Finding a wife according to Christanity

joe40

Pigeon
Other Christian
Truth is we have really no solution for the courtship question. All the stopgap concepts, that have been developed in the manosphere were basically in line with the general trajectory of society's decline, regardless if one decided to collect notches at home or got to a third world melting pot to replicate something more tradcon. These times are over with the rape and covid narratives taking over, restricting what you can do.

For having useful advice it's essential to discard concepts, that don't work (anymore), otherwise it's just another pile of blue pills. We have young men who come back empty just like my generation did decades ago before figuring out the red pill, but now we have a much larger problem at hand, which needs to be figured out as well.
 

AHaytch

Sparrow
Non-Christian
The idea that the entire human race is a characterless melting pot with any woman being interchangeable with any other woman, regardless of religion, cultural, race etc sounds like the globalist narrative. It amounts to telling people that religion/culture/race are all irrelevant. It's not like the only purpose in life is to get married at any cost, even if its with someone with whom you can't identify.
Indeed. But it's a non sequitur of a statement as I never implied that.

Religion is not limited to colour. The poster is entitled to his racial preferences regardless, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who read into it: "well, I can't get a partner here, so I give up. I don't think I'll try anything else anyway."

In my religion: marriage is duty-bound. It is absolutely necessary, not a wistful happenstance kind of thing, which perhaps explains my impatience I suppose.
 

Blade Runner

Hummingbird
Orthodox
In my religion: marriage is duty-bound. It is absolutely necessary, not a wistful happenstance kind of thing, which perhaps explains my impatience I suppose.
But it will be as muslims increasingly (and they are) become ignorant and irreverent of their "faith." That is happening in most of the first world immigrant countries and even in the old country 3rd worlds. Let's be frank: it's far more about the degree of wealth, just like it is for anyone else in all the cultures. The euros were just best at creating wealth and innovation, thus we see now what we see when other parasites add to the problem.
 

JuanChristophorus

Sparrow
Trad Catholic
What is your age (range)?

Perhaps the certain issue is that the few that are interested don't have much physical and/or are chubby or fat. I think most around here would say that the rate limiting step since obesity is so high, is the physical part of initial attraction. Fair?
No. Beautiful or at least above average. These girls were outliers (not outsiders) and had an exceptional character. Like attracts the like. It is not hard to understand. If you are good looking and virtuous, the same kind of girls will be attracted to you.
 

JuanChristophorus

Sparrow
Trad Catholic
Can you prove this assertion or is this your opinion? Your choice of words seems greatly exaggerated to me.

What is the quality of the women? Is this the equivalent of going on a dating app and getting several likes of which 5% are quality?

I was surprised that many Trad Catholics were on Catholic match and some seemed attractive as well. I question why they made that choice if these youth groups worked.

People also ignore that some people have NO INTEREST in dating within these groups as your life and history is an open book to everyone in that group.
I'm not talking about youth groups. The best girls I've met were not in church/secular but retained their virgnity. It seems exaggerated because you are cynical and pessimistic. You want to quantify social interactions instead of just relaxing and accepting of what they are and what is coming to you. Either you take my word for it or don't. It is not my job to make you believe. What I said comes from my experience. If you don't want to grow in virtue and remain in disbelief that actually good women exist, that's on you.
 

joe40

Pigeon
Other Christian
Religion is not limited to colour. The poster is entitled to his racial preferences regardless, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who read into it: "well, I can't get a partner here, so I give up. I don't think I'll try anything else anyway."

Over here we don't need to try to get married as hard as possible to serve a religion. As a native European I also know the phenomenon of Muslims importing women from their homeland, because they prefer them for marriage. Which makes it look like hypocrisy.

In my religion: marriage is duty-bound. It is absolutely necessary

The New Testament says it's good for a man to not touch a woman. Unmarried single is the preferred default. Then makes concessions to people unable to deal with lust and sets the framework for that - distinctly different from Muslim polygamy.
 

