For non-gun bros: best weapon combination for self-defense?

[H1N1]

By the way, there's no law in France against carrying this in your backpack (an ice axe):

I think it'd be the best tool to carry in one's backpack, because it's legal, would frighten most muggers, and would (if the situation requires it, I mean, in self-defense) do serious damage - without having to train on how to use it (way to use it is instinctive).

If you'll forgive me being a little facetious, how would you deploy this? Once you were sure violence was inevitable, would you ask the bad guys to hold on a minute whilst you just reached into your backpack? It's a mean looking thing, and as you say, has the appeal of being legal, but if you can't actually get to it before the trouble goes down, you might as well be carrying your chocolate teapot for all the good it will do.

A good heirachy of needs for choosing a weapon in a country where concealed/open carry of firearms is illegal might be something like this:

Carriability - are you going to leave the house with it every single day, whether you are going to the cinema, the bank, or the shops? A degree of behaviour modification may be necessary to get a yes here (there is no weapon you will get past a seasoned bouncer other than perhaps a biro). If you can't take it everywhere you go, bar perhaps the airport, it is worthless to you, because dollars to donuts you won't be carrying it when you need it. If you are going to get stopped and cautioned because of the obvious bulge in your jacket, it is no good to you.

Deployability - so you'll carry it, and it will fit with your lifestyle. Can you get to it, and deploy it (expose the blade, extend the batton, disengage the safety valve) and take up your defensive/offensive position before your opponents are within their lethal range? If you can't, it's no use having it, and will be a distraction in a critical situation. Having both arms busy scrabbling when you get hit is not going to do your sentience any favours.

Effectiveness - is it capable of incapacitating with the first blow? You may not get a second shot at an attacker, or his mates may be closing in on you. Once you may the decision to use a weapon against another person, you need to make sure there are no half measures, and that you inflict maximum damage on first impact.

Usability - Firstly, do you have the stomach for it. Be honest with yourself. Many people will happily give you a tap on the head with a baton. Not so many will look in your eyes and gut you. Know what you have the stomach for ahead of time. You cannot afford to hesitate or re-evaluate at le moment critique (this point may also belong in the 'Game' section). Hesitation really is how you get yourself killed with your own weapon, and that will be embarrassing at your funeral, though perhaps it will discourage clapping, which is something.

Trainability - can you practice with it, and develop a few gross motor patterns that become ingrained in you, so that you can act without thinking should you need to. If you're using a knife, you should know what it is to bleed an animal and gut it. You do not want to be overwhelmed by horror the first time you ever draw blood in anger.

Legality - this has two aspects. Ideally whatever you chose should be legal. Ultimately though, you are unlikely to be bleeding out in the gutter patting yourself on the back for not having been silly enough to carry a bigger stick, and you will have to examine your own conscience here. Whatever you decide, you should be polite, respectful, and well turned out, so that you avoid trouble, and avoid coming into contact with the first responders of the legal system. The second aspect to legality is a consideration of how your weapon of choice will be viewed in court should you win. Blunt objects or objects used by the police are more likely to be treated kindly than sharp pointy things criminals hide in their bottoms. Again, this is a matter for personal reflection.

Affordability - if it looks good for all of the above, you should probably buy it. Avoid thinks that say 'tactical' or 'combat black' etc, as that never plays well with the powers that be. You are not a power ranger, you'll be just fine with something more discrete.

 

[MikeS]

By the way, there's no law in France against carrying this in your backpack (an ice axe):

I think it'd be the best tool to carry in one's backpack, because it's legal, would frighten most muggers, and would (if the situation requires it, I mean, in self-defense) do serious damage - without having to train on how to use it (way to use it is instinctive).

Leaving the scare factor out of the question here, there are some potentially big problems with weapons you can't deploy with a quick grab into your pocket.

And spring and summer time are probably the most tricky as roomy pockets are often in short supply.

I have a spring assisted folding knife with a blade that deploys in a split second with a quick press of the index finger. But given the legal complications here if you injure or kill someone in self defense, a knife is something I would prefer not to carry for self defense until a point where the local security situation seems to have taken a turn for the downright dangerous. Which is probably going to take rather longer here than in eg. Germany and Sweden since most of the invaders just pass through here on the way to richer targets.

