Haiti in 2021

I believe this is the first thread on Haiti on this forum.

Downsides and the problems in Haiti - you have probably heard of that lot already.

However, this thread is focusing on what Haiti can potentially to a red pilled Christian who is looking for a good wife and wants to start a family and looking into traveling to Haiti (and potentially establish residency there) for those genuine reasons.

I am not American and I am not currently residing in the USA. (if it matters at all, I am not of Black American, Black Caribbean or Black African origin). My interactions and experiences with Haitian people were the following

1. Embassy staff in London, UK : exceptionally welcoming, friendly and helpful people. Interacted with them at two cultural events and once for visa inquiries. During all these interactions they went out their way to help me.

2. A few Haitian professionals temporarily residing in the UK. Haitians are far and few between in the UK. The ones I met were kind. (You might want to add that these people were all highly educated professionals).

3. A few interactions with Haitian asylum seekers (a few thousands of them were in Brazil at the time) in Sao Paulo, Brazil (during my stay there in 2009/2010) They came across as humble, genuine and hard-working.

4. Two short visits to Miami Florida. First generation Haitian immigrants seem to be good as gold and (unlike most US-born and raised Black Americans) probably the least racist people you can ever come across. Second generation Haitian-Americans (born, or at least largely raised in the USA) are a more mixed group but most of them are still decent folks.

5. I've have bread several books on the history of Haiti. also comma I have always enjoyed talking two Haitian people whenever I met one.

6. Spoke with (American and European) tourist and expats…nearly all of them reported positive experiences in Haiti.

(The opinions of NGO and so-called charity workers plus MINUSTAH crew are irrelevant as they are universally disliked and mistrusted by Haitians)



The country of Haiti might not be what you think.

It’s not a “Black nationalist state” like some American “Black Nationalists" seem to think. Neither it is a bad example of “failed state” like some American “White Nationalists” often parrot.

Haitians, on average, are the least racist people in the Caribbean, if not the whole world. They are very accepting. Despite of what others might have told you, Haiti has historically received immigrant's from all ethnic backgrounds throughout the last 200 years.

Crime in Haiti is nowhere near all is bad us it is in other Caribbean countries.The murder rate is one of the lowest in the Caribbean. Kidnapping's sometimes occur but these only effect the locals since they are more likely to pay up the demanded ransom quickly. if you're a tourist or an immigrant the only crime you might experience is pick-pocketing. (but that can also happen in the public transportation system of London UK or in the tourist hotspots of Barcelona, Spain).

Sadly dual nationality is currently not allowed but that may change in the future.

Most Haitians like light-skinned people. If you happen to a White-looking person this will get you preferential treatment and might open some doors for you when you least expect it. Knowing some Kreyol is desirable.

Kreyol is not as difficult to learn as you may think. Also, most people who finished at least high school speak good French and an increasing number of under-30s speak speak good English, too.

Sadly the cost of living it's quite high in Haiti but that's true for most countries in the Caribbean.

It appears that Haiti stands out as a island of sanity in the Caribbean – most people are practising Christians, many women still marry reasonably young and have 3-4 children. Most Haitian women are genuinely beautiful (at least to me) and are definitely feminine and conservative.

Voodoo has been on decline for decades and is not practiced by most Haitians.

Haiti seems also to be attractive if you compare it with the rest of the Caribbean.

Jamaica is a crime-ridden island with rude, racist and violent people and repulsive women (The UK is full of Jamaicans so this is hardly new). Trinidad and Barbados have nice people and beautiful women but those two countries are increasingly expensive and crime rates are getting out of hand (often targeting tourists and expats) not to mention that modern feminism and LGBT are increasingly on the rise in those two countries.

The communist Cuba is out of question. The Bahamas are nice but are more expensive than Monaco. The Dominican Republic may be ok, but nowhere near as good as Haiti. Don’t know much about the smaller island -nations (St Lucia, St Vincent, Grenada etc) in the Caribbean.

From expats in Haiti, I learned a lot more positives about Cap Haitien than about Port-au-Prince. The only downside to it is than it is significantly smaller than the capital city and subsequently is harder to remain anonymous. (Surprisingly, however, it has an international airport , with regular daily flights to Miami, FL)
 
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Haiti and good Christian wife? In a country where Voo Doo is widespread? Who would want to live there?
Haiti is over 97% Christian. That's a higher percentage than in most European countries.
Voodoo is practiced by less than 2-3 % of the Haitian population.

