George Floyd mural in Toledo collapses after hit by lightning

[Thomas More]

While I do agree that George Floyd was a loser and should not be honored with murals or statues , or people looting and rioting in his name, let us remember that the police officer did go to far. I think Chauvin's prison sentence was too harsh; however, I do think he should have been charged with manslaughter and received 2-4 years. A lot of police officers are more aggressive than they have to be and the USA is quite a police state in many ways (of course, they also can't do basic police work in areas where they are actually needed a lot of the time). George Floyd was subdued and should have been cuffed and taken to the police station.

I am happy the wall was hit by lightning, not because I hate Mr. Floyd, but because he was a loser that should not be martyred. However, Floyd did not deserve to die in this way. We should not blame him for the overreaction to his death though. A lot of the people who deserve blame are making millions and getting into power in his name. True justice would be BLM leaders, protesters blocking roads which affects innocent people, grieving looters, and politicians that openly support the BLM movement getting nailed by lightning (although I want them to live through it and hopefully it will wake them up and make them change their wrongful ways).

Floyd died of a fentanyl overdose. He had fentanyl with him when the cops arrived, and he hid it by eating it. He did this once before as well, but he survived that time.

He was being held down by Chauvin because he was violently resisting arrest, and he was a huge dude. The whole thing is on the internet. Floyd was a huge guy going nuts. When they finally got him on the ground, Chauvin was kneeling on Floyd's neck, because this is a known safe restraint hold for difficult thugs, until they can be handled properly. This neck hold is used in place of the old Rodney King beatdown method for dealing with huge thugs that are resisting arrest.

There is no way that Chauvin (and the other cops with him) could have known the violent thug they got onto the ground had transitioned into the later stages of the fentanyl overdose. It all happened very quickly. They certainly couldn't have believed him when he said he couldn't breath, since this is a common lie among violent thugs being subdued, and since he knew that kneeling on the neck is safe.

Chauvin did nothing wrong, and is being martyred. You have been lied to by the MSM, and you should know better than to believe it. All of this is easily confirmed, and the lying MSM reporters certainly know every bit of this. Obviously, the politicians, judge, and DA in Chauvin's case knew all this as well, but they railroaded him anyway.

 

[carrdogg]

let us remember that the police officer did go to far.

Mate have you seen the police bodycam footage? George Floyd was HUGE. His behaviour was erratic; the man was clearly on drugs at the time of his apprehension. Not to mention he was effectively resisting arrest. Even when all four cops were trying to subdue him, it was still a struggle. He wasn't really complying with their requests, after being identified as the perpetrator of a crime. The cops couldn't get him into the back of their car. Unless you think the cops should have let him go, the man clearly needed to be apprehended. I will concede that the knee on neck is inhumane. However, to my knowledge this doesn't kill people. The drugs in his system (especially fentanyl) definitely played a larger part in his death than the knee hold.

I do think he should have been charged with manslaughter and received 2-4 years.

If you support Chauvin being imprisoned, you're essentially supporting the BLM/Antifa/commie etc. narrative. I know it sucks that there isn't any room for nuance in debates surrounding these topics, but unfortunately that's how political discourse is right now.

 

[get2choppaaa]

I always wonder how many people who are going on about chauvin being in the wrong have ever interacted with a man high on drugs or resisting your restraints.

 

[MartyMcFly]

Mate have you seen the police bodycam footage? George Floyd was HUGE. His behaviour was erratic; the man was clearly on drugs at the time of his apprehension. Not to mention he was effectively resisting arrest. Even when all four cops were trying to subdue him, it was still a struggle. He wasn't really complying with their requests, after being identified as the perpetrator of a crime. The cops couldn't get him into the back of their car. Unless you think the cops should have let him go, the man clearly needed to be apprehended. I will concede that the knee on neck is inhumane. However, to my knowledge this doesn't kill people. The drugs in his system (especially fentanyl) definitely played a larger part in his death than the knee hold.


If you support Chauvin being imprisoned, you're essentially supporting the BLM/Antifa/commie etc. narrative. I know it sucks that there isn't any room for nuance in debates surrounding these topics, but unfortunately that's how political discourse is right now.

