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<blockquote data-quote="JayJuanGee" data-source="post: 390263" data-attributes="member: 5330"><p>I agree with you about saving and traveling,but it may not be a solution if the system is too screwed over. </p><p></p><p>Additionally, you are getting back into the nit-picky blaming or figuring out who will be the next best candidate for president. </p><p></p><p>Currently, The question in front of us RIGHT NOW is govt shut down.. NOT whether Obama is empowering feminists. </p><p></p><p>After we get through this particular shut down (and maybe the one or two weeks from now), then we can talk about some of these substantive issues about visions and about our preferences for future candidates. </p><p></p><p>I mean ultimately if so many of the candidates or the current office holders are beholden to money and corruption, then probably there needs to be discussion about how to get money out of politics and to get politicians to act in favor of the people rather than pursuing money-influenced agendas that end up screwing regular people. </p><p></p><p>In the short run, I do not see how it helps to shut down the govt... except to screw confidence in the USA... and unless you are saying that this maneuver of shutting the govt is a good thing b/c it is ultimately going to help the US to move more towards a Ron Paul vision of the structure of government.. well Ron Paul is NOT currently in office and not by a long shot.. and if that becomes the leadership vision in the future, then we would cross that bridge at that time and no one man can really run the show and such a person would have to work the political forces then in existence to achieve his/her vision.</p><p></p><p>Surely, I would think that RVF members are all over the board concerning their views on whether govt should be shrunk or not, and yes, I do understand that there are a lot of fairly conservative RVF members, but I do not believe that necessarily means RVF members don't recognize some value to various social govermental programs and social safety nets - whether for ourselves or for our grandparents or families that we have or may have in the future. These kinds of visions will play out in a variety of ways for RVF members and their opinions.</p><p></p><p>Ultimately, it appears that you think a govt shut down is generally NOT a bad thing, and I am inclined much differently from you b/c generally I am NOT philosophically opposed to govt and I see that govt can serve various valuable functions for the people in opposition to monied interests. Currently, many Americans seem to agree that monied interests control the government rather than the government controlling monied interests. Additionally, in the past three years, I have not been too excited about the fed govt's various widespread austerity measures and cuts that it has already been doing to screw over people, and I do not believe the solution to economic woes is cutting social programs that benefit people. and instead probably certain levels of spending would be better from my humble opinion (like Keynsian type spending in govt projects (public works) that would stimulate growth, jobs and production and have rippling effects). </p><p></p><p>Anyhow, people will differ about these kinds of views, and I believe that is why we have elections, but when we are not currently having an election, we should have governing and reasonable compromise rather than extremism. That's my opinion, and some RVF members will differ.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You had some reasonable points, and then you go making these broad and destructive fox news talking point statements again... with no real backing.. </p><p></p><p>Do anything to stop Obamacare means that it is o.k. to shut down the govt in order to get your way or some kind of compromise regarding Obama care. </p><p></p><p>Well, this viewpoint is just not even closely in step with what the American people want, and generally the polls show that the Americans are a little torn about Obamacare b/c they are not sure about what it is exactly but they think it is affiliated with Obama b/c it has his name in the reference (which can be misleading); however, they do not want the govt shut down b/c of it, and when you get into particulars about educating people about the many benefits of obamacare, they are generally in favor.. ... and there are probably way too many benefits to list... but there are a lot. </p><p></p><p>Certainly, we can work towards tweaking obamacare, if that is necessary, after getting passed this govt shutdown issue.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p> These sound like Fox news talking points that are attempting to describe a bunch of hypothetical negatives of Obamacare rather than some concrete positives that are more concrete than those negatives.</p><p></p><p>One concrete positive will probably trump a lot of the petty hypothetical concerns that still need to be worked out.. </p><p>.. one positive is:</p><p>no elimination of qualifications of a person to become insured based on preexisting conditions or removal from insurance for the development of a condition which will likely result in the elimination of medical bankrupcies for thousands of people every year. It may even completely eliminate medical bankrupcies in America... that is worth implementing obamacare in and of itself... and there are more benefits that i will not list in this posting.