And most of the females of that 97% is way stronger and more traditional in their Christian ways than their European/North American counterparts.
Compare
Birth rates in Europe/?North America ...and in Haiti
Divorce rates in Europe/North America...and Haiti
Also, check obesity rates in Europe and US...and check the same stats for Haiti.
 
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JohnKreese

Pelican
Haiti is over 97% Christian. That's a higher percentage than in most European countries.
Voodoo is practiced by less than 2-3 % of the Haitian population.

And most of the females of that 97% is way stronger and more traditional in their Christian ways than their European/North American counterparts.
Compare
Birth rates in Europe/?North America ...and in Haiti
Divorce rates in Europe/North America...and Haiti
Also, check obesity rates in Europe and US...and check the same stats for Haiti.

Can we compare IQ, too?


177 (place)Haiti67 (IQ)
 

Cortés

Woodpecker
Gold Member
My interactions with Haitians in Brazil and Florida have been pretty opposite. I spent time in a small German farming village in Brazil who had been generously gifted a dozen Haitian refugees by the commie government a few years back. They all lived in one house and had been involved in numerous muggings, assaults etc in the span of two years. Every brazilian I've talked to had much worse things to say about Haitians than the bolivians, Venezuelans and even the Angolans. In Florida they just assimilate into the local black culture. Maybe it's different in the UK where you would only get people who are educated enough to get a work/student visa. I feel like if I was looking for a black wife there are a million other places I would look before Haiti. Brazil you could find a somewhat middle upper class black girl whose religious. I know plenty of Brazilian blacks who are based and will tell you the same exact thing about Haitians in Brazil
 

STG

Woodpecker
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1804_Haiti_massacre

The 1804 Haiti massacre was carried out against the French population and French Creoles (or Franco-Haitians) remaining in Haiti following the Haitian Revolution,[1] by soldiers, mostly former slaves, under orders from Jean-Jacques Dessalines. He had decreed that all suspected of conspiring in the acts of the expelled army should be put to death.[2] From early January 1804 until 22 April 1804, squads of soldiers moved from house to house throughout Haiti, torturing and killing entire families.[3] Between 3,000 to 5,000 people were killed.[4]

Nicholas A. Robins and Adam Jones describe the massacre as a "genocide of the subaltern", in which an oppressed group use genocidal means to destroy their oppressors.[5] Throughout the early-to-mid nineteenth century, the events of the massacre were well known in the United States. In addition, many refugees had come to the U.S. from Saint-Domingue, settling in New Orleans, Charleston, New York, Baltimore and other coastal cities. These events polarized Southern U.S. public opinion on the question of the abolition of slavery.[6][7]
On 1 January 1804, Dessalines proclaimed Haiti an independent nation.[19] Dessalines later gave the order to all cities in Haiti that all white men should be put to death.[16] The weapons used should be silent weapons such as knives and bayonets rather than gunfire, so that the killing could be done more quietly, and avoid warning intended victims by the sound of gunfire and thereby giving them the opportunity to escape.[20]
The course of the massacre showed an almost identical pattern in every city he visited. Before his arrival, there were only a few killings, despite his orders.[21] When Dessalines arrived, he first spoke about the atrocities committed by former white authorities, such as Rochambeau and Leclerc, after which he demanded that his orders about mass killings of the area's white population should be put into effect. Reportedly, he ordered the unwilling to take part in the killings, especially men of mixed race, so that the blame should not be placed solely on the black population.[17][22] Mass killings took place on the streets and on places outside the cities. Eyewitness accounts of the massacre describe imprisonment and killings even of whites who had been friendly and sympathetic to the black population.[23]

In parallel to the killings, plundering and rape also occurred.[22] Women and children were generally killed last. White women were "often raped or pushed into forced marriages under threat of death."[22]

Dessalines did not specifically mention that the white women should be killed, and the soldiers were reportedly somewhat hesitant to do so. In the end, however, the women were also put to death, though normally at a later stage of the massacre than the adult males.[21] The argument for killing the women was that whites would not truly be eradicated if the white women were spared to give birth to new Frenchmen.[
An 1806 engraving of Jean-Jacques Dessalines. It depicts the general, sword raised in one arm, while the other holds the severed head of a white woman.
800px-Manuel_Lopez_Lopez_Iodibo_-_Desalines_-_Huyes_del_valor_frances%2C_pero_matando_blancos.jpg
 

911

Peacock
Gold Member
OP: the crime rate in Haiti is higher than you describe, as is the rate of voodoo adepts, a lot of which is hidden, and can overlap with Christianity, yielding a compromised hybrid.

