Germ vs Terrain theories of medicine

Blade Runner

Ostrich
Orthodox
Reasoning by extreme can be very useful, so I'll cut to the case of the obvious weak point in the 'terrain" argument:

Go eat potato salad that just sat out, uncovered for the whole day. Let's also say it was during warm weather.

Then tell me how your 'terrain" deals with that.
 

Max Roscoe

Ostrich
Orthodox Inquirer
That is a misunderstanding of germ theory.
Terrain theory does not say that we can eat raw meat, never wash our hands, or walk on water.

If mayonaise sits out, it creates a terrain that is conducive to certain bacteria that are harmful to humans. Eating such a substance will be harmful to humans.
 

kurtybro

Woodpecker
Reasoning by extreme can be very useful, so I'll cut to the case of the obvious weak point in the 'terrain" argument:

Go eat potato salad that just sat out, uncovered for the whole day. Let's also say it was during warm weather.

Then tell me how your 'terrain" deals with that.

I could be wrong but i seem to recall one their arguments being that it's the food, water and air you intake that affects your internal health and can cause disease (toxemia), not a transmissible smaller-than-microscopic virus thats floating around from person to person. Apparently your body sheds something that's similar to a virus in response to poor internal health, which is what the tests are picking up. Don't quote me i could have completely butchered this. I think the crux of the argument is about the idea of transmissibility, that diseases cannot travel from one person and infect another, and that the poor resulting health is a matter of other factors that are common in group of presumed "infected" people.
 

Blade Runner

Ostrich
Orthodox
That is a misunderstanding of germ theory.
Terrain theory does not say that we can eat raw meat, never wash our hands, or walk on water.

If mayonaise sits out, it creates a terrain that is conducive to certain bacteria that are harmful to humans. Eating such a substance will be harmful to humans.

I understand, the problem is that you can walk the logic back to ever small numbers of offending "bacteria" that do in fact cause the problems we see. It suggests that theoretically if "in balance" we should never get sick. Do you see the problem with this?

I do believe that a lot of people are unhealthy and susceptible to diseases that perhaps they "shouldn't get", because of their behaviors. But a part of terrain is also genetic profile, and that is always exposed via the current environment - favorable genetic profiles selected relative to the others, unless we have advancements in hygiene or medical technology.
 

Roosh

Cardinal
Orthodox
But a part of terrain is also genetic profile, and that is always exposed via the current environment - favorable genetic profiles selected relative to the others, unless we have advancements in hygiene or medical technology.
Genetics is the answer they give when they don't know. "Doctor, why am I this why? Why do I have these symptoms?" Answer: "It's your genes!" Of course genetics plays a factor, but not in a way that doctors can actually prove. It's just a default answer that preserves their theories.
 

DenizenJane

Woodpecker
Non-Christian
Genetics is the answer they give when they don't know. "Doctor, why am I this why? Why do I have these symptoms?" Answer: "It's your genes!" Of course genetics plays a factor, but not in a way that doctors can actually prove. It's just a default answer that preserves their theories.

Was debating making a whole new health thread on this kind of thing. One of the sweetest gifts the Creator will ever give us is bits and pieces of natural resistance, probably by genetics, to just about any environmental health problem known to man. This is why medicine is the one field based strictly on percentages. A prescription that helps 90% of people is medicalspeak for 'this stuff really works'. Other sciences don't quite work that way; we never say that we observe gravity working about 90% of the time.

Someplace, somewhere there's some woman with a barbie doll figure who can also throw down fast food regularly like its nothing. Because her metabolism is a champ. And her female friends probably hate her for it. Now, she and others like her are an utter minority on this planet, but I'm saying that they exist.

I remember visiting Gramps at the retirement home, and depending on the time of day, you would see this old lady outside. She had to be in her mid-nineties. The first couple times I thought I was witnessing a Silver Alert in progress, and that I would have go inside and alert them that one of their residents got confused and wandered away. Now, this biddy with her snow-white hair and her walker would hobble to the middle of the parking lot and suddenly stop.

She then would slowly rummage into the fabric pouch velcroed to her walker. She would then pull out a bic and a cigarette and light up.

Don't smoke, kids. But I still found it hilarious. I'll bet that woman was probably the one of the happiest people in the world even without the nicotine buzz, because she discovered her God given niche; her lungs. She could of been the type worked all her life in an asbestos-laced environment and retired without so much as a cough.

The message here isn't to ignore your health. Because by the time you figure out what your body is especially weak to, its almost too late. I'm saying all these onslaughts of modern maladies will never ever conquer us all. God had provided us a wide array of genes to ward off the nastiest environments and habits on this planet.

