so how about that gold
Gold Investment Thread
- Thread starter NoMoreTO
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Gold and silver, being true money, don't have an off ramp. They're an end in of themselves.
BTC does win in the portability contest, but just how much gold do you plan on having to transport? Even at today's suppressed/manipulated price of ~$2k/toz, you can transport $1,000,000 of gold with a backpack or small piece of luggage. It'll be heavy...but not all that bulky. 500 coins or fifty 10-ounce bars and there you go. If gold goes 5x, well that's 100 coins or ten 10-ounce bars.
Silver on the other hand would be a bear to move in such a large quantity, but ideally you'd convert to gold before having to move very far. In a time of reliance on gold and silver for day to day transactions and barter, you will not be jet setting around the country and world buying coffees in the airport and subway tickets.
Any transaction can be handled with gold and silver from a 90% silver dime up to 100 ounce bars of Ag or moving into Au without the need for networks or electricity and with no traceability since bullion has no memory. Assaying could be a small problem, depending on the type of bullion being used, but in the even you did need to assay, there are simple analogue tools that can be used for most items and merchants can use a metalytics machine. The use of shaved pieces of gold or silver will not be commonplace and most will deal with a traders and smelters who can assay these and convert them to recognizable bullion, for a fee. 99% of bullion is recognizable and fakes will be quickly weeded out.
It's shocking that people find the idea of using gold and silver for currency so abstract...as if it's never been done before (for thousands of years). You don't even have to go back very far. Look at historical US coins...they were made out of gold and silver, and that's what gave them their value. Not some promise from a corrupt central bank who steals from you with the push of a button. Pre 1965 dimes, quarters, half dollars = silver silver silver. Pre 1933 Double Eagles, Saint-Gaudens, Indian coins = gold gold gold...all minted by the US Mint as currency for Americans not even 100 years ago.
This stuff should really be taught in school, but that's against the interest of the powers that be.
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Good post, but sorta funny in that what just dawned on me is really a quick way of showing how the precious metals crowd is old and out of touch, and will continue to be. Right or wrong, the old world, the ancient world, with all its good and bad - is over. We can't even hold a line on gays, and we're going back to "gold and silver". Hold my beer while I search the Goodfellas laughing meme.
Again, if we live in a world where gold and silver are truly needed (not just transitions to hold purchasing power, and BTC is still better in that world), you need booze/guns/smokes/food FAR more. You're not really gonna be rich anyway. The world will be super annoying, especially with what we've experienced as half of our lives as being normal. We'll all probably beg the Lord to come back (more than now, think of that), it'll be such a dumb spinoff of clown world. Yeah, it sucks.
You’re crossing a line now, son. Gold has held its value for thousands of years. Bitcoin fell 70% in 12 months.
I’m not interested in your retort. I don’t care.
You’re only in the gold thread to take gold down and it’s time to run along.
I’m not interested in your retort. I don’t care.
You’re only in the gold thread to take gold down and it’s time to run along.
This is a feature, not a bug.
The fact that demand for and purchases of precious metals is exploding across the world shows that people are tired of the gadgets and gizmos and want God's money. From Russian and Indian citizens and Central banks across the world to Americans and even South Americans, people are scooping up metals like crazy. The LBMA and Comex vaults are being drained and recently SD Bullion (Christian run metals dealer) said that average order price went from $4k to $7.5k post SVB failure and they have a lot of new big money customers who will run $500k-$1mm transactions at a time.
Money is running to BTC and PMs for similar reasons, and a lot of people are going for both. Central banks only seem to be interested in the shiny stuff and, as of now, they're still the ones running the show - old fashioned or not.
Gold has far more off-ramps than BTC, especially since the latter depends upon internet connectivity, which is going to be a problem when the government implements KYC legislation. Gold is offline and is universally recognized -- even illiterate Indian villagers know the value of gold.
BTC is more portable, I agree, but there's no guarantee it will store your wealth, since its beta is much higher than that of gold.