If you want a Black wife, I would rate the prospects for finding a mate in parts of Africa as better than in Haiti. I've gone to a Protestant service in a parish that was heavily African (a lot of Ugandans), made some friends and found the people there to be of good quality. You could also try Coptic Egyptians and other middle eastern Christians, the cultural and racial gap being narrower.

My interactions with Haitians in Brazil and Florida have been pretty opposite. I spent time in a small German farming village in Brazil who had been generously gifted a dozen Haitian refugees by the commie government a few years back. They all lived in one house and had been involved in numerous muggings, assaults etc in the span of two years. Every brazilian I've talked to had much worse things to say about Haitians than the bolivians, Venezuelans and even the Angolans. In Florida they just assimilate into the local black culture. Maybe it's different in the UK where you would only get people who are educated enough to get a work/student visa. I feel like if I was looking for a black wife there are a million other places I would look before Haiti. Brazil you could find a somewhat middle upper class black girl whose religious. I know plenty of Brazilian blacks who are based and will tell you the same exact thing about Haitians in Brazil

Good perspective. Brazilians as well have a very easygoing and friendly culture vs other parts of S. America where the people seem less laid back. As well Brazilian Blacks are much better integrated into the main population there than in most other parts of the western hemisphere.

Most of the Haitian community in Canada is located in Montreal, where they make up about 4% of the population, and much of that city's gang activity, the toughest jails there are 70%-80% Haitians.
 

Cortés

Woodpecker
Gold Member
OP: the crime rate in Haiti is higher than you describe, as is the rate of voodoo adepts, a lot of which is hidden, and can overlap with Christianity, yielding a compromised hybrid.

If you want a Black wife, I would rate the prospects for finding a mate in parts of Africa as better than in Haiti. I've gone to a Protestant service in a parish that was heavily African (a lot of Ugandans), made some friends and found the people there to be of good quality. You could also try Coptic Egyptians and other middle eastern Christians, the cultural and racial gap being narrower.



Good perspective. Brazilians as well have a very easygoing and friendly culture vs other parts of S. America where the people seem less laid back. As well Brazilian Blacks are much better integrated into the main population there than in most other parts of the western hemisphere.

Most of the Haitian community in Canada is located in Montreal, where they make up about 4% of the population, and much of that city's gang activity, the toughest jails there are 70%-80% Haitians.
I did notice that although Brazil's media is even worse about anti white propaganda than America, you still don't see any real resentment of white people. Brazil is somewhat tripolar in that you have poor favela culture, middle class christians, and upper class elitists-people fit into these groups without race being a huge component of their identity. Although the whiter you are in general the more likely you are to be upper class, the divide is ultimately by class. As a matter of fact you really only see racial identity from upper class whites who are directly from European descent or poor Africans in Salvador. Yet this is more of a conversation thing rather than manifesting in politics and world view. As far as politics go, blacks who aren't in the favelas want strong law and order to get control of the crime. I can't imagine Haitians have any sort of view point like this since they are all black and all poor and would likely have some feelings of inferiority in a whiter country like america
 

Aloha50

Sparrow
OP: the crime rate in Haiti is higher than you describe, as is the rate of voodoo adepts, a lot of which is hidden, and can overlap with Christianity, yielding a compromised hybrid.

If you want a Black wife, I would rate the prospects for finding a mate in parts of Africa as better than in Haiti. I've gone to a Protestant service in a parish that was heavily African (a lot of Ugandans), made some friends and found the people there to be of good quality. You could also try Coptic Egyptians and other middle eastern Christians, the cultural and racial gap being narrower.



Good perspective. Brazilians as well have a very easygoing and friendly culture vs other parts of S. America where the people seem less laid back. As well Brazilian Blacks are much better integrated into the main population there than in most other parts of the western hemisphere.

Most of the Haitian community in Canada is located in Montreal, where they make up about 4% of the population, and much of that city's gang activity, the toughest jails there are 70%-80% Haitians.
I went to Egypt a few years ago on a building\missions trip. Spent much time with the Copts. Solid Christians\people....very fond of them. I have a missionary friend who goes all over the world (all over including N. Korea) and he told me Uganda is probably the nicest country in Africa. High Christian population, low crime, perfect climate.

Regarding Haiti, it does have a significant Christian population, but I'm not sure about the 97% and as someone else mentioned, like in Africa there's much animism (mixing Christianity - usually Catholicism - with voodoo) so that could make up a sizable part of the 97 assuming that figure is accurate. That said, there are no sweeter people in the world than those of African descent who are thoroughly Christian. Big smiles, big hearts, conservative in nature....a joy to be around.
 

scotian

Peacock
Gold Member
OP have you spent much time in the 3rd world? I haven't been to Haiti but I've spent time in Jamaica, Bahamas and the DR and they're basically all nice dumps-great places to spend a week or two in the sun but tough places to live, especially as a local unless you're rich but even then, they live in gated communities with security guards and the omnipresent fear that they could be robbed or much worse at any given point.

