Freud the Fraud

911

Peacock
Catholic
Gold Member
Beguiled, in examining Freud's legacy and work, it is pretty useful to look at his personal background, the cultural context he emerged from, and how his theories came to become the foundation of modern psychotherapy. Can one really discuss Margaret Mead, Alfred Kinsey or Franz Boas who, like Freud, became the modern pillars of their academic fields, without placing these figures into their socio-cultural and historic contexts?


Sherman said:
An excellent book on this subject is: "Freudian Fraud: The Malignant Effect of Freud's Theory on American Thought and Culture".

The author believes that Freud was a quack who was promoted by popular culture, but never taken seriously by science.

This is a review taken form the link below. I broke it into paragraphs to make it easier to read.

"'Freudian Fraud: The Malignant Effect of Freud's Theory on American Thought and Culture_ by psychiatrist E. Fuller Torrey traces the role of Freudian theory (particularly that concerning the role of sex in childhood development) in American culture and thought. Freud postulated that the behavior of children was sexual in nature and maintained a highly dogmatic position about such notions as the Oedipus complex throughout his life. This book examines the harmful role of Freudian theory in American culture. Torrey argues that Freudian theory is not only unscientific but has been harmful leading to a culture of narcissism and irresponsibility.

Torrey begins by discussing Freud's practice as a psychoanalyst. Freud was very influenced by occult ideas, including numerology as well as the idea of his fellow physician Wilhelm Fliess that the nose is linked to human sexuality. This led Freud to operate on the nose of many patients, leading often to permanent disfiguration.

In addition, Freud advocated the use of cocaine as a panacea for all physical and mental ills and took the drug heavily himself. Freud's system also was very denigrating towards women viewing the mother as the source of all mental problems and personal unhappiness. Nevertheless, because Freud openly discussed sex as the source of mental problems he became a favorite among those who advocated sexual liberation during the Victorian era. Prime among these figures was the anarchist Emma Goldman who became enthralled by Freudianism and advocated for birth control and sexual freedom.

In America, Freud's ideas became linked to leftist political thought after the emigration to this country of anthropologist Franz Boas. Torrey contrasts nature and nurture showing how at the beginning of the Twentieth century rightists were associated with the nature side of the spectrum, often advocating eugenics and biological determinism as well as racialism. In contrast, leftists were associated with the nurture side of the spectrum, often appealing directly to Freud to show that social problems were rooted in child rearing methods.

Cultural relativists like Franz Boas came to advocate leftist politics while appealing to both Freud and Marx against rightists such as the racialist Madison Grant. Ruth Benedict and Margaret Mead, two of the students of Boas, became very famous with their anthropological work supposedly showing that in more "liberated" cultures adolescence was less stressful. Nevertheless, as Torrey shows the work of Mead in particular was heavily biased by faulty methods, she came to see in the cultures she examined exactly what she expected to see because her methods of questioning influenced her informers.

Mead was a bisexual and this may have led to her adoption of Freudian theory. With the rise and fall of Adolf Hitler, the nature/nurture question became settled, making it in bad taste to argue that behaviors could be genetically determined. Torrey next devotes a chapter to the influence of Freud among various political radicals and social elites, particularly among a group of leftists in New York City who openly advocated for Trotsky. Torrey also shows how Freudian ideas became influential in both the nursery and the prison system. In the nursery, the ideas of Benjamin Spock, based on Freudian concepts, came to prevail for an entire generation. It should be remembered that before Spock mankind had been successfully raising children since time immemorial. Nevertheless, Spock would come to take a prime place among a generation of individuals. In the prison system, Freudian ideas were used often to argue that criminals were products of a dysfunctional childhood.

This frequently allowed criminals such as Leopold and Loeb to be given lighter sentences and led to an abuse of the insanity defense. Indeed, the notion of personal responsibility became untenable in the light of Freudian theory. Torrey next turns his attention to the intellectual elite, including individuals like Marcuse, Goodman, and Brown who often advocated a combined Freudianism and Marxism as part of the New Left. It should be noted that although Freudianism was frequently linked to radical politics in America, that Freud himself was an elitist.

Freud looked down upon lower members of society and his services were pretty much uniformly offered to only the wealthy class. Indeed, Freud refused to treat the severely mentally ill. Torrey suggests that Freudianism has led to a massive misallocation of resources, in which the most severely ill are never treated or treated with Freudian nonsense, while those who have only life complaints are given full Freudian analyses. Nevertheless, Freud must be credited for his promotion of the idea of the unconscious. Torrey also notes the similiarity of Freudian analysis to a religion, emphasizing its Jewish influence, something that cannot be overstated. Torrey concludes with two appendices in which he discusses the influence of Freud on intellectuals (...)

