Have any of you given up on women?

Viktor Zeegelaar

Hummingbird
Orthodox Inquirer
I wonder if this has some bearing on why all the biblical Patriachal marriages throughout the Old (and New) Covenant were pre-arranged unions.
It's interesting to think about arranged marriage in this regard. Sure, if it goes against the wishes of one of the participants it's not a good thing. But if it gives a good future perspective, calculated by the families, and the participants agree with it, then isn't it a beautiful thing? Nowadays we're given a smartphone and dumped in the swamp by ourselves to figure it all out. Usually leading to disaster, confusion, destruction, nihilism.
 

canuckj

Robin
Other Christian
Reading through some of the posts in here is quite sad. Probably decent men rejected by women in their own culture and men who seem to have perfectly decent wives but are not happy. I've been there. Never had a real girlfriend until I lived in Asia. My ex-wife made my life a living hell and then ditched me and my children. Still I would have stayed with her and hoped she would eventually change. I think we have to accept that no woman is perfect but neither are we. To be honest I can't imagine why someone would want me. The thought of growing old alone is very depressing and COVID has made this more complicated. Realistically, what can a mid-40s western man who is not particularly wealthy expect in the way of a spouse? A women in her mid to late 30s? What are some serious dating avenues (for someone who wants to be a Christian not looking for casual sex)?
 

Blade Runner

Ostrich
Orthodox
This actually is an interesting point. When reading the Screwtape letters by C.S. Lewis at some point the demons discuss the purpuse of true marriage. They make a very important point: marriage is a responsibility. It's not about short term love and emotions, but about the responsibility to form and take care for a family and to procreate the human race. It's not a ''choice'' in that regard. Sure, love is very important, but it's a more tranquil, arrangement like love focused on the long term instead the short term emotional laden love we are fed with in the reversed truth world we live in. Really put things into perspective for me. That being said, whether I'll marry I've no idea, I have a feeling that personally it is not part of God's plan for me, but we'll see.
These are good points, but the culture has created expectations within women that then, as a result, we men have to deal with. This is the harder part of it all, because typically we have the most to lose, and have to gauge what we actually gain with all of the headaches involved.
 

infowarrior1

Crow
Protestant
It's interesting to think about arranged marriage in this regard. Sure, if it goes against the wishes of one of the participants it's not a good thing. But if it gives a good future perspective, calculated by the families, and the participants agree with it, then isn't it a beautiful thing? Nowadays we're given a smartphone and dumped in the swamp by ourselves to figure it all out. Usually leading to disaster, confusion, destruction, nihilism.

I mean if Fathers can help their daughters find good suitors or provide a pool of good prospects. Why not.
 

No-Designation Man

Kingfisher
Other Christian
When Abraham sent his servant to find a wife for Isaac. Its case in point as to the best way to find a woman to marry. He both did character evaluation and physical beauty both of which Rebekah passed muster.
I mean if Fathers can help their daughters find good suitors or provide a pool of good prospects. Why not.

Ah the good old days^.
A man never had to worry if she was the type he should dare bring home to meet the parents; the parents brought her home to meet you! ;)
 
I don't know if this has been touched upon already so I wanted to gauge others thoughts. For me personally I have not lost my desire for women or the want to have a wife and family but I have to admit that I have not actually felt excited about a women in a long time.

I'm not talking about sexual desire or the slight anxiety that you get before meeting a women for the first time but rather the motivated mood and exhilaration you get when you start to date a girl. It just seems to me that every woman I go out and converse with has some type of massive flaw right out of the gate.

I don't think I'm unreasonable with my standards but if anyone wants to chime in please do. My standards are what follows:

1) Believes in God - not necessarily even religious because that can be worked on but just actually believing in a God. It's insane how many young women are atheists/agnostics.

2) Isn't political - Not being liberal is a given but being a opinionated about politics on either end of the spectrum gets tiresome.

3) I'm attracted to them - includes no tattoos or unusual piercings and normal colored hair and not obese. I can work with a chick who's got an extra 10-15 pounds but it seems like most have an extra 50-60.

