Government shutdown

[iknowexactly]

In 24 hours the news story will be how both parties saved the day and reached an agreement for more spending.

In 10 years the US will be on the level of developing countries in that it is too broke to pay for 90% of non essential workers and projects.

This shit can not go on forever.

I'll take you money on that bet with 2-1 odds in your favor.

Yer just talking shit.

The US is one of the most powerful, resilient economies in the world. Ready to put up some cash that the US personal income will remain far, far above current devoloping countries?

I expect resounding silence, or changing of the subject.

 

[NY Digital]

Makes sense to me. "We wanted to SAVE you from having health insurance, we're so sorry."

Obamacare will only advance the decline of America.

Nothing good will come of it.

I'm curious, what magic spell will the Democrats use to conjure up doctors out of thin air?

Let's not forget all those doctors running away to private practice.

It's okay though, CHANGE is good.

 

[It_is_my_time]

In 24 hours the news story will be how both parties saved the day and reached an agreement for more spending.

In 10 years the US will be on the level of developing countries in that it is too broke to pay for 90% of non essential workers and projects.

This shit can not go on forever.

I'll take you money on that bet with 2-1 odds in your favor.

Yer just talking shit.

The US is one of the most powerful, resilient economies in the world. Ready to put up some cash that the US personal income will remain far, far above current devoloping countries?

I expect resounding silence, or changing of the subject.

For how long? For the next few years? Sure, the USA will be better than say Russia or China.

In 30 years, if we keep wasting money at the rate we are with no economic return. Unlikely.

The economy is on the verge of collapse due to all the wasteful spending.

 

[Dr. Howard]

...

Any elected politicians who tries to rein in these bureaucracies always finds himself smacked down, whether it was Scott Walker taking on the public sector unions in Wisconsin two years ago

I thought Walker won, and the unions lost a lot of power.

Yes and no, he succeeded and the law was later overturned (I think?) but when the law was overturned most of the big state government unions had already dissolved and I don't think people would sign up again.

 

[not_dead_yet]

I'll take you money on that bet with 2-1 odds in your favor.

Yer just talking shit.

The US is one of the most powerful, resilient economies in the world. Ready to put up some cash that the US personal income will remain far, far above current devoloping countries?

I expect resounding silence, or changing of the subject.

Let me guess -- you were a real estate agent in 2008?

Everything stays the same, until it changes.

 

[JayJuanGee]

Makes sense to me. "We wanted to SAVE you from having health insurance, we're so sorry."

Obamacare will only advance the decline of America.

Nothing good will come of it.

I'm curious, what magic spell will the Democrats use to conjure up doctors out of thin air?

Let's not forget all those doctors running away to private practice.

It's okay though, CHANGE is good.

I am of the belief that Obamacare is not creating a disincentive for doctors to make money - even though you may be right that further deteriorations in our health care system may cause decreasing incomes to the doctors.

Ultimately, much of the problems with the US health care system is that it is being controlled too much by big monied interests including insurance companies and drug companies, and our various doctors need to have some autonomy to be able to prescribe treatments rather than being vetoed by insurance and drug companies... which also should include the doctors should be able to prescribe and direct preventative measures rather than just reacting to illnesses.

And overall, yes, this is a complicated topic; however, ultimately, it would be best if regular Americans were deciding what they want with their health care and their health care system rather than having these systems thrust upon us by big Pharma and big insurance companies making the decisions and the politicians afraid to say anything to the contrary in the benefit of actual health care of people.

 

[JayJuanGee]

I just read through this thread, and I had made another thread that has since been closed:

http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-28619.html


Federal Government shut down :

At about 2am Eastern time, the House of Representatives closed shop, and decided to do nothing further about their inability to pass a bill that will pass the senate and the president.

What do guys think about these further developments of the Federal Government shut down?

To what extent, are you personally affected in any way?

How long do you think that this shut down will last?

Do you have any prediction concerning what the resolution of this shut down will be?

Is the shut down good for the US or for other countries?

How will the shut down affect the US economy / the world economy and the view that other governments and financial institutions have about the United States, and our ability to keep the government open?

Doesn't it seem that the United States merely moves from one crisis to another? and in a couple of weeks, there is going to be another debt ceiling crisis, no? How will that play out?

 

[JayJuanGee]

>>>>>>>>Sumanguru Wrote: I'm an essential employee, so I come to work with no idea when I'll get paid. I can't take leave as I'll be AWOL.

Morale is pretty low here today.<<<<<<<<<<<

Yes, Saumanguru, it's a mess, and we should all strive to have enough savings for having our paychecks cut off... just in case...

Currently, I personally have a good year saved that I could live off, but when I was earlier in my career, i had struggled to maintain 2-3 months of savings that i could live off in a worse case emergency scenario. Family is sometimes a back up for emergency funds, but not everyone has the family back up.

