TheBlackNarwhal
Woodpecker
Support Zimmerman: You're a racist.
Support Martin: White guilt.
No-win scenario.
Support Martin: White guilt.
No-win scenario.
How does a white person in North America prove that they aren't racist? (serious)
- Thread starter LeBeau
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Like Scorpion, I believe there is nothing you can do to prove you aren't racist.
Whether you believe that or not, I think what you really are trying to accomplish here is to avoid the harm that comes from being called or seen as a racist. In the US, this is hard to do.
Here's my advice:
1. Don't talk about race issues with members of other races unless they talk about those issues first.
2. If the members of the other race stop being reasonable in said conversation, stop talking about race with them (or stop talking to them if they won't shut up about it).
3. Don't apologize for being white or express guilt on behalf of other white people who commit crimes against other races.
4. Find (white) friends who feel the same way you do.
5. Enjoy your life as normal.
Wald
P.S. I try not to talk about race anywhere on the internet - no matter how good your logic, it never ends well. Better to pick other battles than waste your energy on ones over race.
Whether you believe that or not, I think what you really are trying to accomplish here is to avoid the harm that comes from being called or seen as a racist. In the US, this is hard to do.
Here's my advice:
1. Don't talk about race issues with members of other races unless they talk about those issues first.
2. If the members of the other race stop being reasonable in said conversation, stop talking about race with them (or stop talking to them if they won't shut up about it).
3. Don't apologize for being white or express guilt on behalf of other white people who commit crimes against other races.
4. Find (white) friends who feel the same way you do.
5. Enjoy your life as normal.
Wald
P.S. I try not to talk about race anywhere on the internet - no matter how good your logic, it never ends well. Better to pick other battles than waste your energy on ones over race.
I was going to ignore this thread but I'll give a terse but serious answer.
Asking someone to prove they aren't a racist is like asking someone to prove they aren't an asshole. It's impossible to ever prove such things so it's worthless to even ask. I don't believe there's such a thing as a 100% racism free person. There are of course many people who have low enough levels of racist sentiment that they can tolerate and live in harmony with other races. Just like all women have some bitch in them somewhere, even the sweet ones, and it will come out if you know them long enough.
The main problem with racism though isn't the occasional guy that gives a hard glance at an interracial couple, it's the institutional racism which will punish some in the justice system more harshly than others, for example.
I would never ask a white to prove they are not racist to me as I don't really care. If they're actually hanging with me and treat me with respect I'll leave it at that.
Asking someone to prove they aren't a racist is like asking someone to prove they aren't an asshole. It's impossible to ever prove such things so it's worthless to even ask. I don't believe there's such a thing as a 100% racism free person. There are of course many people who have low enough levels of racist sentiment that they can tolerate and live in harmony with other races. Just like all women have some bitch in them somewhere, even the sweet ones, and it will come out if you know them long enough.
The main problem with racism though isn't the occasional guy that gives a hard glance at an interracial couple, it's the institutional racism which will punish some in the justice system more harshly than others, for example.
I would never ask a white to prove they are not racist to me as I don't really care. If they're actually hanging with me and treat me with respect I'll leave it at that.
In general, you can't prove a negative. For instance, there may be a pink unicorn on the other side of the moon.
But if you flew up there in a spaceship and saw no unicorn, that doesn't mean anything. Tomorrow there might be.
But if you flew up there in a spaceship and saw no unicorn, that doesn't mean anything. Tomorrow there might be.
Architekt
Ostrich
Citlalli said:
Feminists claim that wolf whistles are equivalent to rape. Doesn't make it so.
Besides that, the point of this thread is not whether racism exists or not, it's about the plausibility of deflecting unjust accusations made towards you.
@Lebeau: Is that the documentary which talks about the privatisation of prison and encouraging lower class crime through music to line the pockets of the rich?
How could you prove to me that you're not a witch?
Any demonstration you proffer that you're not a racist will not be accepted by someone who has gone so far as to call you a racist. In fact, they may even retort with something like "that's exactly what a racist would say to claim that they're not racist.
Absence of evidence of being a racist will not be accepted as evidence of absence of racism.
When a girl accuses you of being a player, do you start stammering "Ah um no I'm uh definitely not a player I just got out of a three-year relationship and before that I went out with a girl for six months in fact our first date was at her favorite rest--"
Of course not.
You should handle and dismiss accusations of racism the same way.
Agree and amplify: "Yeah sooo racist, just got out of the Klansmen rally. You should had came, they had great hor d'oeuvres."
