Fret's Intermittent Fasting Journey

[FretDancer]

Nice one FretDancer.

I started Leangains about 3.5 weeks ago. I have similar stats to you and saw similar progress and am sticking to similar macros. Last week I weighed 67.2kg, going down from 67.8kg the previous week. My strength has gone up in all exercises except the overhead press (if you have any tips on how to improve on OHP let me know because I've been stuck for a while).

Al Sahab nice to see that you are experiencing progress. I too have plateauing problems with Flat Bench Press and Overhead Press so I think I'm not really qualified to help you there.

I was on a ketogenic diet for a couple of months before leangains, and as lyle mcdonald said the caloric deficit (easier to have when in ketosis) screwed with my fat loss. Since upping my caloric intake I've noticed increased fat loss. I think carb cycling + intermittent fasting is great for an endo-meso like me.

Yes, it's crazy. The body is really an interesting thing. According to Lyle, and what I understand, it has something to do with Cortisol levels raising due to stress. And since we are already giving the body stress by fasting (and training fasted), I guess it contributes more to this weird phenomenon.

I probably read the same resources as you, but here's something that was quite useful for me: https://www.dropbox.com/s/fdpfgq3csty0gvl/31minutes' AMA for r_leangains.pdf

- from an ex Berkhan client. The macros seemed a little off for me; carb intake seemed a little high so I cut down. Hope it helps and thanks for the info.

Al, this is exactly the same resource I have been using these past weeks since I came back from SEA. Funny thing is, it was shared to me by another forum member ages ago! And it was not until recent that I really read it carefully and slowly.

However, my first macro and caloric calculation I shared on this post was based on this resource. How? Doing like he said, I calculated my weight percentage compared to his (143lbs and 200lbs), this was around 73%. So I took 73% of all his macros.

Now, the reason why I had a huge deficit on that calculation (~ -36%) has some explanation. As you know, 31minutes says he has a weekly deficit of ~4000 calories, that is more than the ~3600 calories to burn 1 pound of fat statement. I wanted to do the same, but my maintenance calories were already kind of low. The only way for me to even reach ~3500 was with a deficit as high as the one I said before. This is because I ate at maintenance on the workout days.

Now I think not having a weekly caloric deficit of ~3600 cals or more is not bad. Fat loss should still occur even on a moderate deficit (like -15%). The fat loss might be less and slower, or it might be faster (Remember the effect Lyle talks about). I guess I will find out in these new 3 weeks.

On another note, I got another measurement for today. And it is actually a decrease in weight. All my previous fluctuations were increase in weight, so I guess this must be a legit one.

As of today: 140.4 lbs

This indicates a 2.4lbs loss. Like I said in my previous post, it is possible that this was due to my first -35% deficit, and now that I have raised my calories, the fat loss is started to manifest (Like Lyle explained). It might be possible than in this week I might wake up and actually look leaner.

We will see.

 

[samsamsam]

I was on a ketogenic diet for a couple of months before leangains, and as lyle mcdonald said the caloric deficit (easier to have when in ketosis) screwed with my fat loss. Since upping my caloric intake I've noticed increased fat loss. I think carb cycling + intermittent fasting is great for an endo-meso like me.

Yes, it's crazy. The body is really an interesting thing. According to Lyle, and what I understand, it has something to do with Cortisol levels raising due to stress. And since we are already giving the body stress by fasting (and training fasted), I guess it contributes more to this weird phenomenon.

So I do IF. And just eat what I like but don't try to go crazy on eating. If I read what you guys are saying, cutting calories while on IF while actually not help with fat loss? May I trouble you for a specific link where I might read more about this? It just seems like you guys know exactly where this info might be. Thanks.

 

[FretDancer]

I was on a ketogenic diet for a couple of months before leangains, and as lyle mcdonald said the caloric deficit (easier to have when in ketosis) screwed with my fat loss. Since upping my caloric intake I've noticed increased fat loss. I think carb cycling + intermittent fasting is great for an endo-meso like me.

Yes, it's crazy. The body is really an interesting thing. According to Lyle, and what I understand, it has something to do with Cortisol levels raising due to stress. And since we are already giving the body stress by fasting (and training fasted), I guess it contributes more to this weird phenomenon.

So I do IF. And just eat what I like but don't try to go crazy on eating. If I read what you guys are saying, cutting calories while on IF while actually not help with fat loss?

samsamsam:

It depends. First of all, we are all clear that there must be a significant caloric deficit present in order for fat loss to occur.

So when you say "If I read what you guys are saying, cutting calories while on IF while actually not help with fat loss?" it is incorrect, since cutting calories is the only way to fat loss.

Now, the catch here is how many calories you cut, in other words, how aggressive your deficit is (Take my first one for example, -36% cals). It is sometimes in these cases that fat loss can be exaggeratedly stalled.

This might be due to the increase of Cortisol due to stress of dieting, a way too aggressive deficit, and probably (but not necessarily) fasting as well. Like we all know, not all bodies react the same way.

May I trouble you for a specific link where I might read more about this? It just seems like you guys know exactly where this info might be. Thanks.

