Having Children Young

JiggyLordJr

Kingfisher
With the whole CV thing going on, I've been doing some deep thinking. When one becomes aware of their mortality, unfulfilled wishes tend to bubble to the surface. But none more pertinent than that of my dear lizard brain: "WHERE ARE YOUR OFFSPRING? WHAT SEEDS HAVE YOU SPREAD?" If I was older, this would make sense. But I'm not. Let me explain...

Within a month I'll be 23. I'm looking to start a family soon. Real soon. As in, before 30, but ideally 25. These are the obstacles currently standing in my way:

- Still in my final year of uni, full-time study, 6 days a week
- Working part-time internship, decent pay, no benefits
- Living with parents, no extra space for new wife + kids
- Lack of young, family-minded women in my area (NYC)

The first three will clear up in time as I graduate, start full-time work, and get my own place. The last one troubles me a bit...

When expressing my desire to start a family young, I get crazy looks. Even decently conservative women tend to raise an eyebrow. They themselves want kids early, but don't hold me to the same standard. A man having children in his 30s is the norm these days. But in your 20s? I've had people literally laugh at this suggestion. Yes, anti-young-father sentiment actually exists.

The age range across this forum is wide; I've seen zoomers and boomers and everything in between. But the one thing we all share in common is that we're men. And men create families. But these days, unless you're loaded or otherwise set-up, it's difficult to do so early. Of course, there's no shortage of early-20s baby-daddies in the hood, but I'm looking to give my kid a high-quality, traditional American upbringing. Think boating, hunting, prep schools, backyard BBQs, and so on. Which brings me to the ultimate question:

How does one have children young (25-30) and give them a good quality-of-life?

Would love to hear suggestions from aspiring fathers, actual fathers, or otherwise. Cheers.
 

Papaya

Crow
Gold Member
At your age Id strongly recommend starting a business.

While it may seem unrelated the fact is that unless you are in one of the few high earned income fields it will be very difficult to have a "job" that supports a family on a single income (assuming you want a traditional stay at home mother)

But starting and growing a successful business isn't easy either.


Everything sucks, some of the time.

No one in this age of instant gratification wants to accept that...but there it is

So choose your "shit sandwich" wisely

Again...Everything sucks, some of the time.

Now, that probably sounds incredibly pessimistic. But I actually think this is a liberating idea.

Everything involves sacrifice. Everything includes some sort of cost. Nothing is pleasurable or uplifting all of the time. So, the question becomes: what struggle or sacrifice are you willing to tolerate? Ultimately, what determines our ability to stick with something we care about is our ability to handle the rough patches and ride out the inevitable rotten days.

If you want to be a brilliant tech entrepreneur, but you can’t handle failure, then you’re not going to make it far. If you want to be a professional artist, but you aren’t willing to see your work rejected hundreds, if not thousands of times, then you’re done before you start. If you want to be a hotshot court lawyer, but can’t stand the 80-hour workweeks, then I’ve got bad news for you.

Finding your life purpose involves eating a shit sandwich or two. What unpleasant experiences are you able to handle? Are you able to stay up all night coding? Are you able to have people laugh you off the stage over and over again until you get it right?

What shit sandwich do you want to eat? Because we all get served one eventually.

And your favorite shit sandwich is your competitive advantage. By definition, anything that you’re willing to do (that you enjoy doing) that most people are not willing to do gives you a huge leg-up.

So, find your favorite shit sandwich. And you might as well pick one with an olive.

The good news is that that while its not easy in some ways starting a business has never been easier.

That computer screen youre looking at is, if applied correctly, the most powerful tool ever afforded a motivated young man wanting to take control of his own destiny.
 

kel

Pelican
You didn't say what you're studying. Your best hope is being able to work remotely in a high-paid position like software. You can earn a NYC/SF salary, but live out somewhere cheaper and nicer and green, and you'll be able to give your kids the very present fatherly influence they need.

You might have to put a few years in, first, though. Get some stuff on your resume, make a name for yourself, climb the ladder, stockpile cash so you can buy a place.
 

