Herbal Testosterone Boosting Thread

get2choppaaa

Hummingbird
Orthodox
Do you have any knowledge about fertility issues associated with long term TRT use? That's the main reason I'd be hesitant to do it permanently. I had done a few cycles a while back and with the last one I cruised for a few months after and even with cruising the difference in well-being, mood, energy, strength, fat loss was night and day. My levels naturally at 20 were around 700 and now at 26 they were around 550-600 for reference. But these were both tested with pretty optimized exercise, food, sleep, supplementation etc.. so I've got nowhere to go but down as the years go by.
I don't want to hijack, but I will make one point since I have some experience with this.

Short answer: Yes. It can negatively affect your Sperm count/motility ect. It can be mitigated, but in my opinion its really the biggest potential side effect of the drug, one that men often dont consider.

In your case, from the post at least....those ranges are fairly normal given the age group. Free Testosterone varies throughout a day/week ect... and dependent on when you test. That being said, a baseline is a good thing to get. People think that the base Test level is like 1000 -1200 but thats like peak/optimal and not really something you're going to stay at except during puberty and maybe your very early 20's.

I've had tests all over. I've come off for 3 or for weeks of TRT just to see what my levels were, I've had tests taking half the perscription, to see what it brought my levels to, and I've had tests well above the baseline when my doctor was trying to dial in my correct amount. Personally I cant tell the difference between being at 700 and 1200. But I can tell the difference in between 150 and 500. I can also tell the difference between 500 and 1500. But in my experience, the sleep/diet/lack of alcohol had a greater impact on my perception of how I felt than the testosterone level provided I was in a "theraputic" range of 500-800 (some argue 800 is the optimal range based off of studies) At 500-700 you have the hormonal substrate to facilitate body comp and energy ect....

That all being said I would discourage getting on a TRT regime from a doctor until you've already had kids as it can absolutely affect your fertility. At 26 its going to be hard to justify the potential damage that could do to your testicular function... and those numbers are in range so you'll likely have to go to a clinic and get ripped off.

Again, It's case by case dependent. Some men are on a lot of sauce and get people pregnant... Others are shut down after a short period of use.

There are other drugs a doctor will give to keep your fertility Iike add HCG (which mimicks LH and keeps your intra-testicular testosterone viable) I can only speak for myself: Had ZERO issues with my exwife conceiving. So I knew my plumbing worked. After I had my 2 boys, 3 years later I got TRT with an HCG protocol. After getting remarried my wife and I want to have a child. I had a sperm analysis.... I was fine. Probably lower than I would have been if I never were on TRT... but still 100% viable. I followed the HCG protocol exactly as prescribed since day 1 of it being prescribed and have it verified once a year to continue a baseline. In my case, I can continue the Trt regime with HCG and can still get the old lady pregnant. Some men have to come off Testosterone completely, give their testes some time to attempt to restart, and they add HCG/HMG + Clomid or other drugs to mimic both LH and FSH.

I happen to be very fortunate in going to the #1 Urologist in the country who literally wrote the book on male fertility. Any doctor who doesn't stress the seriousness of potential fertility issues is not who you want treating you.

It's a very serious consideration and one that shouldn't be minimized.... just because I didnt have any issues doesnt mean others wont.

Typically the fertility issues are based off of chronicity of use. This is also why abusers cycle on and off, to try and preserve some testicular function. But that's a foolish notion after you've been on for a while as once you go down that rabbithole... its pretty much a life long deal. IF you've been on trt for 10 years, no HCG, you'll likely have issues. But again case by case and you really need to have a doctor who knows what they are doing or atleast follows the Lipshultz protocol (which is the standard of 1500mg hcg a week to preserve fertility)
 

Optimus Princeps

Woodpecker
Orthodox Catechumen
@get2choppaaa
Right, I have heard HCG would help with maintaining fertility. The thing is I think fertility issues may not even be true as everyone will say it is a risk, but I always hear that men are able to have kids no issue like you did. I may get my levels tested a few more times to establish a more accurate baseline. I do suffer from low energy and brain fog sometimes but it's usually from lack of sleep and if I'm not eating very well.

