First International Conference on Men’s Issues, Hosted By AVfM

[Sumanguru]

Just came across this on the Detroit reddit;

http://motorcitymuckraker.com/blog/...e-canceled-at-doubletree-in-downtown-detroit/

Apparently cancelled at the Doubletree location.

Goddammit.

Edit: BTW, from our favorite manboob.

http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/...-doubletree-says-they-are-not-booked-with-us/

UPDATE: Well, one thing’s a bit clearer now, though. I called the Detroit Police and they confirmed that the Doubletree did indeed report to them that it had received threats. Who sent them, we still don’t know, but I think we can all agree that whether the threats came from some misguided feminist or “progressive” or from an MRA trying to stir shit and make feminists look bad, whoever made the threatening calls is a shithead who deserves to face the legal consequences for what they did.

 

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

Funny how fast that lunatic manboobz was quick to change his name to wehuntedthemammoth once he was directly linked to a mass murderer. Incredible that he still has no problems proselytizing after that.

 

[TonySandos]

Share the wealth Eel.

If I see that guy trolling on twitter, I want to knight-block with some choice links or pics

 

[Mentavious]

Just came across this on the Detroit reddit;

http://motorcitymuckraker.com/blog/...e-canceled-at-doubletree-in-downtown-detroit/

Apparently cancelled at the Doubletree location.

edit-Nice war going in the comment section. One guy, Mikesomethingorother, simply has to be gay.

Do we know where it will be now?

 

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

Share the wealth Eel.

If I see that guy trolling on twitter, I want to knight-block with some choice links or pics

That info comes from here, but I see that no one's responded to the guy with a screenshot of that. Given how fast he renamed and "purged" his blog of incriminating stuff, it's no surprise. If there really was no connection between him and Elliot Rodger, there would be no reason for him to suddenly throw away all the accumulated linkage and google rankings.

I'd provide links to PUAhate threads in which Manboobz was mentioned as "an ally against a fellow enemy", but since PUAhate no longer exists I can't do that either. Maybe someone more internet savvy can help.

 

[iknowexactly]

Korben, I agree on those issues. But men's rights at its core is about promoting sexual equality, which is androgyny by another name. Men and women are different, and any effort to change that promotes ugliness, lies and discord. It's unfortunate that egalitarianism underlies the men's movement, but I suppose that's inescapable considering that people like me who are strongly opposed to sexual equality number even fewer.

With the abstract terms ( for me) like "androgyny", not sure what specific positions you take on specific, observable issues.

For me for instance, egalitarianism is good--if a pre-med girl gets a GPA of 3.8 and a boy pre-med gets a 3.8, shouldn't they both have an equal chance to get into med school?

Correct me if I'm wrong, it sounds like you are advocating discrimination against qualified women, even those who are equally qualified. I know where I work, most of the doctors are women, they do a good job. Besides that, any type of return-to-pre-1930s anti-female bias is about as politically likely as the Second Coming.

Besides the fact that I feel egalitarianism -- in the sense of equal opportunity for equal ability-- is a good foundation for a society-- there is the political reality that no one is going to go for anti-female crap like "women shouldn't go to college." because those guys think the women should be having kids.

The female doctors I know are much more similar to me and much smarter than most of the angry male guys I hear ranting against minorities and and women.

 

[KorbenDallas]

Iknowexactly,

That's a nice sentiment. I respect that, and at heart, agree with you. But logically, I've been persuaded it's ultimately a devastating position to take if you want your society/tribe/nation to last. An interesting article by Bill Price deals with the topic of egalitarianism.

Shakers: Then and Now
by W.F. PRICE on MAY 8, 2014
Contemporary feminists don’t often bring up the Shakers, an early, egalitarian feminist Quaker offshoot, but they are a highly relevant sect with an uncanny resemblance to feminists. Founded in the 18th century by a charismatic English priestess named Ann Lee, who subsequently emigrated to New York, the faith rose to some prominence and renown by the mid-19th century before dwindling almost to extinction in the 20th century. Today, three Shakers remain.