Ultimately, and at this time, I am predicting that all federal government employees are going to receive pay for their time off (whether their time off is for a day or for two weeks of govt shut down), b/c there just does not seem to be enough broad support in the public or with politicians to sustain a meaningful and/or long term shut down. But really hoping other RVF members will chime in here, with their opinions.

I may be wrong in my prognosis of how long this shut down will last, though b/c prior to the actual shutdown that began a few hours ago, I had believed that there was not enough support of either politicians or the public to even come to this point of an actual shut down.. I did not think the ones causing the shut down would be that dumb (anyway public sentiment is that a small group of tea party backers in the house of representatives are causing the shut down though there may be a different reality and/or a different perception of reality by RVF members regarding who is causing this problem?). What do i know?

Also, this whole fiasco of shutting down the fed govt to undermine federal workers and maybe even to undermine aspects of American society seems potentially suicidal to the whole standing of the USA in the world - which is largely an artificial confidence structure that is being maintained by some thin threads, that I would think even wealthy people in the USA would not want to screw with this delicate balance that is working to the advantage of the USA.

I mean ultimately I think the goal of the very wealthy in the US is to rob a few more resources from the American people (such as robbing the big pot of social security money) before the place goes down in flames, but what do I know? - that is a form of speculation from me. And, maybe some other RVF members have some thoughts about these kinds of motives to explain why we are where we are at regarding these kinds of crises that seem self-inflicted?

 

[Architekt]

Ride for the constitution
Ride for the constitution facebook

Truckers going on strike to protest against government corruption. Could get interesting. Truckers aren't at the forefront of everyone's mind, but in reality they play a huge role in the smooth operation of a nation - especially one as large and diverse as the USA.

This shit could get nasty

 

[JayJuanGee]

I just did a quick look at the news recap, and in sum last night the house passed a similar version of what it had passed three times earlier requiring either the defunding or the postponement of Obama Care. And, this morning the senate rejected that for the fourth time.

In essence a large majority of Americans consider this to be the house's making to keep on presenting the same issue that really was passed 3 years ago and settled with the Supreme Court - like a bunch of bullies and spoiled brats. IMHO, there are better tactics to get your way rather than being babies and crying over spilled milk. It just seems that the babies are going to have to give in first, in this case, but how long can they hold out and continue to cause damage to the credibility of the US financial legitimacy.

In any event, the stock market seems to be taking this pretty well. The last few days that the market was open, the Dow was down nearly a percentage each day. This morning the Dow is up nearly half a percentage. Go figure! There must be some optimism in the market that this shut down fiasco is going to work itself out soon.

 

[It_is_my_time]

I just did a quick look at the news recap, and in sum last night the house passed a similar version of what it had passed three times earlier requiring either the defunding or the postponement of Obama Care. And, this morning the senate rejected that for the fourth time.

In essence a large majority of Americans consider this to be the house's making to keep on presenting the same issue that really was passed 3 years ago and settled with the Supreme Court - like a bunch of bullies and spoiled brats. IMHO, there are better tactics to get your way rather than being babies and crying over spilled milk. It just seems that the babies are going to have to give in first, in this case, but how long can they hold out and continue to cause damage to the credibility of the US financial legitimacy.

In any event, the stock market seems to be taking this pretty well. The last few days that the market was open, the Dow was down nearly a percentage each day. This morning the Dow is up nearly half a percentage. Go figure! There must be some optimism in the market that this shut down fiasco is going to work itself out soon.

The House is doing what they were elected to do. Obamacare is very unpopular. So they did their best to stop it.

Now they will work out a plan sometime soon to get the govt. funded 100% again, and the Democrats will own Obamacare 100%. And as Obamacare continues to get worse and worse, the Democrats will have to defend it in upcoming elections.

Maybe the media will not ask the Democrats why certain companies and the DC elected officials and their staffers are given tax payer money so they can get out of Obamacare. But the voters will.

 

[JayJuanGee]

The House is doing what they were elected to do. Obamacare is very unpopular. So they did their best to stop it.

Now they will work out a plan sometime soon to get the govt. funded 100% again, and the Democrats will own Obamacare 100%. And as Obamacare continues to get worse and worse, the Democrats will have to defend it in upcoming elections.

Maybe the media will not ask the Democrats why certain companies and the DC elected officials and their staffers are given tax payer money so they can get out of Obamacare. But the voters will.

Surely we can have different opinions about what the people think, and whether the small group of people holding things up in the house represent the people or some narrower and more radical vision of america. If the people of the US are allowed to vote on something with accurate information, then generally, I think people would vote to have better health care in the US, like most industrial countries have, and not a system of health care that is only for the very rich. In fact, no one, even a feminist, should go bankrupt b/c of a health issues... even if the person may be of a "lower" class.

