Holocaust fact finding thread
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Truth Teller
Kingfisher
Teedub said:Truth Teller...can you take me off your ignore list so that I can reply to your PM
I've taken you off. I don't remember why I put you on in the first place. :angel:
Fisto said:
They're not comparable at all, made-up college rape statistics and the number of Jews killed in World War II.
For college "rape", the likely victimization rate is around 1 in 1,000, 250 times less than the 1 in 4 figure bandied about. And many amongst that raped super-minority are raped by non-college students, too, particularly if they live off-campus.
It would be a good analogy if, instead of six million, only 24,000 Jews (1/250th of six million) really died. And that's just plain farcical to me.
Even if you dispute the six million figure, a very large number of Jews perished through a deliberate policy of extermination via shooting, neglect (starvation, disease etc), or gassing.
Can those questioning the six million figure indicate what number of Jews supposedly died? If you've already stated your figure, please state it again, as this thread is pretty hard reading.
The difference between two, three, four or six million Jews dying is, aside from the human tragedy aspect of it, more irrelevant than it first appears. It still represents a policy of mass extermination and I have no clue what goals many people in this thread have by questioning the six million figure. Will four or five somehow change the landscape? I doubt it.
When you consider that Poland lost three million Catholic Slavs out of 27 million during World War II (11% of that population), the idea that the vast majority of the much more hated three million Polish Jews died is hardly fanciful.
/\ I agree that it's apalling regardless of whether the true figure is 3 million, 1 million or half a million.
It's still horrific..
The issue a lot of ordinary people have is how the 6 million figure is pushed relentlessly by the media and some politicians even as it's been acknowledged already several years ago at Auschwitz and other camps that the real figure is significantly less than six million.
It's the way this six million figure is used to guilt Europeans and especially Germans into collective responsibility that almost nobody alive today bears any responsibility for.
It's a vicious and very destructive lie.
It's still horrific..
The issue a lot of ordinary people have is how the 6 million figure is pushed relentlessly by the media and some politicians even as it's been acknowledged already several years ago at Auschwitz and other camps that the real figure is significantly less than six million.
It's the way this six million figure is used to guilt Europeans and especially Germans into collective responsibility that almost nobody alive today bears any responsibility for.
It's a vicious and very destructive lie.
amity said:
Even more destructive are the lies told around the lies of why and how this happened. Why even offer concentration camps with swimming pools, shops and theaters initially? Why not just starve everyone to death and be done with it in 2-3 months?
Millions of Jews likely died, more millions of Europeans died in WWII.
The narrative is used and abused to create tension not only among the Western tribes, but even among the Jews who are equally brainwashed and are thus more easily motivated to act against the West.
It's one big clusterfuck really. I wonder if humanity will ever take a detailed look at it in the future free from all the bias.
"Who hold the balance of the World? Who reign
O'er congress, whether royalist or liberal?
Who rouse the shirtless patriots of Spain?[615]
(That make old Europe's journals "squeak and gibber"[616] all)
Who keep the World, both old and new, in pain
Or pleasure? Who make politics run glibber all?
The shade of Buonaparte's noble daring?--
Jew Rothschild,[617] and his fellow-Christian, Baring."
Lord Byron
O'er congress, whether royalist or liberal?
Who rouse the shirtless patriots of Spain?[615]
(That make old Europe's journals "squeak and gibber"[616] all)
Who keep the World, both old and new, in pain
Or pleasure? Who make politics run glibber all?
The shade of Buonaparte's noble daring?--
Jew Rothschild,[617] and his fellow-Christian, Baring."
Lord Byron
Mr. Ripley
Sparrow
Trump declares May Jewish history month.
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PROCLAMATIONS
President Donald J. Trump Proclaims May 2018 as Jewish American Heritage Month
Issued on: April 30, 2018
menuALL NEWS
During Jewish American Heritage Month, we celebrate the profound contributions that the Jewish faith and its traditions have had on our Nation. Two hundred years ago, in April 1818, Mordecai Noah delivered his famous discourse before the members of America’s first synagogue, Congregation Shearith Israel, upon the consecration of their new house of worship. Reflecting on Jewish history as well as on the unique rights and privileges afforded to American Jews, Noah proclaimed that, “for the first time in eighteen centuries, it may be said that the Jew feels he was born equal, and is entitled to equal protection; he can now breathe freely.”
