Get a good vocational or academic education, preferably in a technical field where you use both your hands and your mind. Then work hard and get really good at what you do. That is biblical and a good foundation for life. Everybody respects a person who is a professional, and you will always have enough money. If you want to marry, do it before you are 30. After that, interaction with the opposite sex becomes difficult and unnatural, and most of the good women are already married by then. I know.
Have any of you given up on women?
- Thread starter Chains of Peter
- Start date
La Águila Negra
Pelican
Some real talk. Thank you for that.
I call BS on this. This guy is just another variant of the playa. His main shtick is proving to others how hot he is, how women pursue him, and how he can select or drop them at will. He is the cock of the roost. What is the actual difference between the attitude displayed above and the arrogance and hard-heartedness of the playa?
NoMoreTO
Ostrich
You call BS?
The difference is he isn't seeking to fornicate and use the women, he is considering their quality as a wife. People who aren't sleeping around and dating around usually don't need to prove how "hot they are".
third_eldest
Sparrow
The doctrine of ordinary means answers this question. God gives us ordinary means as a way to develop character. Sure, I could get a miracle grade on my finals, but if I didn't study and haven't mastered the subject, will I? Of course not. God placed the tools for a good grade right in front of me and I opted for who knows what else instead of prioritizing my calling as a student at that time. I rejected the tools God gave me and got upset when things didn't go the way I want.
Good post up here. The doctrine of ordinary means applies to the world of relationships as well. God makes men to pursue and then men get upset when nothing happens after no pursuit. It's not worldly to pursue a woman you find worth your time. It only becomes a problem when she herself becomes an idol or if its very clear she isn't for you. So what? She isn't your wife. Move on and find another.
Good advice. Thankfully I'm already on track to graduate this spring with my bachelor's in mechanical engineering. My mindset on relationships has changed quite drastically in the last few months, God's helped me flip the script. I stopped being, pardon my language, a little bitch when it comes to dating and just starting going out and doing things. I'm no longer fear rejection. I ask for numbers, I attend several weekly college and career worship sessions and bible studies, and I move on quickly if she doesn't fit the four C's (Christian, Cute, Competent, Caucasian). I've now learned that nice young women still exist. You can have good conversations with women. They aren't perfect, as am I, but most women just need a good leader, which I will be because I can and will.
If you are in your 30's, I know several people who got married at that time. The way they did it was going to seminary, and meeting a girl there. I know this sounds wack but many women who struggled to meet a man when they were younger but still care about quality will go to seminary and find a man there.
OK, hear it from someone in your boat. Yes, you're an introvert, but every introvert I know doesn't like loneliness. You can do more than just a career and financial life. Life's more than the bread, and you can do both, because most people do quite responsibly. You can even become a knockout while you're at it!
"Guys, women in the 18-21 range can be really childish" Hold up guys I think we found a genius here. Of course man. They are just out of high school. Maybe you haven't considered the ways you are childish? You play video games or are obsessed with the Marvel Cinematic Universe? Sorry, but video games are for childish losers. Marvel's for kids.
Look, I know the whole women can be such a hassle shenanigan. I still ascribe to it to some degree. But in all honesty, there's an easy way to make interactions with women fun and interesting, and that's to not be a loser.
Some real quick tips I've found improve your ability to make interacting with women fun:
- Just consume some media that's good that women are also likely to enjoy so you have something to talk about.
- Watch Pride and Prejudice, the 2005 version with Kiera Nightly. Most good women like that movie. It's also really good.
- Don't be fat.
- Actually go to a gym and get good at lifting weights.
- Have arms. Real ones, not those stick things I see boys carrying around now. Flobby ones don't count either.
- Have a chest. Man breasts don't count, that's disgusting.
- Either go full beard or get clean cut. If you can't get a thick beard which obscures the skin below it opt for clean cut.
- Wear fitted clothes. Not skin tight though, that's for women.
- Get some good clothing accessories. Leather jacket's a good start.
- Drop video games.
- Uninstall social media. Just because a lot of women are glued to your phones doesn't mean you have to be.
- Find hobbies that make you interesting. Video games do not count.
- Save the nerd talk for the guys.
- Save the jew talk for the guys.
- If you're gonna talk deep stuff, keep the analysis surface level. Mainly expose current system's flaws.
- Do not talk about freaking Machiavelli or Jordan Peterson or any similar nerd shit in front of women. (Saw this happen)
Look, anything worth doing is going to have struggle. A good woman is worth looking for, struggling for, shooting shots and missing for.
Saying "It will make me uncomfortable for a period of time so instead of pushing through for something as rewarding as a lasting marriage I'm just going to (((enjoy my own company))) like a loser."
Be a winner and do something about it.