If you're a white guy, PC-fascists and their ilk will always try and pin you between the rock and a hard place--you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.
For example, a cultural studies class I took in college pointed to high White Male/Asian Female coupling rates as proof that white men think of Asian women as submissive sexual objects, and simultaneously pointed to low White Male/Black Female coupling rates as proof that white men hated black people.
The same class explained that white America promulgated Asian overachievement as a way to subjugate and discourage blacks--white people wanted Asian people to make more money and get into better colleges in order to put down blacks--the buzzword in the literature for it was "racial stratification," the "stratification" term lifted from geology.
When someone calls you a name in a discussion, it's an ad hominem to try and attack your character and motives instead of addressing the substance of your words.
There is a strong inverse correlation between how quickly someone accuses you of being a racist, misogynist, sexist, Keynesianist, Bayesianist, etc. and their strength of argument.
Any demonstration you proffer that you're not a racist will not be accepted by someone who has gone so far as to call you a racist. In fact, they may even retort with something like "that's exactly what a racist would say to claim that they're not racist.
Absence of evidence of being a racist will not be accepted as evidence of absence of racism.
When a girl accuses you of being a player, do you start stammering "Ah um no I'm uh definitely not a player I just got out of a three-year relationship and before that I went out with a girl for six months in fact our first date was at her favorite rest--"
Of course not.
You should handle and dismiss accusations of racism the same way.
Agree and amplify: "Yeah sooo racist, just got out of the Klansmen rally. You should had came, they had great hor d'oeuvres."
If you're a white guy, PC-fascists and their ilk will always try and pin you between the rock and a hard place--you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.
For example, a cultural studies class I took in college pointed to high White Male/Asian Female coupling rates as proof that white men think of Asian women as submissive sexual objects, and simultaneously pointed to low White Male/Black Female coupling rates as proof that white men hated black people.
The same class explained that white America promulgated Asian overachievement as a way to subjugate and discourage blacks--white people wanted Asian people to make more money and get into better colleges in order to put down blacks--the buzzword in the literature for it was "racial stratification," the "stratification" term lifted from geology.
When someone calls you a name in a discussion, it's an ad hominem to try and attack your character and motives instead of addressing the substance of your words.
There is a strong inverse correlation between how quickly someone accuses you of being a racist, misogynist, sexist, Keynesianist, Bayesianist, etc. and their strength of argument.
It is damn-near impossible to not be labeled a racist because one may say something that they "think" is a valid statement, but the receiver can interpret that statement based on THEIR past experiences that the sender usually has no idea about. Throw in assumption from just one of the sender/receiver (or both) and there is your infinite ways to be labeled a racist by almost doing nothing.
That is why you really cannot prove that you are not racist.
That is why you really cannot prove that you are not racist.
By asking the question you've already lost. You've given in to the frame of the shit-stirring media and political agitators. You've conceded (at least) the following assumptions:
1. The definition of racism
2. That racism is always blameworthy
3. That you are guilty until proven innocent
None of those are valid assumptions. Discrimination and stereotyping as a consequence of racism are often blameworthy, but those details matter and remain hidden when you accept the troll's assumptions.
Adria Richards is an idiot, but there are lots of people who believe her. Where this idea might come from is that discrimination comes from a position of power. Courts in the US use this concept to help distinguish laws that actually violate the Equal Protection clause from laws that some people might merely dislike. Generally, in a democracy, if you don't like the law then you change the law. But a group without political power and subject to discrimination may unable to use legislative channels to effect change. This is known as a suspect class. What happens when a law might be discriminatory towards a suspect class is that the court will apply strict scrutiny, which basically means that the State needs to have a really fucking good reason for the law or else the court will strike it down. This does not mean other laws cannot also be discriminatory towards people not in a suspect class, it just means that the court will only strike them down if the State can't provide any valid reason (aka "rational basis") for them.
This makes a lot of sense, however it failed to anticipate the victimology that would become so prevalent as various minority groups (women, gays, etc.) scramble to gain suspect classification and preferential treatment in equal protection cases. Another unfortunate side effect is people like Adria Richards and whoever was responsible for her education who don't understand the subtleties of the courts and law and treat it like a gospel.
This thread proves:
A) We have a lot of racists on these boards
B) Racists are beta
C) You just realized you were both A & B
or
D) Gmac doesn't give a fuck about stupid conversations like these and neither should you, so take my advice: shut the fuck up and stop replying to pointless threads.
