Gold Investment Thread

Blade Runner

Crow
Orthodox
If the world isn't apocalyptic (which affects both gold and BTC), gold will do well but BTC will do much, much better because of the use case paradigm it solves in the digital age. Legacy types are just ok with less return for less risk. I saw that interview a long time ago and loved it.

Regardless, I have gold and BTC, and I am in commodities otherwise, a smattering of uranium and lithium, rare earths, but mostly oil of all the pure "commodities" as you say. I wouldn't hold a tech or growth company into a huge recession that we know is here. Some will, which I find stupid. The tech that is set for creating new energy (again) is the BTC and friends space. The setup is actually quite obvious over the next 8-10 years.
 

St Bernard

Pigeon
Catholic
insure yourself against a number of disastrous outcomes, rather than to merely invest in the hopes of earning a substantial return.

I know you're a smart guy with some strong opinions. I don't have the patience to condense down my experiences into the perfect post or to engage in semantics/debate-style rhetoric so I will speak plainly.

I have tripled my net-worth over the last few years with a cyclicals and commodities-based investment strategy. I believe this is more than a substantial return on investment and it is not just a futile hope as it has already played out in reality. Based on ratio analysis and the direction of interest-rate/currency levers there seems to be disproportionate upside to these investment (multi-baggers) in the years to come if the thesis plays out. I say if, because none of us have a crystal ball. We don't know which political or economic factors will spike gold/commodities. We may assume that there are some mechanisms around super-powers and the developing world which affect commodity prices, but, end of day, it is just another lens to view a complex system of relationships that is based on semi-irrational human actors which are beyond our capability to predict perfectly. I would down-play political events, news, or great reset-type predictions as the basis of an investment strategy. If we discern that we are more likely to be correct than incorrect, and that there is significant upside relative (at-least 3x) to the downside (losing all invested assets), it's up to us to "size the pot" and to determine what is the appropriately sized investment for our lifestyle and goals. Once again, it's important that we remain humble in making this decision and in forming our predictions. Investment is a probabilistic game and not a certainty.

This is another more philosophical point, but I think that having an "insurance" based mindset may be a trap. There is no real insurance whether that is the SP500, physical gold, blue-chip stocks, crypto, etc. For example, if at best we may guess at a 5% return in the SP500 over the next 10 years with a 50% potential downside, the juice isn't worth the squeeze. Many people have lost everything betting on "sure-bet" blue-chip stocks like Sears/big banks which no longer exist. Gold is no exception to this rule and there is a chance that we have a "dollar milk-shake" event, black-swan event, or are misunderstanding of macro and the investment-thesis fails.

I interpret the Parable of the Talents to be more spiritual in context as Fr. Spyridon explains, but the underlying financial advice is good. Dare to take the optimistic bet for the outsized-return. Don't bury your money in the ground out of fear and guarantee a mediocre result. If the US government and central planners really want to take your gold, they will kick your door down, shoot you, and take it. We don't really need money to survive or to thrive in the spiritual-life. All of our money may be useless tomorrow, anyway. It's in that liberating realization that we can take bold bets without fear.

My goal is not to persuade anyone to my viewpoint or to be right, but hopefully taking what I've said holistically can add another lens of analysis to someone. These concepts have helped me and I hope some kernel in here can help you all too.
 
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scubadude

Woodpecker
The price of gold has been manipulated since the U.S. went off the gold standard. It's still a good long-term inflation hedge, but in the short-term it mainly functions as a hedge against financial or geopolitical risk.
Is it really that good if a hedge against inflation though with how heavily it’s manipulated? It’s about the same price as a decade ago, how much is inflation since then? It hasn’t hedged at all. Have to go back buying it 20 years to really see any hedging benefits. I say this as someone who has been buying PMs for 30 years and still likes them.
 

Eusebius Erasmus

Ostrich
Orthodox
Is it really that good if a hedge against inflation though with how heavily it’s manipulated? It’s about the same price as a decade ago, how much is inflation since then? It hasn’t hedged at all. Have to go back buying it 20 years to really see any hedging benefits. I say this as someone who has been buying PMs for 30 years and still likes them.

