost impossible in this day and age) - how many western women could meet even half of the above?!

Did you notice that I made no mention of religion?

I'm of an Indian Hindu/Sikh background. Religion isn't really part of my life. There's a strong cultural pressure for women to be well behaved, because their bad behaviour would reflect badly upon the family. It's not forced on them by religion.

Just about all of my UK born and raised female cousins who got married had an arranged marriage with an Indian guy. They never dated before they married. None of them are religious as far as I know.

A lot of ostensibly religious women are hypocrites. I used to see a very religious Christian Korean-American, and she often slept over on a Saturday night before going to church on Sunday morning.

In order for the virgin requirement to be checked off the girl would probably have to be young. I'm under 20 years old, and I'm not sure how many girls are between 18-20 that are virgins (I assume the number is pretty low, but not as low as it is for girls who have already graduated college). The prime age for girls to marry is college age, but unfortunately most of the ones with a good family are at university and have no time for a relationship with the intent on marriage.
 
bobmjilica said:
WalterBlack said:
Quoting my post in another thread:

WalterBlack said:
Indian culture is very red-pill when it comes to choosing the ideal wife, here’s some bare basics of what a wife should be like. A lot of this stuff is universal to all Asian cultures.

  • She must be physically attractive, young, and of fertile age
  • She cannot be divorced - If she's had one divorce, she may be willing to go through another one
  • She cannot be a single mother – A man shouldn’t be raising somebody else’s kids
  • She shouldn’t smoke, drink or do drugs
  • She must respect her parents - a sign of class and good manners
  • Her parents are not divorced – If her parents are divorced, she might think about it too
  • Her siblings are not divorced - If any of her siblings are divorced, she might think about it too. They have to be in stable marriages.
  • She cooks and cleans for her family
  • She’s a virgin – this is to make sure she hasn’t ridden the cock carousel
  • She wants children and she’s willing to give up work to raise children – her career comes second to family life
  • She has good manners and is well spoken
  • She cannot come from a family where anybody has been to prison – this is a sign of shitty family
  • She must respect her future husband's close and extended family
  • She must always keep any issues with her future husband and family “in house”, and not gossip about it to others since this is disrespectful
  • She must treat her future husband well. Be nice to him and cook for him
  • She must treat any guests that come to the house well. Offer them drinks and food.
Ignoring the virgin requirement (which is almost impossible in this day and age) - how many western women could meet even half of the above?!

Did you notice that I made no mention of religion?

I'm of an Indian Hindu/Sikh background. Religion isn't really part of my life. There's a strong cultural pressure for women to be well behaved, because their bad behaviour would reflect badly upon the family. It's not forced on them by religion.

Just about all of my UK born and raised female cousins who got married had an arranged marriage with an Indian guy. They never dated before they married. None of them are religious as far as I know.

A lot of ostensibly religious women are hypocrites. I used to see a very religious Christian Korean-American, and she often slept over on a Saturday night before going to church on Sunday morning.

In order for the virgin requirement to be checked off the girl would probably have to be young. I'm under 20 years old, and I'm not sure how many girls are between 18-20 that are virgins (I assume the number is pretty low, but not as low as it is for girls who have already graduated college). The prime age for girls to marry is college age, but unfortunately most of the ones with a good family are at university and have no time for a relationship with the intent on marriage.

then the girl isn't the right girl if shes more interested in a career than having kids.

your going to struggle i think. thank God for this forum and its new rules. Maybe we can all get wifes.
 

DeusVult

Sparrow
I got very blessed, met a filipina whom I married, on catholic match.

It helped that I am half Filipino.

I only wanted huwhyte women, then I met the love of my life.
 

EndsExpect

Kingfisher
IAMSEXY said:
A woman who does not submit to her husband, is not submitting to God. That means she is an unbeliever and living in sin.

I disagree.

Man is a Sinner in the Eyes of a Holy God.
Since we are all sinners there's a price to be paid.
Jesus paid that price by dying on the cross and shedding His blood; Christ was buried and bodily rose again the third day!

If the women believes shes a sinner, believes Christ died for her sins, Christ was buried and rose on the third day shes a believer.
her submitting to her husband or not is irrelevant regarding her salvation.

You may believe this if you like, but to my thinking this is incorrect doctrine. I do not disagree that Christians are saved by faith, but if that faith show nothing or produces nothing... then it is a lie.

James 2:18 - "18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without [a]your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? "

Matthew 7:16 - "You will know them by their fruits."

The interplay between faith and works is somewhat complicated and most denominations have simply chosen one or the other.

If I sit with a woman who balks at submitting to her husband, you can say without question that her faith is dead. If she agrees that submission is required, but struggles to do so... then her faith is alive. As Jesus said, a good tree bears good fruit, and a bad tree bears bad fruit.