I'm currently looking at tactical flashlights that can be used for both blinding and striking (eg. the 1000 lumen Fenix PD35).
Pepper spray may also be a possibility.

 

[Brian Shima]

Anyone here actually been attacked by a Muslim?

Are you Muslim by any chance? You made a comment before about a European leader secretly enjoying "muslim dick". Europeans have every right to be prepared for these savages and unfortanently attacks seem to be common.

Back on topic A small metal, skinny pipe. Keep it in a jacket or side of your boots..

 

[OGNorCal707]

Anyone here actually been attacked by a Muslim?

Are you Muslim by any chance? You made a comment before about a European leader secretly enjoying "muslim dick". Europeans have every right to be prepared for these savages and unfortanently attacks seem to be common.

Back on topic A small metal, skinny pipe. Keep it in a jacket or side of your boots..

No I'm not a Muslim, I don't follow any organized bull shit.

 

[blck]

Anyone here actually been attacked by a Muslim?

Are you Muslim by any chance? You made a comment before about a European leader secretly enjoying "muslim dick". Europeans have every right to be prepared for these savages and unfortanently attacks seem to be common.

Back on topic A small metal, skinny pipe. Keep it in a jacket or side of your boots..

Who is the mofoka frightening Dalaean dress at a muslim ?

EDIT: If Paris is thqt dangerous pack your bag and fly to lyon or marseille and have fun !

 

[Deepdiver]

Keep in mind that a lot of street crime is drugs motivated and a thug that is high on drugs may not feel a marshal arts blow or a knife or gun shot unless its a killing blow or shot - this is why so much of self defense is focused on disabling eyesight and breathing or both thus mace tear gas bear sprays and if illegal in your area powerful spray bottles with strong blinding household cleaners - of course acid or lighter fluid can cause permanent damage especially if you douse them in the face with lighter fluid and lite them up - however lighter fluid is legal along with a cigarette or cigar lighter and a pack of smokes to complete the ruse.

Instead of walking around oblivious to your surroundings with a $600 smart phone glued to your ear or eyeballs - leave it hidden until you get where you are going... a short smoke break gives you a chance to lean your back against a wall or light pole while doing a 360 sweep for hostiles without looking like a dodgy stalker yourself. Empty lighter fluid cans can be filled with gasoline or petrol which is just as much as an eye irritant and flames up much faster than slow burning lighter fluid. Three or four allahu wackbar attackers lit up like Joans of Arc will change their minds quickly and give you some time to get away.

In areas where roving bands of predators are present - mostly two or three men thugs teams as they are too greedy to split proceeds more than in half or a third - then the only thing besides a semi automatic 9MM that will work is comparable strength in numbers. Time to start a rod & gun fish & game club as cover for a local armed preppers militia - humans only have limited 180 degree peripheral vision and need two eyes to focus for depth perception so at least 3 to 5 men can cover 360 degrees left to right and up and down this is the optimal size for most small special operations teams.

Of course the most important thing is common sense and situation awareness as has been mentioned up thread - even Chris Rock has made jokes about ATMs being designed by thugs as they are open late at night, full of cash and you have to turn your back on the street when using one. Lots of crime increasing at self serve gasoline or petrol stations after dark as well ... use common sense and do your banking at lunch in broad daylight when you can go into a bank with security and gas up on the way back.

Sometimes just words alone work - I have in fact had people step up to me in Boston several times - at night usually they are cocked or looking for a fight - even got a sharp elbow by a suited up guy in line for coats when I just needed to get by to get to the mens room... My reply was "You must be a crazy little boy to phock with a man like me - why do you hate your mother so much? I am former military and you touch me again your mother will be going to your funeral tomorrow".

With someone cocked these deliberately shocking words will usually sober them up - with predatory thugs or druggies words are a waste of time and you have to go into immediate combat fight or flight mode to survive. That's why it is so important to avoid dodgy situations and locations in the first place - or bring your own crew or small trained army if in the EU.

 

[Going strong]

By the way, there's no law in France against carrying this in your backpack (an ice axe):

I think it'd be the best tool to carry in one's backpack, because it's legal, would frighten most muggers, and would (if the situation requires it, I mean, in self-defense) do serious damage - without having to train on how to use it (way to use it is instinctive).