Ive haven't given up on women. As a black man in America it seems I can only attract single mothers from other races and black women.Positioning our interactions and vetting these women for long-term relationship material makes me want to though. Black women are quite masculine and single mothers see me as a resource. I just focus on my finances and fitness now, I plan to marry a women from Africa, Asia or Eastern Europe.
third_eldest
Sparrow
Bro rip. What about church? So many young black Christian women are craving for biblical manhood in their lives.
It is sometimes wise to provide a man with a few hours of fraudulent hope so that when night comes he will have a more perfect inward vision of the truth of his hopelessness.
Lastmohican
Chicken
As I’ve said before, I’ve given up on women. It’s pretty easy these days to run one off too. Just be a “COVID denier” If you question the orthodoxy you’ll get an amusing reaction from a female NPC. More than half the time you’ll never have to hear from her again. Works like a charm.
The 1 Duke
Pigeon
In my experience x2 Do not bring the women to N. America. Move to their country, but there are no guarantees.
The 1 Duke
Pigeon
He just does not have many choices worthy of you, maybe?
I see many of the posters are looking for a perfect match. As a married man, I assure you that none exists. You must be prepared to accept her, warts & all. Even as Christians, you & her won't agree on everything. It is her nature to challenge you, so you must learn patience & firmness. My marriage has taught me a lot of patience and that I can change my perspective on certain things. Before her, I was like many of you....walking around with pride in one hand and a Bible in the other. Nobody wants to be in a situation where they feel smothered and their opinion doesn't count.
For me, marriage is not easy. But the juice is definitely worth the squeeze. Despite our cultural differences, I have a devoted wife who cares for my needs, in sickness and health. Actually I'm writing this while suffering a bad sunburn. My wife is dutifully caring my pain and comforting me with breakfast and lunch. I could be a hard-nose and tell her that she must believe this or that.....but I prefer a contented wife.
For me, marriage is not easy. But the juice is definitely worth the squeeze. Despite our cultural differences, I have a devoted wife who cares for my needs, in sickness and health. Actually I'm writing this while suffering a bad sunburn. My wife is dutifully caring my pain and comforting me with breakfast and lunch. I could be a hard-nose and tell her that she must believe this or that.....but I prefer a contented wife.
I disagree that people's problem is "too high of standard". I think this misses the crux of the issue. Most men here find a specific kind of woman attractive. It essentially amounts to a feminine, submissive (to their husband not to the State or wokeism) woman whose identity as a person and life purpose places men and family above education, career and/or independence from men and their economic value. You could summarize this to most men here want a traditional woman.
When it comes to these traits, most men will budge to an extent but what they want to avoid is a woman who sees relationships as transactional and thus they must always be getting equal value back that they put in like a business partnership at all times or they quit, women who attempt to jostle for power in the relationship, women who place the importance of their economic value as above the importance of the relationship, women who refuse to show emotional vulnerability to men due to how that impacts the power dynamic in the relationship.
When it comes to physical standards, most men simply want a woman who kind of at least makes an effort on her weight such that she's not fat, she at least tries to look feminine/beauty and hasn't rejecting femininity/beauty as being oppressive against women and that she doesn't have terrible face defects. Most men's standards are not that high when it comes to looks.
Now if you want to say all of the above is "too high of a standard" then you would be right but most men here understand that if you don't have a woman as described above, your relationship will never work out long-term or make you happy. It defeats the entire purpose of the relationship in the first place. The real issue in modern society isn't that men's standards are too high, it's that women have been programmed in a manner that changes their personality, behavior and look such that the women are of much lower quality overall to men. I would argue it's not men that need to lower their standard but women who need to improve themselves because men's standards aren't truly high, it's just women have become something most men don't like.
Very few people here actually want to tell their wives they must believe X, they actually simply want exactly what you have. A wife who loves them and will look after them "in sickness and health", bringing them a nice cooked meal and being affectionate. Unfortunately, this is actually not the norm at all with modern women. Your wife is a different culture and bro, that's likely why your way is the way she is because outside of western culture women are more likely to be traditional. Western culture has entirely changed women into something men simply don't want to be with.
infowarrior1
Hummingbird
What do you mean by that? Believe what?
Don't worry, I'm 39 and I still have no idea what on earth I'm supposed to do.
p.s. Just kidding, I want to be a monk. I just don't have the balls to actually do it.
Yes, but this applies to the times before the Incarnation.
Don't cherry pick the Holy Scriptures.
You're not wrong but you're also overly simplifying the complexities of the situation men are in today.
You're right about blaming women. Men should stop doing this. The circumstances we're in today are not women's fault. Who gave women the right to vote? Men did. Who let women into the workforce? Men did. Pick whatever issue you have with society and behind it is a man being responsible for it ultimately.
