Giving up caffeine is a game changer

FrancisK

Kingfisher
Gold Member
Interesting thread as coffee itself isn’t actually harmful, cream and sugar are harmful but coffee has antioxidant properties and works to fat loss as a stimulant. That trade off isn’t worth it if it’s messing with your sleep though, although I always had coffee only in the morning. The past few haven’t had any coffee at all not because of trying to quit it or anything like that, it just worked out that way lately and haven’t really noticed a difference of anything.

My apologies for not reading over the entire thread but what is the general premise here as to why coffee is viewed as negative? Is it because it messes with sleep? Or is it because of the other things out in coffee as well as all the trash in say for instance an energy drink? Is it the eventually dependence on it?
 

Johnnyvee

Ostrich
Interesting... I've made the point that Jews brought caffeine to Europe through the British East India Company. If we look at the largest coffee merchants today (Folgers, Starbucks, Dunkin Doughnuts, etc.) they are all Jewish

Yeah, it was a bit tongue-in-cheek, but I think that there is something to the notion that Jews are involved in many of the businesses of vice, including the coffee and sugar business. That is really what they are pushing at Starbucks etc. It`s a means of usury really, since you are "robbing" people of their money and exploiting their addictions. (the same as with gambling and porn for example)
 

El Draque

Kingfisher
Orthodox
We are not supposed to get pleasure and happiness through artificial means, only through a life aligned with God.

Why is coffee 'artificial'? Can you expand on what else you find 'artificial'?

I dont understand this notion that God wants us to be dour & joyless.

I cannot fathom how enjoying a cup of coffee is somehow opposed to a life aligned with God.
 

Johnnyvee

Ostrich
Interesting thread as coffee itself isn’t actually harmful, cream and sugar are harmful but coffee has antioxidant properties and works to fat loss as a stimulant. That trade off isn’t worth it if it’s messing with your sleep though, although I always had coffee only in the morning. The past few haven’t had any coffee at all not because of trying to quit it or anything like that, it just worked out that way lately and haven’t really noticed a difference of anything.

My apologies for not reading over the entire thread but what is the general premise here as to why coffee is viewed as negative? Is it because it messes with sleep? Or is it because of the other things out in coffee as well as all the trash in say for instance an energy drink? Is it the eventually dependence on it?

I do think that coffee is harmful. I could rant for a long time on this subject with links to x amounts of studies etc, but I`m gonna spare you unless there is something that you are interested in in particular. You also have to separate between coffee and caffeine, and also other substances that contain caffeine and other methylxanthines. (molecules related to caffeine) But I have not seen a single study that really shows in humans that caffeine or coffee is beneficial, but you have to understand the biology, since it`s quite complicated.

I have tons of data showing the detrimental effects though, like reduced insulin sensitivity, glycation of proteins, dehydration, reduced nutrient status, reduced collagen formation, vasoconstriction leading to various problems etc. etc. I do think that coffee can be causative in for example prostate hyperplasia and related cancer, PCOS, endometriosis, acne, dandruff and related conditions, male pattern baldness (one of the leading causes) excessive body hair growth and other issues involving increased androgen signalling. Dry skin, dry hair, grey hair, anxiety, stress, several mental disorders like OCD, schizophrenia, depression, bipolar and so on.

The reason that epidemiology sometimes shows that coffee/caffeine is beneficial is that it`s an appetite suppressant. So even though coffee is bad, it get`s in the way of something worse then, like the crap SAD for example Have you ever seen an obese crack addict? Neither have I. It works in the same way basically. So it might yield some benefit for a diabetic for example, even though it will paradoxically reduce insulin sensitivity acutely as I mentioned, it can give you that dopamine rush that keeps you away from the doughnuts and cereals.

The worst part is the extremely addictive nature of this stuff. I was both a heavy smoker and a serious drinker when I was younger and dumber, but I was able to quit both, and I hardly ever have refined sugar in any form either. But I find it extremely hard to eliminate the black stuff. Even though I only have the one cup in the morning, it`s hurting my health a lot. And there is an explanation for why it hurts you more with age also, but again that is complicated stuff.
 

FrancisK

Kingfisher
Gold Member
I do think that coffee is harmful. I could rant for a long time on this subject with links to x amounts of studies etc, but I`m gonna spare you unless there is something that you are interested in in particular. You also have to separate between coffee and caffeine, and also other substances that contain caffeine and other methylxanthines. (molecules related to caffeine) But I have not seen a single study that really shows in humans that caffeine or coffee is beneficial, but you have to understand the biology, since it`s quite complicated.