If you'll forgive me being a little facetious, how would you deploy this? Once you were sure violence was inevitable, would you ask the bad guys to hold on a minute whilst you just reached into your backpack? It's a mean looking thing, and as you say, has the appeal of being legal, but if you can't actually get to it before the trouble goes down, you might as well be carrying your chocolate teapot for all the good it will do.

A good heirachy of needs for choosing a weapon in a country where concealed/open carry of firearms is illegal might be something like this:

Carriability - are you going to leave the house with it every single day, whether you are going to the cinema, the bank, or the shops? A degree of behaviour modification may be necessary to get a yes here (there is no weapon you will get past a seasoned bouncer other than perhaps a biro). If you can't take it everywhere you go, bar perhaps the airport, it is worthless to you, because dollars to donuts you won't be carrying it when you need it. If you are going to get stopped and cautioned because of the obvious bulge in your jacket, it is no good to you.

Deployability - so you'll carry it, and it will fit with your lifestyle. Can you get to it, and deploy it (expose the blade, extend the batton, disengage the safety valve) and take up your defensive/offensive position before your opponents are within their lethal range? If you can't, it's no use having it, and will be a distraction in a critical situation. Having both arms busy scrabbling when you get hit is not going to do your sentience any favours.

Effectiveness - is it capable of incapacitating with the first blow? You may not get a second shot at an attacker, or his mates may be closing in on you. Once you may the decision to use a weapon against another person, you need to make sure there are no half measures, and that you inflict maximum damage on first impact.

Usability - Firstly, do you have the stomach for it. Be honest with yourself. Many people will happily give you a tap on the head with a baton. Not so many will look in your eyes and gut you. Know what you have the stomach for ahead of time. You cannot afford to hesitate or re-evaluate at le moment critique (this point may also belong in the 'Game' section). Hesitation really is how you get yourself killed with your own weapon, and that will be embarrassing at your funeral, though perhaps it will discourage clapping, which is something.

Trainability - can you practice with it, and develop a few gross motor patterns that become ingrained in you, so that you can act without thinking should you need to. If you're using a knife, you should know what it is to bleed an animal and gut it. You do not want to be overwhelmed by horror the first time you ever draw blood in anger.

Legality - this has two aspects. Ideally whatever you chose should be legal. Ultimately though, you are unlikely to be bleeding out in the gutter patting yourself on the back for not having been silly enough to carry a bigger stick, and you will have to examine your own conscience here. Whatever you decide, you should be polite, respectful, and well turned out, so that you avoid trouble, and avoid coming into contact with the first responders of the legal system. The second aspect to legality is a consideration of how your weapon of choice will be viewed in court should you win. Blunt objects or objects used by the police are more likely to be treated kindly than sharp pointy things criminals hide in their bottoms. Again, this is a matter for personal reflection.

Affordability - if it looks good for all of the above, you should probably buy it. Avoid thinks that say 'tactical' or 'combat black' etc, as that never plays well with the powers that be. You are not a power ranger, you'll be just fine with something more discrete.

Then, only a telescopic baton meets your criteria, I think.

As to my ice-axe proposal, it could be useful in a (suburban RER) train-attack situation, which is (the train I mean) the most common place for a mugging, in France. I mean, muggers robbing people in a train wagon, you'd have time to see them coming and grab your ice-axe from your backpack, wouldn't you? Also, an ice-axe under a seat in your car might come in handy in case of, say, car-jacking...

 

[shameus_o'reaaly]

Are brass knuckles or stinger rings an effective weapon, or are they more like nunchucks?

 

[H1N1]

By the way, there's no law in France against carrying this in your backpack (an ice axe):

I think it'd be the best tool to carry in one's backpack, because it's legal, would frighten most muggers, and would (if the situation requires it, I mean, in self-defense) do serious damage - without having to train on how to use it (way to use it is instinctive).

If you'll forgive me being a little facetious, how would you deploy this? Once you were sure violence was inevitable, would you ask the bad guys to hold on a minute whilst you just reached into your backpack? It's a mean looking thing, and as you say, has the appeal of being legal, but if you can't actually get to it before the trouble goes down, you might as well be carrying your chocolate teapot for all the good it will do.

