Getting a job as a freshly graduate in corona time

[Jose Pedro]

Hi everybody,
I've been lurking on this forum for a long time ago, and I need some advice. Maybe this post should belong to the "Coronavirus" subforum, for obvious reasons; therefore, I'm sorry if I posted on the wrong subforum and I'd like the moderators to move this post to the right subforum.

I'm going to graduate in mechanical engineering in September (just a bachelors degree). I'm studying in a Spanish university, and I plan on leaving Spain ASAP, because of the high youth unemployment rate that there is here, poor salaries we have and messed up split shifts. Unfortunately I still depend on my parents for living, I'm unemployed and have no money, which means that going for paid courses is a no-no for me, because they don't want to pay any for any further education that I might require in order to improve my employability.

For clarification purposes, I want you to know that in Spanish universities, engineering studies are mostly about theory, and you learn very little valuable skills in real life. In my case, I can do some things on Solidworks, some CFD (not the Forex one), and some C programming. I started learning Python but couldn't delve deeper because of the studies; apart from that, I know how to run some FEA simulations for structural elements.

Apart from that, Spain is on its way of becoming a socialist paradise in Europe, and people here actually vote for it to happen, so I'm quite interested on leaving the country whenever possible.

Problem is that we are living this scamdemic of covid 1984, and I was told by a relative of mine who is in the corporate world (he's working in a multinational automotive firm) that non-vaxxed people are not going to be hired. My parents, firm believers of all the official narrative also tell me I won't be hired anywhere unless I take the vaccine. Therefore, leaving is not going to be so easy or simple.

I am not going to take the vaccine no matter what, so I know I'll have a hard time looking for jobs.
I'd like to know what valuable skills could I learn, and in what first world countries is it possible to work without covid passports. This second questions implies not needing a covid passport for travelling to said country. I don't want to forge documents. Do you guys know any website where one can work as a freelancer? Can it be a good idea looking for jobs in foreign companies and working from home? If I have more doubs I'll post them.

Thanks in advance for your advice, sorry if my English is a bit broken, and if there is any of you in a similar situation, don't hesitate to post here, maybe this post can become useful in the future.

Best regards

 

[Acerza89]

learn something practical, like mechanic, electrician, plumbing, carpenter, etc.

 

[kel]

The good news is you have a degree which, I think, is not total BS and is in a relatively in-demand field.

The bad news is your work might require "in person" a bit more than, say, a programming job.

Nonetheless, I'd encourage you to start by just trying to find remote work, which should be easier right now. If they ask tbh just lie I'd say. "You're vaxxed right?" "Oh, I'm all good" and move on, push back any sort of "need proof for in-office" stuff until it becomes a real problem and at that point try to insist on continuing remote work.

You say you want to leave Spain, fair enough, but given you are authorized to work anywhere in the EU and right now a lot of places are remote anyways I'd see if you can avoid that right now. Again, I'd just lie if I were you. If you see a nice potential job in Amsterdam, just tell them you live in Amsterdam or nearby. Once you're in getting rid of a you is a lot harder and if you're producing value even a woke boss will be motivated to feign ignorance and let you slide.

 

[jonNorth]

If I could do it over, I would go straight to construction labor. Though I graduated shortly after '08 recession and was laughed out of the most entry-level construction helper positions

Having income and a purpose will give you sense of peace while you search for career positions in your free time

Mechanical engineering -> industrial projects, water treatment plants, vertical commercial/residential construction

 

[Parmesan]

I can’t speak for Europe, but despite all the hype, white collar STEM is very oversubscribed in America, and the competition is brutal. My friend has a small consultancy, and got hundreds of over qualified applicants after posting a job over a mere weekend. I’d suspect the situation is similar in the EU. You could see if there are places in the EU that are in needs of specific mechanical/electrical trades, as your background would probably make such training quite natural. I can’t imagine the hospitality industry is doing well in Spain right now, but hotels are fun places to work as a young man while you sort things out, and while the pay isn’t remarkable, you could possibly work as an in house junior engineer/maintenance guy to keep your skills growing. I’d start saving some money, maybe investing a small bit in crypto or something along those lines.

