How bad is is to marry an older woman?

Hi everyone,

I'm a Western male in my early 20s who moved to deep EE not long ago. Here's my issue. I've developed a pretty good social network here, but the women are more typically 23-33 rather than 16-22 (maybe a 5:1 ratio between the two age groups, though to be clear I'm considering dating women up to say 27 in this scenario, not 33!). My question is, how bad is it to marry a woman who's my age or slightly older, and what are the bad things you've encountered when dating women slightly older than yourself (compared to women your age or younger than yourself)?

My goal in the very near future is to find a wife and have kids with her. On the one hand, younger women are somewhat more physically attractive, will stay attractive for a few years longer long term, might be more pleasing/submissive on average, and the power dynamic might be more in my favor. On the other hand, girls aged 16-22 in deep EE where I live aren't ready to have kids within 2-3 years like the older ones are (they've yet to finish university, and then want some free years after university ends). I'm skeptical about dating some girl for 4 years, only for us to then breakup (like I've seen happen in my country in the West). And dating/marriage for many years without producing children is what would have to first happen with most 16-20 year old girls in EE. Slightly older girls are also less childish/more mature on average, and I also simply have many more girls aged 23-27 in my network than I do younger girls (though there are a few).

I've mentioned a few months ago that for me, the wife should have an IQ that is at the very minimum 130 or so (for the sake of my future children). Unfortunately, no such girls (as far as I can tell) in EE have children during their university years. Even just the average age of first marriage in Belarus/Ukraine/Russia for women is 25, and the higher the IQ, the greater the tendencies in women are towards having kids later, fewer, or none at all.

TL;DR My question is the title of this thread.
 

Paracelsus

Crow
Gold Member
Cultural Refugee said:
I've mentioned a few months ago that for me, the wife should have an IQ that is at the very minimum 130 or so (for the sake of my future children). Unfortunately, no such girls (as far as I can tell) in EE have children during their university years. Even just the average age of first marriage in Belarus/Ukraine/Russia for women is 25, and the higher the IQ, the greater the tendencies in women are towards having kids later, fewer, or none at all.
This is tangential, but you're basically taking a crapshoot when it comes to mixing your genes with those of your spouse. There is no rule that says if mother is a genius that her strapping sons will be. Albert Einstein's first son from his first wife made no particular breakthroughs in engineering, and his second son had schizophrenia. For his second wife he married his cousin, so we'll leave that branch of the family alone.

What I'm saying is that if you're looking to impregnate the highest-IQ woman you can find, results simply may not match expected outcomes. Life has a nasty habit of imitating Crusader Kings II at its worst moments when it comes to how your kids turn out. Sure, you probably won't be marrying her if she has to count to ten using her fingers and can't do twenty because her left foot is misshapen, but holding out for a university-educated woman only because she's likely to have a high IQbecause she goes to university is using the wrong metric.

Look instead for -- uni degree or not, and avoid Arts degrees like the plague -- whether she has her proverbial shit together. How does she manage money? Does she have a good relationship with a large extended family (which is predominantly of good character)? Does she run her house practically and efficiently even if she's single, or are there clothes and used sanitary devices left all over the place? Does she drink a lot or use drugs? I think what you're looking for is mostly good impulse control, because (to me) that's the sign of a brain that can, at least for a while, override the screaming, "Feels Before Reals" right side of the brain in favour of the more logical, emotionless left side of the brain. (And that side of the brain is also the one we're theoretically looking for when the phrase 'IQ' is being talked about.) I don't know what economic conditions are like in EE, but assuming it's not a university-recruiters paradise where every fool gets to have a degree after his name, there are lots of people -- male and female -- who have themselves together without having to have a university degree. Most of the signs of that will come from how you see her run her life, not from the piece of paper on her wall.



(In passing: by mentioning the dreaded acronym 'IQ', you have managed to ask the one question that is more likely to send the discussion into race posting within about 10 replies or so. You're new here, we'll cut you a break today, but don't be surprised if your thread suddenly flies way off topic. :D )
 
Paracelsus advice is spot on. I will start off with my personal anecdote relating to older women and give you my take on your situation.

My last relationship, which lasted over 2 years, was with an older woman. She was almost 3 years older. The "chemistry" was off the charts, she was very smart (smartest woman i've met to this day) intellectually and in the red-pill sense, feminine body, etc etc. I was set on having kids and marrying this woman from the get-go. So we "get to work" and nothing happens...No pregnancy after one year. We both get tested and both our fertility parameters are "good" according to Dr's. So we keep trying and after two years, it dawned on me that she was most likely sterile. I wont go too much into detail, but she did not live a healthy lifestyle when she was young and started drinking + smoking at a very young age. This, along with all the crap in our western diet and water only exacerbate the issue. I broke up with her a few months after realizing this and told myself I would not pursue a relationship with an older woman again. She was in her early thirties.