I just watched the video today and it confirms what I have read. Sure, the drugs are a factor that for some reason the media and many celebrities and politicians accidentally overlook. I am fine with the initial takedown. However, after he stopped resisting and was handcuffed and subdued, they should have put him in the squad car. There were 4 police officers present. If Floyd started fighting again after being lifted up, they have the right to take him down again or hit him with a baton.

Chauvin went way too far and was too aggressive. If it was 30 seconds too long, I could accept the mistake. However, this is a clear case of the policeman going too far.

There is room for nuance. I am not a fan of blue lives matter even though I will support the police in many cases (although sometimes they are forced to enforce unfair laws passed by bad politicians). This is because I am against hate crime laws. If a police officer is killed, the criminal should be punished the same as if he killed a cook or a plumber. To me, most violent crimes are 'hate crimes.' I feel the same about 'hate crime laws' regarding religion and race and sex. If I attack you because you are Jewish or black or white or I attack you because you are wearing a New York Yankees shirt or you have green hair, I should be treated the same in the court of law.

Blue Lives Matter - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Blue Lives Matter is a countermovement in the United States advocating that those who are prosecuted and convicted of killing law enforcement officers should be sentenced under hate crime statutes

I dislike BLM because they criticize All Lives Matter. Basically, their group seems very racially motivated. I dislike Antifa and Communism because these two groups seem to be quite totalitarian in many ways.

Many issues are not black and white only even if many Americans want to make things that way.

 

[Thomas More]

I just watched the video today and it confirms what I have read. Sure, the drugs are a factor that for some reason the media and many celebrities and politicians accidentally overlook. I am fine with the initial takedown. However, after he stopped resisting and was handcuffed and subdued, they should have put him in the squad car. There were 4 police officers present. If Floyd started fighting again after being lifted up, they have the right to take him down again or hit him with a baton.

Chauvin went way too far and was too aggressive. If it was 30 seconds too long, I could accept the mistake. However, this is a clear case of the policeman going too far.

There is room for nuance. I am not a fan of blue lives matter even though I will support the police in many cases (although sometimes they are forced to enforce unfair laws passed by bad politicians). This is because I am against hate crime laws. If a police officer is killed, the criminal should be punished the same as if he killed a cook or a plumber. To me, most violent crimes are 'hate crimes.' I feel the same about 'hate crime laws' regarding religion and race and sex. If I attack you because you are Jewish or black or white or I attack you because you are wearing a New York Yankees shirt or you have green hair, I should be treated the same in the court of law.

Blue Lives Matter - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Blue Lives Matter is a countermovement in the United States advocating that those who are prosecuted and convicted of killing law enforcement officers should be sentenced under hate crime statutes

I dislike BLM because they criticize All Lives Matter. Basically, their group seems very racially motivated. I dislike Antifa and Communism because these two groups seem to be quite totalitarian in many ways.

Many issues are not black and white only even if many Americans want to make things that way.

(((Accidentally overlook)))

Are you serious right now?

(((Could have hit him with a baton)))!!?

You are obviously a fed poster. As if the safe knee on the neck was unacceptable, but it would have been alright for them to have beat him with nightsticks.

Weak fedposting!

Edit: I have known other men who were otherwise rational be unable to accept that the knee on the neck is safe, because it looks mean. Cops probably need some other alternative (besides the tried and true nightstick beat down, which also gets unjustified complaints). Obviously some means of restraining thugs is needed when they resist arrest. I think a bullet in the skull is fair, since I am easily able to avoid resisting arrest.

 

[get2choppaaa]

I just watched the video today and it confirms what I have read. Sure, the drugs are a factor that for some reason the media and many celebrities and politicians accidentally overlook. I am fine with the initial takedown. However, after he stopped resisting and was handcuffed and subdued, they should have put him in the squad car. There were 4 police officers present. If Floyd started fighting again after being lifted up, they have the right to take him down again or hit him with a baton.

