Church Finnish Church may implement Gluten-free Eucharist

[tractor]

Finnish Church to appeal to Constantinople about gluten-free Eucharist for celiacs

The hierarchs previously discussed the matter in February, and instructed Fr. John Lampropoulos to study the stance and practice of the Church of Greece.

orthochristian.com

The Bishops’ Council of the Finnish Orthodox Church (Patriarchate of Constantinople) met on October 13 in Helsinki under the chairmanship of Archbishop Leo of Helsinki and All Finland, discussing, among other things, the issue of people who suffer from celiac disease receiving Holy Communion.

The hierarchs previously discussed the matter in February, and instructed Fr. John Lampropoulos to study the stance and practice of the Church of Greece.

“Those who suffer from celiac disease cannot commune of the Body of Christ at the Eucharist due to their intolerance to wheat protein. Those who suffer from an acute form cannot commune of the Blood of Christ either, because it could also contain particles of wheat flour,” the Finnish Church wrote in its February report.

In his presentation at the session earlier this month, Archbishop Leo reported that having studied the issue, Fr. John reported back that the Greek Church has no developed position on the matter. The bioethicist Metropolitan Nikolaos of Mesogaia and Lavreotiki told him that it is a canonical issue and that it requires an appeal to the Canonical Department of the Holy Synod of the Patriarchate of Constantinople.

Thus, Abp. Leo will appeal to Constantinople for a resolution to the matter.

As OrthoChristian previously reported, at least one hierarch of Constantinople has addressed the matter before.

On May 1, 2018, Metropolitan Isaiah of Denver of the Greek Archdiocese of America (Patriarchate of Constantinople) issued an encyclical to his priests and parishioners after hearing of a number of cases where people approached the chalice and asked to be communed only of the Blood of Christ, believing that the Body would harm them.

He responded:

If there are Orthodox Christians in our parishes who believe that, after the Holy Spirit consecrates the Bread and the Wine during the Divine Liturgy, the gifts are still bread and wine, they should never again receive the divine Body and Blood again, until they believe that the holy sacrament of our Lord Himself is His spiritual presence, that is, both His Body and His Blood.

… And, if the doctor's instructions to them about not eating the Body (bread) because of the doctor's medical knowledge are considered more important than the Holy Eucharist, then they should not receive the Holy Eucharist of the Lord, unless or until they believe that the Creator of all has more knowledge regarding eternal life than all the medical science of this fallen world.

Thoughts?

 

[Prores]

Metropolitan Isaiah gave a great response. The only way Holy Eucharist is going to damage you is if you partake unworthily.

 

[Pantheon]

Once again, the hyper-sensitive spirit of the age manifests itself. Just because "someone" might be allergic towards something, everyone should adjust themselves to anomalies. The periphery eats the center. Why do I recognize this pattern?

 

[tractor]

I know more people who had the "deadly" covid than this fancy celiac disease that no-one had hundred years ago despite the bread consumption.

MEtropolitan Isaiah gave indeeed a great response. Add to that the vulnerability to lawsuits if some priest forgets which parishioner should get which bread.

 

[josemiguel]

I get severe reactions to gluten, and have two friends with celiac disease. Each of us are amazed every time we commune because we don't have any reaction. This is tangible experiential evidence to me that the Eucharist in the Orthodox Church is indeed the Eucharist as the Church teaches.

 

[MichaelWitcoff]

I have a friend with severe celiac who communes with wine only. He cannot touch any bread at all or he gets an intense reaction.

 

[Mike Contro Rossi]

Finnish Church to appeal to Constantinople about gluten-free Eucharist for celiacs

The hierarchs previously discussed the matter in February, and instructed Fr. John Lampropoulos to study the stance and practice of the Church of Greece.

orthochristian.com

Thoughts?

The Finnish "Orthodox" Church under the EP is notoriously liberal and heretical.

 

[coldpillow]

Seems odd.

But then again, doesn't the Eucharist transform into the body of Christ anyway? Is God gonna look down on people and say "no you must eat Eucharist with gluten in it!!!!!" I have my doubts

 

[Pantheon]

The Finnish "Orthodox" Church under the EP is notoriously liberal and heretical.

We can thank Western Russophobia for this. Finland was a part of Sweden for so long it unfortunately became too Lutheran and Scandinavian in the process, which seems to affect its remaining Orthodox minority in all the wrong ways.

 

[DanielH]

Silly... just commune a crumb of the body, but I personally don't believe a large portion would hurt them except for the exception Metropolitan Isaiah mentioned.

 

[Mike Contro Rossi]

It's the Body and Blood of Christ.

 

[MichaelWitcoff]

It's the Body and Blood of Christ.

Yes, but it doesn't cease to also be bread and wine.

 

[Penitent]

Metropolitan Isaiah's statement is theologically incorrect. Although the bread and wine become the body and blood of Christ, they remain in the form of bread and wine. Some people with celiac disease find that they are able to tolerate the Eucharist, while others are unable to. They will either have to abstain from communion or receive only the wine.

 

[Mike Contro Rossi]

It doesn't cease to be bread and wine but it cannot hurt you, unless you commune unrepentant. We're not consubstantionists, like Anglicans and Lutherans. Otherwise, we shouldn't be opposed to believing the Eucharist can make you sick, or using multiple spoons because of the Coof, and other such abominations.

 

[Penitent]

Let me break it down this way.

Situation A: A person with celiac communes of the Eucharist - both bread and wine - and he has a stomach ache for 3-4 days afterwards. Besides these symptoms he is not otherwise sick. This happens consistently. Every time. By the way, it is the exact same symptoms that this person would notice if he happened to accidentally eat a cracker made of wheat.