 

[Jose Pedro]

The good news is you have a degree which, I think, is not total BS and is in a relatively in-demand field.

The bad news is your work might require "in person" a bit more than, say, a programming job.

Nonetheless, I'd encourage you to start by just trying to find remote work, which should be easier right now. If they ask tbh just lie I'd say. "You're vaxxed right?" "Oh, I'm all good" and move on, push back any sort of "need proof for in-office" stuff until it becomes a real problem and at that point try to insist on continuing remote work.

You say you want to leave Spain, fair enough, but given you are authorized to work anywhere in the EU and right now a lot of places are remote anyways I'd see if you can avoid that right now. Again, I'd just lie if I were you. If you see a nice potential job in Amsterdam, just tell them you live in Amsterdam or nearby. Once you're in getting rid of a you is a lot harder and if you're producing value even a woke boss will be motivated to feign ignorance and let you slide.

Didn't consider remote work, I'll take this into account. Great way to save money while getting experience and not being thrown out of home.

learn something practical, like mechanic, electrician, plumbing, carpenter, etc.

I'll consider it once I have money for living on my own for a while, what a scam university is...

If I could do it over, I would go straight to construction labor. Though I graduated shortly after '08 recession and was laughed out of the most entry-level construction helper positions

Having income and a purpose will give you sense of peace while you search for career positions in your free time

Mechanical engineering -> industrial projects, water treatment plants, vertical commercial/residential construction

I was laughing this out too all the time thinking I'm overqualified for this. Seems I have to broaden my views...

I can’t speak for Europe, but despite all the hype, white collar STEM is very oversubscribed in America, and the competition is brutal. My friend has a small consultancy, and got hundreds of over qualified applicants after posting a job over a mere weekend. I’d suspect the situation is similar in the EU. You could see if there are places in the EU that are in needs of specific mechanical/electrical trades, as your background would probably make such training quite natural. I can’t imagine the hospitality industry is doing well in Spain right now, but hotels are fun places to work as a young man while you sort things out, and while the pay isn’t remarkable, you could possibly work as an in house junior engineer/maintenance guy to keep your skills growing. I’d start saving some money, maybe investing a small bit in crypto or something along those lines.

I've put some very tiny amounts of money in Bitcoin and will keep doing that for sure. Again, thanks for broadening my views, didn't consider the maintenance because there are less qualified studies (higher level than high school though) here that teach you about industrial maintenance.

Thank you all for your help, I'll keep you updated should I get a job, move out, etc

 

[Aboulia]

If I could do it over, I would go straight to construction labor. Though I graduated shortly after '08 recession and was laughed out of the most entry-level construction helper positions

Having income and a purpose will give you sense of peace while you search for career positions in your free time

Mechanical engineering -> industrial projects, water treatment plants, vertical commercial/residential construction

I might second this, just on the basis that you might come up with something to design and improve, potentially patent and make a killing. Apply in construction fields that are relevant to an area you have interest in.

 

[Parmesan]

I was laughing this out too all the time thinking I'm overqualified for this. Seems I have to broaden my views...

No offense, but I’d suggest you check your ego while you are still young. You admitted yourself your degree was mostly a joke. I don’t know about Europe, but skilled construction work can pay pretty decent in the US, and you can progress in your career quickly if you are a strong worker. Doesn’t have to be construction, but I’d suggest dropping the ego and entitlement and come prepared to pay your dues and learn some skills, whatever the role may be. Nobody gives a shit about your degree. Not trying to mean, but that’s the reality, and frankly I wish somebody told me the same when I was younger.

 

[Jose Pedro]

Hi everyone,
I guess it's time for an update. I got a job at the end of November, as a control room operator in a desulphurizator plant that is part of a power plant that is located in As Pontes (Galicia, Spain). For the job I had no interviews, just "Jose Pedro, would you be interested at working with us?". I asked about salary (1800 € before taxes is great for a newbie) and conditions (12 hour-long shifts), and accepted. No experience needed. I was told by the firm that I need to do a medical check-up, some risk prevention course, and I'm in.