Chauvin went way too far and was too aggressive. If it was 30 seconds too long, I could accept the mistake. However, this is a clear case of the policeman going too far.

There is room for nuance. I am not a fan of blue lives matter even though I will support the police in many cases (although sometimes they are forced to enforce unfair laws passed by bad politicians). This is because I am against hate crime laws. If a police officer is killed, the criminal should be punished the same as if he killed a cook or a plumber. To me, most violent crimes are 'hate crimes.' I feel the same about 'hate crime laws' regarding religion and race and sex. If I attack you because you are Jewish or black or white or I attack you because you are wearing a New York Yankees shirt or you have green hair, I should be treated the same in the court of law.

Blue Lives Matter - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Blue Lives Matter is a countermovement in the United States advocating that those who are prosecuted and convicted of killing law enforcement officers should be sentenced under hate crime statutes

I dislike BLM because they criticize All Lives Matter. Basically, their group seems very racially motivated. I dislike Antifa and Communism because these two groups seem to be quite totalitarian in many ways.

Many issues are not black and white only even if many Americans want to make things that way.

Except Chauvin followed the training and TTPs for the department. I dont mean to be rude, but I dont think you know what you're talking about.

The prone position is one of the safest ways to keep someone subdued. When someone is resisting and has behavior commensurate with drug induced belligerency, you get control of the scene, wait for paramedics to administer narcan once you've got the scene safe, and take the dude to jail.

People may not like the optics, but in the situation he didn't do anything that contributed to flyod's death...

Cops jobs are to get security in of the scene, not save people's lives. This is a misconception and there is a lot of emotion being expressed by folks who have no experience or training in this.

 

[stugatz]

I think that, at worst, it could be argued that Chauvin's actions didn't *help* George Floyd, and may have made the symptoms of his overdose worse. However, Floyd was almost certainly going to die from an overdose anyway, and it's just splitting hairs to say that Chauvin killed him when his actions wouldn't have even hurt the average person. Even involuntary manslaughter or negligent homicide would have been too stiff. Third degree murder would have been ridiculous.

What exactly is "second degree unintentional homicide" though? I don't know if most states even have that charge.

 

[MartyMcFly]

(((Accidentally overlook)))

Are you serious right now?

(((Could have hit him with a baton)))!!?

You are obviously a fed poster. As if the safe knee on the neck was unacceptable, but it would have been alright for them to have beat him with nightsticks.

Weak fedposting!

Edit: I have known other men who were otherwise rational be unable to accept that the knee on the neck is safe, because it looks mean. Cops probably need some other alternative (besides the tried and true nightstick beat down, which also gets unjustified complaints). Obviously some means of restraining thugs is needed when they resist arrest. I think a bullet in the skull is fair, since I am easily able to avoid resisting arrest.

I was being sarcastic about 'accidentally overlook' just as BLM 'accidentally overlooks' black on black crime or black police officers killed by black thugs. That is why I think BLM is hypocritical.

I meant that if the George Floyd stopped resisting arrest and calmed down and then the cop tried to put him in the squad car and he started fighting again, the police officer would have the right to take him down again or hit him with a baton (I didn't say hit him in the head-the legs or stomach would be better-we don't want to kill him unless necessary). Pepper spray could also be used. You are right though, liberals would complain unless the police officer were dark skinned.

I wondered about an alternative where only black and Hispanic police are hired for cities with black majorities and high crime (or possibly in high-crime cities with populations over 40% black). This way, liberals would not be able to complain anymore about police violence. You wouldn't see many liberals complain if a black police officer kills a thug and they definitely couldn't complain if the entire police force were non-white. Of course, the Hispanics would have to be darker skinned Latinos because liberals will complain about light skinned Latinos getting jobs (remember the backlash that 'In the Heights' got despite being mostly Latino actors proving 'minority' is not enough to save you from liberal whining-you need to be dark skinned as well). The current white police officers could be given early retirement options or transferred to other government jobs for equal or better pay. The police force could then be free to be as tough as it takes with no worries about the reaction of the mainstream media or liberal troublemakers. I would love to see such an experiment done and the results and reaction.