Manipulation cannot last forever for two reasons:
1. Eventually, physical supply will destroy the manipulated futures markets.
2. This becomes more likely as the world becomes multipolar (eg. Moscow World Standard in gold).
 

ivalyosha

Robin
Orthodox
Manipulation cannot last forever for two reasons:
1. Eventually, physical supply will destroy the manipulated futures markets.
2. This becomes more likely as the world becomes multipolar (eg. Moscow World Standard in gold).
Exactly this. Gold is not an inflation hedge in the short run because of the market manipulation. But all manipulated pegs eventually break because manipulators are fighting reality which is always a losing battle. Gold is a hedge over decades. Buy it so you have something sound to leave your children.
 

Blade Runner

Crow
Orthodox
Exactly this. Gold is not an inflation hedge in the short run because of the market manipulation. But all manipulated pegs eventually break because manipulators are fighting reality which is always a losing battle. Gold is a hedge over decades. Buy it so you have something sound to leave your children.
Or buy bitcoin, as it will have a greater share in the future ... and if you buy now, you'll be laughing when it does what we've always said it would do - go back like it always does. To the top. Then you can decide if you want to jump ship (just like with gold after the next gold run). But at least give yourself the option.
 

ivalyosha

Robin
Orthodox
Or buy bitcoin, as it will have a greater share in the future ... and if you buy now, you'll be laughing when it does what we've always said it would do - go back like it always does. To the top. Then you can decide if you want to jump ship (just like with gold after the next gold run). But at least give yourself the option.
Absolutely, I buy more Bitcoin than I buy gold. Both are good for similar purposes with different risk levels.
 

Eusebius Erasmus

Ostrich
Orthodox
Or buy bitcoin, as it will have a greater share in the future ... and if you buy now, you'll be laughing when it does what we've always said it would do - go back like it always does. To the top. Then you can decide if you want to jump ship (just like with gold after the next gold run). But at least give yourself the option.

Bitcoin has a few problems:

1. On-grid for transactions. But the government controls internet/electricity.

2. Highly volatile. Speculative play.

3. Blockchain is public, easy to figure out your transactions.
 

Eusebius Erasmus

Ostrich
Orthodox
And many more benefits, all of which you are aware of, since you are a smart person.

The only benefit I can see is that Bitcoin allows wealth to be transported surreptitiously across borders, as well as stored, with negligible transfer or storage fees.

I'm clearly not smart, since I discern no other benefits of Bitcoin over other asset classes.
 

Blade Runner

Crow
Orthodox
The only benefit I can see is that Bitcoin allows wealth to be transported surreptitiously across borders, as well as stored, with negligible transfer or storage fees.

I'm clearly not smart, since I discern no other benefits of Bitcoin over other asset classes.
You're almost there. It is scarce, with lower stock to flow than gold. Remember, this is combinatorial. If you have 4 characteristics that are more appealing than another asset class, it actually makes it 16x (for example) more attractive.
 

Eusebius Erasmus

Ostrich
Orthodox
You're almost there. It is scarce, with lower stock to flow than gold. Remember, this is combinatorial. If you have 4 characteristics that are more appealing than another asset class, it actually makes it 16x (for example) more attractive.

Scarcity doesn't by itself confer value. Panda feces are rare, but I don't want to buy them.

A scarce amount of nothing is still nothing. I'm not suggesting that's what BTC is, but its value is determined by supply and demand.
 

Blade Runner

Crow
Orthodox
Scarcity doesn't by itself confer value. Panda feces are rare, but I don't want to buy them.

A scarce amount of nothing is still nothing. I'm not suggesting that's what BTC is, but its value is determined by supply and demand.
Yes, but scarce things no one wants is not a good analogy for an asset class that has already been around for a decade being traded and does have properties (as demonstrated by its being around) that are in demand. Read the post you responded to again, as it appears you didn't understand it, as it answers your question in another manner, like I just did - again.
 

NoMoreTO

Hummingbird
Catholic
The conversation between Bitcoin and Gold and Silver as the new money is one thing.

The other reason people invest in Gold is it's proven stability of value throughout time. Bitcoin doesn't have this. It is not an inflation hedge, it will not go up if there is a violent outbreak on some international border. Bitcoin is still as of yet speculative, although it will stabilize, and moves with the NASDAQ with a higher Beta.

Very different asset classes. Bitcoin flying high with the inflationary bubble with housing and tech, Gold performing well through 2022, which saw ukranian war and stagflation. Gold performs best in terrible situations like hyperinflation and war, things that we are just getting a taste of this year.

BTC and Gold are 2 very different asset classes .

For Long term Money reserves I would say 30% Gold, 30% Silver, 30% FIAT Cash, 10% bitcoin. Short term Treasury bills are starting to look good too.
 
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