Germ vs Terrain theories of medicine

Roosh

Cardinal
Orthodox
So recently I've been exposed to the terrain theory of medicine. It contradicts the germ theory which states that all infections come from an invading bacteria or virus. Terrain theory states that our body is an ecosystem to all sorts of bacteria and viruses. Sickness is caused when that ecosystem loses balance (due to environmental or lifestyle problems) and allows microorganisms that coexist with us peacefully to now cause infection.

Terrain theory was promoted by Antoine Bechamp, a peer of Louis Pasteur. The latter attempted to use false allegations to silence him, reminding me of the relationship between Nikola Tesla and Thomas Edison. Pasteur was the promoter of germ theory because corporations liked the idea of simply giving chemicals or medicines ($$$) to cure people. Since the early 20th century, the entirety of medicine has been dominated by germ theory, which a lot of people are intuitively doubting in light of coronavirus.
Whereas most Americans probably have heard of Louis Pasteur (1822–1895), it is doubtful that many are familiar with the name and work of Antoine Béchamp (1816–1908). The two nineteenth-century researchers were scientific contemporaries, compatriots and fellow members of the French Academy of Science, but key differences in their views on biology and disease pathology led to a prolonged rivalry both within and outside of the Academy.1

Béchamp was the more brilliant thinker, but Pasteur had political connections, including Emperor Napoleon III. Reportedly not above “plagiarising and distorting Béchamp’s research,”2 Pasteur achieved fame and fortune largely because his views “were in tune with the science and the politics of his day.”1 Meanwhile, mainstream medical historians relegated Béchamp’s ideas—not as attractive to conventional thinkers—to the intellectual dustbin.3

Pasteur’s promotion of germ theory (a flawed notion that he did not so much “discover” as repackage) has remained “dear to pharmaceutical company executives’ hearts” up to the present day,4 having laid the groundwork for “synthetic drugs, chemotherapy, radiation, surgical removal of body parts and vaccines” to become the “medicine of choice.”5 The unshakeable belief that there is one microbe for every illness is so ingrained as the “controlling medical idea for the Western world” that competing ideas about disease causation still have difficulty gaining traction.6

Over a century after the two Frenchmen’s demise, why bother to revisit their place in history? The answer is that the scientific (and industry) bias in favor of Pasteur’s model has not served the public’s health—to the contrary. Two decades into the twenty-first century, dismal national and international health statistics utterly belie the hype about medical advances.7 In the U.S., for example, over half of all children have one or more chronic conditions,8 as does a comparable proportion of millennials9 and up to 62 percent of Medicaid-population adults.10 Most health care dollars spent in the U.S. (86 percent) are for patients with at least one chronic condition.10 Similar trends are on the rise around the world.11

For those who are able to steel themselves against medical propaganda, it is abundantly clear that the Pasteurian paradigm has failed to deliver. With Americans in such a shocking state of ill health,12 we cannot afford to let the profit-driven pharmaceutical perspective continue to dominate. As one writer more bluntly puts it, “The sooner we get over the legacy of Pasteur’s fake science and get back to reality the better.”13
Béchamp’s research revealed that the inner condition of a person’s cellular terrain determined whether disease would manifest or spread in the body. He proved through rigorous scientific method that disease was not due to germs attacking the body from the outside as Louis Pasteur later convinced the world. What you eat, breathe, drink, and bathe in are the primary factors that determine your body’s inner condition.

Instead of incorporating Béchamp’s discoveries to bring about a health revolution in the world and save countless lives, greedy, power hungry industrialists decided to ostracize his work and put their dollars behind Louis Pasteur’s "Germ Theory of Disease" because it was a way for them to build a colossal pharmaceutical/medical empire for profit. No pharmaceutical company in the world today cares one iota about curing disease. They want to control disease and focus on symptom suppression so they can make huge profits by getting you to become a lifelong user until you die from their poison. That’s why they go to war against disease with all their "anti" this and "anti" that medications instead of addressing the inner condition of a patient and re-establishing homeostasis in the body.
A video introduction:

 
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Roosh

Cardinal
Orthodox
I was searching for terrain theory on YouTube and found this video:


It's from a channel that deals with homeopathy, a field which I have been told is "bad" medicine, so of course I have a negative opinion about it. Yet the video blew me away. It makes so much sense. I'm at the point where I simply do not trust modern doctors. Then again, I'm not at the stage where I would visit a homeopath.

I don't want to become obsessed with my body. I'm here to serve God, not have perfect health, so the main message I'm getting so far from my alternative medical research is be very careful about taking medicines or other treatments that simply alleviate physical symptoms without addressing the root cause. Focus first on lifestyle and general health changes. This is a message that the forum has already promoted for a long time (i.e. baking soda, fitness, etc).
 
