It's interesting to think about arranged marriage in this regard. Sure, if it goes against the wishes of one of the participants it's not a good thing. But if it gives a good future perspective, calculated by the families, and the participants agree with it, then isn't it a beautiful thing? Nowadays we're given a smartphone and dumped in the swamp by ourselves to figure it all out. Usually leading to disaster, confusion, destruction, nihilism.I wonder if this has some bearing on why all the biblical Patriachal marriages throughout the Old (and New) Covenant were pre-arranged unions.
These are good points, but the culture has created expectations within women that then, as a result, we men have to deal with. This is the harder part of it all, because typically we have the most to lose, and have to gauge what we actually gain with all of the headaches involved.This actually is an interesting point. When reading the Screwtape letters by C.S. Lewis at some point the demons discuss the purpuse of true marriage. They make a very important point: marriage is a responsibility. It's not about short term love and emotions, but about the responsibility to form and take care for a family and to procreate the human race. It's not a ''choice'' in that regard. Sure, love is very important, but it's a more tranquil, arrangement like love focused on the long term instead the short term emotional laden love we are fed with in the reversed truth world we live in. Really put things into perspective for me. That being said, whether I'll marry I've no idea, I have a feeling that personally it is not part of God's plan for me, but we'll see.
I wonder if this has some bearing on why all the biblical Patriachal marriages throughout the Old (and New) Covenant were pre-arranged unions.
It's interesting to think about arranged marriage in this regard. Sure, if it goes against the wishes of one of the participants it's not a good thing. But if it gives a good future perspective, calculated by the families, and the participants agree with it, then isn't it a beautiful thing? Nowadays we're given a smartphone and dumped in the swamp by ourselves to figure it all out. Usually leading to disaster, confusion, destruction, nihilism.
When Abraham sent his servant to find a wife for Isaac. Its case in point as to the best way to find a woman to marry. He both did character evaluation and physical beauty both of which Rebekah passed muster.
I mean if Fathers can help their daughters find good suitors or provide a pool of good prospects. Why not.
Ah the good old days^.
A man never had to worry if she was the type he should dare bring home to meet the parents; the parents brought her home to meet you!
In the West men have been raised with the idea that life is easy and the end goal is happiness. This is not reality obviously and a way to make you have a severe crash later in life, which many don't come back from. Nowhere this is more obvious than in male/female relationships. The core in any relationship to work is for the man to be a man, and for the woman to be a woman. For the man this means being dominant, the leader, capable, providing safety, being responsible, solving problems, for the woman this means respecting the man, take care of the house and the children. That's the only way women truly will be happy, as this is the role they were meant to play from the beginning, however many men can't live up to the expectations from the woman which I described and which are presuppositional to a woman respecting a man. And without respect there can't be a relationship, it'll fail sooner or later. So if we understand this reality we can navigate ourselves in a relationship, set the right boundaries and not dwell in illusory ideas about a perfect woman.Reading through some of the posts in here is quite sad. Probably decent men rejected by women in their own culture and men who seem to have perfectly decent wives but are not happy. I've been there. Never had a real girlfriend until I lived in Asia. My ex-wife made my life a living hell and then ditched me and my children. Still I would have stayed with her and hoped she would eventually change. I think we have to accept that no woman is perfect but neither are we. To be honest I can't imagine why someone would want me. The thought of growing old alone is very depressing and COVID has made this more complicated. Realistically, what can a mid-40s western man who is not particularly wealthy expect in the way of a spouse? A women in her mid to late 30s? What are some serious dating avenues (for someone who wants to be a Christian not looking for casual sex)?
Yup, the culture has told women to do anything that possibly can be done contrary to her feminine nature and women, women as they are, of course follow what society says as there is no more dominant frame in the environment, such as her father's, who has been socially conditioned as well.These are good points, but the culture has created expectations within women that then, as a result, we men have to deal with. This is the harder part of it all, because typically we have the most to lose, and have to gauge what we actually gain with all of the headaches involved.
Think about it, until 100 yeas ago back to thousands of years prior, from the dawn of human existence, the points you make would be available in literally every woman available for marriage. We live in the worst time of history for serious relationships let alone marriage, with a secular woman it must be near to impossible.I don't know if this has been touched upon already so I wanted to gauge others thoughts. For me personally I have not lost my desire for women or the want to have a wife and family but I have to admit that I have not actually felt excited about a women in a long time.
I'm not talking about sexual desire or the slight anxiety that you get before meeting a women for the first time but rather the motivated mood and exhilaration you get when you start to date a girl. It just seems to me that every woman I go out and converse with has some type of massive flaw right out of the gate.
I don't think I'm unreasonable with my standards but if anyone wants to chime in please do. My standards are what follows:
1) Believes in God - not necessarily even religious because that can be worked on but just actually believing in a God. It's insane how many young women are atheists/agnostics.
2) Isn't political - Not being liberal is a given but being a opinionated about politics on either end of the spectrum gets tiresome.