A good heirachy of needs for choosing a weapon in a country where concealed/open carry of firearms is illegal might be something like this:

Carriability - are you going to leave the house with it every single day, whether you are going to the cinema, the bank, or the shops? A degree of behaviour modification may be necessary to get a yes here (there is no weapon you will get past a seasoned bouncer other than perhaps a biro). If you can't take it everywhere you go, bar perhaps the airport, it is worthless to you, because dollars to donuts you won't be carrying it when you need it. If you are going to get stopped and cautioned because of the obvious bulge in your jacket, it is no good to you.

Deployability - so you'll carry it, and it will fit with your lifestyle. Can you get to it, and deploy it (expose the blade, extend the batton, disengage the safety valve) and take up your defensive/offensive position before your opponents are within their lethal range? If you can't, it's no use having it, and will be a distraction in a critical situation. Having both arms busy scrabbling when you get hit is not going to do your sentience any favours.

Effectiveness - is it capable of incapacitating with the first blow? You may not get a second shot at an attacker, or his mates may be closing in on you. Once you may the decision to use a weapon against another person, you need to make sure there are no half measures, and that you inflict maximum damage on first impact.

Usability - Firstly, do you have the stomach for it. Be honest with yourself. Many people will happily give you a tap on the head with a baton. Not so many will look in your eyes and gut you. Know what you have the stomach for ahead of time. You cannot afford to hesitate or re-evaluate at le moment critique (this point may also belong in the 'Game' section). Hesitation really is how you get yourself killed with your own weapon, and that will be embarrassing at your funeral, though perhaps it will discourage clapping, which is something.

Trainability - can you practice with it, and develop a few gross motor patterns that become ingrained in you, so that you can act without thinking should you need to. If you're using a knife, you should know what it is to bleed an animal and gut it. You do not want to be overwhelmed by horror the first time you ever draw blood in anger.

Legality - this has two aspects. Ideally whatever you chose should be legal. Ultimately though, you are unlikely to be bleeding out in the gutter patting yourself on the back for not having been silly enough to carry a bigger stick, and you will have to examine your own conscience here. Whatever you decide, you should be polite, respectful, and well turned out, so that you avoid trouble, and avoid coming into contact with the first responders of the legal system. The second aspect to legality is a consideration of how your weapon of choice will be viewed in court should you win. Blunt objects or objects used by the police are more likely to be treated kindly than sharp pointy things criminals hide in their bottoms. Again, this is a matter for personal reflection.

Affordability - if it looks good for all of the above, you should probably buy it. Avoid thinks that say 'tactical' or 'combat black' etc, as that never plays well with the powers that be. You are not a power ranger, you'll be just fine with something more discrete.

Then, only a telescopic baton meets your criteria, I think.

As to my ice-axe proposal, it could be useful in a (suburban RER) train-attack situation, which is (the train I mean) the most common place for a mugging, in France. I mean, muggers robbing people in a train wagon, you'd have time to see them coming and grab your ice-axe from your backpack, wouldn't you? Also, an ice-axe under a seat in your car might come in handy in case of, say, car-jacking...

A telescopic baton is a very good choice, but I don't think one can necessarily rule out knives, screwdrivers etc. As I mentioned, legality is an area where personal reflection is required, and there are no right answers. Personally I'd go for a 4" plus blade on a reliable folding knife with a solid locking system, that has an adjustable pocket clip. You are more likely to be able to reach and deploy it in a tussle, assuming you've been jumped and can buy yourself some time. I dress smart, looking like a nice chap, avoid trouble, and don't go anywhere I'm going to get patted down or find myself in a close shave with the fuzz. A knife also follows more natural fighting arcs than a baton in my opinion, is harder to time, harder to grab, and more likely to demoralise an opponent. It is also effective once the fight ebbs in your opponent's favour - ie you're on the ground, tangled up etc. I believe a knife in capable hands improves survivability to an extent that makes the disdain of the judiciary a satisfactory trade off. It also suits my personal philosophy regarding the use of violence more appropriately.

Re: the ice axe - perhaps, though I think anything that needs unzipping or prolonged fine motor control to access in a high stress situation is undesirable. Also, to look at the thing, if you give someone a whack with that, you might as well scalp the fucker and jump up on the seat hooting like a Red Indian, because the court system is going to hang you out to dry.

 

[Dalaran1991]

@Going Strong: that would not be a practical weapon baring it being difficult to deploy, especially in crowded place like the metro. Having lived in Paris you know how this is.

