Have any of you given up on women?

BiggNastee

Kingfisher
I get why you guys are saying this but I think it's more complicated than that. It's my opinion since I wasn't alive back then either, but women are much more shy and protected by their families back then too. You're making it sound like women were just throwing themselves at dudes, begging to have their babies and that wasn't the case. Women took longer to woo, and it was also common for them to turn down a guy they liked because the guy across the street had more money or their father told them to.

You and elipe are smart dudes, I think but y'all are way off on this one.
I hate to say this because I am definitely no authority.. if us "cultured" people would just stop with the (sorry Roosh, but) Fucking phones. Civilisation might me able to heal itself rather quickly. Instead were stuck in the doldrums of hoping in one and laughing at the other.

But maybe try putting your phones away.. if you're in public just say hi to everybody. Maybe I live in a special place but I doubt it. Practice, and then come back and say you have given up on women
 

NoMoreTO

Hummingbird
Catholic
I just had the thought that Stages of Grief explain the modern man's relationship with women.


Denial: Blue pill. Keep screwing up with women and relationships you actually want. Spending time and putting emotional energy into women you don't really respect. Bending a knee to a woman, in the hopes that things will sort out. Giving up your God given right to authority over your wife.

Anger: Shattered ruthlessly by a woman you made your everything. Realizing women are awful, hating on them. For many men this happens after the divorce, in this case they take at least half your stuff too, plus have a chain on your income via alimony.

Bargaining: Sleeping with women as a rationalization that you can still get what you want because, well there are so few ladies, you take a woman and use her body like a toilet.

Depression: Out there for an extended period of time with lackluster options for a real woman. I would describe this as my late TO experience.

Acceptance 1- Having a girlfriend, wanting a wife, when she "tests" your resolve on something important, you don't bargain an inch with her beyond what is reasonable to your own good conscience. She gets frustrated with you, but still keeps wanting to be around you. You know that if she really breaks a "must have" then you will just move on without major emotional issues. Part of the problem with acceptance, is it's strange that if she runs you aren't emotionally shattered.
Acceptance 2: Taking a wife, accepting her flaws and limitations.
Acceptance 3: Single guy, not depressed about women, living his own life and open to who comes into his life.
 
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Acceptance 2: Taking a wife, accepting her flaws and limitations.
I can accept a wife's character flaws, but I have a very hard time to accept that her looks will deteriorate from age 38 onwards at the latest. Have you seen Brigitte Bardot lately? Pamela Anderson? It's horrific. A real horror show.

I don't know how men can accept women's deterioration of looks after a certain age. That's extremely difficult for me. Who would want to wake up next to a 49 year old instead of a 22 year old? It's very hard to accept.
 

ScannerLIV

Woodpecker
I can accept a wife's character flaws, but I have a very hard time to accept that her looks will deteriorate from age 38 onwards at the latest. Have you seen Brigitte Bardot lately? Pamela Anderson? It's horrific. A real horror show.

I don't know how men can accept women's deterioration of looks after a certain age. That's extremely difficult for me. Who would want to wake up next to a 49 year old instead of a 22 year old? It's very hard to accept.
Then marry a Serb or Pole-they are quite attractive even into their 50s.

Anglo girls , latina, eastern slavs, etc-not so much.
 

NoMoreTO

Hummingbird
Catholic
I can accept a wife's character flaws, but I have a very hard time to accept that her looks will deteriorate from age 38 onwards at the latest. Have you seen Brigitte Bardot lately? Pamela Anderson? It's horrific. A real horror show.

I don't know how men can accept women's deterioration of looks after a certain age. That's extremely difficult for me. Who would want to wake up next to a 49 year old instead of a 22 year old? It's very hard to accept.

I think the issue with these women is that they are trying to look 22 when they are 52, rather than a woman who is 52 who takes care of herself.

Beauty fades, find a girl a little younger yes, but if she's loyal and the mother of your children, it won't be your priority when you're 55.

Besides, it is a little strange for a guy in his 50s to be going out with a 20 something, you start getting older and don't relate so much to the kids. I'd go for character, and a good metabolism ;)
 

Enoch

Hummingbird
I can accept a wife's character flaws, but I have a very hard time to accept that her looks will deteriorate from age 38 onwards at the latest. Have you seen Brigitte Bardot lately? Pamela Anderson? It's horrific. A real horror show.