3) I'm attracted to them - includes no tattoos or unusual piercings and normal colored hair and not obese. I can work with a chick who's got an extra 10-15 pounds but it seems like most have an extra 50-60.
4) Doesn't have a mental illness or annoying personality - by annoying personality I mean is obnoxious or has a sarcastic personality that so many girls love these days.
5) Lastly, doesn't have a body count that would put a victorian era hooker to shame - I'm realistic and know the vast majority of girls would have had sex with another man before meeting me. I only ask that if her notch count was dollars that it would only be enough to buy me a cup of coffee and not a steak dinner.
That's it and it doesn't seem unreasonable to me but I've been wrong before. All of those things listed would still leave 90%+ of the available women from the dawn of man to the 2000s but it seems in modern times thats shrunk to 1/3 or maybe 1/4. Not having those 5 points met consistently over time has caused me to loose my excitement and motivation in finding a wife.
Maybe I'm just black pilled now but I still haven't given up on women. Giving up on anything you want is weak and cowardly but if you genuinely don't want a wife or family then that doesn't apply to you and I say Godspeed.
It's a combination. Eventually the core blame is on the devil, who made all the social conditioning drip through in society especially from the 60s onwards. Women as I've said before just follow the strongest frame, and men have lost that frame. What factually men are to be blamed of is exactly that: whatever way we look at it, our grandfathers let our fathers/mothers go severely off track, while they knew from their religious background were tricks of the devil. So there is a responsibility there, although of course I agree with you that men are under very intense social conditioning too. When you want to control a society the first thing you do is control the warrior class, the men. In the past they were just killed, all men between a certain age, now they are demobilized to slaves who pay their taxes, don't get respected by their wife and children, live a miserable life. The effect is the same, only now the slave men are not only harmless but also work like slaves and are a source of tax resources. The working ant.Reading through some of the posts, there are two things I strongly disagree with here.
First, blaming the current state of affairs on "men" as opposed to "women" is ridiculous and sounds a lot like gaslighting to me. Half the world already hates any sort of conservative heterosexual men for being evil colonialist racist homophobic and misogynistic pigs, and now some would guilt-shame us as feminism's enablers, too? If anything is to be considered "black pill", it would be this nonsensical blame game.
The title of this thread is a problem, I agree with this:I normally keep away from this thread as the title is too black pilled, as well as most of the content. I gave up on the anglosphere but definitely not on women from continental Europe. Not yet at least. Just can't see what is so terrible about them. Yes most of them are at least slightly affected by the social programming of our times, and some of them are a write-off.
...so basically the title of this thread says to me, lets all sit around and learn how to properly run a hose from the muffler into the cabin. Or lets all sit under a tree and practice tying knots in rope. It's just not right.Giving up on women is giving up on life its self. A place many of us find ourselves in.
Face the facts - you got your wife at 19(aka the dream of the large majority of men) and she gave you 20 years of her life and 2 kids and by the sound of it not a significant amount of drama for those 20 years and you say she is still mountable. Congratulations you won at life basically.
I also watch a mother in law doing ... out of respect won't say what. I know where MorganAlpha is coming from but wouldn't word it that way myself, rather keep respect for the family. It's no use living year in year out with regret about which women you should have been getting with, and resentment towards the mothers of our children. If that's the way you tick, it would be better for all concerned as others have suggested if you made sure to get your needs satisfied elsewhere.If this is winning in life I don't want to know what losing looks like. Visiting mother-in-law sitting at the breakfast table burping incessantly due to a stomach virus she got from the 4 year old, 41 year old wife chattering non-stop to her about child illnesses.
If you're trying to sell me paradise, I can assure you this is not it. Having a wife and children is not the dream it is made out to be.
A very secular non-spiritual attitude.. Just not quite right.In essence, yes, I really don't want to blow up my marriage. I'm just telling guys on here who are dreaming of a wife and children, if you get it, even if she is attractive, the kids are beautiful, this is no happiness guarantee. You've not made it. Life goes on.
Moaning like a drain, squealing like a stuck pig, whining like a ______ ?Coming here and complaining non-stop
At least you have a little something. I got red-pilled a long time ago but I have the triple-whammy of short, ugly and poor. Anyone I would want can do better than me. I'm mid-50's now and don't have a pot to pee in or a window to throw it out of.
The behavior of women as our spouses, and the behavior of women throughout society, are simply reflections of the spiritual state of men on the individual level and on the macro level, respectively. It seems impossible to find a good woman, and perhaps it is, as no man is good except God alone (Mark 10:18). This doesn't mean it's impossible to find a woman at a comparable spiritual state as ourselves, that in fact is almost inevitable unless we choose chastity, and it doesn't necessarily require a complete collapse of society or devastating hardships. Even the degenerate, idolatrous city of Nineveh repented and was spared that outcome.
There's a fine line between being a hateful sexist and a realist or as I like to call it, a chivalrous sexist.1) Intimidated incel.
2) Creepy pig.
3) Metoo rapist.
4) Boring beta.
5) Sexist patriarch.
Modern women are no joke.