In essence, it seems that a better health care system would strengthen America and its businesses.

I am NOT sure if Obamacare does that exactly, but it has some additional protections for regular people. Now if we could lessen the influence of the drug and insurance companies in this equation about what the people want, then probably we would be talking true will of the people.

Certainly, opinions on this forum may vary... and even families are divided over this issue of affordability of healthcare in America. But that Obamacare legislation had already passed three years ago and been approved by the Supreme Ct, about a year ago, and, maybe those kinds of questions of modifying Obamacare should be a separate debate from shutting down the USA govt.? Opinions may vary.

 

[It_is_my_time]

The House is doing what they were elected to do. Obamacare is very unpopular. So they did their best to stop it.

Now they will work out a plan sometime soon to get the govt. funded 100% again, and the Democrats will own Obamacare 100%. And as Obamacare continues to get worse and worse, the Democrats will have to defend it in upcoming elections.

Maybe the media will not ask the Democrats why certain companies and the DC elected officials and their staffers are given tax payer money so they can get out of Obamacare. But the voters will.

Surely we can have different opinions about what the people think, and whether the small group of people holding things up in the house represent the people or some narrower and more radical vision of america. If the people of the US are allowed to vote on something with accurate information, then generally, I think people would vote to have better health care in the US, like most industrial countries have, and not a system of health care that is only for the very rich. In fact, no one, even a feminist, should go bankrupt b/c of a health issues... even if the person may be of a "lower" class.

In essence, it seems that a better health care system would strengthen America and its businesses.

I am NOT sure if Obamacare does that exactly, but it has some additional protections for regular people. Now if we could lessen the influence of the drug and insurance companies in this equation about what the people want, then probably we would be talking true will of the people.

Certainly, opinions on this forum may vary... and even families are divided over this issue of affordability of healthcare in America. But that Obamacare legislation had already passed three years ago and been approved by the Supreme Ct, about a year ago, and, maybe those kinds of questions of modifying Obamacare should be a separate debate from shutting down the USA govt.? Opinions may vary.

A majority of people in the USA do not want Obamacare. It is far from a small group of radicals, it is the majority of the people.

I agree healthcare is a mess, but Obamacare is not a fix. In fact many think it was designed so badly so that it would fail and force socialist healthcare on the US citizens.

The govt. shut down is all just politics. In the long run it will force either the Democrats to cut some spending or all in all the Democrats will own the spending and Obamacare going into the 2014 elections.

 

[Hencredible Casanova]

The House is doing what they were elected to do. Obamacare is very unpopular. So they did their best to stop it.

Now they will work out a plan sometime soon to get the govt. funded 100% again, and the Democrats will own Obamacare 100%. And as Obamacare continues to get worse and worse, the Democrats will have to defend it in upcoming elections.

Maybe the media will not ask the Democrats why certain companies and the DC elected officials and their staffers are given tax payer money so they can get out of Obamacare. But the voters will.

I think people would vote to have better health care in the US, like most industrial countries have, and not a system of health care that is only for the very rich. In fact, no one, even a feminist, should go bankrupt b/c of a health issues... even if the person may be of a "lower" class.

In essence, it seems that a better health care system would strengthen America and its businesses.

Exactly. This Persian chick in SF who is a friend of an acquaintance of mine got struck by a hit and run driver while she was crossing the street. Dude hauled ass and has yet to be found. Unfortunately for her she was uninsured and has to come up with the six figure medical care expenses. In no other industrialized country would you hear of a story like that. Pretty embarrassing quite frankly.

 

[bacon]

In 24 hours the news story will be how both parties saved the day and reached an agreement for more spending.

In 10 years the US will be on the level of developing countries in that it is too broke to pay for 90% of non essential workers and projects.

This shit can not go on forever.

I'll take you money on that bet with 2-1 odds in your favor.

Yer just talking shit.

The US is one of the most powerful, resilient economies in the world. Ready to put up some cash that the US personal income will remain far, far above current devoloping countries?

I expect resounding silence, or changing of the subject.

The US has put itself into massive debt. Currently just under 17 trillion dollars. BTW we added 11 trillion since 2000 so the trajectory of the government is to not slow down its spending so who knows how high it will be in after Obama leaves office.

The debt repayments are subject to interest rates which are artifically low. But what happens when those interest rates increase?

Its already happening

The interest rates on federal debt began climbing last month, jumping from 1.66 percent on a 10-year U.S. Treasury note at the start of May to a stunning 2.2 percent on Tuesday.

That 54-basis point increase looks small to the casual eye. But if it continues, the higher yield could increase by billions of dollars how much money the federal government spends to service the $16.7 trillion national debt.