Yes, this is drastic and will not happen. However, I think this would be a foolproof solution. The 'honorable' Mayor Lightfoot already showed us that it is perfectly acceptable to be racist, as long as it is anti-white (notice how she refused to speak to white reporters with few complaints and received few complaints).

Don't be so quick to defend the police. We have to be balanced and look at the facts carefully. Both sides are guilty of jumping top conclusions. I remember reading about one case a few years ago that was quite brutal. Police are important but they are not always the good guys. I don't think the police ever have the right to shove a broomstick up a man's butt. He was clearly tortured.

Abner Louima - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Thomas More]

I was being sarcastic about 'accidentally overlook' just as BLM 'accidentally overlooks' black on black crime or black police officers killed by black thugs. That is why I think BLM is hypocritical.

I meant that if the George Floyd stopped resisting arrest and calmed down and then the cop tried to put him in the squad car and he started fighting again, the police officer would have the right to take him down again or hit him with a baton (I didn't say hit him in the head-the legs or stomach would be better-we don't want to kill him unless necessary). Pepper spray could also be used. You are right though, liberals would complain unless the police officer were dark skinned.

I wondered about an alternative where only black and Hispanic police are hired for cities with black majorities and high crime (or possibly in high-crime cities with populations over 40% black). This way, liberals would not be able to complain anymore about police violence. You wouldn't see many liberals complain if a black police officer kills a thug and they definitely couldn't complain if the entire police force were non-white. Of course, the Hispanics would have to be darker skinned Latinos because liberals will complain about light skinned Latinos getting jobs (remember the backlash that 'In the Heights' got despite being mostly Latino actors proving 'minority' is not enough to save you from liberal whining-you need to be dark skinned as well). The current white police officers could be given early retirement options or transferred to other government jobs for equal or better pay. The police force could then be free to be as tough as it takes with no worries about the reaction of the mainstream media or liberal troublemakers. I would love to see such an experiment done and the results and reaction.

Yes, this is drastic and will not happen. However, I think this would be a foolproof solution. The 'honorable' Mayor Lightfoot already showed us that it is perfectly acceptable to be racist, as long as it is anti-white (notice how she refused to speak to white reporters with few complaints and received few complaints).

Don't be so quick to defend the police. We have to be balanced and look at the facts carefully. Both sides are guilty of jumping top conclusions. I remember reading about one case a few years ago that was quite brutal. Police are important but they are not always the good guys. I don't think the police ever have the right to shove a broomstick up a man's butt. He was clearly tortured.

Abner Louima - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If you resisted arrest, would you rather have the known-to-be-safe knee on the neck, or the beat down with night sticks? You keep saying they could have let him up, then would be justified with the night sticks if he resisted, but as the video shows, that moment already came and went earlier in the arrest.

So, at the point in the arrest that everyone talks about, would you rather have the safe knee in the neck, or the four cop beat down with night sticks?

By the way, let's assume the cops aren't bloodless robots like Zuckerberg, and have any kind of justified human response to the situation.

 

[MartyMcFly]

If you resisted arrest, would you rather have the known-to-be-safe knee on the neck, or the beat down with night sticks? You keep saying they could have let him up, then would be justified with the night sticks if he resisted, but as the video shows, that moment already came and went earlier in the arrest.

So, at the point in the arrest that everyone talks about, would you rather have the safe knee in the neck, or the four cop beat down with night sticks?

By the way, let's assume the cops aren't bloodless robots like Zuckerberg, and have any kind of human response to the situation.

When I say 'hit with a nightstick' I don't mean 4 cops hitting him 10 times each. I mean 1-2 hits to bring him down. The medical experts state his main cause of death was not drug overdose. I wonder if he pressed down on the neck too hard. I am not an expert and I guess I am hoping the medical experts can be trusted. Do you think the medical experts were corrupt and the judge and jury was also corrupt? I will say that the trial might have been corrupt. I think holding the trial in Minneapolis was ridiculous. The trial should have been moved. The jurors knew that a not-guilty verdict or a light sentence would put their lives in danger.