Not too long ago I posted a thread about how I show a little compassion for a girl who just got mugged. When I talked to the father, he said that they were in a crowd, suddenly he collapsed on his knees, someone has hit him from behind. Then someone else got into his pockets quickly and they made off before anyone could even understand what was going on.

That was just an example, but the point is, if you have to draw your weapon from your backpack its already too late. It needs to be on your person all the time. Only a knife, knuckle brass or small pepper spray fit this description.

However, the ice pick is awesome for home defense. I'm actually thinking about getting one for this reason. Its small blade allows it to be used through small spaces like a blocked door/window, and it can be used as a lever when needed.

@about the "do you need training to use a knife": i would say yes. H1N1, i agree with you that aggression count for a lot (which is why we are already at a disadvantage against the migrants), but in your example the boxer doesnt necessarily know how to deal with a knife. Quite the contrary, he might be inclined to rely too much on his boxing that he forgot the natural reflexes: grab the knife and try to wrestle the hell out of it.

Try this with your friends who are untrained. Back them into a corner with a practice knife and try stabbing them. It will turn into a wrestling match I guarantee you. I did this all the time and though I won, I actually won using the empty hand and my knees, and I would got cut a lot too had it been a real knife. This is given that I have decent hand to hand training and SOME knife training.

Against multiple DETERMINED, AGGRESSIVE attackers you are done.

@OGNorCal707: I'll adress your question for what it is: no i have not, but people close to me have been attacked and badly mauled by illegal immigrants which are blacks and muslims. I made fun of my Sensei the first time he got mugged, but the second time I got really worried. Do you need to be personally attacked to feel threatened? That's the same attitude the ignorant lefts hold that lead us into this mess "Oh I work with Muslims all the time and they are nice so these syrians are no threat at all!"

You guys need to be on the ground to understand how it is. 2 terrorists attack by Muslims in under one year, over 200 killed and wounded, and we're still asking "Is it safe?" Are you fucking kidding me?

I'm doing my best to prepare but truthfully if I'm so unlucky to get jumped by an aggressive horde who wants to do me harm there's a high chance that I'll die. No plan survives contact with the enemy. Though I'll make sure I wont die ass raped like some of those cucked.

That said though, I'll also buy binoculars to watch migrants raping the local femen bitches. Damn shame they have gone so silence lately. I pray to all the divine they do another nude protest in a Muslim filled street. The happy - ahem brutal - ending would be so poetic.

 

[H1N1]

@about the "do you need training to use a knife": i would say yes. H1N1, i agree with you that aggression count for a lot (which is why we are already at a disadvantage against the migrants), but in your example the boxer doesnt necessarily know how to deal with a knife. Quite the contrary, he might be inclined to rely too much on his boxing that he forgot the natural reflexes: grab the knife and try to wrestle the hell out of it.

Try this with your friends who are untrained. Back them into a corner with a practice knife and try stabbing them. It will turn into a wrestling match I guarantee you. I did this all the time and though I won, I actually won using the empty hand and my knees, and I would got cut a lot too had it been a real knife. This is given that I have decent hand to hand training and SOME knife training.

Against multiple DETERMINED, AGGRESSIVE attackers you are done.

Using a knife and defending a knife attack are different things. To use it, you need nothing other than aggression and bad intentions, it'll get the job done just fine. To defend against it, you need to be acquainted with certain realities about violence, and a shit load of luck. If you are attacked by surprise by someone who knows how to use a knife, you are dead. If you are attacked by multiple determined assailants with knives, you are dead, whatever your close quarter weapon is (unless it's a pistol with significant stopping power - you'd be relying on an element of luck with 9mm at close range).

What I'd encourage you to do, rather than using a practice knife with your friends, is to use a sharpie. I promise you that your wrestling match, you unarmed and your friend with a knife (sharpie), ends with you dead every time, unless you already have complete control of the knife hand, and can guarantee his free hand is not drawing another weapon. You think you would have got cut a lot. The reality is you would have died a lot. The defense against a knife attack is to run. If you can't run, the aim is to ensure every strike of the knife is non-lethal, which basically means you're trying to take everything on the top of your forearm. If you're getting hit anywhere else, especially in a frenzy, you are dying a lot. The only defense against a knife in the hands of a killer is to be similarly armed or not there in the first place.