Check out these two articles by Lyle McDonald. Very informative:

• Why Big Caloric Deficits and Lots of Activity Can Hurt Fat Loss
• The LTDFLE

 

[Al Sahab]

Now I think not having a weekly caloric deficit of ~3600 cals or more is not bad. Fat loss should still occur even on a moderate deficit (like -15%). The fat loss might be less and slower, or it might be faster (Remember the effect Lyle talks about). I guess I will find out in these new 3 weeks.

Yup. I'm more reluctant to have a large deficit than I am a small one because I have experienced the adverse effects first hand.

I am going to figure out maintenance calories through trial and error. I've made my target maintenance intake 2100kcal and target rest day intake 1600kcal. This should give me a nice 24% deficit on rest days and a 2000kcal deficit over the course of a week.

I'll stick with it and see what happens. I'll either tinker up or down but the important thing is to track progress.

It's cool that someone else here is approaching this with the same mindset as I am. At first I was reluctant to track myself but it's actually very interesting to think of your body as a scientific experiment. Also it will hopefully give me a definitive personal answer to the conundrum of fat loss and muscle maintenance/gain.

 

[FretDancer]

Now I think not having a weekly caloric deficit of ~3600 cals or more is not bad. Fat loss should still occur even on a moderate deficit (like -15%). The fat loss might be less and slower, or it might be faster (Remember the effect Lyle talks about). I guess I will find out in these new 3 weeks.

Yup. I'm more reluctant to have a large deficit than I am a small one because I have experienced the adverse effects first hand.

I am going to figure out maintenance calories through trial and error. I've made my target maintenance intake 2100kcal and target rest day intake 1600kcal. This should give me a nice 24% deficit on rest days and a 2000kcal deficit over the course of a week.

I'll stick with it and see what happens. I'll either tinker up or down but the important thing is to track progress.

It's cool that someone else here is approaching this with the same mindset as I am. At first I was reluctant to track myself but it's actually very interesting to think of your body as a scientific experiment. Also it will hopefully give me a definitive personal answer to the conundrum of fat loss and muscle maintenance/gain.

Yes, the adjustment is key, probably the most important thing. Everybody wants to nail it down on the first try, and that's where I think many people go wrong and then give up.

What you could try is using many of the calculators found online, enter your data and see what results come out, and finally base your calculation based on the data you think it's best.

During those weeks (3 weeks is what's recommended) you should also track how you are feeling about it in general, how you feel about the deficit. If you feel like shit then that is a very good hint that you should relax your deficit a bit.

Good look man and keep us updated with your progress.

 

[kosko]

For those living abroad whom are having trouble with food intake minus supplements like protein look into milk powder. It isn't protein packed like whey with only 15 grams of protein per serving but it offers some factor of ease as something you can have at breakfast/dinner very easily. Also you will have to broaden the pallet. Unless your in India then some type of flesh/protein will be a staple. For those in SE Asia this is likely fish and you should be able to track down a type you like. My buddy lived off whitefish, ground pork, and fish balls for protein since he (by choice) couldn't ditch his staples when he came back from a exchange in Asia.

 

[FretDancer]

Update​

November 11 2014

It's been a while since my last update. I don't have much to report other than that my fat loss is going steady, slow, but steady.

Yesterday I drank loads of water, in order to obtain the most accurate scale measurement I could today:

Today's Measurement: 139.2lbs

I am losing around 0.5 - 1lbs of fat per week, probably somewhere in the middle of that. It's a small amount, but this way I feel I am not losing any muscle.

Training
Training wise I have not lost any strength, some of my lifts are even going up like my Squat, Leg Press, Overhead Press, and Barbell Curls.

Diet
Diet wise I am now eating at ~1600 calories per day on both Rest & Workout days (unlike before, which I ate at maintenance on workout days). Despite of this, I still haven't experience any strength loses.

Additionally, starting this week (yesterday) I am now going low-carb even on workout days. Before I would eat more carbs on workout days to help me recover. However now I am going full low-carb for a few days (maybe 4 or 5) in order to stay low-insulin, and target my stubborn body fat which I still have on my abdominal region.

Supplements
The only supplement I am taking is fish oil. I take 6 capsules of 1g each everyday, that makes it 6g of fish oil per day. I am not taking any whey protein.

Pictures
Here are some pictures I took today. Sadly the lightning where I have a mirror is not so good.

See more pictures here.

​

Other Thoughts:
Even though I am losing fat, I want to add that my diet is not 100% strict. On weekends I tend to eat whatever I want to eat. Sometimes protein requirements are not met, or maybe fat or carbohydrates requirements are exceeded. You could call it a frequent diet break if you will.

 

[WanderingSoul]

Starting to get pretty lean. Do you plan to bulk soon?

 

[FretDancer]

Starting to get pretty lean. Do you plan to bulk soon?

My plan is once I can get rid of my abdominal fat, I will eat at maintenance for a few weeks, maybe 2 or 3. This is just to see what happens during these weeks while eating at maintenance (or close to), if I regain fat, or whatever.