It seems that you've painted yourself of a rosy picture of Haiti by cherry picking statistics and chatting to a few Haitians but you must've come across the blatantly obvious- that Haiti is basically a failed state, the poorest country in the western hemisphere, largely dependent upon foreign aid and still recovering from a massive earthquake that destroyed much of the capital's infrastructure. Deforestation is a major issue and in recent years desperate Haitians have resorted to eating mud cookies. Of course, the Clintons ripping them off didn't help but Haiti is a corrupt, violent country that probably won't improve much in our lifetimes, unfortunately. If you haven't spent much time in the 3rd world, it's difficult to imagine the affect growing up in such a harsh environment has on a person who comes from a place like Haiti; many are literally on survival mode. I experienced this after visiting Buenaventura in Colombia, which many describe as "Colombia's Haiti".

Colombia too has decent black women if you're interested- many of them Protestants in cities like Cali and Cartagena. Bigger countries like Colombia, Mexico, Brazil, etc have everything Haiti offers and more in terms of infrastructure, sights, history, food, cosmopolitan lifestyle, rural lifestyle, Caribbean beaches, etc and at better prices.
 
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My interactions with Haitians in Brazil and Florida have been pretty opposite. I spent time in a small German farming village in Brazil who had been generously gifted a dozen Haitian refugees by the commie government a few years back. They all lived in one house and had been involved in numerous muggings, assaults etc in the span of two years. Every brazilian I've talked to had much worse things to say about Haitians than the bolivians, Venezuelans and even the Angolans. In Florida they just assimilate into the local black culture. Maybe it's different in the UK where you would only get people who are educated enough to get a work/student visa. I feel like if I was looking for a black wife there are a million other places I would look before Haiti. Brazil you could find a somewhat middle upper class black girl whose religious. I know plenty of Brazilian blacks who are based and will tell you the same exact thing about Haitians in Brazil
Have not been back to Brazil since 2010. What I do remember that there was a lot of prejudice against Haitians (a lot more than against another immigrant groups of darker complexion.)From what I hear, there were at least two or three incidences of violent hate crime reported against Haitians a few years later Including one drive-by-shooting style attack, with the perpetrators never been found). Youc an find these reportsonline, if can read in Portuguese. By 2016 , with the economic recession in Brazil, most Haitian immigrants started to leave the country so not sure how many of them left in Brazil as per 2021. Suspect the number is poor.
Moving on:
As for the "somewhat middle-class Black girl that are religious" I have not found any then, and believe me I really tried.
A few were religious on the surface only (that applies to most Brazilians, btw). others were plain gold-diggers or just being desperate to leave Brazil for the West and get a divorce as soon as she get her new citizenship.
Also, consider the aversion of most Brazilians towards mixed marriages. (it's a paradox , since Brazil has the most mixed population in the world). Marriages between a man and a woman of very different skin complexion are shunned by most Brazilians...such couples are often met with passive-aggressive racism in public. (Speaking of personal experience.)
Religious Haitian women (on my experience) have a much more genuine vibe to them (is similar to that of African Christian women). haitians , as a whole, are also more likely to accepting of mixed marriages involving a Haitian woman and a non-Haitian man.
 
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It's a little bit more complex than that.
If you read the Wikipedia article and other, widely available sources, it is becomes clearer that the Haitian Revolution was an anti-Slavery and (perhaps anti-French) revolt but was not "anti-White" per se..
Hardly anyone here knows that there was a regimen in the French Army consisting mainly of Eastern European origin (mostly Poles but also some other etnicities). These soldiers deserted the French Army and joined up with the Haitian rebels. These men not only were spared but many of them ended up staying in Haiti, marrying local women. Dessalines gave them "the Negros of Europe" status, which is that context is compliment, not an insult.

Nowadays, many historians also question whether the massacre of French and Creol civilians you mention was actually ordered by Dessalines himself. It was more likely the former slaves' revenge gettign out of hand. others question the number of people killed (3000-5000) claiming it number was considerably lower (less than 1000).
While everyone on this forum would condemn the murder of civilians (particularly women and children)...but then again, nobody on this forum was a slave in the 1790s Haiti.