 

[Going strong]

@Going Strong: that would not be a practical weapon bearing it being difficult to deploy, especially in crowded place like the metro. Having lived in Paris you know how this is.

... the point is, if you have to draw your weapon from your backpack its already too late. It needs to be on your person all the time. Only a knife, knuckle brass or small pepper spray fit this description.

However, the ice pick is awesome for home defense. I'm actually thinking about getting one for this reason. Its small blade allows it to be used through small spaces like a blocked door/window, and it can be used as a lever when needed.

Yes, the ice-axe would require time to deploy, and has to be hidden in a backpack (or possibly on you, but of course it would be awkward when sitting or even walking, I mean, what with the handle in your pant-leg and the protruding blade under a jacket)... but, once again, in a suburban train (RER) situation at night in the 9-3, it'd be something good to have in someone's backpack... But anyway, in the Parisian metro, I agree, the ice-axe would not be handy. (And well, you're informed and cautious enough never to take the RER at night towards a banlieue, without doubt)

Concerning the knife: I think the most important part is how to hold it, while waiting for an attack. The way you hold it then will not only protect you from a disarming move (from your opponent), but also show your adversary that you know how to use a knife and are probably a guy better left alone...

Bad knife preparation postures:

even this one is rather bad even though it looks quite threatening:

 

[Going strong]

And now, good knife preparation postures, stances:

 

[H1N1]

@Going Strong: that would not be a practical weapon baring it being difficult to deploy, especially in crowded place like the metro. Having lived in Paris you know how this is.

... the point is, if you have to draw your weapon from your backpack its already too late. It needs to be on your person all the time. Only a knife, knuckle brass or small pepper spray fit this description.

However, the ice pick is awesome for home defense. I'm actually thinking about getting one for this reason. Its small blade allows it to be used through small spaces like a blocked door/window, and it can be used as a lever when needed.

Yes, the ice-axe would require time to deploy, and has to be hidden in a backpack (or possibly on you, but of course it would be awkward when sitting or even walking, I mean, what with the handle in your pant-leg and the protruding blade under a jacket)... but, once again, in a suburban train (RER) situation at night in the 9-3, it'd be something good to have in someone's backpack... But anyway, in the Parisian metro, I agree, the ice-axe would not be handy. (And well, you're informed and cautious enough never to take the RER at night towards a banlieue, without doubt)

Concerning the knife: I think the most important part is how to hold it, while waiting for an attack. The way you hold it then will not only protect you from a disarming move (from your opponent), but also show your adversary that you know how to use a knife and are probably a guy better left alone...

Bad knife preparation postures:

even this one is rather bad even though it looks quite threatening:

Respectfully I'd disagree. You should never posture with a weapon or draw it as a deterrent. Have a firm set of principles in your mind long before you find yourself in that situation. Rehearse it in your mind. If you draw your weapon, it is to use it, and to use it effectively, which means concealing its presence as long as possible whilst having full control of it. If you pull it and you are expecting your opponent to run, or back down, you are in the wrong mindset for using a weapon, and have no business deploying it.

As far as correct posture for using it goes - a pronounced boxers crouch is typically favoured by serious knife fighters, as it provides more protection for the vital organs. The knife is always held firmly with all fingers and thumb on the handle in the rear hand. The lead hand is used to distract, blind and grab your opponent, so that he does not see the knife strike coming. Pointy end goes in the baddy, don't slash, stab twist and rip.

Edit: re: your post on good postures, personally only the last one looks sensible. The other two are held to slash or stab downwards, both of which provide far greater opportunity for blocking than the straightforward method demonstrated in the last photo.

 

[Dalaran1991]

@Going Strong:

A bitch with a knife = a violently rape and mutilated bitch unless you are in a Hollywood movie.

Those others are good posture. I remember sitting next to a cop on leave during a bus ride from NYC, and he tells me if he ever sees a guy holding a knife in a high, ice pick grip, he knows he is done. Guy got some terrible scars on his arm.

Though if a guy is brandishing his knife instead of attacking, he doesnt really want to kill you. Give him what he needs and get the fuck out of there...

@H1N1: agree. All this to say just how dangerous things are getting. Knife are easy to get, so you are damn sure a ton of those migrants will have knives as well. Thats why range is so damn important.