After reading this book, I became more convinced than ever that Freudian ideas have been highly harmful to the psychic well-being of many Americans. In addition, the linkage between Freudian ideas and elitist leftist politics has proven disastrous for this country and for man's freedom."

https://www.amazon.com/Freudian-Fra...rd_wg=hymws&psc=1&refRID=BY60DXSJ9KR3KC6Q73PZ

Good find, Sherman, bookmarked. The author E Fuller Torrey sounds like a good purple pilled researcher, he covers many interesting and relevant topics in his other books including homelessness, the (mis-)treatment of mental disorders in the US and more specific topics like the Soviet-style internment of political prisoner Ezra Pound on false charges of mental illness. Torrey establishes that Pound's insanity diagnosis was politically motivated. Pound was a very and early outspoken critic of the Fed system and its bankster owners. His work inspired Eustace Mullins to look into the Fed system, best work done on the subject.

E. Fuller Torrey, M.D., is a research psychiatrist specializing in schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. He is the executive director of the Stanley Medical Research Institute, the founder of the Treatment Advocacy Center, a professor of psychiatry at the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences, and the author of twenty books. He lives in Bethesda, Maryland.

Book TV talk on his book about mental health, homelessness and crime:

 
With Freud was with Marx, Kafka, Adorno and other jewish intellectuals, the analysis might be correct, but the topic is always the weakness of the European and the teachings are always used by their kinsmen to destroy Europeans.
 

debeguiled

Peacock
Gold Member
911 said:
Beguiled, in examining Freud's legacy and work, it is pretty useful to look at his personal background, the cultural context he emerged from, and how his theories came to become the foundation of modern psychotherapy. Can one really discuss Margaret Mead, Alfred Kinsey or Franz Boas who, like Freud, became the modern pillars of their academic fields, without placing these figures into their socio-cultural and historic contexts?

No argument from me on that.

However.

There is close to zero analysis of his actual theories though.

This is not an oversight.

Something psychological is going on here.

Something that, as AB mentioned, might easily be explained by one of his theories.
He didn't have all the answers, but he opened up the world of the unconscious as well as the sexual nature of our motivations to academic discourse.

Dude was a freaking intellectual monster. This is Freud we are talking about.


I don't pretend to be an expert on Freud, but the people I know who are, or at least who should be, namely intelligent and sensitive therapists and psychologists, well, none of them pretend that he has been superseded by science or new theories, despite cultural trends to the contrary.

They actually seem a bit sheepish in their defense of Freud's ideas, knowing, as they do, that it is out of fashion.

What exactly do people have a problem with? The concept of the unconscious? The concept of psychoanalysis? Dream analysis? Defense mechanisms? Projection? What Jordan Peterson, admirer of Freud himself calls the "Devouring Oedipal mother?" The concept of the libido? Of repression and sublimation?

What about the concept of the anal stage of development?

These are just off the top of my head, and the last one is a such common expression that people who have never heard of Freud use it to mean controlling.

Freud is part of the foundation of how any reasonably educated person thinks.

I just can't see how he is being dismissed so easily in such a chaotic way.

It smacks of the displacement activity of deep denial.

Heh.
 
Let's take Freud, he will say, the boy desires to fuck his own mother, so he grows up to have various perversions because his father does not deal with this and "removes mother from boy".

Jung says, the boy desires to know, conquer and integrate the Anima in his psyche and the father must teach him to do so and not get swept away.

Same concept. Two very different expressions.
 

Sherman

Ostrich
Orthodox Inquirer
Albert Ellis was an experienced Freudian Psychoanalyst who gave up psychoanalysis for one simple reason: it didn't work. He went on to develop rational emotive behavior therapy which was based on the philosophy of ancient Rome and Greece. If the philosophy of ancient Greece is more effective than psychoanalysis that should tell you something.

Psychoanalysis isn't taken seriously by psychology. It isn't science. It is actually better classified as a genre of literary fiction. It is used by some subjectivist writers to explain the behavior of characters in fiction and movies. That's why artsy fartsy types love it but scientists don't take it seriously.

Also, the idea of "repression" has been used in some legal cases to falsely accuse people of crimes, where therapists trained in Freudianism induced false memories of abuse in children. So pseudo-science can really hurt people. Repression has not been proven by science. Pseudo-science is dangerous.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMartin_preschool_trial
 

Paracelsus

Crow
Gold Member
Sherman said:
In America, Freud's ideas became linked to leftist political thought after the emigration to this country of anthropologist Franz Boas. Torrey contrasts nature and nurture showing how at the beginning of the Twentieth century rightists were associated with the nature side of the spectrum, often advocating eugenics and biological determinism as well as racialism. In contrast, leftists were associated with the nurture side of the spectrum, often appealing directly to Freud to show that social problems were rooted in child rearing methods.

Cultural relativists like Franz Boas came to advocate leftist politics while appealing to both Freud and Marx against rightists such as the racialist Madison Grant. Ruth Benedict and Margaret Mead, two of the students of Boas, became very famous with their anthropological work supposedly showing that in more "liberated" cultures adolescence was less stressful. Nevertheless, as Torrey shows the work of Mead in particular was heavily biased by faulty methods, she came to see in the cultures she examined exactly what she expected to see because her methods of questioning influenced her informers.

Boas, Benedict, and Mead all are mentioned in Edward Wilson's Consilience. They're the people who brought postmodernist idiocy to anthropology; they're the ones responsible for crusading that there's no such thing as a universal human nature.
 