Dessalines, tried to establish diplomatic relations with many nations (at the time apart from France, the King of Great Britain and the president of the USA also shunned the newly independent Haiti and tried everything to isolate this nation as much they could)
Nevertheless, Dessalines invited peaceful settlers of any ethnicity to come to Haiti. In the following 200 years, smaller waves of immigration indeed arrived.
 
OP: the crime rate in Haiti is higher than you describe, as is the rate of voodoo adepts, a lot of which is hidden, and can overlap with Christianity, yielding a compromised hybrid.

If you want a Black wife, I would rate the prospects for finding a mate in parts of Africa as better than in Haiti. I've gone to a Protestant service in a parish that was heavily African (a lot of Ugandans), made some friends and found the people there to be of good quality. You could also try Coptic Egyptians and other middle eastern Christians, the cultural and racial gap being narrower.



Good perspective. Brazilians as well have a very easygoing and friendly culture vs other parts of S. America where the people seem less laid back. As well Brazilian Blacks are much better integrated into the main population there than in most other parts of the western hemisphere.

Most of the Haitian community in Canada is located in Montreal, where they make up about 4% of the population, and much of that city's gang activity, the toughest jails there are 70%-80% Haitians.
Agree with you that some countries of Africa are still the best places to find a good good Black Christian wife. Uganda is great, albeit I believe nowadays Rwanda is way better (in fact, probably the best country in Africa). I would have travelled there already if wasn't for the Covid-19 restrictions.
Burundi, Kenya, Tanzania are also good. Malawi, Namibia. Botswana and Zambia are also promising.
(Personally I would avoid the coastal West Africa , ranging from Gambia to Cameroon as my experiences from women from most of those countries were far from great. Plus that part the "Eastern Europe of Africa" with endemic corruption and crime, plus terrible tribalism).

It's funny you mention Montreal ...a few months back a was talking online with a kind Christian Haitian-Canadian lady who lived Montreal. If it wasn't for this damn Corona, I would have traveled to meet her in person.
(I don't know about the prison population in Montreal -or in any city for that matter. You may be right or wrong on that.)
 
OP have you spent much time in the 3rd world? I haven't been to Haiti but I've spent time in Jamaica, Bahamas and the DR and they're basically all nice dumps-great places to spend a week or two in the sun but tough places to live, especially as a local unless you're rich but even then, they live in gated communities with security guards and the omnipresent fear that they could be robbed or much worse at any given point.

It seems that you've painted yourself of a rosy picture of Haiti by cherry picking statistics and chatting to a few Haitians but you must've come across the blatantly obvious- that Haiti is basically a failed state, the poorest country in the western hemisphere, largely dependent upon foreign aid and still recovering from a massive earthquake that destroyed much of the capital's infrastructure. Deforestation is a major issue and in recent years desperate Haitians have resorted to eating mud cookies. Of course, the Clintons ripping them off didn't help but Haiti is a corrupt, violent country that probably won't improve much in our lifetimes, unfortunately. If you haven't spent much time in the 3rd world, it's difficult to imagine the affect growing up in such a harsh environment has on a person who comes from a place like Haiti; many are literally on survival mode. I experienced this after visiting Buenaventura in Colombia, which many describe as "Colombia's Haiti".

Colombia too has decent black women if you're interested- many of them Protestants in cities like Cali and Cartagena. Bigger countries like Colombia, Mexico, Brazil, etc have everything Haiti offers and more in terms of infrastructure, sights, history, food, cosmopolitan lifestyle, rural lifestyle, Caribbean beaches, etc and at better prices.
Do Sao Paulo, Brazil and (a very short trip to) Johannesburg, South Africa qualify as third-world?
(I would not visit Jamaica , though.)
hve not been to Colombia (albeit the Colombia I met abroad were really nice people). As you know, real Black women are tiny minority in Colombia. And the social structure of Colombia in many aspects is similar to Brazil's I believe I would encounter the same problems there as I encountered din Brazil years ago. (see my other reply.)
So, for me it has to be a Black Christian lady from either Haiti or from an African country of my careful choice.

Before you judge: remember Roosh's recent article on St Louis, Missouri. He did not deny the problems of St Louis but he acknowledged that the few positives in some suburbs would make his consider staying there.
I don't deny the problems Haiti is having. But I would certainly consider spending some time there in order to find a nice Black Christian wife.
Consider that the world has gone insane in the last few years. A Christian man needs to go out his way to find a suitable Christian wife in order to get married and start a strong family. That's all I am trying to do. There are more ways to for a man to achieve this.
Peace.
 
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