This is an important point for most men. They should emphasize it and not back down from it, because as I pointed out before it requires a woman to set aside her pride, give up control, and is in clear contrast to feminist teaching.

I should also mention that Feminists are False Prophets. Following their teaching is not really something a Christian woman can do, while also maintaining her faith.
 

bucky

Ostrich
bobmjilica said:
Where do you find them, how do you screen them out, and how do you game them? I'm a young guy.

As far as the US, I don't know. Over on Vox Day's forum I occasionally see guys swearing that you can still find many white girls who are good marriage material in some areas in the US, but I have yet to see it myself.

If you do end up overseas in EE or Latin America one day, I recommend skipping the night clubs and debauchery and hitting church on Sunday. That's what I did when I working in Central America a few years ago. More because I don't drink and find night clubs depressing, not because I was actively looking for a wife. Still, I did end up meeting a Christian girl and marrying her. She's Catholic, but I imagine Evangelical churches would work if that's more your thing. Mass always seemed to be about 2/3 female, many of them young and cute.
 

StrikeBack

Ostrich
Gold Member
EndsExpect posted a good list there.

I met my wife at a ball, but she was actually in the process of leaving her church due to the overwhelming Churchianity (my description, not hers). The last straw that made her really consider it was a Bible study session on wifely submission where she was the only one who thought that Scripture is absolutely clear on it and women should obey it without further questions, while all other women there found excuses against it.

On the other points, my wife wants to be (and is) my helper (nothing makes her happier), wants lots of children (our first is now just a couple of months old) and was a virgin when we met.

She is a Godly woman and follows me 100%, but I would have never found her in a church, and I had tried for many many years, and neither would have she found me there.

Here are alternative places for you to find a good religious woman:

- Dance balls (the "clean" ones, not the sexy latin type)
- Charity fundraisers
- Farmers markets
- Arts and crafts markets or festivals
- Live music nights (or days) at social clubs where there are old people. There are always a few young girls around who are old souls.

Ultimately the religious part isn't that important when you first meet the girl. You look for a feminine, submissive young woman that you can lead and mould into your wife and mother of your children. If she is not yet religious, you can always lead her to Christ. A Churchian who doesn't want to submit will never follow you anywhere, even if she seems to tick all the boxes of a religious wife. My friend married one and the first thing he got was tickets to a relationship and marriage workshop to be taught how to be "complementarians". Readers of Dalrock would know what that means.
 

Distant Light

Kingfisher
Gold Member
Set the example...
1...Devout yourself to your god
2...Never fap again
3...Go MGTOW, never think about women again and let god do his magic
4...If god brings a girl, lead with god 1st & screen hard

Some blogger chick once did a 30 dates in 30 days with a guy. It could be a good way to screen for a woman willing to go the religious path. Realistically you can't control outcomes of her having sex elsewhere or masturbating...However as religious follower you learnt she isnt the one.

Best bet find a girl with libido issues or near menopause...Also peel back the superficial looks aspect..Seek god fearing women regardless how she look as it is about UNION, accept you may never have sex again other than for children purposes.

...Perfect wife might be a nun & adopt
 
StrikeBack said:
churchianity

I tried to up vote your post twice because yes, churches are a club, a Sun Day-time version of a club, and I'm not meaning that in a derogatory way. I'm looking at it from a social dynamics point of view...

It is a social club like any other with it's own *social* rules, music styles, dress codes, cliques, performers, players, profiteers and so on.

Game is game and red pill is red pill (cliche words but accurate), they apply to and within churchianity too.

You want to be the leader of men, classic Mystery school style (PUA, not fraternity)?

BE THE PRIEST. Be the head of the bible study group... etc. It's just another angle, carry on as usual, KNOW that ALL women are like that under the right circumstances.
 

StrikeBack

Ostrich
Gold Member
^^ that's definitely the case too, but it's not why I refer to it as Churchianity (that's from Dalrock blog). It's because many modern churches have kinda abandoned the real Christianity and substituted it with a feminised version that is addictive to frumpy women and poorly socialised men, enabling the women to rebel openly against God's command to submit to their husbands, to not preach to men at church etc. They love quoting Scripture nonstop and speaking in tongues as if it makes them better believers, while living none of that outside of church.
 
StrikeBack said:
abandoned the real Christianity

////

They love quoting Scripture nonstop and speaking in tongues as if it makes them better believers, while living none of that outside of church.

That's what I mean. It's a club. Quoting shit is one of the activities. And the more you (they) know, the higher you are in the social pecking order of Churchianity leetness. All clubs based on skills and knowledge work this way.

Here's the thing about God: it's real simple!
 
Top