Laner

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Don't worry about giving them a 'good quality of life'. Kids don't care, and most have no idea they are poor until they are well into puberty. And by poor, I don't mean street poor. Most of the friends who have put off kids because of money are far from poor, but they see kids as something they will have to flaunt.

I was an adult the first time I found out how poor we were when I was a kid. My parents had men when I was 20 and struggled like hell to get where they are. And even though I have so many amazing memories of being little, none of them have anything to do with money.

We used to spend the summers at my grandparents farm and it was the best thing in the world to us cousins. Only in later years did we get told that it was because our parents got some food relief and extra time to work if they shipped us off.

For the record, I had my son at 35 so I am far from a young parent. But nearly all my rural family had kids in their early 20s. I live in a big city, and if I think back to the girls I was with in my early 20s, there are still a few that I am sure would have made great wives and mothers. As most mention here, a lot of it hinges on YOU being the one to guide her sensibility and morals, not media.
 
This is something that I have been wondering about as well.

I'm almost 25. For the past couple years, my desire to find a good wife and start a family has grown increasingly stronger. I have an decent-paying job and a house, but I do wonder where I'll find a family-oriented woman. Aside from a religious girl that attends a serious church, I don't see too many options.

Honestly, I've been putting off dating/courting because I have a dream that I want to turn into an online business. I would like to make a living solely from that, but it will take a lot of time and dedication.

I feel like searching for a woman and having a family would take too much time away from what little time I have right now, and I would just get stuck working at my job like 99% of people do.

I would be happy having a loving family, but I wouldn't be happy working a mindless job until I'm 65 or 70.

Plus, I want to be an example to my future children and show them that they don't have to get a normal job like everyone else (unless they want to). They can create a business doing what they love.

If I remember correctly, back when Nickolas (formerly Victor Pride) of Bold and Determined described how he started his first business, he stated that he quit his job and spent a year (I think?) working day and night creating the business. He didn't hang out with friends, have sex, date, play video games, or anything unnecessary like that for the entire time.

That really inspired me to start working on my business now instead of putting it off, as I realized what it took to really succeed.

As PapayaTapper suggested, this is the prime time for us to start an online business (in our 20's). And once you've got one going, it's usually easier to make more money by scaling it up instead of asking for a raise.

As for meeting a family-oriented woman in America... I'm having trouble with that too. I get turned off just by seeing a girl wearing yoga pants, but maybe I'm being too strict with my choices. Seems like they all wear that these days.

NYC definitely seems like a bad place to find a good woman (didn't like the vibes when I traveled through there). Perhaps you could relocate to a more conservative location once you finish your degree?

If there are family-oriented young men like us still left in America, I'm sure there must be some family-oriented women as well. But where?
 

Papaya

Crow
Gold Member
Laner said:
Don't worry about giving them a 'good quality of life'. Kids don't care, and most have no idea they are poor until they are well into puberty. And by poor, I don't mean street poor. Most of the friends who have put off kids because of money are far from poor, but they see kids as something they will have to flaunt.

I was an adult the first time I found out how poor we were when I was a kid. My parents had men when I was 20 and struggled like hell to get where they are. And even though I have so many amazing memories of being little, none of them have anything to do with money.

We used to spend the summers at my grandparents farm and it was the best thing in the world to us cousins. Only in later years did we get told that it was because our parents got some food relief and extra time to work if they shipped us off.

For the record, I had my son at 35 so I am far from a young parent. But nearly all my rural family had kids in their early 20s. I live in a big city, and if I think back to the girls I was with in my early 20s, there are still a few that I am sure would have made great wives and mothers. As most mention here, a lot of it hinges on YOU being the one to guide her sensibility and morals, not media.

^ Thats an excellent point. One way to waste a lot of time is to "wait for just the right time".

Its rarely ever "the perfect time" for anything in life
 

TheMost

Robin
bobmjilica said:
Church seems to be the best place to meet young family oriented women. Don’t go just for the women, but it’s an added benefit.