I don't know how men can accept women's deterioration of looks after a certain age. That's extremely difficult for me. Who would want to wake up next to a 49 year old instead of a 22 year old? It's very hard to accept.
Definitely one of the worst parts about marrying a woman in the 30s or up is that you never really knew her at her best. Some older married guys around here call them "wife goggles" i.e. your wife is always 25 and radiant in your eyes.
 
I think the issue with these women is that they are trying to look 22 when they are 52, rather than a woman who is 52 who takes care of herself.

Beauty fades, find a girl a little younger yes, but if she's loyal and the mother of your children, it won't be your priority when you're 55.

Besides, it is a little strange for a guy in his 50s to be going out with a 20 something, you start getting older and don't relate so much to the kids. I'd go for character, and a good metabolism ;)
I know what you say is correct, should be correct, I'm 50 but I'm not sure I won't care about how she looks at 55. Maybe at 69 when my own drive has dried up, but now, I have to say I would welcome a 22-25 year old with open arms. The worst is when you got a 7.5 and see her deteriorate into a 6, then 5, then 4. Of course character is more important, but if she looks like an old Bardot, I don't think I want to wake up next to that either. Maybe it's me.
 

Thomas More

Hummingbird
I know what you say is correct, should be correct, I'm 50 but I'm not sure I won't care about how she looks at 55. Maybe at 69 when my own drive has dried up, but now, I have to say I would welcome a 22-25 year old with open arms. The worst is when you got a 7.5 and see her deteriorate into a 6, then 5, then 4. Of course character is more important, but if she looks like an old Bardot, I don't think I want to wake up next to that either. Maybe it's me.
I am 57, and I can't imagine dating a woman my age, or a few years younger. If I find myself single, I would prefer to date and marry a woman of child bearing age.

When I was younger, I always assumed that older men are naturally attracted to women their age, or slightly younger, so if a man is widowed, it's normal for him to be interested in "age appropriate" women. Now that I am older, I can say it's not true for me.
 
Definitely one of the worst parts about marrying a woman in the 30s or up is that you never really knew her at her best. Some older married guys around here call them "wife goggles" i.e. your wife is always 25 and radiant in your eyes.
Very true. And another disadvantage if you marry one in her 30s already is that the deterioration of her looks is very close. I used to think 10 years difference was plenty, but now at 50, I'd say early 20s is not too early, provided character, connection, etc are all there. Simply because from 38 to 58 a massive loss of a woman's looks is inevitable. The longer you can delay that the better.

Especially since older women of 40 plus also have their character flaws amplified, like with men, selfishness and bitterness start to creep in.
 

Blade Runner

Ostrich
Orthodox
I can accept a wife's character flaws, but I have a very hard time to accept that her looks will deteriorate from age 38 onwards at the latest. Have you seen Brigitte Bardot lately? Pamela Anderson? It's horrific. A real horror show.

I don't know how men can accept women's deterioration of looks after a certain age. That's extremely difficult for me. Who would want to wake up next to a 49 year old instead of a 22 year old? It's very hard to accept.
The only answer to this is knowing the realities of biology and that you have a loving disposition to a woman who gave you a family/legacy.

That's literally all. If that doesn't happen, you have to be bestowed some amazing gift of really being simpatico with a woman in the luckiest of ways, some sort of cosmic harmony that God gave you as a gift. Short of that, which I've hardly ever really seen (I think the most feminine ones actually double as the best energy complement and almost never would fail to have kids), I can't imagine doing it - not that others can't.
 

Blade Runner

Ostrich
Orthodox
Especially since older women of 40 plus also have their character flaws amplified, like with men, selfishness and bitterness start to creep in.
The first and most appalling recognition of just how bad it gets in the West for me (5 years back?) was the paradox of women demanding more as they lose greater value. This happens hysterically (no pun intended) from 21-26, and then amazingly from that point on until basically 35. When I realized how true that idea was and is, I actually just started bursting out laughing it was so preposterous.

