Harley-Davidson salesmen show prospective buyers how much "attention" they'll get
- Thread starter Roosh
- Start date
RE: Harley-Davidson salesmen show prospective buyers how much "attention" th...
The motorcycle market is.. complicated. HD is selling a lifestyle, so it's no surprise their sales materials mention what Roosh posted. I bet it's quite similar for a sports car too.
HD has never been about being the faster or lightest bike on the road. It's about a lifestyle and made-in-USA brand (built in York, Pennsylvania).
Their issue is that the people who like the brand are getting old and dying, to be blunt. The younger generation isn't as eager to get a driver's license at all, let alone a motorcycle license.
Preferences change, plain and simple. Look at another industry facing the same issue: country clubs. They used to be the center of the social scene for a typical American family, but now there are many more opportunities. The other draw was the golf course, but the younger generation just isn't into golf that much. So country clubs face and aging and dying customer base -- just like HD.
The motorcycle market is.. complicated. HD is selling a lifestyle, so it's no surprise their sales materials mention what Roosh posted. I bet it's quite similar for a sports car too.
HD has never been about being the faster or lightest bike on the road. It's about a lifestyle and made-in-USA brand (built in York, Pennsylvania).
Their issue is that the people who like the brand are getting old and dying, to be blunt. The younger generation isn't as eager to get a driver's license at all, let alone a motorcycle license.
Preferences change, plain and simple. Look at another industry facing the same issue: country clubs. They used to be the center of the social scene for a typical American family, but now there are many more opportunities. The other draw was the golf course, but the younger generation just isn't into golf that much. So country clubs face and aging and dying customer base -- just like HD.
RE: Harley-Davidson salesmen show prospective buyers how much "attention" th...
Clubs in general are dying. Like I said, a young Elk is about 70. A young person doesn't need a club to be social. They got a phone. Nevermind that connectivity and feelings of isolation are directly related.
Country clubs are in a really shaky position because membership is bought, at a high price. Algonquin country club in St Louis? You need a sponsor or two, plus $50k to get in the door. Yearly dues are about 7 grand after that. I'm not from the strata, but even if I was, finding value in that would be difficult.
Clubs in general are dying. Like I said, a young Elk is about 70. A young person doesn't need a club to be social. They got a phone. Nevermind that connectivity and feelings of isolation are directly related.
Country clubs are in a really shaky position because membership is bought, at a high price. Algonquin country club in St Louis? You need a sponsor or two, plus $50k to get in the door. Yearly dues are about 7 grand after that. I'm not from the strata, but even if I was, finding value in that would be difficult.
RE: Harley-Davidson salesmen show prospective buyers how much "attention" th...
I think this is a lot of it. Preferences and perceptions - there was a time when owning a motorcycle might have been about freedom or a brotherhood or getting noticed (in a positive way), now it's seems a little trashy. Any time I hear a loud motorcycle, I think it's a redneck trying too hard. Maybe it's different in other parts of the country or world.
I had a dirt bike as a kid, several of the neighborhood guys thought we were going to be the next Travis Pastrana. We would set up jumps and end up getting hurt but it was fun. These days, I'd rather get a Sea-Doo and a jet pack.
EDIT:
The local exclusive club used to have a multi year waiting list and a $50k buy in, now they'll take anyone willing to write a check for $20k.
The only reason it made sense for the old guard was for the business networking and society contacts. Back in the day, men could easily find suitable husbands for their daughters at the club. Now, there are better ways of doing that and you're left with a decent golf course, okay food and some tennis or swimming lessons.
paninaro said:
I think this is a lot of it. Preferences and perceptions - there was a time when owning a motorcycle might have been about freedom or a brotherhood or getting noticed (in a positive way), now it's seems a little trashy. Any time I hear a loud motorcycle, I think it's a redneck trying too hard. Maybe it's different in other parts of the country or world.
I had a dirt bike as a kid, several of the neighborhood guys thought we were going to be the next Travis Pastrana. We would set up jumps and end up getting hurt but it was fun. These days, I'd rather get a Sea-Doo and a jet pack.
EDIT:
Eazy_E said:
The local exclusive club used to have a multi year waiting list and a $50k buy in, now they'll take anyone willing to write a check for $20k.
The only reason it made sense for the old guard was for the business networking and society contacts. Back in the day, men could easily find suitable husbands for their daughters at the club. Now, there are better ways of doing that and you're left with a decent golf course, okay food and some tennis or swimming lessons.
^what you figure is a better way to find a husband for a daughter nowadays?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veiled_Prophet_Ball
It's not much of a secret this is a debutante ball and a match making event for the upper most upper crust of St Louis. I've worked the door before and I can personally confirm, rich guys get the best women, who in turn produce the best daughters. You want your lineage to get diluted by some fucking commoner? Hell no you don't. You go to the VP and introduce your daughter to some kid who's name is soon to be Chad Chaddington Esq.
It's not much of a secret this is a debutante ball and a match making event for the upper most upper crust of St Louis. I've worked the door before and I can personally confirm, rich guys get the best women, who in turn produce the best daughters. You want your lineage to get diluted by some fucking commoner? Hell no you don't. You go to the VP and introduce your daughter to some kid who's name is soon to be Chad Chaddington Esq.