Ann Lee pioneered a form of goddess worship, and held herself out to be the second coming of Jesus — a component of a mixed-gender, quadrune God. Long before modern feminism, she enforced strict gender equality at every level of her church, communal ownership of property and ritualized purity. Shakers were known best for their bizarre form of worship, from which they derived their name. Shaker services featured ecstatic dances replete with speaking in tongues, rolling around on the ground and, at times, barking like dogs. However, despite their energetic religious expressions, Shakers were generally a sober, industrious people, and their settlements could be enormously productive. Even today, antique Shaker furniture, known for its rugged, tasteful simplicity, commands a high price, and the style is widely imitated.

So what became of the Shakers?

To put it simply, they just died off. One of the tenets of their faith was that marriage and sexual relations caused spiritual pollution, and that in order to achieve perfect equality men and women should be as brother and sister to each other rather than husband and wife. Furthermore, families were an impediment to the communal lifestyle, as parents naturally favored their children over the rest of the community. Mother Ann, the female incarnation of the messiah, therefore banned them outright.

Enforcing celibacy in mixed communities would seem to be an impossible task, but the Shakers set up a strict hierarchy of Elders and Eldresses and deacons and deaconesses to enforce the sexual prohibition. Shakers who spent time outside the community were interrogated upon their return. Outside visitors were held to strict rules, and much of the community was off-limits to them. On occasion, when young local men attempted to elope with Shaker girls, the “sisters” were known to have attacked and beaten them with mop and broom handles. Typical boys’ play, such as wrestling and playing ball, was prohibited, and close male friendship strongly discouraged, presumably to suppress masculinization. Eldresses employed spies to keep track of the whereabouts and activities of the young and lusty.

The result of this was that young Shakers, who could choose to leave at the age of 21, left in droves — especially the males. The retention rate was only 25%. Shaker numbers were augmented by accepting foundlings and poaching husbands or wives from nuclear families and keeping the children. This prompted a Kentucky law that permitted divorce on the grounds of a spouse joining a Shaker community, with property and child custody remaining with the non-Shaker parent.

So why, with all the difficulties caused by enforced celibacy, did the rule remain in effect? According to Shaker historian Glendyne R. Wergland, it was how Shakers maintained gender equality:

Celibacy was the key to Shaker equality. By eliminating marriage, Shakers eliminated the source of men’s traditional authority over women. Living as virgins, male and female alike, Believers diverged from mainstream traditions that valued women’s virginity but did not apply the same standard to men. The Shakers rejected the hypocritical double standard and established women;s equality by applying the same norm of chastity to men and women — and upheld it in practice as well as in theory. This study shows how women working together consolidated their gains, then expanded their power. Here, then, are examples of women serving in equality with men, women in partnership with men, and women in ascendancy over men. By the end of the nineteenth century, even outsiders recognized that Shaker society had become a gynocracy.

Perhaps, then, the price for gender equality is ultimately ethnic extinction, and this explains why patriarchy has always been the norm, and gynocracy the exception. This would also explain why major religions are invariably patriarchal, while female-oriented faiths, like Shakerism – and now the Episcopal Church – eventually die out.

However, more ominously today, it is not only some odd sects or cults that have adopted the Shakers’ values, but an entire political party, and indeed the secular orthodoxy that dominates the national narrative. Are Americans destined, under an equalist, gynocratic rule, to dwindle and die out? To the Shakers, that wouldn’t have been a tragedy; the equalist heavenly kingdom is not concerned with such trifles as the survival of peoples, as it is eternal. The rest of us, however, might do well to ask whether the destiny of our posterity concerns us, and if so, why we should allow today’s neo-Shakers so much power over its fate.

 

[runsonmagic]

Stage 6. Real world organizations form.

http://www.returnofkings.com/27956/the-8-stages-all-movements-go-through

I was tempted to go after I heard about the protests. All the best to them.