4) Doesn't have a mental illness or annoying personality - by annoying personality I mean is obnoxious or has a sarcastic personality that so many girls love these days.

5) Lastly, doesn't have a body count that would put a victorian era hooker to shame - I'm realistic and know the vast majority of girls would have had sex with another man before meeting me. I only ask that if her notch count was dollars that it would only be enough to buy me a cup of coffee and not a steak dinner.

That's it and it doesn't seem unreasonable to me but I've been wrong before. All of those things listed would still leave 90%+ of the available women from the dawn of man to the 2000s but it seems in modern times thats shrunk to 1/3 or maybe 1/4. Not having those 5 points met consistently over time has caused me to loose my excitement and motivation in finding a wife.

Maybe I'm just black pilled now but I still haven't given up on women. Giving up on anything you want is weak and cowardly but if you genuinely don't want a wife or family then that doesn't apply to you and I say Godspeed.
 
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pathos

Sparrow
Orthodox Inquirer
Reading through some of the posts, there are two things I strongly disagree with here.

First, blaming the current state of affairs on "men" as opposed to "women" is ridiculous and sounds a lot like gaslighting to me. Half the world already hates any sort of conservative heterosexual men for being evil colonialist racist homophobic and misogynistic pigs, and now some would guilt-shame us as feminism's enablers, too? If anything is to be considered "black pill", it would be this nonsensical blame game.

As someone who already was pretty red pilled in my teens merely from observing the culture, I didn't sign up for this chaotic, "gender-dysphoric", feminist mess of a society nor did I create it. And neither did any of the people posting here. We didn't come up with no-fault divorce, either. To those people, I say: take your blame game elsewhere or redirect it towards those power structures actively defending the current status quo.

Second, giving up on women in favor of celibacy does not make you gay. It's perfectly legitimate to take "time off" from relationships with women especially given the current state of affairs where you have little return on investment anyway and civil marriage is a legal fiction. If anything is to be considered "gay", it would be putting women on a pedestal or hating them for being different from us men.

That said, I doubt anybody here has actually given up on women. Many of us have mothers, grandmothers or sisters that we love and appreciate. We're still attracted to the female sex and most of us would be married with kids today if we lived in a somewhat normal society.

Not too long before the covid-19 hoax began, I got out of a relationship with a so-called "devout" and self-styled "anti-feminist" woman desperate to get married and get kids asap. She was a fine example of many such women I've dated who'd continuously virtue-signaling their "traditionalism" and assume the role of confessor, ready to correct your every move and piously boss you around. And since they want, say, 8 kids, they continuously check your net worth because they want their cake and eat it, too. Thanks, but no thanks.

Something snapped in me back then and I've pretty much lost interest ever since. I haven't looked back. I just don't think about women anymore and prefer to be apathetic (in a Stoic sense). I decided to direct my energy toward bigger issues, like straightening out my spiritual life and sorting out various professional and personal challenges which are far more important in both the short and the long term. And those things would also be beneficial to me if at some point I did want to get married. There is no point in beating yourself up for not being married, especially when you've tried all you could already. Marriage is good but it can be a burden just as much as celibacy. It's better to be single and at peace with God than to marry just for the sake of being married.

One final thought on this. I see a lot of people telling us that we should reach a point where we "deserve" a good wife. There is truth to that but it seems some are extrapolating this notion to the point where "sainthood" becomes a requirement for marriage. No, it is not! If Christian marriage is a sacrament and intended to offer a way to mutually help each other to become saints, then that means marriage is a means to sainthood. That means two sinners get together and neither of them really "deserve" each other. What matters is that they're well-disposed to each other and God.

Also, as I heard one pretty traditional Catholic priest once say, we shouldn't "over-spiritualize" the sacrament of marriage, i.e. idolizing it or reducing it to a mere spiritual arrangement. Why? Because it is also has a natural function that is just as honorable, i.e. procreation. Which means it's the average person's natural vocation, not a special appeal like the religious life. Even so, it's still a choice and nobody is required to. It would only be a sin to refrain from marriage for purely selfish reasons. Giving up on "women" (i.e. marriage/relationships) can be a virtue if done for the right reasons.
 