You pursue older women at your own risk. You want a woman with a "high IQ", but what does that really mean? That she went to University 4 to 8 years, threw her best years of fertility for a degree? Does this sound like a "smart" move? Or is it smarter or "high IQ" if a woman who's 16-22 ditches University, continues living with her parents, continues growing in virtue, stays chaste, goes to church and makes her self the BEST she can be in order to land a high-value man, to have her first child by 20 and have many many more and continue her & her husbands genetic line? Which is "smarter" or "high IQ" to you? You need to start seeing what an intelligent woman is differently. I know that EE women value education because they were former commies, along with western propaganda creeping in with the promises of making a bunch of money, traveling and living a promiscuous lifestyle, away from her village or city, but you have to separate the wheat from the chaff.

We are not sure of your country of origin, but this wanting of a "smart woman" is western propaganda. I would suggest you stop thinking in those terms and shift to what Paracelsus stated. As long as the woman is not Mentally Disabled, is healthy, and willing to follow your lead, then you should be ok. A young woman wants an older man to teach her and lead her. Be that man instead of someone looking for a girl with a 130 IQ...

If you insist on getting with an older woman, or you truly are unable to land a younger woman because there are no young women who want to settle down and would rather "wait a few years after graduating" AKA travel in order to ride the c*ck carousel to sleep with latin/Italian men, then I would suggest the following:

A) Do not get with an older woman that is 30 and above. The younger she is, the better her fertility will be. Try your best to stick to mid 20s.
B) thoroughly investigate the older woman's past history. What were/are her current drinking and smoking habits? Does she do drugs? Did she live a wild life during her youth? Was she promiscuous?
C) Make sure she is currently living a healthy lifestyle. This will ensure that she is still fertile.

I do not want you, or any other Man to go through what I went through, especially during 2020 with fertility rates plummeting in the west and even abroad, we must take these things seriously. Please make sure you go through all of these steps before deciding to marry a woman.
 

lookslikeit

Woodpecker
Here is a quick one that can tell you about a woman: Her phone. I've found that most woman will break, smash, make dirty, add weird cases, etc.. to their phones. It doesn't matter if it's a $1200 iphone and they are broke college students, they'll still treat that expensive piece of hardware miserably.

I can understand if you are a carpenter and work in a volcano that your phone can get damaged (and then, don't buy an expensive one) but if you are working on a desk and have relatively little adventure beyond your daily commute, I expect your phone not to be cracked.
 
I was writing a reply to Paracelsus and Augustus_Principe, but my laptop crashed. Basically, 1. Two high IQ parents with high IQ recent bloodlines almost guarantees similarly high IQ kids. 2. I agree with you guys about which traits make for a good woman and that high IQ doesn't correlate positively with those traits. Augustus, I never said high IQ = smart. 3. It's not possible for me to compromise on my desire to have kids with a similar IQ to me. I would greatly suffer and would care much less for lower IQ kids. This is the way I am. It's the single most important thing for me, and validly so (higher IQ correlates with positive life, career, and other outcomes more than any other trait; it even correlates strongly with seemingly random things like healthy sperm).
 

Rob Banks

Pelican
I agree with Paracelus and Augustus.

IQ shouldn't matter that much. As long as she's not retarded, you should be OK. There are already so few marriageable women out there. Why limit yourself even further by demanding her IQ be over 130?

Marrying a woman is not like picking out a new car. If your attitude is to state a bunch of criteria (I want my future wife to be this tall, be between X and Y years old, have an IQ this high, have this kind of job/education, etc. etc.), that is not going to work out.

The most important thing is that the woman has good values (not slutty, good relationship with her father, etc.) and that you have enough good chemistry/communication with her that you can trust her.

Your wife is not just going to be some woman you use to make babies. She will be a part of you (when people use the expression "my other half" to refer to their husband or wife, that is not merely a silly expression). It is very important that you have a close relationship with her and you can 100% trust her. You're not going to find this by trying to find a woman who fits all your criteria as if you were buying some custom-made consumer product.

What I'm saying is not just for you, it's for the sake of your future kids. If you end up divorced or in a bad relationship with a woman you can't trust, that is going to negatively affect your kids' lives regardless how high their IQ is.
 

BlastbeatCasanova

Kingfisher
No. Sure it works from time to time but I think it goes against the nature of the sexes. At 30 most of a woman’s eggs are gone, her body has been aged by time and is less fit to carry a child. It’s because of all this social engineering that says “women can have it all and be moms at 40” that we have all this autism and other developmental disorders. My gf is really smart and very healthy but sometimes even the fact that she is only 2 years younger than myself sometimes nags at me in the back of my mind. It’s always in a man’s best interest to seek out younger fertile healthy women, full stop. For mental peace and biological reasons.