I think this is why I think it's so lame when our friends around here claim we should not expect XYZ or something from women that we weren't ourselves. Well, my friends, that's just unrealistic and blue pill thinking. I think it comes from a good place (the christian one) but it gets distorted with emotionality that so frequently demonstrates the bastardization of modern christian approaches. I'm not stumping for or lauding any commission of sins, but the fact still remains that a woman sleeping around is so much worse (from a partner point of view) than a man doing it. It's literally a universal reality, given how easy it is for women to do and how prized virginity is in women, not men.

Indeed, not getting a woman anywhere near her finest and knowing she slept with other men at her finest is much to close a line to cuckoldry than I could withstand. I am only speaking for myself, and being honest.
 

Solitarius

Sparrow
The first and most appalling recognition of just how bad it gets in the West for me (5 years back?) was the paradox of women demanding more as they lose greater value. This happens hysterically (no pun intended) from 21-26, and then amazingly from that point on until basically 35. When I realized how true that idea was and is, I actually just started bursting out laughing it was so preposterous.

I think this is why I think it's so lame when our friends around here claim we should not expect XYZ or something from women that we weren't ourselves. Well, my friends, that's just unrealistic and blue pill thinking. I think it comes from a good place (the christian one) but it gets distorted with emotionality that so frequently demonstrates the bastardization of modern christian approaches. I'm not stumping for or lauding any commission of sins, but the fact still remains that a woman sleeping around is so much worse (from a partner point of view) than a man doing it. It's literally a universal reality, given how easy it is for women to do and how prized virginity is in women, not men.

Indeed, not getting a woman anywhere near her finest and knowing she slept with other men at her finest is much to close a line to cuckoldry than I could withstand. I am only speaking for myself, and being honest.
The fear of God is the beginning of his love: and the beginning of faith is to be fast joined unto it. [17] The sadness of the heart is every plague: and the wickedness of a woman is all evil. [18] And a man will choose any plague, but the plague of the heart: [19] And any wickedness, but the wickedness of a woman: [20] And any affliction, but the affliction from them that hate him:
[21] And any revenge, but the revenge of enemies. [22] There is no head worse than the head of a serpent: [23] And there is no anger above the anger of a woman. It will be more agreeable to abide with a lion and a dragon, than to dwell with a wicked woman. [24] The wickedness of a woman changeth her face: and she darkeneth her countenance as a bear: and sheweth it like sackcloth. In the midst of her neighbours, [25] Her husband groaned, and hearing he sighed a little.
[26] All malice is short to the malice of a woman, let the lot of sinners fall upon her. [27] As the climbing of a sandy way is to the feet of the aged, so is a wife full of tongue to a quiet man. [28] Look not upon a woman's beauty, and desire not a woman for beauty. [29] A woman's anger, and impudence, and confusion is great. [30] A woman, if she have superiority, is contrary to her husband.
[31] A wicked woman abateth the courage, and maketh a heavy countenance, and a wounded heart. [32] Feeble hands, and disjointed knees, a woman that doth not make her husband happy. [33] From the woman came the beginning of sin, and by her we all die. [34] Give no issue to thy water, no, not a little: nor to a wicked woman liberty to gad abroad. [35] If she walk not at thy hand, she will confound thee in the sight of thy enemies.
[36] Cut her off from thy flesh, lest she always abuse thee.

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This selection from the Holy Scripture is good to meditate upon when it comes to women & how much suffering they can cause a man who has decided that he would rather enter into a bad marriage than remain unmarried.
 
The only answer to this is knowing the realities of biology and that you have a loving disposition to a woman who gave you a family/legacy.

That's literally all. If that doesn't happen, you have to be bestowed some amazing gift of really being simpatico with a woman in the luckiest of ways, some sort of cosmic harmony that God gave you as a gift. Short of that, which I've hardly ever really seen (I think the most feminine ones actually double as the best energy complement and almost never would fail to have kids), I can't imagine doing it - not that others can't.
I will be straight up with you. I married a woman and she was mostly good to me and took very good care of me. She wanted kids, I did not, but agreed to make her happy. So I really have that loving disposition towards her, she gave me two kids, even if they're girls they're great. Nevertheless, the realities of biology are a real problem. I met her at 19, she was ten years younger. I thought it was plenty. However at 41 she changed noticeably. Still slim, but the face. It went from a 7.5 to a 6. I can see the slide will only get worse. But that's not all. The stress of child management changed her character entirely. Much more headstrong, selfish, unpleasant. Less pleasing. I love her in that post-romantic care for a person way, but if I could change her for a fun 21 year old I would seriously consider it.

