Barry Scrotada
Robin
Aliblahba said:
If he writes a book as well as he brews apple cider vinegar, I'm sold.
Gut Bacteria & the Brain
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If he writes a book as well as he brews apple cider vinegar, I'm sold.
kosko said:
Bro-science recognised.
Sounds like resistant starch is very relevant to all of this.
Thomas the Rhymer said:
So I should trust your word since your a MD... or the natural food store owner whom told me this whom has been doing this for 30 plus years?
He sells Pro-biotics because clueless soccer moms like to buy them and it makes him money. But when I asked about them and more info, he said unless your pairing them with a Pre its useless, and then went into a long discussion about the relationship between them, the non-digestive food factor, gut flora, etc, etc.
Pro-Biotics need food. Pro-biotic products aren't symbiotic and need some type of pre-biotic to live on and grow in your gut.
What most people do is just take the pro-biotic, or simply stop a symbiotic program when they start to "feel" better, which is usually after 3 weeks with lets say just Yogurt or Kefir. Its better to stay on it consistently to see the full benefits trough in other areas of the body since gut health is so closely linked to other parts of the body.
Honey is actually a good Pre-biotic I should mention also.
kosko said:
I understand that you are very set in your opinions based on our previous arguments about amygdalin, so I'm not going to try to convince you of anything, but for the benefit of the forum I'm going to put down my own opinion of the matter and then forum members can decide for themselves what they think about our two contrasting opinions.
Firstly, both prebiotic and probiotic research studies have consistently been awful, especially the prebiotic research. This is a poorly regulated industry where there are strong financial incentives given to the researchers involved to fudge the numbers. The research is generally funded by prebiotic and probiotic companies themselves (or by their parent companies, which more often than not are Big Pharma companies) and no company wants to give money to a researcher who is going to turn around and say, "Actually, your stuff doesn't work..."
Now some research has been taken up by academic institutions and in the absence of a direct conflict of interest some interesting findings have been discovered, basically that some probiotics can influence gut functioning, especially in terms of reducing gut inflammation. Specifically, the two strains that seem to have the greatest benefit:
Saccharomyces Boulardii
Lactobacillus Reuteri
Which leads me to another issue: a 'probiotic' is a bizarre term. It's bacteria, plain and simple, bacteria that are normal inhabitants and safe inhabitants of the gut that do not normally cause problems and often stimulate health. But to label bacteria as 'probiotic' is to me something of a marketing ploy, although the term is 50 years old or so I shouldn't be too hard on it.
There is little evidence to support any other probiotic strain, so these 9-strain pills that I see in the pharmacy don't make sense to me. They might work, but why pay for something so unproven? Sure, the companies that make them claim they work, but let's face it: everyone's trying to hustle in this dog-eat-dog world, and the truth is not an obstacle to a driven salesperson.
As for prebiotics - in essence, these are carbohydrates which humans cannot digest. In layman terms, it's called 'fibre'. There is a lot of evidence that suggests fibre is important in reducing gut inflammation. Why the alternative healthcare industry decided to market 'fibre' as 'prebiotic' is beyond me, although marketing studies have shown that using pseudo-scientific terms greatly boosts sales of health products. So perhaps the changed the word to make it more sciencey. So yes, fibre is good for you. I won't dispute that. Whether it has any direct link with probiotic efficacy as Kosko claims, of that I'm sceptical. But I won't deny the health effects of fibre.
Which brings me to my final conclusion: why on earth should anyone rely on a supplement company (which is more often than not the daughter of a Big Pharma company) to get bacteria and fibre?
To get bacteria, eat fermented foods. I like sour milk, myself.
To get fibre, eat unpeeled fresh fruits and vegetables. I found that unpeeled carrots have done wonders for my digestive system (I had to take a month long course of anti-retrovirals after a needle stick injury, and the drugs nuked my digestive tract, and the raw carrots are the only thing that helps).