The complexity comes into play when you must factor in the State. A State is essentially a group of people who enforce rules on others. The current rules today are ultimately one of the underlying causes of the relationships struggles between men and women in society today. Unfortunately, expecting men to be able to band together to solve the State problems in a universal suffrage democracy is like expecting pigs to fly. The nature of our government system is one in which it is structurally designed to lead to a worse and worse situation for men over time. You can try telling men to band together and do XYZ all you want and you would be right but you'll never get enough people to follow you, ever, because the structures in place don't allow for enough men+women to recognize the problems you suggest then agree on the actual solutions to these problems. When you truly understand the pressures in place that lead to specific outcomes and how to correct for them you'll realize the only actual solution is some sort of outside environmental factor that disrupts things. A war where people's actual lives in their hometown were at stake for example. Barring this, you'll likely never develop the circumstances needed for change. The degradation in our society surrounding women and relationships is nothing new. Even the Romans struggled with similar circumstances to what we have today during their decline. It's a natural cycle of societies that get too wealthy and secure. We're essentially now a society of spoiled children that care only for their own selfishness with superficial purposes in life who lack a sense of duty and care toward actually improving society as a whole.
On an individual level, you can tell men to lead all you want but you have the whole system working against men on an individual level. The State continues to stifle individuality and individual freedom and pushes a collective moral and political ideology on men that is actually wholly counter to men. Women now expect men to submit to this collective ideology no different than traditional women once expected their husband to submit to God. The men who submit to the system are submitting a system that disadvantages men so men can never get what they desire. The men who don't submit are not desired by women and rejected because women desire men who submit to this ideology. Thus men going their own way and leading is extremely difficult. There are still women who respect traditional men but they are few. Also, girls in their 18-26 years range have nature working to the advantages of men such that women easily attach to men and form bonds but then outside of these years, relationships can struggle. There are men capable of rising above all these pressures in a manner women do follow but these men are extremely exceptional and few and far between. 99% of men will never be this man no matter how hard they try and women won't appreciate the effort men make toward trying to be this man.
In conclusion, you are right that men must lead and stop blaming women but no amount of telling men to band together and lead will actually result in a scenario where men take back control of society and shape it in a manner in which is beneficial to men and society as a whole. The State is shaped such that men are prevented from doing so. The structural pressures in place create an outcome in which you'll never get enough men to be able to band together to accomplish the outcome you seek. This is why many men, after having seen the prison for what it is, simply decide to give up playing the game of escape the prison aka MGTOW for example. If this situation feels hopeless and you don't like a hopeless situation, I hate to be the one to tell you but the situation is mostly hopeless barring some unexpected event. No individual man will be able to change the system and we're all just moving along a path due to the large-scale pressures at play, none of which you truly have any control over. Why do you think so many men on here are obsessed with escaping the country? It's not because it's easy... leaving your home is pretty hard. It's because there truly isn't any option to fix things in our lifetime, barring some unexpected event. Saying men should lead is nice and all but it totally underscores the lack of power men truly have at the moment in society and underscores the lack of strength that the structural pressures in society have toward creating an outcome which men are incapable of influencing no matter how much they try to lead.
Women follow to an extent and the younger they are the more they follow individual men but the State and its collective ideology has more power than most individual men do. We've entered a point where women submit to the State more than they submit to men and they expect the men they want to be with to submit to the State as well; however, this State's existence is wholly in opposition to most men's individuality and thus it's a contradiction for any man who is a leader to submit to this State thus essentially leading to a no-win scenario for most men. Only a very small select group of men can lead and not submit to the State while getting women to follow them and guess what, that's exactly what everyone here wants but is unable to attain because no one here is among that small select group of men capable of attaining this. This means most men here have to submit to the state or stay alone and the former is about as unhappy as the latter; hence, no-win scenario.
Jive Turkey
Sparrow
^ I agree with pretty much everything you wrote except for the last few sentences that no one among us can achieve the traditional relationship. I mean, in a sense you are right, no one here can do it alone, but God works in people's hearts and he can make it possible. That being said, it will probably be a small minority of us who achieve this, but it is possible.
TLDR: Do not ever give up! That is what tractors want to achieve! The strategy is same as ever: you have to become the best version you can and do whatever you can to become a godly family father! (Except if you are a monk.)
I would not recommend anyone to give up on women. (The only exception are the people who want to be monks.) When they say that a man should seek God and not seek woman I think they mean that seeking God is seeking a normal religious life. Normal religious life is to live all the necessary stages of life and marriage and having children is part of that. The difference is that you do not seek a woman for sinful pleasure but you seek a woman to have a sacred marriage.
Seeking a woman to become your wife is not against God's will and establishing a marriage is what God wants us to do. There is nothing sinful in actively doing things to achieve that. The only thing you must not do is to become desperate or to place women over God.
You should never give up and never loose your hope. In Hungarian we say "you should help yourself and then God will also help you." This means that if you do everything to achieve what you want to achieve then you can count on being helped by God. (Certainly only if your goal is good.) But if you do not do what you have to do, then you should not count on being helped. You first have to do your job what you can and only then will help arrive.