Jewish Americans have helped guide the moral character of our Nation. They have maintained a strong commitment to engage deeply in American society while also preserving their historic values and traditions. Their passion for social justice and showing kindness to strangers is rooted in the beliefs that God created all people in his image and that we all deserve dignity and peace. These beliefs have inspired Jewish Americans to build mutual-support societies, hospitals, and educational institutions that have enabled them and their fellow Americans to advance American society. Jewish Americans marched for civil rights in Selma and fought for the freedom of their brethren behind the Iron Curtain. Through their actions, they have made the world a better place.
The contributions of the Jewish people to American society are innumerable, strengthening our Nation and making it more prosperous. American Jews have proudly served our country in all branches of government, from local to Federal, and they have defended our freedom while serving in the United States Armed Forces. The indelible marks that American Jews have left on literature, music, cinema, and the arts have enriched the American soul. In their enduring tradition of generosity, Jewish Americans have established some of the largest philanthropic and volunteer networks in the Nation, providing humanitarian aid and social services to those in need at home and abroad, acting as a “light unto the nations.” Universities and other institutions around the country proudly display Nobel prizes won by Jewish Americans in the fields of medicine, chemistry, physics, and economics.
In reaction to Mordecai Noah’s 1818 discourse, Thomas Jefferson wrote that American laws protect “our religious as they do our civil rights by putting all on an equal footing.” The American Jewish community is a shining example of how enshrining freedom of religion and protecting the rights of minorities can strengthen a nation. Through their rich culture and heritage, the Jewish people have triumphed over adversity and enhanced our country. For this and many other reasons, the American Jewish community is deserving of our respect, recognition, and gratitude.
NOW, THEREFORE, I, DONALD J. TRUMP, President of the United States of America, by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Constitution and the laws of the United States, do hereby proclaim May 2018 as Jewish American Heritage Month. I call upon all Americans to celebrate the heritage and contributions of American Jews and to observe this month with appropriate programs, activities, and ceremonies.
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this thirtieth day of April, in the year of our Lord two thousand eighteen, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and forty-second.
DONALD J TRUMP
https://www.whitehouse.gov/presiden...aims-may-2018-jewish-american-heritage-month/
White House Logo
SHARE
PROCLAMATIONS
President Donald J. Trump Proclaims May 2018 as Jewish American Heritage Month
Issued on: April 30, 2018
menuALL NEWS
During Jewish American Heritage Month, we celebrate the profound contributions that the Jewish faith and its traditions have had on our Nation. Two hundred years ago, in April 1818, Mordecai Noah delivered his famous discourse before the members of America’s first synagogue, Congregation Shearith Israel, upon the consecration of their new house of worship. Reflecting on Jewish history as well as on the unique rights and privileges afforded to American Jews, Noah proclaimed that, “for the first time in eighteen centuries, it may be said that the Jew feels he was born equal, and is entitled to equal protection; he can now breathe freely.”
Jewish Americans have helped guide the moral character of our Nation. They have maintained a strong commitment to engage deeply in American society while also preserving their historic values and traditions. Their passion for social justice and showing kindness to strangers is rooted in the beliefs that God created all people in his image and that we all deserve dignity and peace. These beliefs have inspired Jewish Americans to build mutual-support societies, hospitals, and educational institutions that have enabled them and their fellow Americans to advance American society. Jewish Americans marched for civil rights in Selma and fought for the freedom of their brethren behind the Iron Curtain. Through their actions, they have made the world a better place.
The contributions of the Jewish people to American society are innumerable, strengthening our Nation and making it more prosperous. American Jews have proudly served our country in all branches of government, from local to Federal, and they have defended our freedom while serving in the United States Armed Forces. The indelible marks that American Jews have left on literature, music, cinema, and the arts have enriched the American soul. In their enduring tradition of generosity, Jewish Americans have established some of the largest philanthropic and volunteer networks in the Nation, providing humanitarian aid and social services to those in need at home and abroad, acting as a “light unto the nations.” Universities and other institutions around the country proudly display Nobel prizes won by Jewish Americans in the fields of medicine, chemistry, physics, and economics.
In reaction to Mordecai Noah’s 1818 discourse, Thomas Jefferson wrote that American laws protect “our religious as they do our civil rights by putting all on an equal footing.” The American Jewish community is a shining example of how enshrining freedom of religion and protecting the rights of minorities can strengthen a nation. Through their rich culture and heritage, the Jewish people have triumphed over adversity and enhanced our country. For this and many other reasons, the American Jewish community is deserving of our respect, recognition, and gratitude.
NOW, THEREFORE, I, DONALD J. TRUMP, President of the United States of America, by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Constitution and the laws of the United States, do hereby proclaim May 2018 as Jewish American Heritage Month. I call upon all Americans to celebrate the heritage and contributions of American Jews and to observe this month with appropriate programs, activities, and ceremonies.