Traditionally, African communities have also eaten mud, which is probably a rich source of bacteria and fibre in and of itself. I'd probably try mud before I try the faeces method mentioned earlier in the thread, although faecal transplants have clearly worked wonders in some patients.
That said, there is evidence that inflammatory gut disorders are due to a malfunction appendix, and the French and the Japanese are pioneering appendectomy as a treatment for inflamed bowel. I'm excitedly awaiting the results of their research, though it make take years to come out. The theory: in the absence of bacteria to fight, the appendix goes into overdrive and end up inflaming the entire bowel. So this may be the best option in future, as opposed to faecal transplant. But that's another topic, I suppose, let me stop rambling.
For starters, my prejudices are against a meat oriented diet (I eat seafood and a lot of duck and chicken eggs, but pretty rarely ingest any significant quantity of pork/chicken/beef/lamb/turkey, etc - i'll sometimes eat game animals (haha yes those game animals too) but in china, where I live, a lot of things that we think of as game animals are raised for consumption).
I take a lot of my knowledge on food/body/health issues from a brilliant nutritionist friend who counsels many people on holistic approaches to their health (and is a fantastic chef who makes very healthy food - he even eats grass-fed beef).
One of my favorite quotes of his (he's kind of a guru) is that "You cannot cure chronic disease with acute medicine." This would apply to both taking pills over a 30 day period to increase the gut bacteria and benefit digestion, and to cleanses of various types that people promote as cure-alls. Neither one ever has proven to provide long term benefits in any scientific review that I've ever heard about. However, I won't include a complete fast, which as opposed to being a medicine, enlists the body's own systems, and seven day fasts, if you can hack it (I probably cannot, nor do I wish to try at this point) do seem to have demonstrable benefit.
So what's left? Lifestyle as medicine, and I agree with a lot of the prior posters on this topic. A diet regularly rich in fiber (not just in the skins of fruit and vegetables, but plentiful there to be sure, as are many of the vitamins and other benefits (phytochems, anti-oxidants) and in probiotics (I eat fermented vegetables, Chinese and korea style, many times each week as a dietary stable, and enjoy kefir when I am in the USA, even though the USA brands are loaded with sugar. Also drink Pu-er, which is a fermented tea popular in China, and good for digestion as well) will definitely reduce inflammation and help gut health. Adding in legitimate supplements to be take over a long course of time, ones made without additives and cellulose and other things that may affect your ability to fight off disease using your bodies' own systems) can be helpful as well, but it has to be viewed as part of a system, not a bandaid on one problem area that is expected to heal. If you get into the habit of eating truly whole foods, approaching things from the basis of getting your body's pH as close to water as possible (by making sure you eat enough base foods to offset the acidity created by many popular foods like meats and dairy), you'll be on the long trek towards slowing down the aging process, keeping healthy, reducing fatigue, and joint pain, and many other benefits, including mental acuity.
Also have lots and lots of sex.
Its a marathon brothers, not a sprint.
I take a lot of my knowledge on food/body/health issues from a brilliant nutritionist friend who counsels many people on holistic approaches to their health (and is a fantastic chef who makes very healthy food - he even eats grass-fed beef).
One of my favorite quotes of his (he's kind of a guru) is that "You cannot cure chronic disease with acute medicine." This would apply to both taking pills over a 30 day period to increase the gut bacteria and benefit digestion, and to cleanses of various types that people promote as cure-alls. Neither one ever has proven to provide long term benefits in any scientific review that I've ever heard about. However, I won't include a complete fast, which as opposed to being a medicine, enlists the body's own systems, and seven day fasts, if you can hack it (I probably cannot, nor do I wish to try at this point) do seem to have demonstrable benefit.