And I know the bible has a lot of wisdom, and one should not look at beauty, that it's ephemeral and when I'm 90 I'd regret it. But right now a re-boot looks very tempting.

I guess, what I'm saying is that it doesn't end when you find a good partner and have kids. The real tests and problems keep coming.

Knowing what I know now, I would never start anything with a 30 year old. It sounds like old PUA stuff, but 18-25 really is the sweetspot. You can also educate them much better at that age, also from an LTR it just makes more sense.
 
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darknavigator

Robin
Catholic
@ Blade Runner

"Indeed, not getting a woman anywhere near her finest and knowing she slept with other men at her finest is much to close a line to cuckoldry than I could withstand. I am only speaking for myself, and being honest"

I totally agree with you and this is par for the course in the West. I have relatives / friends / acquaintances in this situation and I'm like "does it not kill you to think that she might hear an old song on the radio and it will mentally transport her back to her best years and her boyfriend at the time?"

Also, to the people who advise men to be "more alpha" and to "maintain frame" - this is the manosphere equivalent of "just be yourself"
 

tomzestatlu

Kingfisher
Agnostic
I will be straight up with you. I married a woman and she was mostly good to me and took very good care of me. She wanted kids, I did not, but agreed to make her happy. So I really have that loving disposition towards her, she gave me two kids, even if they're girls they're great. Nevertheless, the realities of biology are a real problem. I met her at 19, she was ten years younger. I thought it was plenty. However at 41 she changed noticeably. Still slim, but the face. It went from a 7.5 to a 6. I can see the slide will only get worse. But that's not all. The stress of child management changed her character entirely. Much more headstrong, selfish, unpleasant. Less pleasing. I love her in that post-romantic care for a person way, but if I could change her for a fun 21 year old I would seriously consider it.
So you find a decent girl in her prime with probably good history and good genetics. Have a children with her, let her raise them up and take care of family, what results in taking a toll on her.
And then dump her for a girl half of her age.

Maybe she might rethink her choices and start regretting not chosing a career over family, which could definitely result in aging slower.

And also, a lot of older guys don't realize, that girls born somewhere in 90s and later are so much different from those older. If somebody has different experience, good for him.
 
So you find a decent girl in her prime with probably good history and good genetics. Have a children with her, let her raise them up and take care of family, what results in taking a toll on her.
And then dump her for a girl half of her age.

Maybe she might rethink her choices and start regretting not chosing a career over family, which could definitely result in aging slower.

And also, a lot of older guys don't realize, that girls born somewhere in 90s and later are so much different from those older. If somebody has different experience, good for him.
Yeah, that's why I haven't left. Because she was loyal and a good wife. Plus of course I want to be close to the children. However, raising children takes a massive toll on a woman's looks and psychological make-up and when women hit 40 they become considerably less attractive, both physically and characterwise.

Having children also makes them incredibly boring to talk to. Family life is not the paradise it's made out to be.

I'm not happy the way things have turned out. They could be a lot worse, but if I knew then what I know now I would not agree to have children.
 

tressemmes3

 
Banned
Yeah, that's why I haven't left. Because she was loyal and a good wife. Plus of course I want to be close to the children. However, raising children takes a massive toll on a woman's looks and psychological make-up and when women hit 40 they become considerably less attractive, both physically and characterwise.

Having children also makes them incredibly boring to talk to. Family life is not the paradise it's made out to be.

I'm not happy the way things have turned out. They could be a lot worse, but if I knew then what I know now I would not agree to have children.

Have to comment on this as your posts about your wife are annoying me. Wake up old man, youre like 55 years old and whining that the 19 year old female you got to give you her entire life and 2 kids on top of it is not making your willie spring to action now that she is 42 like the girls on the street do.

That is NORMAL. Sexual attraction is not a PRIORITY in a long term marriage.