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this thirtieth day of April, in the year of our Lord two thousand eighteen, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and forty-second.
DONALD J TRUMP
https://www.whitehouse.gov/presiden...aims-may-2018-jewish-american-heritage-month/
Mr. Ripley
Sparrow
Trump declares May Jewish history month.
White House Logo
SHARE
PROCLAMATIONS
President Donald J. Trump Proclaims May 2018 as Jewish American Heritage Month
Issued on: April 30, 2018
menuALL NEWS
During Jewish American Heritage Month, we celebrate the profound contributions that the Jewish faith and its traditions have had on our Nation. Two hundred years ago, in April 1818, Mordecai Noah delivered his famous discourse before the members of America’s first synagogue, Congregation Shearith Israel, upon the consecration of their new house of worship. Reflecting on Jewish history as well as on the unique rights and privileges afforded to American Jews, Noah proclaimed that, “for the first time in eighteen centuries, it may be said that the Jew feels he was born equal, and is entitled to equal protection; he can now breathe freely.”
Jewish Americans have helped guide the moral character of our Nation. They have maintained a strong commitment to engage deeply in American society while also preserving their historic values and traditions. Their passion for social justice and showing kindness to strangers is rooted in the beliefs that God created all people in his image and that we all deserve dignity and peace. These beliefs have inspired Jewish Americans to build mutual-support societies, hospitals, and educational institutions that have enabled them and their fellow Americans to advance American society. Jewish Americans marched for civil rights in Selma and fought for the freedom of their brethren behind the Iron Curtain. Through their actions, they have made the world a better place.
The contributions of the Jewish people to American society are innumerable, strengthening our Nation and making it more prosperous. American Jews have proudly served our country in all branches of government, from local to Federal, and they have defended our freedom while serving in the United States Armed Forces. The indelible marks that American Jews have left on literature, music, cinema, and the arts have enriched the American soul. In their enduring tradition of generosity, Jewish Americans have established some of the largest philanthropic and volunteer networks in the Nation, providing humanitarian aid and social services to those in need at home and abroad, acting as a “light unto the nations.” Universities and other institutions around the country proudly display Nobel prizes won by Jewish Americans in the fields of medicine, chemistry, physics, and economics.
In reaction to Mordecai Noah’s 1818 discourse, Thomas Jefferson wrote that American laws protect “our religious as they do our civil rights by putting all on an equal footing.” The American Jewish community is a shining example of how enshrining freedom of religion and protecting the rights of minorities can strengthen a nation. Through their rich culture and heritage, the Jewish people have triumphed over adversity and enhanced our country. For this and many other reasons, the American Jewish community is deserving of our respect, recognition, and gratitude.
NOW, THEREFORE, I, DONALD J. TRUMP, President of the United States of America, by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Constitution and the laws of the United States, do hereby proclaim May 2018 as Jewish American Heritage Month. I call upon all Americans to celebrate the heritage and contributions of American Jews and to observe this month with appropriate programs, activities, and ceremonies.
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this thirtieth day of April, in the year of our Lord two thousand eighteen, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and forty-second.
DONALD J TRUMP
https://www.whitehouse.gov/presiden...aims-may-2018-jewish-american-heritage-month/
White House Logo
SHARE
PROCLAMATIONS
President Donald J. Trump Proclaims May 2018 as Jewish American Heritage Month
Issued on: April 30, 2018
menuALL NEWS
During Jewish American Heritage Month, we celebrate the profound contributions that the Jewish faith and its traditions have had on our Nation. Two hundred years ago, in April 1818, Mordecai Noah delivered his famous discourse before the members of America’s first synagogue, Congregation Shearith Israel, upon the consecration of their new house of worship. Reflecting on Jewish history as well as on the unique rights and privileges afforded to American Jews, Noah proclaimed that, “for the first time in eighteen centuries, it may be said that the Jew feels he was born equal, and is entitled to equal protection; he can now breathe freely.”
Jewish Americans have helped guide the moral character of our Nation. They have maintained a strong commitment to engage deeply in American society while also preserving their historic values and traditions. Their passion for social justice and showing kindness to strangers is rooted in the beliefs that God created all people in his image and that we all deserve dignity and peace. These beliefs have inspired Jewish Americans to build mutual-support societies, hospitals, and educational institutions that have enabled them and their fellow Americans to advance American society. Jewish Americans marched for civil rights in Selma and fought for the freedom of their brethren behind the Iron Curtain. Through their actions, they have made the world a better place.