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Elipe

Pelican
Protestant
My first impression is that terrain theory strikes me more like a superset of germ theory. Terrain theory doesn't do away with the idea that external germs can invade your body and multiply to the point of causing disease (disease symptoms are typically driven by immune responses, like the common cold is driven by your immune system increasing mucus production to trap more microbes and drive them out of your respiratory system). After all, it seems logical that there is going to be a bit of lag as your immune system has to first detect the invading germ and then produce antibodies against that germ as well as spreading hormones and other cell signals around your body to enlist more of the system in the fight.

But this can be interpreted as consistent with terrain theory because in the same way that introducing a foreign species into an ecosystem can disrupt the ecosystem, a foreign microbe can disrupt your body's ecosystem until it adapts to handle that microbe. But terrain theory also incorporates things like gut bacteria as examples of how there are places in your body where microbes are encouraged to colonize for mutual benefit to the body and to them.

And yes, modern medicine really needs to start teaching more general healthfulness rather than just throw pills at everything.
 
I have been looking into terrain theory recently too. I think it is plausible but I'm still not sure if I believe it yet. One big piece of personal evidence for germ theory that sticks in my head is that my father's boss tested positive for Coronavirus about a month ago, and her friend also tested positive. I'm not sure if this means that one of them spread the virus to the other through contact, or that they were just living similar lifestyles which happened to activated the virus at the same time. They both seam plausible to me, but I'm still not sure how much evidence supports both sides. I'm definitely going to do more research into germ vs terrain theory. Thank you Roosh for starting a thread for this topic.
 

Rob Banks

Pelican
Do you believe that some diseases and physical ailments can be caused by demons, and that those demons can be passed down generation to generation?
 

EndlessGravity

Pelican
Protestant
A few ideas on this topic that have made me take interest in this theory:
  1. Brushing your teeth regularly apparently makes you more susceptible to different mouth cancers
  2. The link between HPV and the increased risk of certain cancers
  3. Dentistry is almost all quack science and I had started suspecting as much from the wildly different things different dentist would tell me
  4. From studies, a large portion of medical advice given by doctors isn't evidence based
  5. When my wife and I had children, the doctors we spoke with were arrogant, stupid, and willing to lie about easily verifiable info
 

FactusIRX

 
Banned
Dentistry is almost all quack science and I had started suspecting as much from the wildly different things different dentist would tell me
Dentistry is the most corrupt profession in Canada (probably the same in the United States). When I was a student, my "dentist" told me every time I visited him that I had one or two cavities. I trusted him because, at that time, I was the most blue pilled simp that walked the earth. When I returned back to my hometown and returned to my trusted family dentist that I have known since a child (and whose father I also saw as a dentist), he told me that it was near certain that I didn't have any cavities and the dentist was just paying his bills by mutilating me. Since I have seen my regular dentist, I have not had any dental work in 3 years beyond an annual cleaning.

I don't know enough about the difference between terrain and germ theory, but I will say that the number 1 thing that has improved my anxiety more than anything is taking probiotics. I'm 100% convinced the gut/digestive system controls anxiety and depression.
 
A few ideas on this topic that have made me take interest in this theory:
  1. Brushing your teeth regularly apparently makes you more susceptible to different mouth cancers
  2. The link between HPV and the increased risk of certain cancers
  3. Dentistry is almost all quack science and I had started suspecting as much from the wildly different things different dentist would tell me
  4. From studies, a large portion of medical advice given by doctors isn't evidence based
  5. When my wife and I had children, the doctors we spoke with were arrogant, stupid, and willing to lie about easily verifiable info

What you said about dentistry is very true. Unfortunately I had to learn the hard way. I never went to the dentist when I was younger because my family couldn't afford it. They said I needed braces to straighten my teeth, but my family couldn't afford it so I never got them. Thankfully I dodged that bullet. I brushed my teeth about once a week all the way up through high school. The few times I had gone to a dentist, they said I had perfectly healthy teeth. But two years ago, I chipped a tooth because of a cavity. So, I went to the dentist and he drilled the cavity and put in an amalgum filling. I wasn't warned that amalgum was basically just mercury. It's been two years since then and it turns out he didn't drill the cavity right and there has been tooth decay festering under the filling and slowly rotting out my tooth. I can't get rid of it because there is a filling blocking it in. My dentist said that he's going to have to give me a root canal and if that doesn't work, he's going to have to pull the tooth and put in a fake one. I honestly don't know what to do. I know I have a problem that the dentist caused with my filling, but I really don't want to rely on him to fix the problem he created in the first place. Long story short, dentistry is a pseudoscience.
 

EndlessGravity

Pelican
Protestant
I honestly don't know what to do.