RE: Harley-Davidson salesmen show prospective buyers how much "attention" th...
I have some miele stuff here, it cost me less than the equivalent from asia (samsung/lg).
I usually buy stuff from BSH though.
Also kids are poor and can't afford a bike ?
So was I when I was young, and I don't think the secret to getting a bike anyway has changed : buy something which is 20 years old, and learn how to fix it yourself.
These days a VFR800 can be had for the price of a new iphone, just to give a random example.
So, which one are they going to choose ?
Handsome Creepy Eel said:
I have some miele stuff here, it cost me less than the equivalent from asia (samsung/lg).
I usually buy stuff from BSH though.
Also kids are poor and can't afford a bike ?
So was I when I was young, and I don't think the secret to getting a bike anyway has changed : buy something which is 20 years old, and learn how to fix it yourself.
These days a VFR800 can be had for the price of a new iphone, just to give a random example.
So, which one are they going to choose ?
With any vehicle when you're young and living in a "freeeee" Western nation it's usually the bevy of taxes and regulations that kill you.
In Australia for example you have to pay registration fees on all your vehicles as a sort of road-use-tax despite the fact that you can obviously only drive one of them at time. Hence a lot of people are hesitant to almost double their registration costs or choose a fair-weather 1-2 person vehicle over a car.
Add the costs of decent safety gear and the cheap motorcycle aint so cheap anymore.
In Australia for example you have to pay registration fees on all your vehicles as a sort of road-use-tax despite the fact that you can obviously only drive one of them at time. Hence a lot of people are hesitant to almost double their registration costs or choose a fair-weather 1-2 person vehicle over a car.
Add the costs of decent safety gear and the cheap motorcycle aint so cheap anymore.
RE: Harley-Davidson salesmen show prospective buyers how much "attention" th...
Areas along the Gulf Coast where they do Mardi Gras also have coming out parties, which are associated with Krewes.
I think the Krewe system works very well. Of course they put on Mardi Gras parades, but they also have year round activities, including balls, dinners, and the like.
A young man could do well by going to a Gulf State University, joining a fraternity, then getting a good job with your fraternity connections, joining a Krewe, attending a big local church, and marrying a rich business man's daughter. Send your kids to private school, then raise them up to follow the same path.
Eazy_E said:
Areas along the Gulf Coast where they do Mardi Gras also have coming out parties, which are associated with Krewes.
I think the Krewe system works very well. Of course they put on Mardi Gras parades, but they also have year round activities, including balls, dinners, and the like.
A young man could do well by going to a Gulf State University, joining a fraternity, then getting a good job with your fraternity connections, joining a Krewe, attending a big local church, and marrying a rich business man's daughter. Send your kids to private school, then raise them up to follow the same path.
griffinmill
Pelican
RE: Harley-Davidson salesmen show prospective buyers how much "attention" th...
Cars and bikes that make lots of noise are popular signals for sexual fitness for the driver, in a second-hand way. Much in the same way the plumage for the peacock is a signal for good genes. Surviving successfully with something loud or elaborate or wilfully extravagant attached to us suggests our overall health and fitness is good.
Roosh said:
Cars and bikes that make lots of noise are popular signals for sexual fitness for the driver, in a second-hand way. Much in the same way the plumage for the peacock is a signal for good genes. Surviving successfully with something loud or elaborate or wilfully extravagant attached to us suggests our overall health and fitness is good.
This is really a stretch as another reason to hate boomers, if by boomers you mean self absorbed, fake radical, selfish babies.
Harleys, to upper class people, were a sign of lower class, and even criminal lifestyle, like tattoos, and the two even went together back then, because the kind of people who rode them often also had a Harley tattoo, which is a marketer's dream, and a fool's brand loyalty.
When I think of Harleys, it instantly conjures up images of Hell's Angels, who could be a terror on West Coast highways back then. It was an outlaw aesthetic.
When I think of boomers, that is, people my age on a bike, I think of someone on a comfy bike, with all sorts of padding and a windshield more storage than you would know what to do with. A bike as close to a car as you can get. That seems like a more Boomer aesthetic, going to their jobs during the week and then getting together on the weekend, in leather jackets, on their comfy bikes, tooling around for a couple hours, feeling fake tough.
Maybe the cliche boomer is now just anyone that age, but I thought the cliche boomer was more of an upper class poseur who made things comfortable for himself, and then had the nerve to act like he had earned it and was a bit of a rebel.
That doesn't fit my idea of the typical Harley rider of that age, who were a legit rough crowd, or at least working class and not the typical soft boomer.
Might be different in the rest of the country. This was California.
Harleys, to upper class people, were a sign of lower class, and even criminal lifestyle, like tattoos, and the two even went together back then, because the kind of people who rode them often also had a Harley tattoo, which is a marketer's dream, and a fool's brand loyalty.
When I think of Harleys, it instantly conjures up images of Hell's Angels, who could be a terror on West Coast highways back then. It was an outlaw aesthetic.