Next day after that, I meet my parents and a friend of theirs, and they become a pest about having to take the vaccine or I'll probably won't pass the medical check-up. During the check-up, I was just asked if I took the vax or not and that was all about it. Being adamant on saying that asking about your vaccines is illegal doesn't work with these people. Days later I started working and no one asked about it. Only person who did ask was a Bulgarian guy who seems to be woke (in a good way, not the "clown-world" style) and that was all. I was never asked about vaccines and I got my first salary ever.

Right now I'm considering changing the job despite the salary and I started learning Python. This happened because the boss gave us what I consider to be too poor training, so I feel I'm not fully in control of the plant. I already had a problem because of that, and in case I'm fired, I'd like to have a plan b. Right before that I started applying for jobs in Poland, and if some selection process goes well, I'll give a resignation letter, and one month after that I'm out.

I told my father about this career change, and he is still being a pest about me not being able to travel because I'm not vaccinated (anyone can check in the Spanish Ministry of Foreign Affairs that you can go to Poland with no vaxxes), which is a lie. Actually, some relatives that can help me with getting a job won't help me unless I'm vaccinated. They can sit still and wait.

I also think I might miss the opportunity to see my family again because I don't think I'll be able to enter some restaurants in Santiago de Compostela due to them wanting COVID passes, but it ain't my problem.

Again, thank you to all of you who gave me some feedback. I hope you're all well.

Cheers

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

Being in the EU would somewhere in EE be an option? Maybe try to get a job with a MNC someplace like Poland or Hungary for a few years while you learn the language then try to catch on with a local firm?

 

[Jose Pedro]

Yes, it's a good option as long as Poland doesn't follow Austria or Germany's steps in lockdowns and things for unvaccinated people. About Hungary unfortunately I don't know.
I've read in other forums that it's better to get a job in multinational companies because salaries would be much better (and Polish language would not be needed). Problem would be escalating there. So maybe you have to jump from firm to firm. Learning the language is a must, in my opinion, and maybe it can open some doors.

 

[chance vought]

Whatever job you are at, learn as much as you can. Never stop learning, ask questions and learn how systems work together in the company.
This knowledge is more important than your paycheck, as you can use it to become an independent consultant, start a business in a related field, etc.

The next 10 years will be the most tumultuous in 4 generations. The worlds financial system will fail. The only thing that will keep it from failing is more currency debasement, which is still failing, just more slowly. Whatever money you don’t need to live on, buy Bitcoin. Anything in banks, or any other financial account is not safe and can be either wiped out by a crisis or stolen by your government. Bitcoin is safe from all of that, and you can take it anywhere in the world and can’t be stopped.

I took a new position at my company to make as much money as I can, and gain different skills that will be marketable elsewhere when the collapse starts.

There is nothing to fear from the future…if you are here on this board, you have better information than 99% of your peers. If you keep your Bitcoin, you will have a comfortable life ahead. Many people that are middle class that seem to be doing well will be wiped out.

Godspeed.

 

[pathos]

Yes, it's a good option as long as Poland doesn't follow Austria or Germany's steps in lockdowns and things for unvaccinated people. About Hungary unfortunately I don't know.
I've read in other forums that it's better to get a job in multinational companies because salaries would be much better (and Polish language would not be needed). Problem would be escalating there. So maybe you have to jump from firm to firm. Learning the language is a must, in my opinion, and maybe it can open some doors.

While the EU is crying wolf over their anti-immigration and anti-LGBT stance, Hungary is perfectly happy to go along with the covid-19 narrative as you can see here and here. They were among the first nations to introduce a kind of covid-19 passport. Curiously, I didn't hear the EU protest when Hungary introduced these measures. In fact, in Hungary, the right-wing disparages the left as "anti-vaxxers" because many on the left disapprove of Orban's policy to allow the Russian and Chinese vaccines. It's a curious case of political role reversal and yet another sign that we have to beware of false friends.

I don't want to discourage you by pointing this out but don't underestimate just how deep the rot goes as well as the cultural and linguistic barrier you'll be facing as a Spaniard in the former Eastern Bloc. It's a fact you'd have to work for a multinational if you wanted to make a decent income over there and the question is: do you even want to work for these multinationals and have your life run by HR? I'm talking from experience here. The Tech industry is even worse in that regard (outsourcing galore).