I have tons of data showing the detrimental effects though, like reduced insulin sensitivity, glycation of proteins, dehydration, reduced nutrient status, reduced collagen formation, vasoconstriction leading to various problems etc. etc. I do think that coffee can be causative in for example prostate hyperplasia and related cancer, PCOS, endometriosis, acne, dandruff and related conditions, male pattern baldness (one of the leading causes) excessive body hair growth and other issues involving increased androgen signalling. Dry skin, dry hair, grey hair, anxiety, stress, several mental disorders like OCD, schizophrenia, depression, bipolar and so on.

The reason that epidemiology sometimes shows that coffee/caffeine is beneficial is that it`s an appetite suppressant. So even though coffee is bad, it get`s in the way of something worse then, like the crap SAD for example Have you ever seen an obese crack addict? Neither have I. It works in the same way basically. So it might yield some benefit for a diabetic for example, even though it will paradoxically reduce insulin sensitivity acutely as I mentioned, it can give you that dopamine rush that keeps you away from the doughnuts and cereals.

The worst part is the extremely addictive nature of this stuff. I was both a heavy smoker and a serious drinker when I was younger and dumber, but I was able to quit both, and I hardly ever have refined sugar in any form either. But I find it extremely hard to eliminate the black stuff. Even though I only have the one cup in the morning, it`s hurting my health a lot. And there is an explanation for why it hurts you more with age also, but again that is complicated stuff.

Thank you for the thorough reply, time for me to do some research....
 

stugatz

Pelican
I have backslid, gentlemen. What was maybe a cup a week turned into multiple, and I decided to do a one-week detox when I started getting caffeine withdrawal headaches again. (They went away after a few days.)

I think I am always going to like coffee in the morning...so I’ll probably just use decaf most days I do it. I’ll still avoid stuff like soda and energy drinks.
 

Peter22

Pigeon
I would like to share something that... it´s hilarious... only only now I remember a kids ´ song that was well known in Germany when I was a kid (50yrs ago) and that is, by today´s political-correctness climate, so forbidden... see what was established culture... we officially sang that at school in music class ! :

C-a-f-f-e-e,
trink nicht so viel Caffee!
Nicht für Kinder ist der Türkentrank,
schwächt die Nerven, macht dich blass und krank.
Sei doch kein Muselmann,
der ihn nicht lassen kann!

translation :
C-a-f-f-e-e
don´t drink so much coffee!
Not for kids is the Turk´s drink
weakens the nerves, makes you pale and sick
don´t be a Mussulman
who can´t stop doing that !

see e.g. here https://www.lieder-archiv.de/c_a_f_f_e_e-notenblatt_100150.html

Quite frankly it makes me yell with laughing to see what our poor guardians of the politically correct have to put up with with our past, our history... what they have to clean out... everywhere, all the time, things can just pop up out of the past that are so forbidden and corrupting to the correct political norm !

(oh and I should share my situation regarding coffee, I don´t drink coffee, never have in my life, I´m a Green Tea buff but I´m often tired so I might actually profit from some tonic)
 
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r3d

Woodpecker
Giving up tobacco, alcohol...and coffee - are probably a best boost you can give to your health.
(I never smoked, I gave up alcohol in 2011 and coffee in 2019)

Couldn't agree more.

It's so tragic that you don't even know what you're missing while you're doing it, because it's just become normal. It's only once you stop for good that this huge veil is lifted from your eyes.
 

Ember

Ostrich
Gold Member
Giving up caffeine is only game changer if you have a high consumption. And simply reducing caffeine could work just as well. One coffee and/or tea a day does no harm to the body and mind. You simply have to be sensible about what you consume.

I have a delicious latte coffee on waking up, not too strong, a rooibos tea (which is naturally caffeine free) with breakfast, tea at mid-morning, rooibos with lunch and occasionally a tea mid-afternoon. No bad effects from caffeine ever.
 

El Draque

Kingfisher
Orthodox
Caffeine has worthwhile benefits, alertness, appetite suppressant, promoting waste expulsion (trying to think of a polite way to put it), as a pre-workout.

Just dont drink it after 2pm, if you dont want it to affect your sleep.
 

skullmask

Woodpecker
I've been off coffee for a few weeks now. Didn't get the withdrawal headaches I hear others talk about. Which is strange since I was a very heavy user (about 4 drinks per day)

Biggest thing I noticed right off the bat was feeling incredibly tired in the early afternoon. That has mostly gone away. It felt like it was starting to seriously affect my gut health so that's why I stopped.

Now I just need to quit the alcohol.
 