Situation B: The same person comes to communion and the priest takes some of the wine out of the chalice before placing in the bread, so as to commune this person separately. The communicant does not get sick, does not experience any of the above symptoms, does not die.

Assume that regardless of the presence or absence of bread when he communicates that he is living out his repentance in the same fashion.

If this person were communing unworthily in situation A, why would God make him sick with the exact same symptoms that he gets if he eats the cracker? Wouldn't it make sense for the sake of his salvation to show this by making him sick in some other way? We know people who have gone through this by trial and error. To say this person is unrepentant is uncharitable.

I know some people hold to the opinion that the presence of bread in the Eucharist can not make somebody sick, and thats ok. There are some areas of Orthodoxy where things are not entirely clear, and there are disagreements. For example, there is the issue of vaccines. Our hierarchs are divided on whether the use of aborted fetal cell lines in the making of the vaccine preclude Christians from taking the vaccine. I guess we just need to figure out how to live peacefully with each other while holding different opinions.

 

[Mike Contro Rossi]

Let me break it down this way.

Situation A: A person with celiac communes of the Eucharist - both bread and wine - and he has a stomach ache for 3-4 days afterwards. Besides these symptoms he is not otherwise sick. This happens consistently. Every time. By the way, it is the exact same symptoms that this person would notice if he happened to accidentally eat a cracker made of wheat.

Situation B: The same person comes to communion and the priest takes some of the wine out of the chalice before placing in the bread, so as to commune this person separately. The communicant does not get sick, does not experience any of the above symptoms, does not die.

Assume that regardless of the presence or absence of bread when he communicates that he is living out his repentance in the same fashion.

If this person were communing unworthily in situation A, why would God make him sick with the exact same symptoms that he gets if he eats the cracker? Wouldn't it make sense for the sake of his salvation to show this by making him sick in some other way? We know people who have gone through this by trial and error. To say this person is unrepentant is uncharitable.

I know some people hold to the opinion that the presence of bread in the Eucharist can not make somebody sick, and thats ok. There are some areas of Orthodoxy where things are not entirely clear, and there are disagreements. For example, there is the issue of vaccines. Our hierarchs are divided on whether the use of aborted fetal cell lines in the making of the vaccine preclude Christians from taking the vaccine. I guess we just need to figure out how to live peacefully with each other while holding different opinions.

Aborted fetal cell usage is a no Brainer, sorry.

 

[tractor]

I say this. I know that as a person blessed with the ability to enjoy bread without any adverse symptoms I may appear too harsh on the celiacs. But the thing is that making changes to crucial practices of the Church in order to accomodate a fringe group is a slippery slope. It's the same as pushing abortions with the argument "But you surely wouldn't be opposed to an abortion, if your 16 yo daughter were gang raped and conceived."

Also, it is similar to the line of reasoning when people talk about the vaxx. Christians are supposed to trust God and His plan (including facing death) instead of getting injected with a magic substance that buys you some more time in this world (according to science).

The question is whether we really believe in eternal life or not. If you 100% know that after you die, you end up in a much better place, isn't it the safest ticket to Heaven if you attend the Divine Liturgy, confess your sins, receive His Body and Blood and depart shortly after? If my faith is strong, I sign up right away.

 

[Roosh]

As a baker, I can say the way to lessen gluten is just to let the dough rise overnight (in the fridge) or for longer periods. Using this method, I have made pizza for a man who was gluten-sensitive, and he had no reaction to it, and my pizzas are about half a pound of bread. My guess is the baker of their prosphora is doing a quick 2-hour rise with a lot of yeast, so the gluten will be heavy.

 

[IM3000]

As a baker, I can say the way to lessen gluten is just to let the dough rise overnight (in the fridge) or for longer periods. Using this method, I have made pizza for a man who was gluten-sensitive, and he had no reaction to it, and my pizzas are about half a pound of bread. My guess is the baker of their prosphora is doing a quick 2-hour rise with a lot of yeast, so the gluten will be heavy.

Not to derail here, but this is the issue with most industrialized bread. They add chemicals to aid the rise and prolong the shelf life which then can trigger allergy or intolerance. Only solution is to find an old school bakery or make the bread yourself.

 

[Yallbeparticular]

Let me break it down this way.

Situation A: A person with celiac communes of the Eucharist - both bread and wine - and he has a stomach ache for 3-4 days afterwards. Besides these symptoms he is not otherwise sick. This happens consistently. Every time. By the way, it is the exact same symptoms that this person would notice if he happened to accidentally eat a cracker made of wheat.

Situation B: The same person comes to communion and the priest takes some of the wine out of the chalice before placing in the bread, so as to commune this person separately. The communicant does not get sick, does not experience any of the above symptoms, does not die.

Assume that regardless of the presence or absence of bread when he communicates that he is living out his repentance in the same fashion.

If this person were communing unworthily in situation A, why would God make him sick with the exact same symptoms that he gets if he eats the cracker? Wouldn't it make sense for the sake of his salvation to show this by making him sick in some other way? We know people who have gone through this by trial and error. To say this person is unrepentant is uncharitable.

I know some people hold to the opinion that the presence of bread in the Eucharist can not make somebody sick, and thats ok. There are some areas of Orthodoxy where things are not entirely clear, and there are disagreements. For example, there is the issue of vaccines. Our hierarchs are divided on whether the use of aborted fetal cell lines in the making of the vaccine preclude Christians from taking the vaccine. I guess we just need to figure out how to live peacefully with each other while holding different opinions.

“Όπου Θεός βούλεται, νικάται φύσεως τάξις”. Opou Theos vouletai nikatai phiseos taxis. When God wills, the order of nature is defeated