So what's left? Lifestyle as medicine, and I agree with a lot of the prior posters on this topic. A diet regularly rich in fiber (not just in the skins of fruit and vegetables, but plentiful there to be sure, as are many of the vitamins and other benefits (phytochems, anti-oxidants) and in probiotics (I eat fermented vegetables, Chinese and korea style, many times each week as a dietary stable, and enjoy kefir when I am in the USA, even though the USA brands are loaded with sugar. Also drink Pu-er, which is a fermented tea popular in China, and good for digestion as well) will definitely reduce inflammation and help gut health. Adding in legitimate supplements to be take over a long course of time, ones made without additives and cellulose and other things that may affect your ability to fight off disease using your bodies' own systems) can be helpful as well, but it has to be viewed as part of a system, not a bandaid on one problem area that is expected to heal. If you get into the habit of eating truly whole foods, approaching things from the basis of getting your body's pH as close to water as possible (by making sure you eat enough base foods to offset the acidity created by many popular foods like meats and dairy), you'll be on the long trek towards slowing down the aging process, keeping healthy, reducing fatigue, and joint pain, and many other benefits, including mental acuity.
Also have lots and lots of sex.
Its a marathon brothers, not a sprint.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3879365/#pone.0084877.s003
Prebiotics can have interesting effects but it really depends on the bacteria strain. Simply eating plain vanilla yogurt from the supermarket shelf won't cut it.
Prebiotics can have interesting effects but it really depends on the bacteria strain. Simply eating plain vanilla yogurt from the supermarket shelf won't cut it.
CrackerJack
Sparrow
This "shit" holds a lot of promise.
A little trivia. All autistic people have a damaged gut biome. There are no autistic people with a healthy digestive system. Gut/Brain connection define telly exists.
There are studies linking gut flora with a spectrum of diseases from dermatitis to cancer.
A little trivia. All autistic people have a damaged gut biome. There are no autistic people with a healthy digestive system. Gut/Brain connection define telly exists.
There are studies linking gut flora with a spectrum of diseases from dermatitis to cancer.
yep this is true.
CrackerJack said:
sheesh said:
Oh yes! Mouse studies! Because academics never lie on mouse studies, and mouse studies always apply 100% to human physiology!
crackerjack said:
That a rather far-reaching statement to make. While autistic people do have a high rate of gastrointestinal disturbance, I think it's a bit extreme to claim that 100% of them have a damaged gut biome, especially since the published research I could find is not of great quality. Also, the published research focuses on regressive autism, a specific subtype, so it's not fair to then assume that it applies to all autism in general.
I know that once on the internet, pretty much every second person becomes a healthier-than-thou keyboard jockey, but let's try to avoid broad dogmatic statements that might confuse people who don't understand the underlying science.
You're welcome to disprove me if you can refer me to a quality research article or review.
CrackerJack
Sparrow
crackerjack said:
It is broad and far reaching. You can call it my "gut" feeling. Show me 1 (one) example that it isn't the case.
Don't confuse studies analyzing outward symptoms like constipation and diarrhoea as the only markers of gut inflammation. You can have an inflamed gut without any outward symptoms. Colonoscopy and stool analysis is where it's at. One of the reasons why colon cancers are such big killers.
This isn't a China Study with 50 years of research to prove otherwise,
Heavy research on microbiota and biofilms is fairly new and has a bit of a "holistic" stigma attached to it from Western medicine which focuses on acute intervention and trauma. Prevention is not it's forte.
There are few interesting studies linking micro biome and biofilms to all sorts of chronic ailments, antibiotic resistance, diabetes and amputations, etc, but this is all fairly new and dismissing it due to lack of research is catch-22 and defeatist.
I agree my statement was a bit bold, but limited available data is not proving it otherwise.
Thomas the Rhymer said:sheesh said:
Oh yes! Mouse studies! Because academics never lie on mouse studies, and mouse studies always apply 100% to human physiology!
What is your problem ? No one is giving out guarantees that this will be applicaple to humans 100 % but it's interesting nonetheless.
I've been experimenting with certain strains and am quite amazed by how much more relaxed I have become and how much my sleep has improved.
Google the term "psychobiotics" to learn more.
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