By all means, do learn Python. It never hurts knowing a programming language even if you end up just using it for your own purposes rather than professionally. But the truth is, you'll need much more than just Python if you want to make it as a developer, and there's a lot of Python programmers out there already. Typically you need about three programming languages. Many employers in Europe require a degree or some training. In the absence of that, you'd have to be able to demonstrate your knowledge somehow (say, a github repository of some Python project you've created).

There is a lot of competition out there and the tech field isn't as glorious and glamorous as they make it out to be. Lots of jobs in tech also don't pay as much as advertised. Just wanted to set the record straight because there's a lot of hype surrounding IT. Now, if you know a couple of (human) languages (Spanish, English and perhaps another one?) and have a decent grasp of general IT (Windows, basic networking, Office, etc) then you may be able to find an entry-level job in tech support. Though I usually don't recommend that, the advantage is that you may be able to fill such a role remotely. It's not for everyone, though.

Bottomline is that there is no escaping the covid-19 vaccine issue. It's going to be increasingly difficult no matter where you go in Europe. Job-wise, I've even seen blue collar workers being semi-required to get jabbed. From that perspective, I don't agree with those advising you to just get a blue-collar job. I'd say, focus on getting a remote job. Gain as much experience and on-the-job knowledge as you possibly can, save up as much money as possible (ideally while staying with your parents), and set up your own freelance business once you've found your niche.

Hope this is helpful one way or another. Suerte.

 

[Jose Pedro]

The next 10 years will be the most tumultuous in 4 generations. The worlds financial system will fail. The only thing that will keep it from failing is more currency debasement, which is still failing, just more slowly. Whatever money you don’t need to live on, buy Bitcoin. Anything in banks, or any other financial account is not safe and can be either wiped out by a crisis or stolen by your government. Bitcoin is safe from all of that, and you can take it anywhere in the world and can’t be stopped.

I have some money invested on cryptos. Mostly Bitcoin and I don't withdraw Bitcoin. I plan on buying some more, of course. Regarding to this, the Spanish revenue wants you to declare your cryptos if you have 1000 € or more in cryptos. I'll try to get close to that amount and we'll see later.

On the other hand, I'd like to know where can I buy gold or silver and whether this is a good idea or not.

By all means, do learn Python. It never hurts knowing a programming language even if you end up just using it for your own purposes rather than professionally. But the truth is, you'll need much more than just Python if you want to make it as a developer, and there's a lot of Python programmers out there already. Typically you need about three programming languages. Many employers in Europe require a degree or some training. In the absence of that, you'd have to be able to demonstrate your knowledge somehow (say, a github repository of some Python project you've created).

Right now I'm learning Python basics in an EDX course, and I plan on learning Python for Data Analysis, or Machine Learning. I also know C programming from my university studies, though no fancy stuff about databases (I mostly remember different loops, arrays and use of functions). Apart from that, a friend recommended me to learn Java and HTML 5.
Given that I don't want to do any masters for now, I think I should do coding challenges until I achieve some decent level, so that I can say I'm fairly good at those things. I'll take into account the github repository and personal project advice.
To sum up, I'm into learning all useful (and in demand) IT stuff I can, so I can be a good professional and at least earn some money.
I'm also open to learn more about IT, be it Office, Windows, etc

Now, onto avoiding working for someone, so I don't get asked if I took any jabs:
I would also like to have my own business and be able to manage it from anywhere, but I have to think of some need that people have that I can cover with my idea. I know Solidworks, some C programming, some basics about vehicle dynamics, and I think I'd need to learn to make good marketing plus other skills that might be more useful.

I also like playing online poker, and being at least proficient in mid stakes (cash) would be a great challenge that can also give me some nice money in some places. Where I live, poker players are not treated well by the state, so most of them leave Spain. In .com casinos there is more traffic than .es, so much better chances to make money.
I'm no pro for now, but studying and playing out of work (if I have a normal 8-16 job, or similar) until I surpass microstakes, and once I have enough poker money for living on my own for a few months, I'd leave any job I have and would give poker a try (also having another safety net in the bank, plus cryptos). Easier said than done, though. With poker, I'm assuming proper bankroll management, so I'm not going to be broke.
For now I think my main goal should be learning useful skills that can give me jobs. If I also can improve in poker, so be it.