I believe the modern world causes a lot of our health problems, from things like nearsightedness to crooked teeth, all of which are broad topics for another day. Additionally, the modern world provides (expensive) fixes for these same things. Even when these things affect so much of the population that they reach critical mass and gets Social Problem status, there will always be bodies that (thankfully) never get with the program. We should be very grateful for this.
 
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In reading this I couldn’t go past thinking how counter-productive the lock-downs are from a terrain theory perspective. By putting people into stressful situations, limiting social contact, keeping people inside, etc, the immune system is made weaker, body thrown out of balance, and the chance of contracting the virus goes up. Same with hand sanitizer, masks, etc.

The risk of death from coronavirus is (chance of contracting the virus) * (incident fatality rate), which might roughly map to terrain theory * germ theory. The first bit is pretty much ignored by the medical community.
 

Max Roscoe

Ostrich
Orthodox Inquirer
I should add that terrain theory is how I have understood the female situation for quite a while.

The problem with women today is not something I blame on the woman herself. The problem is not the feminist. The problem is the terrain that causes feminism to grow and spread. The problem is not that the slut enjoys promiscuity, it is that sluts are not shamed. The problem is not that women are not loyal, but that our society allows and encourages and rewards women who elect a "no fault" divorce instead of honoring her vows. The problem is not that there are no good women out there, but that chastity is not a valued asset in our society, so many women are ruined before their wedding night.

It might make you feel better to blame the individual woman, but age 22 many women are already unable to be good mothers due to their past experiences (of course redemption is always possible, but rare). It's why I don't get angry at women when they do any of the things the modern world supports and encourages them to do. It's like a fat person getting angry for contracting diabetes--what did you expect? Saudi Arabia should expect to have all of our problems in another 50 years. Because they now have the replaced a virtuous culture with a viceful one.

@Roosh with your biology background I think this would make an interesting article.
 

Blade Runner

Ostrich
Orthodox
I should add that terrain theory is how I have understood the female situation for quite a while.

The problem with women today is not something I blame on the woman herself. The problem is not the feminist. The problem is the terrain that causes feminism to grow and spread. The problem is not that the slut enjoys promiscuity, it is that sluts are not shamed. The problem is not that women are not loyal, but that our society allows and encourages and rewards women who elect a "no fault" divorce instead of honoring her vows. The problem is not that there are no good women out there, but that chastity is not a valued asset in our society, so many women are ruined before their wedding night.

It might make you feel better to blame the individual woman, but age 22 many women are already unable to be good mothers due to their past experiences (of course redemption is always possible, but rare). It's why I don't get angry at women when they do any of the things the modern world supports and encourages them to do. It's like a fat person getting angry for contracting diabetes--what did you expect? Saudi Arabia should expect to have all of our problems in another 50 years. Because they now have the replaced a virtuous culture with a viceful one.

@Roosh with your biology background I think this would make an interesting article.

I think this is a truth that deep down everyone understands but because of various discussions and tangents in conversations, it gets muddled. But good on you, it does bear repeating. When you realize that women by and large don't know any better, yes you come to understand that you are really just complaining about the society. It's sorta like the problem with government and how it relates to its citizens. It's not the criminal that's really the problem, it is the judge or central power that looks the other way or even encourages the bad behavior by not punishing, if not (sadly) rewarding them. Corporations and individuals are always trying to get an edge; and it is the same (instinct) with women - the larger gatekeeper or control of the society has to restrain that acting out. The reason why this is also a double standard for men is that if men act badly they almost can't help but pay a price in any society, but yes, a degenerate society also causes more chaos by influencing foolish men to also join the chaos.
 

Blade Runner

Ostrich
Orthodox
Genetics is the answer they give when they don't know. "Doctor, why am I this why? Why do I have these symptoms?" Answer: "It's your genes!" Of course genetics plays a factor, but not in a way that doctors can actually prove. It's just a default answer that preserves their theories.

This is correct, but it's also more complicated. We live in a world of grass is greener and envy/covetousness model of materialism and part of that paradigm, the longevity idol. Comparisons with others never stop. If you are in pain, don't age as well, or don't live as long, you constantly ask others (doctors too) why characteristic X isn't like it is in person Y. When that occurs, you naturally are focusing on the negative and aren't grateful for what you have. A person in this example may have had lots of other things go his (her) way that he isn't giving thanks to God for: not being fat, having a sound mind, no joint aches, etc. But maybe he lost his hair. Perhaps he is less muscular than another guy, or she is now a fatass who can't get away with eating this food, or drinking as much booze.