Also looking for 130 IQ in a woman is just ridiculous. As long as she isn’t a sub 100 tard your kids will be fine. A lot of intelligence comes from nurture, such as reading to them as kids and facilitating curiosity and healthy stimulation
 

buja

Woodpecker
Yes...the dreaded acronym 'IQ'
(BTW...Einstein would have most likely scored average on an IQ test)

Instead of IQ...worry about how healthy the woman is!

She could be an academic genius...but if she doesn't have enough zinc in her diet - Down Syndrome baby

An older healthy woman can give birth to healthy baby while a younger undernourished woman can have a birth defect baby.

(My friend's mom had him at 46 - and he's just fine)
 

MRBR1908

Newbie
There's something to be said for High High IQ and high enough IQ. The environment, two good loving parents, proper nutrition and diet, stimuli, etc can help to develop and push your child's IQ as they grow, versus meeting a high IQ person that doesn't really work great as a spouse or ends up playing hypergamy games because she is smart enough to outfox you....

Good luck!
 

Laner

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Marrying a woman your own age is something that will constantly be on your mind. Its easy for men to take age and failing health and body internally. But for women, its harder. When their bodies start to ache a bit, you hear it. You feel it. They wish to stay wrapped up tightly in their pain/embarrassment/pity than roll around naked with you.

I married a woman my own age and have zero regrets. We are 40 now. She is a master at holding off the wall, but picking a woman who can do this deserves its own thread entirely.

Personally, getting married at 30 still feels right. I would have had a kid right then, in hindsight, but oh well. I like women in the 24 - 30 age. I click with them better, and I am more attracted to them. But say I married a 26 year old when I was 30. What do I get? An extra 4 years, possibly. Once you hit 40 it doesn't seem to make as much of a difference. 10 years, yes. But a few years , no.
 

NoMoreTO

Pelican
I have found older women are usually not very compliant, often they tend to take the lead in the relationship. When the woman is significantly younger I find the opposite is true.

Also, even thought a woman can be beautiful well into her 30s, into her 40s is a harder thing. You will need a serious connection, as there will be a wall. With a younger woman, the age won't hit them as soon, so you will be more contented.

I am late 30s, I am looking for 26-32 years old.
 

AntoniusofEfa

Woodpecker
Any older women will have fewer eggs and more baggage.

If she took the career women route, she will have that shitty middle level manager attitude. If she top a shitty arts degree and is somehow managing it in a big and expensive city, most likely that she has debts, or she is living off her parents, or she is whoring on the side.

Time you spend with an older women is time you are not spending working on yourself, on your career, and pursuing younger women. I am in a weekend LTR with whom I am madly in love with, but not (anymore) physically attracted to. Part of this is due to the fact she is not fertile.

I am not in a position yet to exit this relationship, since I am working on my career and degree at the moment, and I know that I will not be able to deal with a breakup and all the other things.

Take it from somehow who has been there and done that: set the cutoff point to 25. If you got your game, physique and resources together you can aim for that age bracket even being towards the end of your 30s. A younger woman who wants badly wants to have kids will not overlook you due to a 10-year age gap. At least, this is what the anecdotal evidence from my limited social circle suggests. The few female friends I have, both married guys who were in their early 40s, while themselves were in their late 20's.
 
BlastbeatCasanova said:
At 30 most of a woman’s eggs are gone
People throw that sentence a lot here and it sounds scary when it is put like that but in fact most eggs are already gone when a female is born since as a fetus in early development they have about 6 million and at birth about a million, at puberty 400 000 - 300 000.

So how much does it actually say?

BlastbeatCasanova said:
Also looking for 130 IQ in a woman is just ridiculous. As long as she isn’t a sub 100 tard your kids will be fine. A lot of intelligence comes from nurture, such as reading to them as kids and facilitating curiosity and healthy stimulation
I don't think that is true according to science.

Science seem to say this in terms of nature vs. nurture in terms of intelligence.

Twin studies of adult individuals have found a heritability of IQ between 57% and 73% with the most recent studies showing heritability for IQ as high as 80% and 86%..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ

Then science also say that it's the mother's intelligence that is of most important. My mother has worked with kids in school her whole life and often claim this to be true, she claims it's a big correlation with smart mothers and smart kids and vice versa. But what do I know? It seems to be true however.

Women are more likely to transmit intelligence genes to their children because they are carried on the X chromosome and women have two of these, while men only have one.

But in addition to this, scientists now believe genes for advanced cognitive functions which are inherited from the father may be automatically deactivated.

A category of genes known as “conditioned genes” are thought to work only if they come from the mother in some cases and the father in other cases. Intelligence is believed to be among the conditioned genes that have to come from the mother.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...erit-inheritance-genetics-genes-a7345596.html

With that said, I agree with everything else in your post.
 