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Viktor Zeegelaar

Hummingbird
Orthodox Inquirer
Reading through some of the posts in here is quite sad. Probably decent men rejected by women in their own culture and men who seem to have perfectly decent wives but are not happy. I've been there. Never had a real girlfriend until I lived in Asia. My ex-wife made my life a living hell and then ditched me and my children. Still I would have stayed with her and hoped she would eventually change. I think we have to accept that no woman is perfect but neither are we. To be honest I can't imagine why someone would want me. The thought of growing old alone is very depressing and COVID has made this more complicated. Realistically, what can a mid-40s western man who is not particularly wealthy expect in the way of a spouse? A women in her mid to late 30s? What are some serious dating avenues (for someone who wants to be a Christian not looking for casual sex)?
In the West men have been raised with the idea that life is easy and the end goal is happiness. This is not reality obviously and a way to make you have a severe crash later in life, which many don't come back from. Nowhere this is more obvious than in male/female relationships. The core in any relationship to work is for the man to be a man, and for the woman to be a woman. For the man this means being dominant, the leader, capable, providing safety, being responsible, solving problems, for the woman this means respecting the man, take care of the house and the children. That's the only way women truly will be happy, as this is the role they were meant to play from the beginning, however many men can't live up to the expectations from the woman which I described and which are presuppositional to a woman respecting a man. And without respect there can't be a relationship, it'll fail sooner or later. So if we understand this reality we can navigate ourselves in a relationship, set the right boundaries and not dwell in illusory ideas about a perfect woman.
These are good points, but the culture has created expectations within women that then, as a result, we men have to deal with. This is the harder part of it all, because typically we have the most to lose, and have to gauge what we actually gain with all of the headaches involved.
Yup, the culture has told women to do anything that possibly can be done contrary to her feminine nature and women, women as they are, of course follow what society says as there is no more dominant frame in the environment, such as her father's, who has been socially conditioned as well.
I don't know if this has been touched upon already so I wanted to gauge others thoughts. For me personally I have not lost my desire for women or the want to have a wife and family but I have to admit that I have not actually felt excited about a women in a long time.

I'm not talking about sexual desire or the slight anxiety that you get before meeting a women for the first time but rather the motivated mood and exhilaration you get when you start to date a girl. It just seems to me that every woman I go out and converse with has some type of massive flaw right out of the gate.

I don't think I'm unreasonable with my standards but if anyone wants to chime in please do. My standards are what follows:

1) Believes in God - not necessarily even religious because that can be worked on but just actually believing in a God. It's insane how many young women are atheists/agnostics.

2) Isn't political - Not being liberal is a given but being a opinionated about politics on either end of the spectrum gets tiresome.

3) I'm attracted to them - includes no tattoos or unusual piercings and normal colored hair and not obese. I can work with a chick who's got an extra 10-15 pounds but it seems like most have an extra 50-60.

4) Doesn't have a mental illness or annoying personality - by annoying personality I mean is obnoxious or has a sarcastic personality that so many girls love these days.

5) Lastly, doesn't have a body count that would put a victorian era hooker to shame - I'm realistic and know the vast majority of girls would have had sex with another man before meeting me. I only ask that if her notch count was dollars that it would only be enough to buy me a cup of coffee and not a steak dinner.

That's it and it doesn't seem unreasonable to me but I've been wrong before. All of those things listed would still leave 90%+ of the available women from the dawn of man to the 2000s but it seems in modern times thats shrunk to 1/3 or maybe 1/4. Not having those 5 points met consistently over time has caused me to loose my excitement and motivation in finding a wife.

Maybe I'm just black pilled now but I still haven't given up on women. Giving up on anything you want is weak and cowardly but if you genuinely don't want a wife or family then that doesn't apply to you and I say Godspeed.
Think about it, until 100 yeas ago back to thousands of years prior, from the dawn of human existence, the points you make would be available in literally every woman available for marriage. We live in the worst time of history for serious relationships let alone marriage, with a secular woman it must be near to impossible.
Reading through some of the posts, there are two things I strongly disagree with here.