With corona it is obvious that it was part of the goal of our enemies to make forming marriages even harder than before. But having a hard task should not make you be hopeless but make you to do work even harder. Do not accept being defeated.
If you are not ready yourself for marriage then you should not seek a wife. That is true. Then you have to concentrate on becoming ready. If I understand correctly this is what Roosh is doing right now. But if you feel ready yourself then you must actively seek a wife.
If I was single I would do my best to seek occasions to meet women even under lockdown. Use all your human contacts to organize occasions if possible. (I remember being single and those times it was very hard to meet women in these circles. But I also remember that I have tried that I have even asked my friends to introduce women if they can. Maybe I was blatant and looked stupid but at least I have tried it.) I think it is also a good idea to move to remote areas out of big cities - which is a good idea anyway. If you can move to a place where people are still having human contact then do it!
It is very hard to have occasions to meet women and you have to accept that. But you can only accept that if you do all that is possible on your part to circumvent the lockdown measures. Going to public places is still possible and you can start conversations with people there. You have to grab every occasion you have. The other clever Hungarian proverb is: "You have to cook from what you have". If you have circumstances that you can not change then you must do your best within your possibilites.
I think that single women have similar problems and the few that are worth to become wives also seek to find occasions to meet men. Those few did not magically vanish they exist somewhere.
You also have to concentrate on improving yourself while in lockdown. Become the best prospect you can for becoming a family father. Then God will help you finding your wife.
I would not recommend anyone to give up on women. (The only exception are the people who want to be monks.) When they say that a man should seek God and not seek woman I think they mean that seeking God is seeking a normal religious life. Normal religious life is to live all the necessary stages of life and marriage and having children is part of that. The difference is that you do not seek a woman for sinful pleasure but you seek a woman to have a sacred marriage.
Seeking a woman to become your wife is not against God's will and establishing a marriage is what God wants us to do. There is nothing sinful in actively doing things to achieve that. The only thing you must not do is to become desperate or to place women over God.
You should never give up and never loose your hope. In Hungarian we say "you should help yourself and then God will also help you." This means that if you do everything to achieve what you want to achieve then you can count on being helped by God. (Certainly only if your goal is good.) But if you do not do what you have to do, then you should not count on being helped. You first have to do your job what you can and only then will help arrive.
With corona it is obvious that it was part of the goal of our enemies to make forming marriages even harder than before. But having a hard task should not make you be hopeless but make you to do work even harder. Do not accept being defeated.
If you are not ready yourself for marriage then you should not seek a wife. That is true. Then you have to concentrate on becoming ready. If I understand correctly this is what Roosh is doing right now. But if you feel ready yourself then you must actively seek a wife.
If I was single I would do my best to seek occasions to meet women even under lockdown. Use all your human contacts to organize occasions if possible. (I remember being single and those times it was very hard to meet women in these circles. But I also remember that I have tried that I have even asked my friends to introduce women if they can. Maybe I was blatant and looked stupid but at least I have tried it.) I think it is also a good idea to move to remote areas out of big cities - which is a good idea anyway. If you can move to a place where people are still having human contact then do it!
It is very hard to have occasions to meet women and you have to accept that. But you can only accept that if you do all that is possible on your part to circumvent the lockdown measures. Going to public places is still possible and you can start conversations with people there. You have to grab every occasion you have. The other clever Hungarian proverb is: "You have to cook from what you have". If you have circumstances that you can not change then you must do your best within your possibilites.
I think that single women have similar problems and the few that are worth to become wives also seek to find occasions to meet men. Those few did not magically vanish they exist somewhere.
You also have to concentrate on improving yourself while in lockdown. Become the best prospect you can for becoming a family father. Then God will help you finding your wife.
SpyofMoses
Sparrow
One thing I've noticed is that there are more men than women in the Millennial generation. Between 1991 and 2001, there was an average of ~80,000 more boys born than girls in the US every single year. If you're a young man who feels like you live in a sausage fest it's because you probably do. https://www.infoplease.com/us/population/births-sex-and-sex-ratio
I haven't given up on women yet, but I agree with you guys that dating in the modern world is discouraging. Personally, I'm the type that "burns with passion," so I'm doing what I can to become a good father if and when I can make that happen. I also have made my share of mistakes in the past, so while I don't want to set myself up for divorce or cuckoldry, I won't hold out for a virgin.
I haven't given up on women yet, but I agree with you guys that dating in the modern world is discouraging. Personally, I'm the type that "burns with passion," so I'm doing what I can to become a good father if and when I can make that happen. I also have made my share of mistakes in the past, so while I don't want to set myself up for divorce or cuckoldry, I won't hold out for a virgin.