The contributions of the Jewish people to American society are innumerable, strengthening our Nation and making it more prosperous. American Jews have proudly served our country in all branches of government, from local to Federal, and they have defended our freedom while serving in the United States Armed Forces. The indelible marks that American Jews have left on literature, music, cinema, and the arts have enriched the American soul. In their enduring tradition of generosity, Jewish Americans have established some of the largest philanthropic and volunteer networks in the Nation, providing humanitarian aid and social services to those in need at home and abroad, acting as a “light unto the nations.” Universities and other institutions around the country proudly display Nobel prizes won by Jewish Americans in the fields of medicine, chemistry, physics, and economics.
In reaction to Mordecai Noah’s 1818 discourse, Thomas Jefferson wrote that American laws protect “our religious as they do our civil rights by putting all on an equal footing.” The American Jewish community is a shining example of how enshrining freedom of religion and protecting the rights of minorities can strengthen a nation. Through their rich culture and heritage, the Jewish people have triumphed over adversity and enhanced our country. For this and many other reasons, the American Jewish community is deserving of our respect, recognition, and gratitude.
NOW, THEREFORE, I, DONALD J. TRUMP, President of the United States of America, by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Constitution and the laws of the United States, do hereby proclaim May 2018 as Jewish American Heritage Month. I call upon all Americans to celebrate the heritage and contributions of American Jews and to observe this month with appropriate programs, activities, and ceremonies.
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this thirtieth day of April, in the year of our Lord two thousand eighteen, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and forty-second.
DONALD J TRUMP
https://www.whitehouse.gov/presiden...aims-may-2018-jewish-american-heritage-month/
Green-On-GO
Woodpecker
I reckon the Japs were innocent during WW2.
There was no mass murder of Chinese nor were POWs treated badly.
The Brit ,Aussie ,Yank POWs just didn't want to eat because they couldn't stand rice so they got sick.
The Jap military tried to help them with medical care but these POWs were just stubborn and wanted no help.
They were racist against Asians so didn't want Jap Doctors toiching them.
They volunteered to build to build the Burma Thai railway but they wanted no food for it.
Those crazy white guys and Coolies just kept dying and the kind Japs did everything to help them.
So all the Jap atrocities are a myth and Allied POWs just went on hunger strikes
All Allied POWs were just liars and it was an excuse to carve up Japan.
You know like those Allied POWs the Germans captured and put in Concetration camps to keep them safe after they were naughty or those Millions of Russian POWs that just refused to eat.
Or those Allied soldiers that liberated the Concetration camps more liars.
There was no mass murder of Chinese nor were POWs treated badly.
The Brit ,Aussie ,Yank POWs just didn't want to eat because they couldn't stand rice so they got sick.
The Jap military tried to help them with medical care but these POWs were just stubborn and wanted no help.
They were racist against Asians so didn't want Jap Doctors toiching them.
They volunteered to build to build the Burma Thai railway but they wanted no food for it.
Those crazy white guys and Coolies just kept dying and the kind Japs did everything to help them.
So all the Jap atrocities are a myth and Allied POWs just went on hunger strikes
All Allied POWs were just liars and it was an excuse to carve up Japan.
You know like those Allied POWs the Germans captured and put in Concetration camps to keep them safe after they were naughty or those Millions of Russian POWs that just refused to eat.
Or those Allied soldiers that liberated the Concetration camps more liars.
Green-On-GO said:
Not sure what you are trying to get at by being sarcastic, but all these points illustrate what this thread is getting at: That WWII was numerous regional conflicts where various different nations devastated each other - Japan devastated China and other parts of SEA, Germany devastated Eastern Europe, US devastated Germany and Japan....the Jews are objectively only a tiny fraction of this yet are being blown way out of proportion. Maybe this was the point you were trying to make.
Germany devastated Eastern Europe?
Wasn't that the Jewish communists?
Wasn't that the Jewish communists?
ProGambler said:
Both.
Germany in the final months of war carted off a lot of factory equipment from the industrialized cities in EE. Also they engaged in a genocidal campaign against the intelligentsia of EE - at least part of them even closing universities for a couple years. Only at later levels of the war did Hitler espouse integration of the slavs into the Reich. Many were used as slave laborers under austere conditions.
The Bolsheviks intended to do much worse of course, so one could argue about the degree. After the war a lot of that genocide had to be rolled back because the EE people had to officially join and support the communist bloc.
kamoz said:
Let's not overstate this. Yes, Jews were a minority of WWII deaths but their Jewishness painted targets on their backs that could never be erased while the Nazis ruled most of Europe. The Jews were treated more harshly by the Nazis, much more harshly, than the otherwise hated Slavs were. Aside from scarce individual cases, Jews were never spared from persecution.