First, blaming the current state of affairs on "men" as opposed to "women" is ridiculous and sounds a lot like gaslighting to me. Half the world already hates any sort of conservative heterosexual men for being evil colonialist racist homophobic and misogynistic pigs, and now some would guilt-shame us as feminism's enablers, too? If anything is to be considered "black pill", it would be this nonsensical blame game.
It's a combination. Eventually the core blame is on the devil, who made all the social conditioning drip through in society especially from the 60s onwards. Women as I've said before just follow the strongest frame, and men have lost that frame. What factually men are to be blamed of is exactly that: whatever way we look at it, our grandfathers let our fathers/mothers go severely off track, while they knew from their religious background were tricks of the devil. So there is a responsibility there, although of course I agree with you that men are under very intense social conditioning too. When you want to control a society the first thing you do is control the warrior class, the men. In the past they were just killed, all men between a certain age, now they are demobilized to slaves who pay their taxes, don't get respected by their wife and children, live a miserable life. The effect is the same, only now the slave men are not only harmless but also work like slaves and are a source of tax resources. The working ant.
 

Wasp

Pigeon
Protestant
There is no way I'd be together with the vast, vast majority of Western women these days. Barring small enclaves like true conservative Christians, or other traditionalist minded groups that are increasingly few and far between, you'd have to be crazy to get together with a Western woman. Most women today in the US and similar countries are extremely loud, dress mostly like men, foul mouthed, vulgar, fat and tatted. I have no interest in that. The last time I've seen women I really like are on films before the 90s. I do not watch tv, do not listen to the radio, and do not allow other contaminating influences/channels to get into my life.

I am extremely observant, and well traveled. When I look at many women today, I see them as very masculine in their attitudes, self-interested, and in exchange for nothing they ask for way too much, over and beyond what they are truly worth. Plus, most of them are on board with degenerate multiculturalism, mixing of religions (if they have any religion at all), and moral decay. Eastern European women are still salvageable, but they are quickly changing too.

There is also, undoubtedly, a victim mentality in most western countries today. People feel extremely entitled (men TOO!), especially white men. They think they should just automatically get a high paying job, have their own office, and I keep hearing stuff like "I can't have kids, because I wouldn't be able to afford things for them". What utter nonsense! Our ancestors did not give a damn about being wealthy enough to have children. Today? We want each child to have their own room, and the cycle of selfishness and entitlement is perpetuated. While it is absolutely important to be a provider father and not a deadbeat, there's a difference between that and being AUSTERE and saying "be content with what GOD gave you, and work more to a better prosperity". So, I am in no way defending being a deadbeat, but at the same time, SACRIFICES have to be made. I talk to lots of young people, and many white men won't even consider a low wage job, because you know..."I GOT COLLEGE!!" Well guess what Johnny? Your degree in some lit.humanities that nobody cares about is USELESS. I know plumbers and electricians who make way more than some of these self-styled "collegiates".

End of rant, but I think you guys get my point. I personally am single, only because I have zero interest in women that I believe are faithless, selfish and anti-Christian, pro-feminist. However, when and if I do find the right woman, we will not be held back by materialist considerations such as "my kids are entitled to a room for each!" No sir.
 

Stadtaffe

Kingfisher
Orthodox
Gold Member
In my insomnia last night brought on by an excessive dinner I found myself lurking around this thread. As mentioned previously I try to stay away... :

I normally keep away from this thread as the title is too black pilled, as well as most of the content. I gave up on the anglosphere but definitely not on women from continental Europe. Not yet at least. Just can't see what is so terrible about them. Yes most of them are at least slightly affected by the social programming of our times, and some of them are a write-off.
The title of this thread is a problem, I agree with this:
Giving up on women is giving up on life its self. A place many of us find ourselves in.
...so basically the title of this thread says to me, lets all sit around and learn how to properly run a hose from the muffler into the cabin. Or lets all sit under a tree and practice tying knots in rope. It's just not right.