TheosisSeeker

Robin
Orthodox Catechumen
I'm not talking about youth groups. The best girls I've met were not in church/secular but retained their virgnity. It seems exaggerated because you are cynical and pessimistic. You want to quantify social interactions instead of just relaxing and accepting of what they are and what is coming to you. Either you take my word for it or don't. It is not my job to make you believe. What I said comes from my experience. If you don't want to grow in virtue and remain in disbelief that actually good women exist, that's on you.

What is your age range and have you married one of these women?
 

joe40

Pigeon
Other Christian
Jesus did not marry. He also spoke positively about those who remain celibate “for the sake of the kingdom of heaven” (Mt 19:12). Indeed, Jesus chose, from among his followers, certain men to be with him and become “fishers of men” (Mt 4:19; Mk 1:17). His invitation to them was to leave everything behind for the sake of the kingdom of God. Therefore, this practice of total dedication to God in and through Christ goes back to the very beginning of discipleship. Today as well, men are chosen by God to “to consecrate themselves with undivided heart to the Lord” (CCC, No. 1579).

However this thread is about a Muslim asking about the church actively helping men with finding a wife, while I could only offer examples of the church trying but failing to do so, not because I'm biased, but because these have been my only observations so far and I would be happy to report otherwise. Making it about a "chad drawing women with his moral superiority", about race and moving to third world countries is derailing it.
 

BasilSeal

Kingfisher
Catholic
Gold Member
As a non-Catholic, please do not cherry pick Bible passages to share an incorrect view of sacramental Catholic vocations. The catechism on this topic is clear, and complete.

1620 Both the sacrament of Matrimony and virginity for the Kingdom of God come from the Lord himself. It is he who gives them meaning and grants them the grace which is indispensable for living them out in conformity with his will. Esteem of virginity for the sake of the kingdom and the Christian understanding of marriage are inseparable, and they reinforce each other:

Whoever denigrates marriage also diminishes the glory of virginity. Whoever praises it makes virginity more admirable and resplendent. What appears good only in comparison with evil would not be truly good. The most excellent good is something even better than what is admitted to be good.
 

JuanChristophorus

Sparrow
Trad Catholic
As a non-Catholic, please do not cherry pick Bible passages to share an incorrect view of sacramental Catholic vocations. The catechism on this topic is clear, and complete.
What we can conclude is, that Calvinist Joe knows everything better, and that he's not Chad. A true Chad never drags down his comrades.
 

Blade Runner

Hummingbird
Orthodox
What we can conclude is, that Calvinist Joe knows everything better, and that he's not Chad. A true Chad never drags down his comrades.
I'm not necessarily defending @joe40 , nor do I disbelieve you, but we've asked twice now in what age range (you don't have to be specific) you are, and you haven't even answered that.

Juan, you make the claim that there are a good number (or a lot, I don't know) of women who are high quality both morally and physically, and the numbers just don't bear that out. What's more, it's generally a conundrum for reasons the forum states all the time - DQ girls from marriage and courting in their 20s generally speaking, and you get less attractive girls across the board as wives (they get old, quick). The stats aren't on your side, I've crunched the numbers. No, I'm not a .1% in looks, so if that is what you are getting at, it's sorta meaningless too. Most of the professional model guy types, by the way, typically don't have this high morality spectrum at this point, either - not by a longshot. What you claim just doesn't fit.
 

TheosisSeeker

Robin
Orthodox Catechumen
I could've but I waited too long.

Let me outline why many of us are skeptical. You make a claim that there are many of these women and if you are a man of high moral character they will, in essence, throw themselves at you. (Women rarely if ever do this, even for top men, but let's go with it)

You claim this is from your personal experience. Yet you have not succeeded in marrying one. Do you see how your story doesn't make sense?

Your use of 4chan larping terms like 'being a Chad' doesn't help your argument either.

You do have one point which in my mind is valid, and that is that like tends to attract like. If you surround yourself with virtuous women who value a man of good moral standing, then your odds increase.

Our argument is...these woman are few and far between in a toxic culture.

Unfortunately from your posts I can conclude that you are either young and naive or are living in a vastly different environment from the rest of us.

It's more than possible that you are mistaking perception for reality. That those women that you perceive as being pure may not be at all.
 