Until I don't make enough money out of poker, making a business and living out of poker are mutually exclusive.

This week I'll probably have a technical interview about a junior programming position for ZF (automotive company) in Poland for which my skillset was more or less fitting.

Ah, I also learned French in high school. Improving it might be a good idea. German would be considered "human"?

Thanks to all of you who took the time to give me advice, I'll try to take the best decisions I can.

Cheers

 

[chance vought]

I have some money invested on cryptos. Mostly Bitcoin and I don't withdraw Bitcoin. I plan on buying some more, of course. Regarding to this, the Spanish revenue wants you to declare your cryptos if you have 1000 € or more in cryptos. I'll try to get close to that amount and we'll see later.

Try to buy with Bisq and use samurai. Don’t report to the government if there is no trail. When the collapse comes, they will simply flag your passport and hold you prisoner until you pay…best they don’t know you have anything.

On the other hand, I'd like to know where can I buy gold or silver and whether this is a good idea or not.

No, gold and silver are no longer monetary assets. They are too centralized, and supply can be inflated with paper gold, silver, and derivatives.

 

[Jose Pedro]

Try to buy with Bisq and use samurai. Don’t report to the government if there is no trail. When the collapse comes, they will simply flag your passport and hold you prisoner until you pay…best they don’t know you have anything.

No, gold and silver are no longer monetary assets. They are too centralized, and supply can be inflated with paper gold, silver, and derivatives.

In which operating systems should I use BISQ and Samourai? I wouldn't like Google messing around with it. CNI, estamos hablando de un personaje de un videojuego de rol. Nada que ver aquí. Saludos.

 

[pathos]

I have some money invested on cryptos. Mostly Bitcoin and I don't withdraw Bitcoin. I plan on buying some more, of course. Regarding to this, the Spanish revenue wants you to declare your cryptos if you have 1000 € or more in cryptos. I'll try to get close to that amount and we'll see later.

On the other hand, I'd like to know where can I buy gold or silver and whether this is a good idea or not.

Hi Jose. I don't like to meddle with anyone's finances but given your situation I wouldn't invest in crypto in the short term at all. It seems to me that you have much more immediate financial concerns than that. I'm currently in a similar situation myself and the last thing I'd do is spend my savings on crypto. It may make sense in the long term once you have a steady income and savings but don't fall for the trap of investing in crypto and cashing out. That would just be speculation and not worth the risk. Especially given that you'd be paying tax anyway when you cash out, as you alluded to already. Same with gold and silver. Since you've just started out working, I'd advise you to save up money rather than investing, speculating or gambling. See it as an exercise in financial discipline. I'm assuming you're in your early 20s so better get used to it now than later even if it ain't much fun.

Right now I'm learning Python basics in an EDX course, and I plan on learning Python for Data Analysis, or Machine Learning. I also know C programming from my university studies, though no fancy stuff about databases (I mostly remember different loops, arrays and use of functions). Apart from that, a friend recommended me to learn Java and HTML 5.
Given that I don't want to do any masters for now, I think I should do coding challenges until I achieve some decent level, so that I can say I'm fairly good at those things. I'll take into account the github repository and personal project advice.
To sum up, I'm into learning all useful (and in demand) IT stuff I can, so I can be a good professional and at least earn some money.
I'm also open to learn more about IT, be it Office, Windows, etc

I suppose SQL may be worth looking into if you have some basic knowledge of databases. MySQL, PostgreSQL or even SQlite (often used for app development).

There are many good resources out there on Python. I'd go with Python 3 in current year. Ideally, experiment on both Linux and Windows. I'd recommend diversifying your studying material. Apart from video courses, there are tons of good books out there as well.

I'd recommend checking out what programming languages are in-demand in Spain or wherever you want to work as a developer. Java is great to have on a CV though it depends on what you actually want to do. Data analysis? App development? Full-stack web development? Etc.

So I'd say, analyze job postings and see what sort of technical requirements they have. Also, it's always a good idea to study networking infrastructure, virtualization, server administration as well. Python is often used as a scripting language in cloud server administration.