What normal sensible men do is get a very low key side chick or pay for escorts. However, you sound like you live in the Devil's lair aka Jewmerica so you're screwed on both fronts - pay 4 play is hilariously overpriced in the Jewmericas so in order to get with an attractive 20 year old like you fantasize for you need to shell out $600 for starfish sex since these paid women scoff at anything below a full night engagement, and if you want to make it a weekly thing that's a $2400 monthly expenditure.

On the other front with the side chick, you're also screwed since the sugar babies in the Jewmericas are spoiled rotten(due to the extremely low amount of slim women in Fatmerica) so they think they deserve a Tom Brady lookalike billionaire sugar daddy and a random 55 yo man on a middle class income is not gonna cut it.

So you have to be straight with yourself - are you going to pull the plug on a 20++ years of marriage which resulted in 2 grown kids with a female that you caught in the teen age or you're gonna suck it up and concentrate on the fact that the grass is not greener on the other side?
 
Have to comment on this as your posts about your wife are annoying me. Wake up old man, youre like 55 years old and whining that the 19 year old female you got to give you her entire life and 2 kids on top of it is not making your willie spring to action now that she is 42 like the girls on the street do.

That is NORMAL. Sexual attraction is not a PRIORITY in a long term marriage.

What normal sensible men do is get a very low key side chick or pay for escorts. However, you sound like you live in the Devil's lair aka Jewmerica so you're screwed on both fronts - pay 4 play is hilariously overpriced in the Jewmericas so in order to get with an attractive 20 year old like you fantasize for you need to shell out $600 for starfish sex since these paid women scoff at anything below a full night engagement, and if you want to make it a weekly thing that's a $2400 monthly expenditure.

On the other front with the side chick, you're also screwed since the sugar babies in the Jewmericas are spoiled rotten(due to the extremely low amount of slim women in Fatmerica) so they think they deserve a Tom Brady lookalike billionaire sugar daddy and a random 55 yo man on a middle class income is not gonna cut it.

So you have to be straight with yourself - are you going to pull the plug on a 20++ years of marriage which resulted in 2 grown kids with a female that you caught in the teen age or you're gonna suck it up and concentrate on the fact that the grass is not greener on the other side?
First of all I'm not 55, I'm 50 and I look a lot younger. Secondly the 40 year old is still slim and perfectly able to satisfy sexual demands. Thirdly I wouldn't hook up with most girls on the street, or prostitutes, if you paid me.

Fourthly, sexual attraction is a major priority in any healthy man's life and relationship, until his own urges wither away, which is a long way off in my case, it will probably be 68 or so.

Fifthly, I don't live in the US right now and I can easily get with an attractive 20something, I don't need to fantasize about it.

Sixth, you don't need to be a Tom Brady billionaire to score a side-chick.

The problem is the grass IS greener on the other side, a 23 year old will be more fun, more attractive than a decent 41 year old mother of two. It's just the way it is.

So I'd say pretty much everything in your comment is wrong.
 

tressemmes3

 
Banned
For all the hard time we give women for being disloyal and blowing up marriages when the tingles stop we never give attention to guys like you who would do the same exact thing.

Good on you that you don't live in Fatmerica so at least you got that going for you.

However, you really need a reality check on the fact that no attractive 23 year old girl is going to be impressed by the fact that "you look younger for your age". I mean how young do you think you look? You might have protected your facial skin from the sun so now you don't look like a baked potato and you train, got all your hair still? You realize that every guy above 15 knows he has to hit the gym hard to compete so you have 18 year old tall guys that look like gods walking everywhere now?

The reality check that you need is that for every attractive 23 yo girl IN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE, a guy above 30 is nothing but a walking wallet to be shat on and played games with. You are out of your depth with any attractive 23 yo girl you think you can attract for a girlfriend, as now they are clued in on the immense social capital their slit gives them online and in real life. Has she got an instagram?(pfft, of course she does!) Great, she has a millionaire from somewhere 7000 miles away offering her a dubai vacation.

Face the facts - you got your wife at 19(aka the dream of the large majority of men) and she gave you 20 years of her life and 2 kids and by the sound of it not a significant amount of drama for those 20 years and you say she is still mountable. Congratulations you won at life basically.
 
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