Since we don't have enough time in this system as physicians to improve quality, we tend to do our best to preserve life (stop you from dying). If you look at it objectively, you'll see that this actually makes sense. Even if I tell you what to do (you should know already, btw) it still won't make you do it. But I can actually, really solve an issue with an infection, use medications to extend your life, and do surgeries or interventions that will make your heart not poop out.

You, your parents or your community/culture always had more to do with your health than anyone, or anything else.

If we took care of these things, we would actually be grateful for the things that doctors give us, that were just assisting us, along the way. At this point, sadly the materialist has fallen into the trap of modern day laziness and shifting responsibility for his life to others (believing in the magic pill or that others are lucky to be the way they are, envious of therapies that others get, etc).
 

STG

Woodpecker
Its worth your time to start researching retroviruses.

Roughly 10% of the human genome are retroviruses that have been passed down from our ancestors.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endogenous_retrovirus

Our immune systems have the capability to keep these retroviruses in check but because we live in the modern toxic environment the tools the immune system has are shut off and handicapped and the retroviruses can become active.

Nobody really understands what the HERV (Human Endogenous Retro Viruses) are capable of. They are believed to cause cancer, parkinsons, auto immune diseases and all the other serious human diseases that medicine cannot explain.

HIV is one kind of retrovirus that people are familiar with. HIV used to be a death sentence, yet with ART (anti retroviral therapy) people who are HIV positive never develop AIDs. In fact, people who are HIV positive and on ART medications develop fewer cancers then the general population! Are there unknown retroviruses circling among the population, some of which will eventually cause cancer the same way HIV eventually causes AIDs?

So HIV untreated eventually leads to AIDs, where the immune system is destroyed and the body dies from coinfections.

Do the other retroviruses work the same way, if untreated eventually leading to Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, etc.?

There are natural supplements that have the same anti retro viral actions as the strong HIV drugs.

These are 2 videos that have completely changed my perspective:

Judy Mikovits talks about retroviruses

The Link Between Human Retroviruses and Chronic Disease - Dr. Mercola Interviews Judy Mikovits
 

Edin

Robin
Every cloud has a silver lining. The politicians, the media, allopathic medicine and big pharma have all shot themselves in the foot. The corona hoax has accidentally pulled the genie is out of the bottle. The rebirth of the terrain theory is happening and nothing will stop it. Although it might seem otherwise but there a big and exciting shift in human awareness.

I know that the terrain theory has a lot of holes in it but this only because research has been stalled for decades. The biggest hole so far is its inability to explain why some disease seem "contagious". My own research and intuition has led me to believe that disease, like moods, behavior and mentality, are "learned" and copied/mimicked by the cells. For example, we all know that when I grumpy or sad person enters the room we instantly "feel" their mood even without a word being spoken. We might catch their mood or we might not, depending on our psychological terrain conditions AND how close we are to that person. Also, psychology of crowd behaviour demonstrates that in larger scale. So similarly a close circle of people (like a family, for example) tends to share certain conditions.

Cells are emphatic.

The age factor is also crucial as the terrain condition change with age. Which is why children all go through periods of developing certain conditions. The seasons factor create the illusion of mass infections but they are only triggered by weather conditions. The corona hoax itself is a prime example of how a bad idea, like disease, can become "contagious".

The environmental conditions can also create the illusion of contagious disease. Pollution affects everyone, again to a certain degree. The introduction of 5G now creates a radical change in the electromagnetic conditions we live in, so the body tries to adapt and sometimes it does that through a health crisis.

Last but no least, the MIND factor plays a huge role in whether we develop certain conditions or not. You can eat a poisonous mushroom and be totally fine if you can put yourself in a certain state of mind. There's a PLACEBO effect but there's also a NOCEBO effect. Student doctors can develop symptoms of a disease they currently study in details.

Toxins and bugs are all around us and we constantly exchange them between one another but it is the terrain which determines how much of them we will actually "catch". So trying to create a sterile environment is totally counter productive. The conditions on this planet are quite volatile and we can not expect a smooth ride but instead embrace it.

This video provides some good material to get you going.

 
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fortyfive

Kingfisher
Other Christian
Never heard of terrain theory, but I believe fear can produce sickness.

"What I feared has come upon me; what I dreaded has happened to me. I have no peace, no quietness; I have no rest, but only turmoil.” Job 3.25

From people I know, surely the most unhealthy, allergic, weak people are those who are constantly in a state of fear from germs, viruses, what to eat, what to not eat, still anxious, worrying about something.
 