What about shock prods? Doubt those are legal in France though....

 

[Lothario]

Couldn't help it, No offense to non-gun bros

 

[H1N1]

What about shock prods? Doubt those are legal in France though....

Are you going to test its effectiveness on yourself? Do you have a 250lb mate who'll let you try it on him? Are you going to take the seller's word for it that it'll incapacitate an adult male silverback gorilla? What do you do when you find out when you come to use it that it's a gimmick, or a mild irritant, rather than something that incapacitates. Certain things are fundamental - shut off the respiratory system, the nervous system, or the circulatory system, and matey is going to have a rough old day at the office. Prod him with your zappy wand and he might just take it of you and stick it up your arse. If you're going to die in the gutter, you do not want to suffer the indignity of night-stick sodomy before you go.

 

[Going strong]

@Going Strong: that would not be a practical weapon baring it being difficult to deploy, especially in crowded place like the metro. Having lived in Paris you know how this is.

... the point is, if you have to draw your weapon from your backpack its already too late. It needs to be on your person all the time. Only a knife, knuckle brass or small pepper spray fit this description.

However, the ice pick is awesome for home defense. I'm actually thinking about getting one for this reason. Its small blade allows it to be used through small spaces like a blocked door/window, and it can be used as a lever when needed.

Yes, the ice-axe would require time to deploy, and has to be hidden in a backpack (or possibly on you, but of course it would be awkward when sitting or even walking, I mean, what with the handle in your pant-leg and the protruding blade under a jacket)... but, once again, in a suburban train (RER) situation at night in the 9-3, it'd be something good to have in someone's backpack... But anyway, in the Parisian metro, I agree, the ice-axe would not be handy. (And well, you're informed and cautious enough never to take the RER at night towards a banlieue, without doubt)

Concerning the knife: I think the most important part is how to hold it, while waiting for an attack. The way you hold it then will not only protect you from a disarming move (from your opponent), but also show your adversary that you know how to use a knife and are probably a guy better left alone...

Bad knife preparation postures:

even this one is rather bad even though it looks quite threatening:

Respectfully I'd disagree. You should never posture with a weapon or draw it as a deterrent. Have a firm set of principles in your mind long before you find yourself in that situation. Rehearse it in your mind. If you draw your weapon, it is to use it, and to use it effectively, which means concealing its presence as long as possible whilst having full control of it. If you pull it and you are expecting your opponent to run, or back down, you are in the wrong mindset for using a weapon, and have no business deploying it.

As far as correct posture for using it goes - a pronounced boxers crouch is typically favoured by serious knife fighters, as it provides more protection for the vital organs. The knife is always held firmly with all fingers and thumb on the handle in the rear hand. The lead hand is used to distract, blind and grab your opponent, so that he does not see the knife strike coming. Pointy end goes in the baddy, don't slash, stab twist and rip.

Edit: re: your post on good postures, personally only the last one looks sensible. The other two are held to slash or stab downwards, both of which provide far greater opportunity for blocking than the straightforward method demonstrated in the last photo.

I agree with the principle (only drawing a weapon when you are absolutely decided to use it without hesitation) described in your post, but, I'd say it's only a principle... in actual modern life in the West, you have to try your best not to seriously wound an opponent. For fear of the Law and police. So, I'd say if you live in France or Germany, you might draw a weapon to threaten your adversary, but hoping not to have to go all the way... (but still, trusting your resolve enough to use it if he or they jump at you, in spite of your displaying of a weapon).

As to the "pronounced boxers crouch" that I pictured I think in the second pic of my "bad stances", I was warned against this very posture, because it will leave you open to the best anti-knife protective move: the sweeping leg kick from left to right (against a right-handed knife-holder), which might very well kick the knife from your low-held hand:

No knife should be held at a low level, to avoid a leg kick from an adversary (at shoulder level, only a very very good martial expert can hit you, frankly).

As to my "good postures" being only for slashing: it's my point exactly: one doesn't want to actually kill a mugger by piercing his body (witnesses and cameras are everywhere), one wants to slash and shock the mugger, and escape.