When I think of boomers, that is, people my age on a bike, I think of someone on a comfy bike, with all sorts of padding and a windshield more storage than you would know what to do with. A bike as close to a car as you can get. That seems like a more Boomer aesthetic, going to their jobs during the week and then getting together on the weekend, in leather jackets, on their comfy bikes, tooling around for a couple hours, feeling fake tough.
Maybe the cliche boomer is now just anyone that age, but I thought the cliche boomer was more of an upper class poseur who made things comfortable for himself, and then had the nerve to act like he had earned it and was a bit of a rebel.
That doesn't fit my idea of the typical Harley rider of that age, who were a legit rough crowd, or at least working class and not the typical soft boomer.
Might be different in the rest of the country. This was California.
RE: Harley-Davidson salesmen show prospective buyers how much "attention" th...
My Miele shit is phenomenal. ...and ya - making stuff in the 1st world costs a lot more than making it in an Asian sweatshop.
Just because something is made out of higher quality parts doesn't mean it doesn't break. ...and when it does break under warranty that has a price to the company. It's usually shit products that have longer warranties to hide their deficiencies.
Handsome Creepy Eel said:
My Miele shit is phenomenal. ...and ya - making stuff in the 1st world costs a lot more than making it in an Asian sweatshop.
Just because something is made out of higher quality parts doesn't mean it doesn't break. ...and when it does break under warranty that has a price to the company. It's usually shit products that have longer warranties to hide their deficiencies.
RE: Harley-Davidson salesmen show prospective buyers how much "attention" th...
Miele vs. anti_Miele.
The future of the forum hangs in the balance.
achromaticmike said:
Miele vs. anti_Miele.
The future of the forum hangs in the balance.
Easy_C
Peacock
To be fair a lot of biking is image, and biker culture recognizes amongst themselves that image is important (contrary to the “We don’t care what society thinks” image they sell outsiders).
That cuts both ways. I’m pretty sure I’ve avoided a mugging because the dudes saw I was a dude on a bike (actually huge, not like these little 883s), wearing patches that indicated having acquaintances in some local clubs, and looking grumpy.
Other friends have also had experiences like people trying to hide their kids from being seen by the “scary biker” when the dude in question is a diehard evangelical with a teddy bear personality.
That cuts both ways. I’m pretty sure I’ve avoided a mugging because the dudes saw I was a dude on a bike (actually huge, not like these little 883s), wearing patches that indicated having acquaintances in some local clubs, and looking grumpy.
Other friends have also had experiences like people trying to hide their kids from being seen by the “scary biker” when the dude in question is a diehard evangelical with a teddy bear personality.
I'm pretty sure that Jeep Wranglers with aftermarket angry face grilles are the Harley equivalent for millennials. At least in my area.
dicknixon72
Pelican
RE: Harley-Davidson salesmen show prospective buyers how much "attention" th...
Black XD 20s wrapped in 33 Mickey Thompsons, a 4" Rough Country lift, metal bumpers, color-keyed Angry Bird grille, 15k-lbs winch, and enough ancillary lighting to make the Sun envious. And yet they still swerve around 1" of standing water.
HermeticAlly said:
Black XD 20s wrapped in 33 Mickey Thompsons, a 4" Rough Country lift, metal bumpers, color-keyed Angry Bird grille, 15k-lbs winch, and enough ancillary lighting to make the Sun envious. And yet they still swerve around 1" of standing water.
spokepoker
Hummingbird
This has been their marketing strategy for a little over a hundred years now, ever since WW1 vets came back, and having been trained in the army to work on harleys, and riding them throughout europe, they got together and formed clubs with others who did the same.
This was harley's intention in the first place, they sell the motorcycles to the army, and offer free training programs so soldiers could repair them in the field, creating a loyal customer base who "rode to hell and back" on those harleys.
This is just continuing that marketing, getting customers to bond and be loyal to the brand.
This was harley's intention in the first place, they sell the motorcycles to the army, and offer free training programs so soldiers could repair them in the field, creating a loyal customer base who "rode to hell and back" on those harleys.
This is just continuing that marketing, getting customers to bond and be loyal to the brand.
RE: Harley-Davidson salesmen show prospective buyers how much "attention" th...
When you get the manosphere talking about kitchen appliances, well .. yeah, maybe it does
debeguiled said:Miele vs. anti_Miele.
The future of the forum hangs in the balance.
When you get the manosphere talking about kitchen appliances, well .. yeah, maybe it does
RE: Harley-Davidson salesmen show prospective buyers how much "attention" th...
Oh, so you're one of those people
Exactly. If Miele has charged me 800% more for their product, surely some of that awesome profit margin could go towards absorbing "breakdowns under warranty that have a price to the company". Shamelessly dumping repair costs on the consumer is exactly how Asian sweatshop companies behave.
[attachment=42526]
achromaticmike said:
Oh, so you're one of those people
Exactly. If Miele has charged me 800% more for their product, surely some of that awesome profit margin could go towards absorbing "breakdowns under warranty that have a price to the company". Shamelessly dumping repair costs on the consumer is exactly how Asian sweatshop companies behave.
debeguiled said:Miele vs. anti_Miele.
The future of the forum hangs in the balance.
[attachment=42526]