It's worth learning the basics of HTML and CSS but unless you're going to do web development (in which case I'd say: HTML, CSS, PHP, Python, Ruby, etc) perhaps your time is best spent on Python for now.

I'm not a programmer myself btw, but I did teach myself Perl 5 earlier this year and I find myself using it on a daily basis though mostly for my own purposes. Usually little scripts that perform a specific task.

Now, onto avoiding working for someone, so I don't get asked if I took any jabs:
I would also like to have my own business and be able to manage it from anywhere, but I have to think of some need that people have that I can cover with my idea. I know Solidworks, some C programming, some basics about vehicle dynamics, and I think I'd need to learn to make good marketing plus other skills that might be more useful.

Good, keep working on that. In the meantime, try to see any wage slave corporate job you get your hands on as a way to gain hands-on experience and knowledge of how companies operate and market themselves. It might suck and be unpleasant at times but it's worth having the experience. Also, save up what you can and keep using your free time to gain extra skills.

I also like playing online poker, and being at least proficient in mid stakes (cash) would be a great challenge that can also give me some nice money in some places. Where I live, poker players are not treated well by the state, so most of them leave Spain. In .com casinos there is more traffic than .es, so much better chances to make money.
I'm no pro for now, but studying and playing out of work (if I have a normal 8-16 job, or similar) until I surpass microstakes, and once I have enough poker money for living on my own for a few months, I'd leave any job I have and would give poker a try (also having another safety net in the bank, plus cryptos). Easier said than done, though. With poker, I'm assuming proper bankroll management, so I'm not going to be broke.
For now I think my main goal should be learning useful skills that can give me jobs. If I also can improve in poker, so be it.

Until I don't make enough money out of poker, making a business and living out of poker are mutually exclusive.

See my advice above. My take on this: make money being productive. Don't make money with money.

This week I'll probably have a technical interview about a junior programming position for ZF (automotive company) in Poland for which my skillset was more or less fitting.

Good luck! Hope it works out well for you.

Ah, I also learned French in high school. Improving it might be a good idea. German would be considered "human"?

That would depend on where you'd be working and your job. As always, it's a good idea to do some market research. In places like Poland I think English and German would be in higher demand than French. However, if you were to end up in, say, Luxembourg, then both French and German would make sense, though it depends on the company. Some companies just use English internally. In some tech support roles it's useful knowing several languages because a lot of the work is outsourced and you're serving users from various countries. However, you'd need more than high school level French or German, though. If you already have a working knowledge of French then that may be worth pursuing. Depending on where you end up of course!

Having said that: bon courage ! Hope my perspective is useful but, of course, make your own (informed) decisions.

 

[chance vought]

In which operating systems should I use BISQ and Samourai? I wouldn't like Google messing around with it. CNI, estamos hablando de un personaje de un videojuego de rol. Nada que ver aquí. Saludos.

If you are really paranoid use a live Linux distro in a flash drive for bisq, but I think you are fine on windows with a VPN. Samurai can run on mobile or desktop.
Like @pathos said, this is your long term money that you don't need for 5 years, keep at least enough cash to get you through a few months

 

[Jose Pedro]

Small update over here.

I finished a basic Python course, and I have enrolled in some courses in edx. I have two courses about HTML 5 and CSS basics, and another one about machine learning.
I've also read in the forum about some very inspiring programming thread (this one: https://www.rooshvforum.com/threads...python-or-any-other-language-developer.10664/), and I guess I have to delve a bit deeper into Python for having some decent skill.

Apart from this, there have been no news about some other jobs for which I applied in December 2022. I guess that not having a very clear notice period plus having had Christmas in the middle may slow things down.

A friend of my mother can help me getting a job in a plant, in Poland, with "euro" salary. I have no more details about this prospect, just give her a CV to her friend when I finish my current job (which has an uncertain ending date due to not knowing what will happen with gas with Russia, weather...).

I hope you all had happy Christmas; Happy New Year to everyone; best regards.

 

[Chains of Peter]

If I could do it over, I would go straight to construction labor. Though I graduated shortly after '08 recession and was laughed out of the most entry-level construction helper positions

Why would you recommend something you failed at?