With AB here, never really get the hate for Freud, even when I was a blue-pill Sociology major. In fact, the fact that all liberals and feminists hate him makes me like the dude even more. All I hear against Freud is: he is mysoginist, has mommy issues, society was dumb at the time (like it's not dumb now) etc. Haven't seen a good breakdown of why his theories are wrong.

(The irony is that the term "mommy/daddy issues" itself comes from Freud's work)

There's no point in discussing something as complex as this on the internet. But the guy invented the best troll line in history: tell me about your mother.

Use this against male feminist, or replace mother with daddy against feminist and record the hilarity.
 

Sherman

Ostrich
Orthodox Inquirer
The present day sensitivity ideology can be traced back to the 1960s and was basically started by Freudian psychiatrists, like Fritz Perls who was trained by Wilhelm Reich. Janov (another Freudian) developed Primal Therapy , better know as Scream Therapy. The 60s "encounter groups" continued the trend adopting psychodrama techniques developed by Freudians. Freud is the father of all snowflakes.
 

911

Peacock
Catholic
Gold Member
Sherman said:
Albert Ellis was an experienced Freudian Psychoanalyst who gave up psychoanalysis for one simple reason: it didn't work. He went on to develop rational emotive behavior therapy which was based on the philosophy of ancient Rome and Greece. If the philosophy of ancient Greece is more effective than psychoanalysis that should tell you something.

Psychoanalysis isn't taken seriously by psychology. It isn't science. It is actually better classified as a genre of literary fiction. It is used by some subjectivist writers to explain the behavior of characters in fiction and movies. That's why artsy fartsy types love it but scientists don't take it seriously.

Also, the idea of "repression" has been used in some legal cases to falsely accuse people of crimes, where therapists trained in Freudianism induced false memories of abuse in children. So pseudo-science can really hurt people. Repression has not been proven by science. Pseudo-science is dangerous.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMartin_preschool_trial

The McMartin preschool was likely a real case of child abuse covered up (literally so, when it comes to the underground tunnels), "false memory syndrome" can often be a sciento-hoax used to cover up pedo rings. Many members of the False Memory Syndrome Foundations have been linked with MK Ultra and dubious backgrounds.

Though it could be possible that in some cases they have knowingly convicted innocent parents accused of child molestation in order to generate a backlash that would flip public opinion on the side of the perpetrators.
 

Paracelsus

Crow
Gold Member
Dalaran1991 said:
With AB here, never really get the hate for Freud, even when I was a blue-pill Sociology major. In fact, the fact that all liberals and feminists hate him makes me like the dude even more. All I hear against Freud is: he is mysoginist, has mommy issues, society was dumb at the time (like it's not dumb now) etc. Haven't seen a good breakdown of why his theories are wrong.

(The irony is that the term "mommy/daddy issues" itself comes from Freud's work)

There's no point in discussing something as complex as this on the internet. But the guy invented the best troll line in history: tell me about your mother.

Use this against male feminist, or replace mother with daddy against feminist and record the hilarity.

Freud was a jew who like other jews had a sick motivation to destroy bourgeois morality. He deliberately chose Jung as his student because he needed a non-jew to be the front for his jewish subversive movement.

Freud and the Politics of Psychoanalysis - Doron Avraham

In this article he argued that a more permissive sexual morality, or the courage to feel and recognize - if not enact - seemingly illegitimate sexual desires, may keep women from falling ill. He even mentioned extra-marital affairs for women as an unlikely but potentially efficient safeguard against neurosis.

A Dark Trace: Sigmund Freud on the Sense of Guilt - Herman Westerink

Until then Freud had regularly taken a critical view of strict bourgeois morality.

http://jewishcurrents.org/carl-jung-and-the-question-of-anti-semitism/

The fact that Jung was not Jewish was important to Freud, who placed him in what Sanford Drob calls an “unenviable position” as Gentile guarantor that Freud’s work would not be dismissed as “a Jewish national affair.

Freud was a typical subversive jew who sought to corrupt gentile women.

The end.
 

CynicalContrarian

Owl
Other Christian
Gold Member
If Freud proposed some sort of universal truth.
Would it not be correct to say the universal truth should be able to stand on it's own merits?
That it does not require the soapbox of Freud?

IE, the message is more important than the messenger.
 

Different T

 
Banned
Did any of the "Freud supporters" actually read this book? You claim there's nothing in it about the actual validity of his ideas, yet the review says, "[Freud] in fact never cured anyone, who promoted cocaine as a miracle drug capable of curing a wide range of diseases, and who advanced his career through falsifying case histories."

You list his theories you like, and the review says he was "betraying the mentors who had helped him to rise...Crews has emphasized here and in his earlier writings that what is seen as valuable in Freud’s ideas was developed by people before him, and Freud added almost nothing except a bunch of specious and now-discredited hypotheses."

As in, did he even develop your cherished theories? If not, what did he add to those concepts? Wouldn't those additions be the very things that make Freud "Freudian?"
 
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