In response to what helps naturally boost testosterone levels I'm sure most of this has already been said, but supplementation is secondary to lifestyle factors:
  • Sleep 8+ hours
  • Don't take sleeping pills or alcohol before bed
  • Get sun everyday and during winter use vitamin D
  • Eat a lot of red meat and saturated fat (Steak and eggs diet essentially, use butter and olive oil liberally)
  • Don't drink beer, it's highly estrogenic
  • Get to a low bf but not too low, 10-15% depending on your body
  • Lift heavy at least three times a week, not just pump and fluff work, HEAVY deads, squats, farmers carries
  • Sprints>Long distance running
  • Quit porn
Secondary Supplementation
  • DAA (this was hyped more a few years ago as it was shown in a study to increase testosterone levels by 70%, however this is likely short term and study I believe was done on hypogonadal men, might still be worth cycling on and off of)
  • Ashwagandha- Make sure to get standardized withanolides % extract. Reduces cortisol which lowers testosterone, great supplement.
  • Creatine- Increases DHT, strength, etc..
  • Mucuna Pruriens- Increases dopamine, surprisingly felt a difference when I took this, maybe I should get some more.
  • Tongkat Ali/Fadogia Agrestis- Andrew Huberman recommends, we've all heard it by now. Does it work? Possibly, it seems Tongkat works as a sort of SERM, possible bad side effects and tolerance building up after a while.
  • Good multivitamin- I like orange triad.
  • Zinc- increases test if you're deficient.
 

get2choppaaa

Hummingbird
Orthodox
@get2choppaaa
Right, I have heard HCG would help with maintaining fertility. The thing is I think fertility issues may not even be true as everyone will say it is a risk, but I always hear that men are able to have kids no issue like you did. I may get my levels tested a few more times to establish a more accurate baseline. I do suffer from low energy and brain fog sometimes but it's usually from lack of sleep and if I'm not eating very well.

In response to what helps naturally boost testosterone levels I'm sure most of this has already been said, but supplementation is secondary to lifestyle factors:
  • Sleep 8+ hours
  • Don't take sleeping pills or alcohol before bed
  • Get sun everyday and during winter use vitamin D
  • Eat a lot of red meat and saturated fat (Steak and eggs diet essentially, use butter and olive oil liberally)
  • Don't drink beer, it's highly estrogenic
  • Get to a low bf but not too low, 10-15% depending on your body
  • Lift heavy at least three times a week, not just pump and fluff work, HEAVY deads, squats, farmers carries
  • Sprints>Long distance running
  • Quit porn
Secondary Supplementation
  • DAA (this was hyped more a few years ago as it was shown in a study to increase testosterone levels by 70%, however this is likely short term and study I believe was done on hypogonadal men, might still be worth cycling on and off of)
  • Ashwagandha- Make sure to get standardized withanolides % extract. Reduces cortisol which lowers testosterone, great supplement.
  • Creatine- Increases DHT, strength, etc..
  • Mucuna Pruriens- Increases dopamine, surprisingly felt a difference when I took this, maybe I should get some more.
  • Tongkat Ali/Fadogia Agrestis- Andrew Huberman recommends, we've all heard it by now. Does it work? Possibly, it seems Tongkat works as a sort of SERM, possible bad side effects and tolerance building up after a while.
  • Good multivitamin- I like orange triad.
  • Zinc- increases test if you're deficient.

I just want to reiterate.... I would not dismiss the potential infertility side effects. My case is not indicitive of all cases. I've also been a father to 2 boys, and am young, and do not have a long chronicity of use. If you get on TRT, stay on for 10 years, then all the sudden at 36 want to try to have kids, your circumstances may be more challenging. It really really requires a competent doctor. Many dudes have to come off and it can take 6 months to 1 year to regain fertility. Especially since a lot of men early on did not get prescribed the HCG protocol, it absolutely DID really jack a bunch of guys up.
 

Stadtaffe

Kingfisher
Orthodox
Gold Member
I tried 'macca' and 'tribulus' before but they did nothing at all. Remember forcing myself to eat these funny tasting powders, trying to disolve them. I really gave them a go and they did absolutely nothing for me.

ZMA definitely does something for sleep quality and has at least short term affect on T. Optimally if you take it before bed on a day where you have exercised well it does something special to my sleep and morning wood is more frequent and strong.
Yohimbe (be very careful with this one, I mistakenly took a large dose first time I used it and it was too intense for my heart, had to come down with Hawthorne and Gotu Kola) recommend 1/8tsp at most for starters.
A book I once read about fat loss got me tempted to try yohimbine but the more I researched it the scarier it sounded. It's banned in most parts of Europe but legal in in the UK, keep meaning to get some next time I pass through. I think no problems in the US. From an African plant. But honestly even from that book I read which was by a quite extreme character, it sounds like you have to be very careful and attentive with it.

Read the thread and there are a few suggestions here which I had never heard of and am now interested in perhaps trying namely -
tongkat-ali, pine pollen, aschwaganada and cistanche.

Recently tried lions mane mushroom as a tincture but so far noticed absolutely nothing.
 

MichaelWitcoff

Hummingbird
Orthodox
I don't want to hijack, but I will make one point since I have some experience with this.

Short answer: Yes. It can negatively affect your Sperm count/motility ect. It can be mitigated, but in my opinion its really the biggest potential side effect of the drug, one that men often dont consider.