Apart from the title, the content is wrong in various ways, but none the less funny to read:
Face the facts - you got your wife at 19(aka the dream of the large majority of men) and she gave you 20 years of her life and 2 kids and by the sound of it not a significant amount of drama for those 20 years and you say she is still mountable. Congratulations you won at life basically.

If this is winning in life I don't want to know what losing looks like. Visiting mother-in-law sitting at the breakfast table burping incessantly due to a stomach virus she got from the 4 year old, 41 year old wife chattering non-stop to her about child illnesses.

If you're trying to sell me paradise, I can assure you this is not it. Having a wife and children is not the dream it is made out to be.
I also watch a mother in law doing ... out of respect won't say what. I know where MorganAlpha is coming from but wouldn't word it that way myself, rather keep respect for the family. It's no use living year in year out with regret about which women you should have been getting with, and resentment towards the mothers of our children. If that's the way you tick, it would be better for all concerned as others have suggested if you made sure to get your needs satisfied elsewhere.

That last sentence "Having a wife and children is not the dream it is made out to be." really does sound like leading people away from the the chance of a pure path. As a teenage boy, I really had a clean idea of how it would all work nicely for me, a certain plan I had where by my mid to late twenties I'd be stably marrying into a certain kind of family and having at least three children. Then one thing after another after another after another went wrong. Poisoned by 1960s baby boomer forceful teachings and now later in life it hasn't gone that badly for me, but certainly not to plan and could have been better. Having a wife and children" is often not a dream these days because so much of our culture and male-female relations have been poisoned, and some of us just have to do the best we can with ourselves and our partners who have both been influenced and damaged by clown world.

But maybe there are some readers on the forum who are at a more pure stage of life, more pure themselves, without baby boomers around to warp them who may be able to find similar Christian pure souls. Would rather not ruin it for them. It might even be my lot second time around if I'm lucky.

"If this is winning in life I don't want to know what losing looks like. " - obviously losing is living half your life in pain after a car accident or having one of your children born with a problem. No good to be unthankful to this degree but that sentiment comes from doing what is expected of one by wife and society for too many years instead of what you truly want to do.
In essence, yes, I really don't want to blow up my marriage. I'm just telling guys on here who are dreaming of a wife and children, if you get it, even if she is attractive, the kids are beautiful, this is no happiness guarantee. You've not made it. Life goes on.
A very secular non-spiritual attitude.. Just not quite right.
Coming here and complaining non-stop
Moaning like a drain, squealing like a stuck pig, whining like a ______ ?
At least you have a little something. I got red-pilled a long time ago but I have the triple-whammy of short, ugly and poor. Anyone I would want can do better than me. I'm mid-50's now and don't have a pot to pee in or a window to throw it out of.

I hope I can keep away from this thread and wish it had another title.

There is a similar thread here :


How many more "Anyone miserable about x?" threads do we need? It's quite sick to see this kind of thing every time popping up in the headings..
 

ph80

Pigeon
Orthodox
I think it's impossible to find a good woman in today's world. Future generations might be able to, after we suffer great hardships and war, but not now.
 

DanielH

Ostrich
Orthodox
I think it's impossible to find a good woman in today's world. Future generations might be able to, after we suffer great hardships and war, but not now.
The behavior of women as our spouses, and the behavior of women throughout society, are simply reflections of the spiritual state of men on the individual level and on the macro level, respectively. It seems impossible to find a good woman, and perhaps it is, as no man is good except God alone (Mark 10:18). This doesn't mean it's impossible to find a woman at a comparable spiritual state as ourselves, that in fact is almost inevitable unless we choose chastity, and it doesn't necessarily require a complete collapse of society or devastating hardships. Even the degenerate, idolatrous city of Nineveh repented and was spared that outcome.
 

The Beast1

Peacock
Orthodox Inquirer
Gold Member
1) Intimidated incel.
2) Creepy pig.
3) Metoo rapist.
4) Boring beta.
5) Sexist patriarch.

Modern women are no joke.
There's a fine line between being a hateful sexist and a realist or as I like to call it, a chivalrous sexist.
Women deep down really want number 5 whether they admit it or not.
 
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