Edit: relevant to this thread: https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-50253-post-1186305.html#pid1186305

 

[Parzival]

When you use a knife and injury or even kill the other person, mostly you spend some time behind bar. A knife is not even seen by law as a defence weapon. Even when you never pull out the blade - like on a one hand knife - its seen as a lethal weapon. A kubotan is a better choice. When you use a knife, stab down to top. Not top to down. Or slice. In some cases a guy dies from a single stab because organs get hurt and in other cases someone get stabbed multiple times and make it. That a court will judge in your favour when you used a knife will be very very rare. No matter how much you thing your self defence was legal.

About testing and training. Either weapons or self defence. Your mind will be always different. Your body know the situation is not real. An attacker on drugs, crazy or whatever rage can handle more then you ever can simulate in a training. When you see a knife you better run, not even dare to try to kick or grab it. For me this is all bullshit. Most will get hit by the knife. A good book is Meditations on Violence. There are real life situation and how to prepare your mind, the mindset of attacker and so on.

 

[H1N1]

@Going Strong: that would not be a practical weapon baring it being difficult to deploy, especially in crowded place like the metro. Having lived in Paris you know how this is.

... the point is, if you have to draw your weapon from your backpack its already too late. It needs to be on your person all the time. Only a knife, knuckle brass or small pepper spray fit this description.

However, the ice pick is awesome for home defense. I'm actually thinking about getting one for this reason. Its small blade allows it to be used through small spaces like a blocked door/window, and it can be used as a lever when needed.

Yes, the ice-axe would require time to deploy, and has to be hidden in a backpack (or possibly on you, but of course it would be awkward when sitting or even walking, I mean, what with the handle in your pant-leg and the protruding blade under a jacket)... but, once again, in a suburban train (RER) situation at night in the 9-3, it'd be something good to have in someone's backpack... But anyway, in the Parisian metro, I agree, the ice-axe would not be handy. (And well, you're informed and cautious enough never to take the RER at night towards a banlieue, without doubt)

Concerning the knife: I think the most important part is how to hold it, while waiting for an attack. The way you hold it then will not only protect you from a disarming move (from your opponent), but also show your adversary that you know how to use a knife and are probably a guy better left alone...

Bad knife preparation postures:

even this one is rather bad even though it looks quite threatening:

Respectfully I'd disagree. You should never posture with a weapon or draw it as a deterrent. Have a firm set of principles in your mind long before you find yourself in that situation. Rehearse it in your mind. If you draw your weapon, it is to use it, and to use it effectively, which means concealing its presence as long as possible whilst having full control of it. If you pull it and you are expecting your opponent to run, or back down, you are in the wrong mindset for using a weapon, and have no business deploying it.

As far as correct posture for using it goes - a pronounced boxers crouch is typically favoured by serious knife fighters, as it provides more protection for the vital organs. The knife is always held firmly with all fingers and thumb on the handle in the rear hand. The lead hand is used to distract, blind and grab your opponent, so that he does not see the knife strike coming. Pointy end goes in the baddy, don't slash, stab twist and rip.

Edit: re: your post on good postures, personally only the last one looks sensible. The other two are held to slash or stab downwards, both of which provide far greater opportunity for blocking than the straightforward method demonstrated in the last photo.

I agree with the principle (only drawing a weapon when you are absolutely decided to use it without hesitation) described in your post, but, I'd say it's only a principle... in actual modern life in the West, you have to try your best not to seriously wound an opponent. For fear of the Law and police. So, I'd say if you live in France or Germany, you might draw a weapon to threaten your adversary, but hoping not to have to go all the way... (but still, trusting your resolve enough to use it if he or they jump at you, in spite of your displaying of a weapon).

As to the "pronounced boxers crouch" that I pictured I think in the second pic of my "bad stances", I was warned against this very posture, because it will leave you open to the best anti-knife protective move: the sweeping leg kick from left to right (against a right-handed knife-holder), which might very well kick the knife from your low-held hand:

No knife should be held at a low level, to avoid a leg kick from an adversary (at shoulder level, only a very very good martial expert can hit you, frankly).

As to my "good postures" being only for slashing: it's my point exactly: one doesn't want to actually kill a mugger by piercing his body (witnesses and cameras are everywhere), one wants to slash and shock the mugger, and escape.

We'll have to agree to disagree here. I believe what you have just described to be the perfect blueprint for getting yourself killed. I'll PM you some further, limited explanation, but a public forum is no place for this. Respectfully, I'm bowing out.