In your case, from the post at least....those ranges are fairly normal given the age group. Free Testosterone varies throughout a day/week ect... and dependent on when you test. That being said, a baseline is a good thing to get. People think that the base Test level is like 1000 -1200 but thats like peak/optimal and not really something you're going to stay at except during puberty and maybe your very early 20's.

I've had tests all over. I've come off for 3 or for weeks of TRT just to see what my levels were, I've had tests taking half the perscription, to see what it brought my levels to, and I've had tests well above the baseline when my doctor was trying to dial in my correct amount. Personally I cant tell the difference between being at 700 and 1200. But I can tell the difference in between 150 and 500. I can also tell the difference between 500 and 1500. But in my experience, the sleep/diet/lack of alcohol had a greater impact on my perception of how I felt than the testosterone level provided I was in a "theraputic" range of 500-800 (some argue 800 is the optimal range based off of studies) At 500-700 you have the hormonal substrate to facilitate body comp and energy ect....

That all being said I would discourage getting on a TRT regime from a doctor until you've already had kids as it can absolutely affect your fertility. At 26 its going to be hard to justify the potential damage that could do to your testicular function... and those numbers are in range so you'll likely have to go to a clinic and get ripped off.

Again, It's case by case dependent. Some men are on a lot of sauce and get people pregnant... Others are shut down after a short period of use.

There are other drugs a doctor will give to keep your fertility Iike add HCG (which mimicks LH and keeps your intra-testicular testosterone viable) I can only speak for myself: Had ZERO issues with my exwife conceiving. So I knew my plumbing worked. After I had my 2 boys, 3 years later I got TRT with an HCG protocol. After getting remarried my wife and I want to have a child. I had a sperm analysis.... I was fine. Probably lower than I would have been if I never were on TRT... but still 100% viable. I followed the HCG protocol exactly as prescribed since day 1 of it being prescribed and have it verified once a year to continue a baseline. In my case, I can continue the Trt regime with HCG and can still get the old lady pregnant. Some men have to come off Testosterone completely, give their testes some time to attempt to restart, and they add HCG/HMG + Clomid or other drugs to mimic both LH and FSH.

I happen to be very fortunate in going to the #1 Urologist in the country who literally wrote the book on male fertility. Any doctor who doesn't stress the seriousness of potential fertility issues is not who you want treating you.

It's a very serious consideration and one that shouldn't be minimized.... just because I didnt have any issues doesnt mean others wont.

Typically the fertility issues are based off of chronicity of use. This is also why abusers cycle on and off, to try and preserve some testicular function. But that's a foolish notion after you've been on for a while as once you go down that rabbithole... its pretty much a life long deal. IF you've been on trt for 10 years, no HCG, you'll likely have issues. But again case by case and you really need to have a doctor who knows what they are doing or atleast follows the Lipshultz protocol (which is the standard of 1500mg hcg a week to preserve fertility)
Note that many clinics have now replaced HCG with Gonadorelin, which is absolutely worthless. It does literally nothing when they prescribe it as if it’s HCG and you will absolutely damage your fertility if you’re on TRT and Gonadorelin.
 

Stadtaffe

Kingfisher
Orthodox
Gold Member
I don't want to hijack
Injecting with pharmaceuticals is something else, not sure how the OP feels about this but there is enough drug pushing in this world and enough threads on this forum for that topic:








Hope you guys aren't shareholders in those pharma companies..

What is the difference? The one is either a plant extract or maybe purified extract of one ingredient like creatine, the other is something very deeply refined with multistep laboratory processes, possibly with animal organs as starting points in some cases.

I want to just nudge my hormones a bit back to how they once were. Am fit, lift, run and sleep well but it is worth a few experiments with herbs to perhaps just get over a phase but not worth the risk of completely rewiring ones endocrine system.
 

COtrailrider

Robin
Gnostic or New Age
Whoever gets TRT has their balls owned by the doctors. They jack up the price of T? Oh well, there goes that vacation with the family, or that new rifle to stop the hordes of androgynous slime from encroaching on your home to steal your kids.
I've considered this as well. Supply chain disruptions, additional gov't regulations, all can affect access. A few months ago the FDA was working to ban compounded TRT - I dug up the below link.

 

zoom

Kingfisher
Catholic
Gold Member
I've tried a lot of different methods to increase natural testosterone production. For me, nothing else compares to icing the testicles. However I don't have blood work to prove an increase.
 

get2choppaaa

Hummingbird
Orthodox
]https://www.ergo-log.com/

Your link for all data proven results on ergogenic aids from herbal boosting
t supplements to studies on exogenous hormones.

It's a valuable resource.

There is not really much that helps other thankts of lifting, low body fat, diet, and sleep.

But peruse at your leisure.
 