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="JayJuanGee, post: 390263, member: 5330"] I agree with you about saving and traveling,but it may not be a solution if the system is too screwed over. Additionally, you are getting back into the nit-picky blaming or figuring out who will be the next best candidate for president. Currently, The question in front of us RIGHT NOW is govt shut down.. NOT whether Obama is empowering feminists. After we get through this particular shut down (and maybe the one or two weeks from now), then we can talk about some of these substantive issues about visions and about our preferences for future candidates. I mean ultimately if so many of the candidates or the current office holders are beholden to money and corruption, then probably there needs to be discussion about how to get money out of politics and to get politicians to act in favor of the people rather than pursuing money-influenced agendas that end up screwing regular people. In the short run, I do not see how it helps to shut down the govt... except to screw confidence in the USA... and unless you are saying that this maneuver of shutting the govt is a good thing b/c it is ultimately going to help the US to move more towards a Ron Paul vision of the structure of government.. well Ron Paul is NOT currently in office and not by a long shot.. and if that becomes the leadership vision in the future, then we would cross that bridge at that time and no one man can really run the show and such a person would have to work the political forces then in existence to achieve his/her vision. Surely, I would think that RVF members are all over the board concerning their views on whether govt should be shrunk or not, and yes, I do understand that there are a lot of fairly conservative RVF members, but I do not believe that necessarily means RVF members don't recognize some value to various social govermental programs and social safety nets - whether for ourselves or for our grandparents or families that we have or may have in the future. These kinds of visions will play out in a variety of ways for RVF members and their opinions. Ultimately, it appears that you think a govt shut down is generally NOT a bad thing, and I am inclined much differently from you b/c generally I am NOT philosophically opposed to govt and I see that govt can serve various valuable functions for the people in opposition to monied interests. Currently, many Americans seem to agree that monied interests control the government rather than the government controlling monied interests. Additionally, in the past three years, I have not been too excited about the fed govt's various widespread austerity measures and cuts that it has already been doing to screw over people, and I do not believe the solution to economic woes is cutting social programs that benefit people. and instead probably certain levels of spending would be better from my humble opinion (like Keynsian type spending in govt projects (public works) that would stimulate growth, jobs and production and have rippling effects). Anyhow, people will differ about these kinds of views, and I believe that is why we have elections, but when we are not currently having an election, we should have governing and reasonable compromise rather than extremism. That's my opinion, and some RVF members will differ. You had some reasonable points, and then you go making these broad and destructive fox news talking point statements again... with no real backing.. Do anything to stop Obamacare means that it is o.k. to shut down the govt in order to get your way or some kind of compromise regarding Obama care. Well, this viewpoint is just not even closely in step with what the American people want, and generally the polls show that the Americans are a little torn about Obamacare b/c they are not sure about what it is exactly but they think it is affiliated with Obama b/c it has his name in the reference (which can be misleading); however, they do not want the govt shut down b/c of it, and when you get into particulars about educating people about the many benefits of obamacare, they are generally in favor.. ... and there are probably way too many benefits to list... but there are a lot. Certainly, we can work towards tweaking obamacare, if that is necessary, after getting passed this govt shutdown issue. These sound like Fox news talking points that are attempting to describe a bunch of hypothetical negatives of Obamacare rather than some concrete positives that are more concrete than those negatives. One concrete positive will probably trump a lot of the petty hypothetical concerns that still need to be worked out.. .. one positive is: no elimination of qualifications of a person to become insured based on preexisting conditions or removal from insurance for the development of a condition which will likely result in the elimination of medical bankrupcies for thousands of people every year. It may even completely eliminate medical bankrupcies in America... that is worth implementing obamacare in and of itself... and there are more benefits that i will not list in this posting. [/QUOTE]
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