How do you Navigate Sensitive Truth Conversations with Friends and Family?

paternos

paternos

Pelican
Catholic
Hello everyone, I'd appreciate your insights on a subject that's been on my mind.

Over the past few years, my understanding of Truth has evolved considerably. This transformation has been deeply influenced by my journey with Christ, which has reshaped my perspective on what's true and false.

For many of my friends, my decision to follow Christ is perplexing. Some view it with skepticism, associating it with negative stereotypes about priests.

Furthermore, my views on historical truths have evolved. I've come to question the narratives surrounding the mass extermination of Jews, the moon landing, the existence of nuclear weapons, and the authenticity of the Cold War. For instance, I think the holocaust is atrocity propaganda to restrain Germany post-war, the moon landing was staged to showcase the progress of modern society, nuclear weapons were a tool to promote global disarmament, and the Cold War was a fabricated conflict to unify a war-torn Europe and similar for the USSR.

Whenever I bring up topics like the Holocaust, I often encounter strong reactions. Some question if I'm leaning towards extremist views. If I'm a conspiracy thinker. A Nazi.

I believe it's challenging for many to fathom that leaders might propagate such expansive deceptions. Questions arise, like, "Are the exhibits in Holocaust museums then all fabricated?"

I always strive to respect others' beliefs and never force my views upon anyone. Yet, discussing politics or global events inevitably brings up these subjects. I've noticed that certain narratives are so deeply ingrained in our collective consciousness that they trigger intense emotions, sometimes even anger.

How do you navigate conversations like these? As I think many of you, must encounter similar challenges. Do you speak openly on your beliefs? Especially the sensitive topics.
 
paternos said:
Hello everyone, I'd appreciate your insights on a subject that's been on my mind.

Over the past few years, my understanding of Truth has evolved considerably. This transformation has been deeply influenced by my journey with Christ, which has reshaped my perspective on what's true and false.

For many of my friends, my decision to follow Christ is perplexing. Some view it with skepticism, associating it with negative stereotypes about priests.

Furthermore, my views on historical truths have evolved. I've come to question the narratives surrounding the mass extermination of Jews, the moon landing, the existence of nuclear weapons, and the authenticity of the Cold War. For instance, I think the holocaust is atrocity propaganda to restrain Germany post-war, the moon landing was staged to showcase the progress of modern society, nuclear weapons were a tool to promote global disarmament, and the Cold War was a fabricated conflict to unify a war-torn Europe and similar for the USSR.

Whenever I bring up topics like the Holocaust, I often encounter strong reactions. Some question if I'm leaning towards extremist views. If I'm a conspiracy thinker. A Nazi.

I believe it's challenging for many to fathom that leaders might propagate such expansive deceptions. Questions arise, like, "Are the exhibits in Holocaust museums then all fabricated?"

I always strive to respect others' beliefs and never force my views upon anyone. Yet, discussing politics or global events inevitably brings up these subjects. I've noticed that certain narratives are so deeply ingrained in our collective consciousness that they trigger intense emotions, sometimes even anger.

How do you navigate conversations like these? As I think many of you, must encounter similar challenges. Do you speak openly on your beliefs? Especially the sensitive topics.
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Interesting to read!

I admit that I speak only of this stuff with people I am very close with such as my wife,mother, father, a few cousins etc. My wife likes to hear about it all, majority of my family think I'm a bit crazy but it usually ends up in a light hearted debate.

I will mention things along these lines as well to other people who I know can handle this kind of talk and won't go hysterical. This number is small and I'd need to know them well enough

I don't bother with most. I need to take my own advice but you're better off praying for them rather than getting into heated discussions with them
 
My experience is the same as the previous posters. I censor myself pretty sharply depending on my surroundings. I do meet other people that see things the same way, but the vast majority of normies would be beyond shocked to hear me say the kinds of things I post here.

I tailor what I say to suit the audience I'm around.
 
If you have children of an understandable age, just drop a seed or two for starters then let things be for a while. I was guilty of going too hard on pretty much all of the topics you mentioned and then some. My eldest son in particular, thought that I’d gone off the deep end completely and worse still, I think it pushed him away from his relationship with God. A few years later, and a lot of the things that I was trying to drive into him, he is discovering for himself (he’s got a lot of friends and the internet has got a lot of info on it!). Lo and behold, now we spend a LOT of time together having some wonderful and RESPECTFUL conversations about a variety of topics. He doesn’t see all of them the same way I see them, and nor do I see or understand them the way he sees things, but we’ve both come a long, long way. Funny thing is, looking back I don’t think I would change a thing if I could, the learning process was invaluable.
 