TheosisSeeker

Robin
Orthodox Catechumen
I think Roosh has spoken against this, but what are Christian thoughts on TRT from a doctor? I mean monitoring and pharmaceutical grade from a medical source, not anything illegal. I could not find a thread on this.
 

Don Quixote

Ostrich
Orthodox Inquirer
I think Roosh has spoken against this, but what are Christian thoughts on TRT from a doctor? I mean monitoring and pharmaceutical grade from a medical source, not anything illegal. I could not find a thread on this.
If you're hypogonadal, there is evidence it can have positive effects on your health. But @inthefade is correct. If you get on it, it may be hard to get off without crashing so you have to be careful about it. I would only consider it if there's a legit medical reason, not just to get more muscle mass or better aesthetics.
 

rainy

Pelican
Other Christian
I think Roosh has spoken against this, but what are Christian thoughts on TRT from a doctor? I mean monitoring and pharmaceutical grade from a medical source, not anything illegal. I could not find a thread on this.
Look at the world today. Do you want to be dependent on a doctor?

I would exhaust every avenue relating to lifestyle first. Most people can improve immensely there.
 

get2choppaaa

Hummingbird
Orthodox
I think Roosh has spoken against this, but what are Christian thoughts on TRT from a doctor? I mean monitoring and pharmaceutical grade from a medical source, not anything illegal. I could not find a thread on this.
If you go on... You never come off. For me it was the right thing to do, but I knew the risks.

It's not something you causally do, and the point isn't to abuse it.

No reason to say you can't be a good Christian and take it... But it's all dependent on your motivation. If you're doing it for pure vanity sake... probably not so salvific... compared to a medical need.

The herbal stuff just doesnt work.

Better to nail vitamin d, sleep, weight training, exercise, and low body fat and you'll likely be in best natural levels.

It can also mess up your fertility in Some*** men. Not worth the risk
 
If you go on... You never come off. For me it was the right thing to do, but I knew the risks.

It's not something you causally do, and the point isn't to abuse it.

No reason to say you can't be a good Christian and take it... But it's all dependent on your motivation. If you're doing it for pure vanity sake... probably not so salvific... compared to a medical need.

The herbal stuff just doesnt work.

Better to nail vitamin d, sleep, weight training, exercise, and low body fat and you'll likely be in best natural levels.

It can also mess up your fertility in Some*** men. Not worth the risk
Did you look into clomid for when you get off? If you microdose clomid properly it can restore some balance when the time comes to get off. Your body cannot be taking in exogenous T forever. This may help with those who have hypogonadism (as a result of workplace hazards such as radiation exposure and transdermal absorption of chemicals, which is common in military roles.)
 

get2choppaaa

Hummingbird
Orthodox
Did you look into clomid for when you get off? If you microdose clomid properly it can restore some balance when the time comes to get off. Your body cannot be taking in exogenous T forever. This may help with those who have hypogonadism (as a result of workplace hazards such as radiation exposure and transdermal absorption of chemicals, which is common in military roles.)
Not to derail, but the clomid thing has a certain use for specific cases, and everyone who uses it for medical need is doing so for short term fertility or to bridge their own testicular function re-starting. I think you might be associating TRT with Blasting and Cruising.... blast and cruise (a term for taking supraphysiological exogenous drug use, then going to a trt dose or come off and then blasting again ect). The reason you might do this is because you want to preserve some of your natural testicular function for fertility protocols and endogenous production in the future. But if you're replacing something that isnt working, you dont come off.

I stay on year round on the same dose for the last 4 years .... been on a regiment that keeps my levels optimal (between 800-1000) Early on I had a couple outliers, or did bloodwork 12 hours at the height of the peak after a shot, but now I've got it pretty well dialed in. Fertility hasn't been an issue in my case, but I've maintained the HCG protocol also during the whole time. Only reason for me to come off would be if I was having issue with MY fertility...Doc would add clomid, pull the test ect... but again not needed in my case.

Some folks might benefit from the clomid thing and not need to go the route of TRT. I wrote a posts about the issues of this with fertility for some* in another thread... but it is absolutely a thing for many men. I also have a friend who at 26 was diagnosed with low t (in the 200 levels at 26....) had no sperm count to speak of, and tried the clomid and hcg protocols through an endocrinologist. His was a weird case. I think like many it was a combo of plastics and poor diet/sleep that got him messed up.

As far as supplements that are helpful. DIM is one that helps deal with excess estrogen in the body. Vitamin D, and often overlooked is quality salt intake (red salt/salt with color) and Iodine are also crucial to hormone profile... not just for T but also for thyroid function. Fish oil and healthy fats really play a major factor also. Test's substrate is Cholesterol. So if you are eating a low low fat diet with out good /healthy animal fats, your hormone milieu will suffer aslo. Also, easier said than done...but avoid plastic. Wife and I switched to glass tubberwear, bpa free plastic when we have to use it.
 
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