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DanielH

Ostrich
Moderator
Orthodox
I think the truth is closer to terrain theory than the modern consensus of germ theory (especially with regard to viral diseases) but I think there is truth to both. For example I got a stomach bug that left me bed-ridden for about a day and a half. My wife took care of me during that time. Very shortly after recovering my wife caught the same bug, same symptoms, lasted longer. Germ theory would say I gave it to her. Terrain theory would say we probably ate something bad and came down with an illness. I think the truth is more like I was low on vitamin D since it was the winter, it was the holiday season, so I was eating unhealthy food, and that left me vulnerable to a disease, which I contracted, and then gave it to her.
 

Edin

Robin

We are interconnected.​

During this most extreme collapse of human health in our history, we have made a startling discovery: human cells are not at the center of human health. Instead, it’s the cells within our microbiome, functioning as the life-giving soil within our gut and internal organs, which is at the core. The microbiome guides human health and is one of the most important contributors to the functioning of our immune system.



The human cells are not at the center of human health. Instead, it’s the cells within our microbiome, functioning as the life-giving soil within our gut and internal organs, which is at the core.

The same is true for other live creatures, like plants. We all have heard the statement that the soil we grow our plants on are depleted of nutrients and so is our food but a recent study (D. Sparks "Environmental Soil Chemistry", 2nd Edition) has found out that this is not entirely true. Also the soils with the highest nutrients do not predict the best plant growth. The best predictor for plant growth is the fungal-bacteria ratio. Pesticides, herbicides and ploughing destroy the fungal webs in the soil.

The view that bugs are cause of disease is in fact anti-life philosophy and thus Satanic. Not only medicine with their vaccines and other drug, but our whole world view at the moment is anti-life. But like I said in the introduction of this thread, the elite have actually triggered the process of growing awareness of that by overplaying their cards.

When the enemy digs their own grave, hand them a shovel.

I think the truth is closer to terrain theory than the modern consensus of germ theory (especially with regard to viral diseases) but I think there is truth to both. For example I got a stomach bug that left me bed-ridden for about a day and a half. My wife took care of me during that time. Very shortly after recovering my wife caught the same bug, same symptoms, lasted longer. Germ theory would say I gave it to her. Terrain theory would say we probably ate something bad and came down with an illness. I think the truth is more like I was low on vitamin D since it was the winter, it was the holiday season, so I was eating unhealthy food, and that left me vulnerable to a disease, which I contracted, and then gave it to her.

The terrain theory does NOT state that germs can not cause disease - they can do that. Germs do cause illness, when the germs in your body/terrain are out of balance. The solution is to get the germs back into balance.

The terrain theory states that germs are pleomorphic, they change form according to the conditions around them. So if one has a lot of decaying, toxic or dying tissue, certain germs will morph into a type that can clean up the site of decay and that's what they call "bad" bacteria or viruses. But once the site is cleaned up and the balance restored the bacteria can morph back into a "good" type.

If we follow the Germ theory rationale the bugs in your stomach would have kept multiplying and eventually overwhelmed you. But what happened is that those bugs finished their job of cleaning up and you got well. The reason why your wife got affected too is because the bugs had to do some work in her system too.
 
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Johnnyvee

Ostrich
Other Christian
I don`t think that there is something called the "terrain theory" really. The idea that it`s the state of the organism and the immune function that dictates the outcome of infection is not that radical after all. The question is really the emphasis. What matters most and what do you focus on.

With covid the focus is on vaccines, because they make money. (and other more sinister agenda`s as well) You could emphasise the connection between obesity and the metabolic syndrome, both in terms of individual outcome and the effect on the population as a whole. But again that doesn`t happen due to both crappy foods and medications making money again. The same pattern can be extrapolated to anything from cancer to dental caries.

I have little hope of this dynamic changing any time soon. We have all the data in the world supporting this, but is doesn`t make any difference. The average person is not smart enough to see through the veil of lies, and it`s getting worse if anything. The whole body positivity movement is evidence of just that. You just have to take care of yourself as best you can!
 

hkhathaj

Kingfisher
Other Christian
The rebirth of the terrain theory is happening and nothing will stop it.
I have heard that Pasteur himself - who was the father of germ theory - has turned to terrain theory when he got older but that part of his work is not advertised today. I could not find proof for that I only have heard that mentioned by alternative medicine people.

I think the two theories are the two sides of the same coin. Focus moved too much to germ theory and many people ignore the terrain theory.

People also ignore the fact that bacteria on our skin and in our stomach is the main contributor to our health. This means that constant disinfection is not the source of health. But we have to keep a healthy balanced environment for them.

So I believe that in our day to day life we have to concentrate on terrain theory the most. But in case I would have to a man died of ebola then I would use protective clothes and I would also use disinfectant on that. I would not dare to ignore germs.
 
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