Without really knowing more and I'm no dentist or doctor, I would say don't do it. I've been told the exact same thing. I have the old fillings too, which the science seems to suggest now, that if they aren't a real issue, to leave them. Dentists do way more root canals than they should, again from studies. I was told I needed a $5000 fake tooth after they had to pull a back tooth (getting the pull was likely necessary). They said if I didn't do it that I would have huge problems pretty soon.

That was 5 years ago.

If it's not infected or doesn't need a cleaning, I don't bother going anymore.
 
Without really knowing more and I'm no dentist or doctor, I would say don't do it. I've been told the exact same thing. I have the old fillings too, which the science seems to suggest now, that if they aren't a real issue, to leave them. Dentists do way more root canals than they should, again from studies. I was told I needed a $5000 fake tooth after they had to pull a back tooth (getting the pull was likely necessary). They said if I didn't do it that I would have huge problems pretty soon.

That was 5 years ago.

If it's not infected or doesn't need a cleaning, I don't bother going anymore.

Thank you for the advice. The affected tooth has been hurting recently and it is still extremely sensitive to cold. It also hurts when I put pressure on it, like when I chew things. I think I probably need to go in to a dentist to get it fixed, but I really don't want to go to my normal dentist who caused the problem in the first place. He is extremely affordable though and he doesn't care that I don't have insurance. Also because of Coronavirus I don't think many dentists are taking new clients. So I'm probably going to be forced to go back to the quack. I'm going to wait as long as I can though until the pain and discomfort get worse.
 

Blade Runner

Ostrich
Orthodox
Back to the OP

Germ theory and terrain theory aren't really opposed.

Sickness is always due to losing balance (your immune system). Same thing with cancer; your body if healthy should recognize and attack cancerous cells. This actually happens a ton of times throughout your life but we don't actively know or monitor it (we can't) so we resort to thinking fantastically about what should or shouldn't happen to person X who has Y disease at Z age.
 

Roosh

Cardinal
Orthodox
What you said about dentistry is very true. Unfortunately I had to learn the hard way. I never went to the dentist when I was younger because my family couldn't afford it. They said I needed braces to straighten my teeth, but my family couldn't afford it so I never got them. Thankfully I dodged that bullet. I brushed my teeth about once a week all the way up through high school. The few times I had gone to a dentist, they said I had perfectly healthy teeth. But two years ago, I chipped a tooth because of a cavity. So, I went to the dentist and he drilled the cavity and put in an amalgum filling. I wasn't warned that amalgum was basically just mercury. It's been two years since then and it turns out he didn't drill the cavity right and there has been tooth decay festering under the filling and slowly rotting out my tooth. I can't get rid of it because there is a filling blocking it in. My dentist said that he's going to have to give me a root canal and if that doesn't work, he's going to have to pull the tooth and put in a fake one. I honestly don't know what to do. I know I have a problem that the dentist caused with my filling, but I really don't want to rely on him to fix the problem he created in the first place. Long story short, dentistry is a pseudoscience.
I'd leave it alone until the pain starts. Also you may want to research root canals. It essentially kills the tooth, but leaves the dead tooth in place. A documentary (discredited by dentists of course) suggests root canals cause people chronic health problems: https://www.phillyvoice.com/dental-...science-root-cause-film-cancer-heart-disease/
 

Roosh

Cardinal
Orthodox
Back to the OP

Germ theory and terrain theory aren't really opposed.

Sickness is always due to losing balance (your immune system). Same thing with cancer; your body if healthy should recognize and attack cancerous cells. This actually happens a ton of times throughout your life but we don't actively know or monitor it (we can't) so we resort to thinking fantastically about what should or shouldn't happen to person X who has Y disease at Z age.
Terrain theory is suitable for acute and chronic conditions that don't require surgery or emergency hospitalization, and where you can do a self-analysis of your bodily and mental state and experiment with natural remedies or lifestyle changes. Modern medicine is needed for required surgeries or emergencies, though the latter is becoming more suspect based on what they did to people with coronavirus (putting them on ventilators).
 

Blade Runner

Ostrich
Orthodox
Yes, but think of what surgeries will not be possible electively (you could call this good or bad for a lot of reasons, cost and consequence are two) if you don't have antibiotics to fend off bugs that will infect. Yes, I am a physician.
 

Roosh

Cardinal
Orthodox
Yes, but think of what surgeries will not be possible electively (you could call this good or bad for a lot of reasons, cost and consequence are two) if you don't have antibiotics to fend off bugs that will infect. Yes, I am a physician.
Exactly, so the surgery should be absolutely required. And I would imagine that many surgeries are preventable with good diet and lifestyle.
 