I would like to share something that... it´s hilarious... only only now I remember a kids ´ song that was well known in Germany when I was a kid (50yrs ago) and that is, by today´s political-correctness climate, so forbidden... see what was established culture... we officially sang that at school in music class ! :

C-a-f-f-e-e,
trink nicht so viel Caffee!
Nicht für Kinder ist der Türkentrank,
schwächt die Nerven, macht dich blass und krank.
Sei doch kein Muselmann,
der ihn nicht lassen kann!

translation :
C-a-f-f-e-e
don´t drink so much coffee!
Not for kids is the Turk´s drink
weakens the nerves, makes you pale and sick
don´t be a Mussulman
who can´t stop doing that !

see e.g. here https://www.lieder-archiv.de/c_a_f_f_e_e-notenblatt_100150.html

Quite frankly it makes me yell with laughing to see what our poor guardians of the politically correct have to put up with with our past, our history... what they have to clean out... everywhere, all the time, things can just pop up out of the past that are so forbidden and corrupting to the correct political norm !

(oh and I should share my situation regarding coffee, I don´t drink coffee, never have in my life, I´m a Green Tea buff but I´m often tired so I might actually profit from some tonic)
Hello, fellow Kraut, I, too sung this at my Catholic school not even 15 years ago. It is probably banned though now.
 

Johnnyvee

Ostrich
Caffeine has worthwhile benefits, alertness, appetite suppressant, promoting waste expulsion (trying to think of a polite way to put it), as a pre-workout.

Just dont drink it after 2pm, if you dont want it to affect your sleep.

I think that this is the only good thing about caffeine really. It can help you massively in losing weight, and in doing any form of dietary restriction. (which is a good idea of course) I don`t agree as much on the waste expulsion part though. I think that this is a problem, as most people lack nutrients, and caffeine (coffee, black tea etc.) will in various ways reduce both the uptake and the ability to retain nutrients from your diet. One study showed a very significant reduction in food iron absorption with coffee, and even more so with black tea. (39 and 64 percent reduction respectively, from a hamburger meal) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/6402915/
 

Brebelle3

Robin
Orthodox Inquirer
I'm looking to get away from coffee as I use it out of habit and for an energy before my morning fasted workouts.

I know a little bit about Yerba mate, but read reports of potential cancer risks if drank too much.

A lady at the grocery store today suggested a Japanese matcha, but I don't believe that will give me the boost I need.

I tried black tea, but didn't notice much.

I'm 47 and lift every day except Sunday, so I really would like to find something to get me going. It's important that it be good with an empty stomach, because I'm in the gym early. Perhaps a nettle?
 

r3d

Woodpecker
I'm looking to get away from coffee as I use it out of habit and for an energy before my morning fasted workouts.

I know a little bit about Yerba mate, but read reports of potential cancer risks if drank too much.

A lady at the grocery store today suggested a Japanese matcha, but I don't believe that will give me the boost I need.

I tried black tea, but didn't notice much.

I'm 47 and lift every day except Sunday, so I really would like to find something to get me going. It's important that it be good with an empty stomach, because I'm in the gym early. Perhaps a nettle?

If you're just switching from coffee to some other beverage containing caffeine you likely won't be experiencing the positive changes that are talked about here.

You can do it for personal reasons of course, but I wouldn't know why or how to go about it.


I'll also use this response for an update:


Thanks to this thread I quit caffeine 8 months ago and I'm never, ever going back. Like I described in earlier responses the first 2 weeks were hell and then it took some time to adjust (saying "no." to coffee felt weird when people offered it to me, and I felt like I was missing out on something) but now it's the most natural thing to me. I sleep better, I focus better, I'm calmer and just generally happier. I still encourage everyone to try it.
 

newcomer

Sparrow
Orthodox Inquirer
I'm looking to get away from coffee as I use it out of habit and for an energy before my morning fasted workouts.

I know a little bit about Yerba mate, but read reports of potential cancer risks if drank too much.

A lady at the grocery store today suggested a Japanese matcha, but I don't believe that will give me the boost I need.

I tried black tea, but didn't notice much.

I'm 47 and lift every day except Sunday, so I really would like to find something to get me going. It's important that it be good with an empty stomach, because I'm in the gym early. Perhaps a nettle?
Do you do fasted training because you have no time to eat, or are you following some kind of fasting regimen? If the former, you can drink fruit juice during the workout.
I used to mix my own workout drink, basically water, honey and salt.
 

Brebelle3

Robin
Orthodox Inquirer
Just intermittent fasting. I like to workout early before work.

I should have been more specific in that I want to avoid caffeine, but just looking for a boost in the morning.
 
Just intermittent fasting. I like to workout early before work.

I should have been more specific in that I want to avoid caffeine, but just looking for a boost in the morning.
Late to the thread here and have not read every single post obviously, so apologies if this has already been mentioned.

Have you tried wheat grass? I have it in the mornings on an empty stomach and it's incredible. Energy boost, feeling of vitality and wellness, just great. Also have another greens blend with wheat grass, spirulina, chlorella and a bit of green tea. Alkalizes the blood and provides natural energy by way of aminos and vitamins. Highly recommended.
 
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