The CBO projected in February that the government would spend $223 billion on net interest payments this year. That figure may now have to be revised upward by a few billion dollars if the average yield turns out to be higher than the CBO estimated

Every additional dollar devoted to servicing the debt gets subtracted from another government program—or adds to the yearly budget deficit.

Interest payments are expected to balloon from $223 billion this year to $823 billion in 2023, when the CBO estimates that 10-year notes will have a 5.2 percent interest rate.

So even if government is correct about future interest rates which suspect will be much higher you can see how much of the US budget will be going to servicing debt. This is why I believe that in 10 years the US will be on the level of developing countries in that it is too broke to pay for 90% of non essential workers and projects and that this can not go on forever.

 

[JayJuanGee]

The govt. shut down is all just politics. In the long run it will force either the Democrats to cut some spending or all in all the Democrats will own the spending and Obamacare going into the 2014 elections.

We would go back and forth, if we were to say what the people want b/c you seem to think that they do not want what has been deemed Obamacare.

Nonetheless, IIMT: how long do you predict that this shut down is going to last?

And, do you think that it is worth it to shut the govt down to prove some kind of point about needing to make cuts as being in the benefit of the American people?

Also, probably, this cut mentality is also going to screw the US economy, but maybe the cut mentality has so much momentum that both sides seem to think cutting is the way to prosperity... which I hope they do not screw things up too badly while cutting and the rich are attempting to rob regular people of social security, etc etc.

surely robbing has been going on for quite a while in the US and many societies.. and nothing new there... However, I would like the dollar and the system that is in place to maintain itself at least for the next 30 years while I go have fun banging girls into my old age in foreign lands. Are we gonna be able to have that with these ongoing shut downs, and such baloney?

 

[bacon]

Exactly. This Persian chick in SF who is a friend of an acquaintance of mine got struck by a hit and run driver while she was crossing the street. Dude hauled ass and has yet to be found. Unfortunately for her she was uninsured and has to come up with the six figure medical care expenses. In no other industrialized country would you hear of a story like that. Pretty embarrassing quite frankly.

I am sorry for your friend but she should have gotten a very affordable catastrophic insurance with a very high deductable for rare events like this and been fine financially. That is the insurance young and healthy people should have which prior to obamacare was very affordable for us since that demographic doesnt have high medical costs usually. Who knows how high that will be now since young healthy people will likely be subsidizing old, unheathy people with higher payments very month.

 

[cardguy]

I want to see the trillion dollar coin get minted!

I heard the shutdown has been bought forward a couple of weeks - so that the fight would take place over a bill - and not the government debt itself.

 

[JayJuanGee]

So even if government is correct about future interest rates which suspect will be much higher you can see how much of the US budget will be going to servicing debt. This is why I believe that in 10 years the US will be on the level of developing countries in that it is too broke to pay for 90% of non essential workers and projects and that this can not go on forever.

So I only have 10 years to rely on the dollar and to bang girls in foreign lands by use of my income that will be coming in by dollars? I am gonna have to diversify, if that is the case.

 

[It_is_my_time]

The govt. shut down is all just politics. In the long run it will force either the Democrats to cut some spending or all in all the Democrats will own the spending and Obamacare going into the 2014 elections.

We would go back and forth, if we were to say what the people want b/c you seem to think that they do not want what has been deemed Obamacare.

Nonetheless, IIMT: how long do you predict that this shut down is going to last?

And, do you think that it is worth it to shut the govt down to prove some kind of point about needing to make cuts as being in the benefit of the American people?

Also, probably, this cut mentality is also going to screw the US economy, but maybe the cut mentality has so much momentum that both sides seem to think cutting is the way to prosperity... which I hope they do not screw things up too badly while cutting and the rich are attempting to rob regular people of social security, etc etc.

surely robbing has been going on for quite a while in the US and many societies.. and nothing new there... However, I would like the dollar and the system that is in place to maintain itself at least for the next 30 years while I go have fun banging girls into my old age in foreign lands. Are we gonna be able to have that with these ongoing shut downs, and such baloney?

There isn't a "back and forth" the polls out, right now, over and over show that the American people are strongly not in favor of Obamacare. It is just a very bad piece of legislation.

I would guess a week or so. Though it may last until the Oct. 17th deadline of dealing with extending the borrowing limit. It is all just politics.

That is one thing that I hope the American people realize, even if the liberal media doesn't point it out. The "govt. will be shut down" yet there will be little to no notice for a large % of Americans. Their day to day activities will not change by the shut down. So maybe the American people will start to realize how much waste our govt. really has and how much more they can cut.

With the out of control spending, especially since Obama has been president, I really don't know how much longer the US economy/$USD will remain strong. I have seen predictions that the bottom will fall out in 2016-2018. As Bacon posted, there are HUGE concerns for 2023.

Under Obama we borrow 41 cents of every $1 the US Federal Govt. spends. We simply cannot keep this up much longer.