 

[Last Parade]

Just came across this on the Detroit reddit;

http://motorcitymuckraker.com/blog/...e-canceled-at-doubletree-in-downtown-detroit/

Apparently cancelled at the Doubletree location.

edit-Nice war going in the comment section. One guy, Mikesomethingorother, simply has to be gay.

I'm thinking the article's a fakeout since it's only this one article by this one guy that's being cited around the internet, a guy whose integrity has been called into question in the past.

(1) Nothing on the AVfM website even though Paul Elam posted a news item on there an hour ago

(2) Conference section on the AVfM website implying the conference is still there, and the Hilton website link still indicating as much too: http://doubletree.hilton.com/en/dt/...DTTLFDT-VFM-20140626/index.jhtml?WT.mc_id=POG if it got cancelled wouldn't that have changed...?

(3) this guy who claims he called the front desk of the hotel & they were unaware of it being cancelled.


Ideally the guy who wrote the article, Steve Neavling, saw an opportunity to use his journalistic privilege (heh) and wrote a clickbait article masked as news. Checking out other articles he's written, at least based on the comment count, shows this one is getting a gajillion times more traffic than his usual crap.

Spoiler alert: a quick google of the author's name implies the journalist is a complete fucking loser. Was fired 2 years ago and a few months ago someone was putting up posters of him and how he's a fraud (nice):

If I'm wrong so be it, but you'd expect to see something, anything, on the website of the people hosting the conference?

 

[Basil Ransom]

"For me for instance, egalitarianism is good--if a pre-med girl gets a GPA of 3.8 and a boy pre-med gets a 3.8, shouldn't they both have an equal chance to get into med school?"

Women doctors work fewer hours over a lifetime than men do. Does that warrant spending less to educate women? I'd say so, but above that, I'd say to minimize government and let private decisions naturally govern that sphere and most other spheres. Generally speaking, it is not necessary to discriminate specifically with regard to sex, but it is necessary to discriminate with regard to traits that are strongly sex linked. For instance, honest strength standards for firemen would exclude all women in practice. Sexual antidiscrimination laws are the surest way of promoting sexual discrimination, because the protected group will lobby for inclusion in spheres from which it is reasonably excluded (like firefighting) and will claim it was actually unreasonably excluded.

 

[Sumanguru]

Looks like it has been canceled at Doubletree.

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/...hts-group-cancels-conference-downtown-Detroit

“We have scheduled another venue and will make an announcement on the site this evening,” group founder Paul Elam said in an email Wednesday.

Still nothing on the AVfM webpage or Twitter though.

 

[Last Parade]

Damn Well, thanks for the 2nd news source, everyone disregard my previous post I guess.

Still very weird, I mean we're at two articles but one is sketchy and the other is based entirely on "an e-mail" she received from Paul Elam. I'm just picturing an imposter using e-mail spoofing to trick one journalist and impersonating Paul Elam on the phone to sucker a second journalist, but that's probably a stretch.

 

[runsonmagic]

AVFM responds - by changing venue:

http://www.avoiceformen.com/allbull...nal-conference-on-mens-issues-changing-venue/

The controversy increased ticket sales. Doubletree bailed. They got a new place to accommodate more people.

Witchhunt survived.

 

[Hotwheels]

The more noise the extreme feminists make the better for those men's cause.

Seriously, if they hadn't done anything this conference would have gone off with very few taking notice.

The bigger the shit storm the better for the MRA guys.

The juice is worth the squeeze.

 

[Roosh]

They are now hosting it at a veteran's lodge. Diabolical! Let's see feminists protest at the clubhouse of men who served their country.

 

[TonySandos]

The VFW is full of Vietnam era guys. They don't play that shit

 

[Sumanguru]

Can we all admit here that, even if some of us don't agree with the MRA agenda, that at least they've handled this Conference brilliantly?

 

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

Can we all admit here that, even if some of us don't agree with the MRA agenda, that at least they've handled this Conference brilliantly?

Don't put the cart before the horse.

 

[Sumanguru]

Credit where credit is due.

 

[Basil Ransom]

The VFW is a great idea. I'm guessing those places don't have much going and are yearning for relevance. Hope the conference goes well.