The only group that came close to Jews for being persecuted and exterminated by the Germans was the captured Red Army soldiers. Poles and others were certainly butchered, but the murdered Slavs basically had to win a kind of macabre lottery in order to be killed. This lottery was on display in Lidice in Bohemia, where the Nazis killed hundreds of or several thousand Czechs as reprisal work for the killing of Himmler's deputy Reinhard Heydrich. Tragic and inexcusable, but nevertheless confined to a limited area.
If "inferior" Slavic nations kowtowed to the Germans, they fared pretty well (murder is murder, yes, but mortality rates were lower when countries minimized their resistance). For example, the death rate in Slavic Czechoslovakia (partitioned into the military-governed Bohemia/Moravia and Hitler's direct ally Slovakia) was the same (ca. 3.5%) as the death rate in the supposedly Aryan Netherlands. Though the Czechs were not pro-Nazi like many Slovaks, they offered only piecemeal resistance to the Nazis, excluding the assassination of Heydrich in '42.
By contrast, the Poles experienced a 20% death rate. Even if you take out the Polish Jews, the death rate was 4-5 times higher in Poland than in the modern-day Czech Republic. The Poles erupted in revolt in '44 and had a very decently organized resistance, whereas the Czechs were essentially the last European people to be met by Allied soldiers and tanks. The Czechs also gave up without a shot in late '38 (the Sudetenland Crisis) and early '39 (the annexation of their lands), whilst the Poles fought pretty valiantly for around a month in '39.
Likewise, the Nordic Dutch experienced a higher death rate (2.5 times higher) than the non-Germanic French because they tended to resist more and collaborate less. This is despite the historical animosity between the Germans and French.
For the Jews, it didn't matter whether they resisted (generally they didn't).
I get your point, yet the Nazi policy towards the Jews, albeit originally contradictory, became a plan of genocide that lacks any firm parallel in the wider context of World War II.
< He is stil around, but disappeared from public life - he published a semi-sarcastic letter that said that EVERYTHING TOLD AS BY THE OFFICIAL ACCOUNTS IS ABSOLUTELY 100% TRUE and that he was just a young unaware boy and that they should leave him the fuck alone.
I think there is a link of his letter somewhere in the thread. He quickly realized that the kickback to his activities is just too severe. Though the letter is worded so clear that it might appear legit - in reality he states all the most inane things as truth now - even the ones he saw with his own eyes to be false.
I understand him - the repercussions are just too severe.
I think there is a link of his letter somewhere in the thread. He quickly realized that the kickback to his activities is just too severe. Though the letter is worded so clear that it might appear legit - in reality he states all the most inane things as truth now - even the ones he saw with his own eyes to be false.
I understand him - the repercussions are just too severe.
Green-On-GO
Woodpecker
fokker said:
Achtung ...I'm was being sarcastic
Dude I use to have this arguement back in the 90s with skin heads I served with in the Army.
Some how all Jap crimes against us are real but Nazi crimes are fake.
Holocaust denial to me is an insult to every Allied soldier who fought the Nazis and liberated camps.
Its an insult to every Allied POW put in those camps and Allied POWs who witnessed what the Nazis did.
Its an insult to evey kid put on a train and sent to the gas chambers...but but they needed toddlers to work the mines.
Witness upon witness from Doctors to postmen to Police officers etc etc .What they all met in a pub after the war and made it up?
Where are the Jap papers that say starve ,beat ,bayonet allied POWs?The Chinese Yanks etc must be lying
Also there is no question on the estimated German Jap or USSR dead but Jews eterminated dead that can't be real.
BTW all those skinheads cease being skinheads once they went on Ops and carried their first butchered kid..
If a 96 year old Jap man was arrested for crimes against Aussie ,Brit or Yank POWs .Say he beheaded dozens was known on the Baatan death march then worked the Thai Burma railway .He was at Nanking way before that.
Say that cunt was arrested.Would the denial crew rush to his defence?Fuck no.
Arrest a 96 year old former Nazi camp guard and denial crew lose their shit.Oh let him go he is an old man bla bla bla.
Yeah but he killed women and kids..nah never happened.
But the Jap that's different.
Green-On-GO said:
What do you think of General Patton, the liberator of Europe?
http://foreignpolicy.com/2010/06/25/patton-the-anti-semite-and-hypocrite/