Your experience with church is not the norm. Most churches are giant cock-blockers festivals, and freezing men out of the marriage market is cock-blocking just as much as is protecting the young women from players.
 

Hell_Is_Like_Newark

Kingfisher
Gold Member
I am advising the opposite of many here:

I don't think men should get married or have kids until they reach their 30s and then marry a woman 5 to 15 years younger. This 'getting married in your early 20s' is an artifact from the Victorian era. During the Classical period, educated land owning Roman men got hitched in their 30s, using their teens and 20s to establish themselves mentally and financially. For the mental part... men don't fully mature until after age 25. The person you are at age 20 maybe different then at age 30. What you need in a woman maybe very different between the two age points. I have met plenty of people who married young and found out they couldn't stand each other 10 years later.

My parents got married young (in college) and had kids right away, plunging themselves into a state of poverty while my Dad worked his way through graduate school. I can tell you that it affected by brother and sisters profoundly in the most negative ways. My wife had similar negative experiences as she also grew up poor.

My advice: When young, focus your youth and energy on whatever economic opportunities present themselves. If you fail, you have plenty of time to recover (credit reports reset after 7 years). You can take risk and dedicate time fully to your venture, with only being responsible to yourself. A wife and kids will be a proverbial boat anchor at this time.

In my 20s, the opportunity I went after was real estate (which was dirt cheap at the time post the '89 to '97 real estate crash). What I lacked in income I made up by putting on a tool belt after work, working until the wee hours of the morning, and crashing on a mattress next to my tools. It was a brutal way to live, but it made me today a millionaire (asset wise.. not income) after the ghettos I bought into now have gentrified. I could not have done that if married and a big 'hell no' if I had a kid to support. I sure as hell couldn't do that now.

Having wealth makes managing a kid, wife, and the various crisis that will come up in your life much easier to handle...
 

Hell_Is_Like_Newark

Kingfisher
Gold Member
JiggyLordJr said:
- Lack of young, family-minded women in my area (NYC)


I live in the NYC metro area. Similar experience as you...

When I turned 30 I had enough frequent flyer miles and enough $$ saved to travel. Met my now wife on one of those trips. If you aren't finding what you need where you live...

Write to women in countries that you would like to visit.

When you get there, you will have a date, translator, tour guide that you already know you have something in common with.
 
Good comments. You’ll get a smaller set of questions once you answer some big questions: 1) what is your field of work; 2) is it realistic to be self-employed in that area; 3) what is your temperament (ex: extrovert vs. introvert); 4) how religious are you; 5) city vs rural living preference.

Overall, it sounds like you’re not independent enough to consider marriage now. Plus, the stress of a starting a new career plus a new wife and baby can lead to early divorce (women are much more sensitive in marriage to money issues—even if you’re Don Juan).

Make your mission, your mission (not a woman). Get your house in order first and a woman later. Women will always add complexity, burden & challenge to life; put differently, if weightlifting stresses & builds your physical system, women stress & build your emotional system (sh!t testing, etc...).

Yes, marriage is worth it; you just need adequate preparation before that lifelong commitment.
 
Hell_Is_Like_Newark said:
JiggyLordJr said:
- Lack of young, family-minded women in my area (NYC)


I live in the NYC metro area. Similar experience as you...

When I turned 30 I had enough frequent flyer miles and enough $$ saved to travel. Met my now wife on one of those trips. If you aren't finding what you need where you live...

Write to women in countries that you would like to visit.

When you get there, you will have a date, translator, tour guide that you already know you have something in common with.

Could you give us more information about how you did that and made it work out?
 

C-Note

Ostrich
Gold Member
Arranged marriages, in the countries that still do them, do seem to work out fairly well. The reason is because the marriage is more of a contract that both parties are aware of going in, and having children is usually understood as part of the deal. I'm not talking about "mail order bride" type arranged marriages, but the ones within a culture/country in which the families of both parties are involved.

The wife in an arranged marriage often will lose a lot of status and face if a divorce takes place. So, she has a great interest in seeing it through.