The medical examiner found[59][60] that Floyd's heart stopped while he was being restrained and that his death was a homicide,[59] caused by "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression",[2] though fentanyl intoxication and recent methamphetamine use may have increased the likelihood of death.[61][62] A second autopsy, commissioned by Floyd's family,[63][64] also found his death to be a homicide, specifically citing asphyxia due to neck and back compression;[65][63][66] it ruled out that any underlying medical problems had contributed to Floyd's death,[67] and said that Floyd being able to speak while under Chauvin's knee does not mean he could breathe.[67]

George Floyd - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I just found out this: On March 12, 2021, the Minneapolis city council approved a settlement of $27 million to the Floyd family following a wrongful death lawsuit.[68]

I don't understand how his life can be worth so much. He was not a bank president. Would he have earned $27 million if he had survived. Do you think the settlement was excessive?

Remember that I don't admire Floyd. I am happy the wall was struck and I hope his statues are struck down by God as well. He does not deserve to be thought of as a hero.

Near my apartment, a black man was shot during a drug deal and killed. I actually heard the shot (I thought it was a firecracker). He was a father in his 30's. The guy might have been a loser but he probably didn't deserve to be shot. The city didn't get a statue for him or paint murals of him or turn the parking lot where he died into a shrine. After a few news articles relating to the murder, the capture and trial and sentencing of the murderer, it was forgotten about. Few cared and outside my city, nobody cared. The police simply caught the drug dealer who killed him (after a few months) and gave him 45 years in prison. I guess this was different because the killer was a black man. It is proof that black on black crime is cool. Only white on black crime really matters.

BLM will be taken seriously when ladies and gentlemen burn stores in that man's name and steal athletic shoes in his name and vandalize streets in his name as well as in the name of all other black men killed across the nation, even if they are killed by other blacks (and even if the deaths are cases of manslaughter).

 

[get2choppaaa]

I was being sarcastic about 'accidentally overlook' just as BLM 'accidentally overlooks' black on black crime or black police officers killed by black thugs. That is why I think BLM is hypocritical.

I meant that if the George Floyd stopped resisting arrest and calmed down and then the cop tried to put him in the squad car and he started fighting again, the police officer would have the right to take him down again or hit him with a baton (I didn't say hit him in the head-the legs or stomach would be better-we don't want to kill him unless necessary). Pepper spray could also be used. You are right though, liberals would complain unless the police officer were dark skinned.

I wondered about an alternative where only black and Hispanic police are hired for cities with black majorities and high crime (or possibly in high-crime cities with populations over 40% black). This way, liberals would not be able to complain anymore about police violence. You wouldn't see many liberals complain if a black police officer kills a thug and they definitely couldn't complain if the entire police force were non-white. Of course, the Hispanics would have to be darker skinned Latinos because liberals will complain about light skinned Latinos getting jobs (remember the backlash that 'In the Heights' got despite being mostly Latino actors proving 'minority' is not enough to save you from liberal whining-you need to be dark skinned as well). The current white police officers could be given early retirement options or transferred to other government jobs for equal or better pay. The police force could then be free to be as tough as it takes with no worries about the reaction of the mainstream media or liberal troublemakers. I would love to see such an experiment done and the results and reaction.

Yes, this is drastic and will not happen. However, I think this would be a foolproof solution. The 'honorable' Mayor Lightfoot already showed us that it is perfectly acceptable to be racist, as long as it is anti-white (notice how she refused to speak to white reporters with few complaints and received few complaints).

Don't be so quick to defend the police. We have to be balanced and look at the facts carefully. Both sides are guilty of jumping top conclusions. I remember reading about one case a few years ago that was quite brutal. Police are important but they are not always the good guys. I don't think the police ever have the right to shove a broomstick up a man's butt. He was clearly tortured.

Abner Louima - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

What are you talking about dude? We are talking about a video and an event and facts and you're bringing up something that is unrelated to Floyd and Chauvin becuase it is police brutality.

No one ever said the police are always right. Nor did they justify sodomy.