Eusebius

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Your preference for a woman with an IQ of 130 is a bit of a red flag for me, that you're stuck in your head and not in the real world. That's about 2% of women my friend. https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...the-smartest-people-in-the-world-are-all-men/
There are plenty of those smart, educated Eastern European ladies who can play a musical instrument and have read some books, with IQs of 110-125. That's a much larger pool, and what's wrong with those women? Above 130 you are getting beyond those with simple good genes (attractive, social, intelligent) and into aspie and outlier territory.
 
RawGod said:
Your preference for a woman with an IQ of 130 is a bit of a red flag for me, that you're stuck in your head and not in the real world. That's about 2% of women my friend. https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...the-smartest-people-in-the-world-are-all-men/
There are plenty of those smart, educated Eastern European ladies who can play a musical instrument and have read some books, with IQs of 110-125. That's a much larger pool, and what's wrong with those women? Above 130 you are getting beyond those with simple good genes (attractive, social, intelligent) and into aspie and outlier territory.
It's actually only around 1% of women owing to the tighter IQ distribution among women. My EE Wife has a legit 130+ IQ but because of it she finds very little in common with most other women...not necessarily a problem though.

IQ is definitely more influenced by nature than nurture - science shows adult IQ is around 80% heritable. A high IQ is not the be all and end all though - I could probably have been born with an IQ 10-15 points lower and made friends more easily, doubted/questioned myself less and not achieved any less.
 

AntoniusofEfa

Woodpecker
The highest IQ people I know have had the least success in life, since they lacked game. If we would just discuss the polar opposites here, I'd rather be a low IQ shark than a high IQ simp.
 
I currently live in Russia but originally from Germany. I found it easy to connect with women aged 18-30 and Im 41. Most girls I met want a relationship and marriage in near future. A younger woman is more prone to follow your lead and less hurt/broken by other men. Plus with a younger woman you will have more time to figure out whether shes good for you or not cause her clock is not ticking yet. WIth an older woman the upside is she is more emotionally mature and wise. She knows what shes looking for in a man, wont throw tantrums if she doesnt get her way, will have less expectations, is more likely to pay for herself and not use you for your money. I would date girls 18-25 and find the most compatible one, the one who is willing to submit and compromise. Also dont rush into marriage. Live with a girl for two years at least before tying the knot
 

MajorStyles

Kingfisher
No More Mr. Soy Boy said:
BlastbeatCasanova said:
At 30 most of a woman’s eggs are gone
People throw that sentence a lot here and it sounds scary when it is put like that but in fact most eggs are already gone when a female is born since as a fetus in early development they have about 6 million and at birth about a million, at puberty 400 000 - 300 000.

So how much does it actually say?
I second your analysis here, NMMSB. My wife had two children, at 35 and 39 respectively (both born healthy, knock on wood); we had both those children on our first attempt at pregnancy. My brother’s wife also had two children in her mid to late 30s. Plus, I know countless married friends with wives that had children in their thirties. Moreover, I don’t know any of these children to be autistic. My personal experience, as well as the experience of countless people around me, tells me that the “women are infertile are 30” perspective is fallacious.

The bigger problem is usually the disgusting personality of a woman after 30. In the West, most women after 30 are already feminist foot soldiers with a hostile attitude towards nurturing a man; therefore, they have nothing to offer. Moreover, in most poor countries, a woman after 30 has already procreated multiple times. So she has her little tykes in tow.

So younger women are better in the sense that they are less likely to be brainswashed (percentage wise at least). Also, their bodies and faces are almost always more attractive than they will be in their 30s, 40s, etc. (However, if a man does not find a woman over 30 to be attractive, then he will never be happily married since his prospective wife will eventually reach that age).
 

Chili Mac

Newbie
My wife is four years older than I am and is an intelligent, capable woman. We were 27 and 31 when we tied the knot, after dating for six months and living together for slightly less than three years. We have been married for 26 years, not all smooth ones, so I think I am well-versed in the advantages and pitfalls of marrying someone slightly older.

- With a few years more maturity, you're looking at someone who has figured out some of her personal issues and picked up some other issues. She will have had previous serious relationships, which had issues and didn't work out. Part of her unconscious will try to recreate those flawed previous relationships. Be aware of such patterns and do not tolerate them. If you don't address that sort of behavior, it will eventually assert itself again and cause problems for you.

- You will have less time to get your life in order if you want to start a family. My wife and I would have liked to have more time to pay our debts before having kids, but that would introduce the risk that we wouldn't be able to have kids, or that we would be raising kids in our late 50s.

- I also don't recommend living together as we did. We had conflicts that hadn't been addressed, but we were living together and it was easier to continue than to split up or to address the issues. Date long enough to know what you're getting into, and then get married. Don't just shack up when you haven't been together more than a few months.
 
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