Holocaust denial is an opinion rooted in passion. Most people, including Jews, believe it happened, and it’s not something people think about. Most adult human interaction consists of feigning concern or interest and presenting an image, while the interaction itself is primarily about self-entertainment or personal goals. It’s mostly fake. Some people are storytellers; you have people who like to narrate their day-to-day. These people will go home and tell their wives about you, but they don’t actually altruistically care. Most people are preoccupied with themselves and their inner voice. So when people say we're "made" to feel guilty about the holocaust, that is not true. The average person feigns guilt if he feels it's socially necessary, but if he's actually overcome by it, then he’s a weakling by nature who has bigger problems to worry about. He’s also a liability for the rest of us.

The problem with the holocaust is that it became ideological. There are many people who use the holocaust as an argument and an emotional appeal against right-wing politics. The issue here is that they’re not categorically wrong in their positions. So the holocaust not happening doesn’t weaken their argument as much as you think. Right-wing politics are inherently unfair. When you say "Germany for Germans", it makes sense, but it’s an antagonistic position, very contradictory to egalitarianism. Antagonism breeds conflict. If Christians were actually Christians, they would be antagonistic. It’s a real Catch-22. Conflict is necessary, but conflict is undesirable.

When we started as a society worshipping the egalitarian model, all the interpersonal conflict went below the surface. This also facilitated the transfer of power to rabid leftists and others. You see, it’s not the fact that conflict no longer exists in egalitarian society; conflict will always exist; it’s that whenever we encounter conflict now, we hope it can be diffused or resolved by considering the position of the opposing party, conceding, or "meeting them half way". There is this false hope that if we continue diffusing all conflicts, we can reach a state that will make the proliferation of conflict harder. The egalitarian model misunderstands human nature and why conflict arises in the first place. Egalitarianism hates human differences because that is where conflict can always be found. Egalitarianism posits that human beings are inherently empathetic by nature and that all conflict arises from some sort of injustice, unfairness, or unfulfillment. Most people believe conflict is some kind of chain reaction that can be stopped by breaking a link in the chain. They're not wrong; they just don't see the whole picture.

So when you're trying to red pill people, what you're truly trying to do is make them question egalitarianism. Making them question the Holocaust is a fool's errand. There's no reason anyone should be passionate about Holocaust denial; the best position is indifference, so it can fade into oblivion. So the minute you try to "prove" something, people already feel like there's a selfish agenda at play. A question will always remain in their minds: Why do you care?

The problem with the right wing is that human beings don't have a frame of reference. People know what they know. They also don't know what they want. So things have to be forced on people before they say something is good. If you wish for people to adopt a particular right-wing position, you have to demonstrate that it's in their interest to do so. Most people, paradoxically, will not do something in their own self-interest unless they get affirmation from the larger society. Human interaction has a strong component of imposing your will, but in order for someone to impose their will, they have to feel like there's a chance of success. Power dynamics are essential to politics and interpersonal interaction. Human beings are skittish creatures. So right-wing politics is really a waiting game for strong men to lead the way. Unfortunately, even if we have the "right wing" in charge, the cycle will always continue. Conflict cannot always be contained or managed; it can spiral into something ugly. This is another reason why God always takes precedence. Utopian ideals are unachievable.

As for your friends and teaching them the Bible or what have you, the Bible is not something that can be taught. It's something that can be shared. The only way to share something is for the other person to be willing to receive it. So preaching will always be a question of worthiness. Any fool can quote Bible verses, but not everyone can elicit respect from other people.

At the end of the day, we don't actually have friends. We have people we share experiences with; sometimes those things bond us, sometimes they don't. For something to live, it has to be constantly nurtured with the breath of life. If your friends are not Christians, then by definition, the experiences you're sharing with them are very secular in nature. Red-pilling parents is again a question of respect. Most parents don't respect their kids. One of the biggest challenges a person faces in life is proving to a parent that they're worthy of respect. Red-pilling your wife should be the easiest. Your wife is supposed to share the same existence as you. If she disagrees with your belief system, it just shows that the presentation and the fruits of your belief system are flawed. Who wants to follow someone who is unsure, a hypocrite, or fails in the things he does?
 
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It was hard in my first couple years. Now that pretty much everyone I'm close to knows where I stand, I don't bring it up much unless asked. For the most part, it's meant loss of relationships. I don't end them, we just stopped having anything in common. If they are interested in hearing the gospel, they can reach out and I'm happy to chat. As for "conspiracy" stuff, I don't mention it too much either, but also will if asked. It's interesting to me Christians who don't really "believe" in conspiracies when Satan is literally conspiring to take over the world, and will someday. A spiritual war between good and evil is central to the Bible, and it is beyond naive to think that wouldn't spill out into the realm of flesh and blood.
 