If after this period I am still as lean as before starting it. I will begin to bulk, really slowly. Trying to not gain fat as much as I can.

This will probably only allow me to gain around 0.5lbs of lean muscle mass per week, at most and if done right...

The problem with bulking in such a low amount is that I do not know how to track this progress. How to know if the added weight is not fat, or part of a chunk of water weight? I am still a bit clueless about it. I don't wanna "bulk" and end up with more fat again when it took me so much trouble to get rid of it in the first place.

Wish me luck.

 

[FretDancer]

Had to fix some settings where I stored my progress pictures. You can now view the progress pictures here.

Also, check out my latest post about the most common mistakes and misconceptions when doing Intermittent Fasting:

Top 5 Mistakes & Misconceptions When Doing Intermittent Fasting​

 

[FretDancer]

Update​

It's been a while since my last update in this thread.

I stopped dieting not much after posting those updates. I stopped counting calories and probably only did so like 2 or 3 times a week (usually on training days). Reason is because I got tired of cooking, and I got tired of eating the same food all the time that allowed me to track my calories and macros.

Since I live in campus and there are a few nice good restaurants here, I would frequent those instead.

I would still always try to cycle my fat and carbs between training and rest days and "try" to eat at a deficit or at least maintenance, but otherwise I wasn't really counting calories.

After about 3 weeks I decided to take some pictures again to see what happened. Here are a few:

​

See more pictures here.

As you can see there is barely any difference between last update's photos.

What I want to point out here is that even after a relatively long period of taking a break (aprox. 3 weeks, maybe more) I still managed to stay relatively lean.

Sure, it is possible some small fat gain occurred, but overall is not really noticeable from last time.

Since I have been dieting for too long I have decided to stop and I am now preparing to slow bulk.

However I am gonna keep a few things in mind:
- Stay in a caloric deficit on rest days.
- Caloric surplus on training days. A surplus of about 20% calories, maximum.

This is basically the protocol that Martin suggests in LeanGains. I am still confident that I can build muscle even when on a caloric deficit on rest days only.

I expect to put on around 0.5lbs of lean muscle per week, best case scenario, but im not counting on this.

Still, I am not gonna focus on how much muscle I am putting on a weekly basis. Just eat, and stay on your caloric range with the right macros, and lift.

 

[britchard]

If I'm going to do IF in a 16/8 split, how often should I do it? Once a week?

 

[FretDancer]

If I'm going to do IF in a 16/8 split, how often should I do it? Once a week?

If by 16/8 you mean a 16 fasting window with an 8 hour feeding window, then you should do it everyday.

That means that everyday you only eat during those 8 hours. This is really what Intermittent Fasting actually consists of.

You can set up your feeding window as any way you wish as long as you still have a significant fasting window. Some people prefer not eating breakfast, but some people prefer to eat it, it is up to you.

 

[fortysix]

Hey guys --

Ive been reading about this the past few days - I decided to keep an 8 hour feeding window Monday - Friday, and today is my first day. I'm @ work and I am starving. I feel disoriented and mentally slow. Doubling down on my coffee intake to try to deal with this issue. Got about 3 more hours until feeding time... I'm assuming this will get substantially easier.

EDIT: I'm starving - I held off for 3 hours from my usual breakfast time but I can't get anything done @ work. Will try to ease into this by going an extra 30 minutes longer each day. For now, burrito time.

 

[Checkmat]

Hey guys --

Ive been reading about this the past few days - I decided to keep an 8 hour feeding window Monday - Friday, and today is my first day. I'm @ work and I am starving. I feel disoriented and mentally slow. Doubling down on my coffee intake to try to deal with this issue. Got about 3 more hours until feeding time... I'm assuming this will get substantially easier.

EDIT: I'm starving - I held off for 3 hours from my usual breakfast time but I can't get anything done @ work. Will try to ease into this by going an extra 30 minutes longer each day. For now, burrito time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghrelin

Your body is hormonally used to eating at X time every day. The first day of intermittent fasting is a big shock to your body. It does get substantially easier.

Give it a week or two and you'll see a huge difference in hunger timing.

Sometimes we mistake thirst for hunger. Drinking more water than you usually do will help. Chewing sugar-free gum is something I do almost every day as well.

 

[fortysix]

So what is actually considered "breaking a fast" - Obviously coffee is not - even if with some butter. What about a few spoons of yogurt right upon waking up? Dates? How much is fine without breaking the fast? To what extent do you lose benefits upon eating a small amount?

One of the reasons I ask is I would like to take my UDOs oil in the morning, but its less beneficial if taken without some kind of food.. :s

 

[Checkmat]

So what is actually considered "breaking a fast"

Ingesting calories.

 

[fortysix]

So what is actually considered "breaking a fast"

Ingesting calories.

What about drinking coffee with butter?

 

[Eusebius]

I've been drinking coffee with coconut oil and not counting it as breaking the fast. That is actually at least 100 calories of fat. However, I still feel like I'm getting the benefits of IF, and a lot of IF'ers do the same.