JuanChristophorus

Sparrow
Trad Catholic
I'm not necessarily defending @joe40 , nor do I disbelieve you, but we've asked twice now in what age range (you don't have to be specific) you are, and you haven't even answered that.
I want to share my data here as little as possible. I don't see how you can profit from knowing my age but I can see how you could benefit from knowing it form the girls I referred to. Either I tell you my age and you judge me as experienced (likely not) or as inexperienced idealist, or I refrain from it and you judge from face value.

The additional information gives you a sense of security or more reasons to doubt. I did not say that there is a good number of girls that are virtuous and chaste. To the contrary, I said there are times of prolonged loneliness if you don't compromize on your standards, which means that the amount of girls you meet like this in, let's say, two years, is in the single digits.

EDIT: Also, you are too preoccupied with quantifying that which is not quantifiable. I mean, you can, but what does it benefit you? Instead of looking at others, why not be who you are supposed to be?

Your use of 4chan larping terms like 'being a Chad' doesn't help your argument either.
I use it to simplify because everyone here understands what a Chad is. Replace "Chad" with well-adjusted man who loves his neighbor and you have the same meaning
Unfortunately from your posts I can conclude that you are either young and naive or are living in a vastly different environment from the rest of us.
I am not young young. I had the luck of being at the right place at the right time with the proper mindset. Whenever I walked the path towards God, He put things in order and the women I talk about appeared sooner or later. The thing is I started to become virtuous without any attachment, not with the expectation "God gibs me wife. God gibs me good job. I will go to heaven." Doing it because it is the right thing to do and because you love God. Several years passed and there have been ups and downs. By identifying the patterns I give you advice what has been said by many other men in different words. I leave it at that.
It's more than possible that you are mistaking perception for reality. That those women that you perceive as being pure may not be at all.
If that feeds into your cynicism, be my guest. I used to be pessimistic to the core but overcame it. At the end of the day, you put too much judgement into an internet-persona than addressing the gist of the message.

These girls were younger than the critical age (not older than 25). Girls past the age of 26/27 are in mental hell.
 
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Blade Runner

Hummingbird
Orthodox
These girls were younger than the critical age (not older than 25). Girls past the age of 26/27 are in mental hell.
Ok, I have no problem with your not sharing. I asked, you answered enough for me to know, anyway. This quote is obviously the major clue.

Who you are dealing with here mostly are 30s-40s guys in the west who don't have the social occasion or generally the circumstances (beyond cultural cockblocking) to meet 25s and under, generally speaking. Of course, the lotto is always there and possible, but it's a ... lotto. If you are and have been physically active and fit, successful in your career, intelligent/not stupid, try to be faithful to God, etc. and are a normal healthy man to boot, why would you be interested in aged women? That's our point.

As a result, I don't know what we disagree on.
 

JuanChristophorus

Sparrow
Trad Catholic
Who you are dealing with here mostly are 30s-40s guys in the west who don't have the social occasion or generally the circumstances (beyond cultural cockblocking) to meet 25s and under, generally speaking.
I know, this is why I can tell you only from my experience and not from your POV.
Of course, the lotto is always there and possible, but it's a ... lotto. If you are and have been physically active and fit, successful in your career, intelligent/not stupid, try to be faithful to God, etc. and are a normal healthy man to boot, why would you be interested in aged women? That's our point.
It is still quantifying: "If I do XYZ something will come out of it". That's the wrong approach. Be as detached from everything as you can and beyond. You will stop caring and things will fall into place. Maybe you won't get a woman, maybe you never will, and this is a thought you have to accept. I am by far not a Don Juan and my age and looks help very little. I don't think the US is that bad given how diverse the cultures are throughout the country, especially some places in the Midwest. Being preoccupied with the woman-question doesn't help you. The loneliness can get crippling at times and you have to gnash your teeth together roll with it. Something will come along, maybe not in the way you imagine it but something wil come.
why would you be interested in aged women? That's our point.
You mustn't be and I did not imply that.
 

vstk

Robin
Catholic
If you are and have been physically active and fit, successful in your career, intelligent/not stupid, try to be faithful to God, etc. and are a normal healthy man to boot, why would you be interested in aged women?
I'm afraid if you met them ladies in the 18-24 age bracket you'd probably ask yourself why bother at all.
 
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