So, where you can find an arranged marriage? Japan and S. Korea still do them, but you would likely need to reside in the country and speak the language fairly well in order for it to be made available to you.
 

Hell_Is_Like_Newark

Kingfisher
Gold Member
TheBadGuy said:
Could you give us more information about how you did that and made it work out?


At the urging of a coworkers that did the same, I wrote to women in countries I was planning to visit, so I would have a date/tour guide/translator waiting for me.

I met my wife via Yahoo Messenger (long defunct). I liked her enough that I just kept going back to Thailand to meet her (women are wonderful when bereft of feminism). After four years of doing that we got married.

Been married over 15 years.
 

Hell_Is_Like_Newark

Kingfisher
Gold Member
C-Note said:
Arranged marriages, in the countries that still do them, do seem to work out fairly well.

The only arranged marriages I know of were Brahman cast Indians I have worked with over the years. The marriages seemed to work.. I never knew any of them to go through divorce (unlike other coworkers).
 

Laner

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Hell_Is_Like_Newark said:
C-Note said:
Arranged marriages, in the countries that still do them, do seem to work out fairly well.

The only arranged marriages I know of were Brahman cast Indians I have worked with over the years. The marriages seemed to work.. I never knew any of them to go through divorce (unlike other coworkers).

I know a few Japanese who were arranged marriages. One of my wife's best friends was set to arrangement but she fell in love with a Canadian in university and her parents allowed her to marry him. It is still fairly common in certain business and political tiers and the stability of it is astounding. Talking with one guy he said that no way in hell his dad would have arranged him with an ugly or crazy woman. So having a good father - on both the man and woman's side - is pretty key.

I told my son I was going to arrange his marriage. He seems cool with it.
 

kel

Pelican
It's a better way to look at marriage, tbh. You're being arranged into a unit that's part of your community and your two families continuum, and there are rights and responsibilities that come with that. It's a much better dynamic than what romance novels have set the world up for.
 
JiggyLordJr said:
Even decently conservative women tend to raise an eyebrow.

I would be very surprised if, living in NYC, you met decently conservative women.

JiggyLordJr said:
How does one have children young (25-30) and give them a good quality-of-life?

Laner's post is spot on.

My childhood was in a real conservative area down south. People married young, either right after college or right after highschool, and they made it work. The wife would bulk shop at Costco, the family would learn to live without weekly resturaunt meals the kids learned how to have fun without needing to spend every minute participating in some kind of organized activity, often they would be homeschooled, and the dad would earn money to provide for them.

I left right after highschool to go sinning and sightseeing, and when I go back my old friends are already married and having kids. And unfortunately the South is not always welcoming to outsiders, particularly from places like NYC, so it would be tough to just move down there and get in on the culture.

I should mention we were a small subset of the population; everyone else had normal people problems like, "My sole child who I had at age 37 has too many activities after school every day and our 3-person family never gets to eat Chipotle for dinner together. Also Ryan and are fighting so I kicked him out of bed. And we're drowning in credit card debt." Then ten years down the line, "My kid is on drugs and I don't know what to do, and the court lets him visit Ryan's house once a month, blahblahblah…"
 

Razgriz

Sparrow
My biggest reason for having kids early was because in part I wanted to grow up with them. My dad had a total of 6 and he was young enough that when I got to high school he still wrestled with me and did spartan type races and camped out with me. Had many friends growing up and many of their dads were to old to do that stuff. I think kids will be about as expensive and you want them to be. Yeah they need food and clothing and that adds up but they don’t all need iPads, tvs in their own room and a while separate play room.
 

AntoniusofEfa

Woodpecker
You are still a boy, and the average teen female has probably more game than you.

Attractive women at your age are looking for the fun guys. Artists, bikers, world travelers and whatnot. You give off a very serious vibe, which is something that women your age do not appreciate. If I were you, I would pretend I was an artist of some sorts, and never mentioned my boring yet stable life plans. The truth is, that the west does not allow a young man to raise a family in a single earner scenario. Get over it, and adjust to the current times.

You sound too serious for your age. And this is coming from an introverted Computer Engineering major.
 
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