Blade Runner

Ostrich
Orthodox
Exactly, so the surgery should be absolutely required. And I would imagine that many surgeries are preventable with good diet and lifestyle.

You are right, but there is much nuance here. All people are a mix of genes and environment, most moderns have bad habits now because of the less healthy modern environment as opposed to the old days back breaking environment with less advanced technology. The rat race lifestyle and technology/cubicle world is a trade of different type of suffering from the back breaking days. Survival was paramount in days of old, frankly, with less bullshit from others and women. Survival without depression, anxiety, and globalist manipulation is the current challenge. As Thomas Sowell said masterfully,

"There are no solutions, only tradeoffs."

My better distillation in his context would state, "In complex systems, there are no solutions, only tradeoffs."

The same thing goes on in life, generation to generation.
 

ginsu

Kingfisher
Agnostic
Do you believe that some diseases and physical ailments can be caused by demons, and that those demons can be passed down generation to generation?

And would curses fit in with this ?. I met a girl once who said she was a witch, apparently it ran in the family. She did rituals and spells with some other ''witches'' and could ask for a wish to be fulfilled. Hope she didn't curse me after i pissed her off a few times... who knows
 

Knight.of.Logos

Woodpecker
Orthodox Catechumen
I have a holistic approach to health, so I tend to see things from a terrain theory point-of-view. After listening to some of Dr Andrew Kaufman's research on the Coronavirus, it is very apparent that viruses are a lot less understood than most people think. He (and some other non-approved doctors) seem to think viruses don't even exist. I'm not sure I'd go that far, but I definitely believe that the way viruses are presented to us are not the total truth, if not a downright lie.

Focusing on germs is a very reductionist approach. The body is so complex I like looking at all the complexities and trying to support myself in a multitude of ways that have documented benefit. I have a great diet, take some supplements, exercise, pray, meditate, try to cultivate a good attitude, get plenty of sleep. These things create a good healthy climate in the body. Like other people here have said, it's not that germ theory is false per se, just it only captures a small portion of the total reality.
 

Max Roscoe

Pelican
Orthodox Inquirer
Terrain theory was promoted by Antoine Bechamp, a peer of Louis Pasteur. The latter attempted to use false allegations to silence him, reminding me of the relationship between Nikola Tesla and Thomas Edison. Pasteur was the promoter of germ theory because corporations liked the idea of simply giving chemicals or medicines ($$$) to cure people. Since the early 20th century, the entirety of medicine has been dominated by germ theory, which a lot of people are intuitively doubting in light of coronavirus.

Pasteur recanted his germ theory before dying. He stated: "Bechamp was right. The germ is nothing. The terrain is everything."
Modern science ignored this and went on to develop vaccine medicine anyway, based on Pasteur's old idea, and even named the boiling of fresh juices, which destroys many of the useful nutrients, after him. I know of only one brand of fresh juice that is not "pasteurized." This was probably done because Pasteur was just a shill for these corporations in the first place, and they didn't care about the true cause of disease.

I tend to avoid doctors, but if I did need to see one, I would choose one who studied in the osteopathic tradition. There are two degrees awarded to general medical doctors. MDs practice allopathic medicine, which is focused on treating symptoms and comes from a germ theory worldview. DOs practice osteopathic medicine which is a more holistic / whole body health / nutrition based method. Both are medical doctors, they are not "alternative health" or eastern medicine type doctors, but are part of the medical establishment and they are treated functionally the same by the medical system (meaning you can see either one under a health insurance plan--I'm sure MDs look down on ODs).

The human body is made up of about 10% human cells and 90% bacteria cells, which we host inside and outside our body at all times. So we are really more bacteria ecosystems than mammals. Germ theory focuses only on what is happening to the human cells, where terrain theory acknowledges that we will always be hosting bacteria, but what is going on with our body (terrain) that is causing the wrong and harmful bacteria, virus, etc. to be there?

I have a holistic approach to health, so I tend to see things from a terrain theory point-of-view. After listening to some of Dr Andrew Kaufman's research on the Coronavirus, it is very apparent that viruses are a lot less understood than most people think. He (and some other non-approved doctors) seem to think viruses don't even exist. I'm not sure I'd go that far, but I definitely believe that the way viruses are presented to us are not the total truth, if not a downright lie.
The way we understand viruses is extremely primitive. Saying a virus doesn't exist is not to say they are figments of our imagination, but the way we understand a virus to exist today is similar to the way prior civilizations thought the sky was filled with ether, because we didn't yet understand the molecular makeup of the atmosphere, how planetary bodies can rotate in the void of space via the force of gravity, and other things. Yes, the ether didn't "exist" but it was really that they didn't understand what the ether was. We don't understand what viruses are today. Viruses don't even really "live" or die the way any other organism does.
 
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