Thank you all for your thoughtful responses. It's reassuring to know that I'm not alone in these sentiments.

I'd like to highlight some insights from your comments:

@prisonplanet For the most part, it's meant loss of relationships. I don't end them, we just stopped having anything in common.
This is a hard truth, for myself at least, a sad one, I just notice I have less in common with some old friends, even though I still love these guys, many see me as the womanizer, the hedonist, and we shared that for a long time. Slowly finding out how these relationships can evolve, as people are changing as well.
@Sandalwood Peak If your friends are not Christians, then by definition, the experiences you're sharing with them are very secular in nature. I've personally felt this disconnect and miss the spiritual dimension in these relationships. This shift has led me to find more joy in genuine conversations during walks and simpler moments rather than extravagant outings. Priorities seem to be shifting from career and worldly ambitions to being content with a simpler life.
@Gazza I was guilty of going too hard on pretty much all of the topics you mentioned and then some. My eldest son in particular, thought that I’d gone off the deep end completely and worse still, I think it pushed him away from his relationship with God. Thank you for your honesty, and I share this feeling. Sometimes I'm frustrated and feel misunderstood, and I go to hard to feel heard and it might even push people from the truth. It took me years to slowly allow other opinions, for years I made fun of the "Jehova's Witnesses" and now when I see them, I respect them, not my style, but they are there, on the streets speaking about truth as they understand it, mocked by the 99%.
@Roosh If they don't want the truth, leave them alone. I agree that if someone isn't receptive to the truth, it's best to respect their choice and not force it upon them.
@Dr. Van Nostrand I will mention things along these lines as well to other people who I know can handle this kind of talk and won't go hysterical. This number is small and I'd need to know them well enough.
And that's true as well, need to be sensitive in this.

Reflecting on these insights, it becomes clear that truth holds immense power. It's like acknowledging the elephant in the room that has been ignored for a long time. When delivered with care and the right tone, the truth brings a sense of joy and fulfillment, as it resonates with the longing in our hearts. However, if shared at an inappropriate moment, it can be disruptive and drive us apart, as it challenges deeply rooted beliefs.

During a recent conversation with a missionary priest from Southern America who has been working in our community for a couple of years, I noticed a sense of relief as we discussed the topic of sin. Out of curiosity, I asked him about this, and he explained that he normally chooses to speak about "things you didn't do so well" or "things you could have done better" instead of emphasizing the concept of sin. He believes that this approach is gentler and less hurtful to the people he is trying to guide.

This anecdote underscores the challenge that many people face in finding a balance between maintaining their spiritual connections and avoiding the superficiality that can consume them. It is essential to strike the right balance, staying connected while not allowing ourselves to be dragged down by the soul-crushing nature of superficial interactions.

Thank you all for sharing your perspectives and experiences. It's good to learn from each of you.
 
Nothing you wrote in your post can be labeled as 'truth' just the truth according to you and frankly much of it delusional like nuclear weapons don't exist. Instead of worrying about relationships, I suggest you get your mind right. You seem like the type that would burn people at the stake.
 
paternos said:
This is a hard truth, for myself at least, a sad one, I just notice I have less in common with some old friends, even though I still love these guys, many see me as the womanizer, the hedonist, and we shared that for a long time. Slowly finding out how these relationships can evolve, as people are changing as well.
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This one hits home for me. Old friends see me as the old me, but the old man is dying. The "womanizer/hedonist", the drunkard, the foul joker, etc. What brought us together was sin, and now that I've started a process of turning away from these evil patterns, the brotherhood bond is broken.

What's even worse is this process with family. I used to be the 'demon' in my family, exhibiting negative influence and ideas upon others. The 'funny' brother, the 'wild and crazy' son, the 'bad' nephew or cousin or whatever insidious label I had for my character that was revealed to others and formed part of our relationship. There's an expectation for that discarded mask to be worn perpetually.

Now that it's gone, even being around them I can tell they yearn for the old me. They offer me beer, knowing I'm an alcoholic. They try to get me to question my faith, knowing that it has made me a better person and brought me closer to God and Truth. They try to get me to accept ideologies like homosexuality, of which they know is diametrically opposed to Orthodox ethos.

For reasons as such, I cannot be around them as often, if at all, at least at this early stage in my theosis.
 
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