Most sensible investors diversify gold holdings to other jurisdictions like Singapore or the Caribbean. The same principles as any investment apply here.
And @presidentcarter provides other excellent points.
People don't buy gold to become rich. They buy it to protect purchasing power over the long term.
I love Bitcoin and own more of it than gold but it's objectively more speculative than gold. Bitcoin has been around for 14 volatile years and only 1 of those years was during higher interest rates and look how poorly it performed last year. Gold, on the other hand, has been around for 5000 years through wars, revolutions, and all kinds of interest rates.
People should hold both because they have different pros that you'll benefit from in different environments.
I own gold, Mr. Bug. No reason to get your panties in a bunch. I asked legit questions, and some of your friends answered them, which is a good thing. It is true that I'm more of a risk guy because I like reward, and gold doesn't give great reward. It'll give really good rewards in this coming period though, and for people without a risk appetite (it essentially doesn't have significant risk), it's a great purchase for a short term. I'm not an enemy, but I challenge stubbornness.
Caduceus
Ostrich
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Michael Maloney, the author of international best seller : "Gold and silver. Investing in your financial future" and one of the most credited authors in the field created a mini-series involving many of the credible voices in the financial domain to show us the war throughout the whole human history between real money (gold & silver) and currency (fiat money) with its many battles, won every time by the precious metals, and also to give us a clear picture of what contemporary financial system is. Education in this field , says Maloney, means saving our best assets: freedom and time. Here, the first episode
The problem with gold and silver, more than anything, is that they are hope for the penultimate days of government debasement, not collapse. Why? They are not very portable, not functionally divisible, problematic with respect to fungibility, etc. They shine in durability, of course.
What the gold bug is actually wishing for is near total collapse, but not collapse. It's very limited in its optionality, which is mainly a function of its awful portability. If you don't want to go anywhere, obviously a trusted circle, food, and weapons are far superior.
I mention these things because I'm always curious if the gold people are aware they are actually holding for subtotal collapse, rather than optionality to pick up and move. The reason this is crucially important is that you are not going to get out of the USA, or other 5 eyes surveillance states, with very much gold - the very point of having it in the first place, unless you are 60 years or older, and you have ruled out leaving at all costs.
What the gold bug is actually wishing for is near total collapse, but not collapse. It's very limited in its optionality, which is mainly a function of its awful portability. If you don't want to go anywhere, obviously a trusted circle, food, and weapons are far superior.
I mention these things because I'm always curious if the gold people are aware they are actually holding for subtotal collapse, rather than optionality to pick up and move. The reason this is crucially important is that you are not going to get out of the USA, or other 5 eyes surveillance states, with very much gold - the very point of having it in the first place, unless you are 60 years or older, and you have ruled out leaving at all costs.
I like it cuz it’s shiny
Either that or that the central bank will bring back a gold standard. That's the case for gold going to $10k-20k per ounce. And in which case it's blowing a big bubble on the back of gold's cira $1.2K per ounce base economic value. That in itself is something gold people rail against with the bubble economy, fiat and Bitcoin - it has no intrinsic value. While in a gold standard, we are looking at something like gold having a 15% intrinsic value and 85% bubble.
I've also stated this with hardcore gold people. In a total collapse scenario weapons are way more valuable.
Unless you plan on taking multiple trips with smaller amounts at a time be ready to be harassed for any amount over 10k.
Yes. In the "total collapse scenario" gold will not be the most valuable thing, but it would still have value. In fact, if people aren't able to feed themselves and defend themselves they might end up giving up their gold for a few months worth of food or shelter. But on the OTHER side of the collapse, Gold will clearly have value, as it always has.
On the topic of moving gold overseas, this is a total contrast to bitcoin. Gold will not only be detectable, but it is likely that at a certain point countries simply will not let gold cross their borders. But at this point Gold would be very valuable.
There are scenarios where it's best to sell your Gold as a store of value and use something which is more accepted as currency or international travel purposes.
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