A) We have a lot of racists on these boards
B) Racists are beta
C) You just realized you were both A & B
or
D) Gmac doesn't give a fuck about stupid conversations like these and neither should you, so take my advice: shut the fuck up and stop replying to pointless threads.
You know how gays use this wonderful excuse about homosexuality not being a choice?
Funny thing is that being white is treated as your guilt while it is definately much less your choice then being gay.
A:You are white!
B: It's not my choice!
A:You are racist!
B: It's not my choice!
A:You are thin!
B:It's not my choice!
A:You are a mysogynist!
B:It's not my choice!
Even baby murderers today get sympathy by claiming they had no choice. You should start using this card to make it sound like you are a victim. It's both passively liberal and alpha unapologetic at the same time.
Funny thing is that being white is treated as your guilt while it is definately much less your choice then being gay.
A:You are white!
B: It's not my choice!
A:You are racist!
B: It's not my choice!
A:You are thin!
B:It's not my choice!
A:You are a mysogynist!
B:It's not my choice!
Even baby murderers today get sympathy by claiming they had no choice. You should start using this card to make it sound like you are a victim. It's both passively liberal and alpha unapologetic at the same time.
The idea that one cannot prove themselves as a racist is ridiculous. It just proves the term is meaningless, much like the term rape has been rendered meaningless.
For me, racism has a clear and objective definition that can be defined within a moral framework. It is as follows:
A racist is someone who denies another person their basic rights on account of their race.
Thus, saying black people are smelly isn't racist. It's bigoted, rude, and offensive as hell, but it's not racist.
Saying blacks should be taxed at a higher rate than whites, however, is racist.
Saying blacks have low IQ's on average is not racist. Again, it's rude, mean-spirited, generally pointless to say and highly inflamatory, but it's not racist.
Saying blacks should not be allowed to vote, however, is racist.
Racism is an old term that goes back to the slave days of when there were many whites who truly believed blacks were not people and deserved no rights as such. Those were old-school racists.
There are no more true racists today, but liberals like the power of using blacks to terrorize conservative whites into politically correct fear so they continue to use the word racist dishonestly and against it's original meaning.
Racism has become a witch hunt word, but if you remember what the true meaning of racism is, you can proudly declare yourself to anyone that you are not even remotely racist.
For me, racism has a clear and objective definition that can be defined within a moral framework. It is as follows:
A racist is someone who denies another person their basic rights on account of their race.
Thus, saying black people are smelly isn't racist. It's bigoted, rude, and offensive as hell, but it's not racist.
Saying blacks should be taxed at a higher rate than whites, however, is racist.
Saying blacks have low IQ's on average is not racist. Again, it's rude, mean-spirited, generally pointless to say and highly inflamatory, but it's not racist.
Saying blacks should not be allowed to vote, however, is racist.
Racism is an old term that goes back to the slave days of when there were many whites who truly believed blacks were not people and deserved no rights as such. Those were old-school racists.
There are no more true racists today, but liberals like the power of using blacks to terrorize conservative whites into politically correct fear so they continue to use the word racist dishonestly and against it's original meaning.
Racism has become a witch hunt word, but if you remember what the true meaning of racism is, you can proudly declare yourself to anyone that you are not even remotely racist.
Architekt
Ostrich
j r said:
Generalisations aren't the issue. Is it racist to say that many Africans have dark skin? No. That's just an observation. Is it racist to say that Europeans usually have light skin? No. That's just an observation. Is it racist to assume that somebody is going to be racist, based on their race? Yes. That's the issue here - the blame is being deflected away from actual racism to include a broad spectrum of people who don't have any kind of prejudice to detract attention from people who are guilty of it but like to claim they're above it. Similar to the tactic feminists use when pulling the sexism card
A War You Cannot Win
Kingfisher
Show them your ethnically diverse 'human centipede' creation in your basement.
All arguments about an -ism or the like are simple shit tests. Agree and amplify the shit out of it and you'll leave looking in tact.
Don't forget, "Cool story bro" is an excellent defuser of any baiting for a race, gender, class, debate.
Don't forget, "Cool story bro" is an excellent defuser of any baiting for a race, gender, class, debate.
Architekt said:
Yeah I'm not sure why Citlalli was trying to insinuate things there, at least you get it.
I definitely care about those existing social issues, but this is a hypothetical discussion, not a mutually exclusive one.
In regards to the doc, it's more so focused on the experiences of a lot of the biggest known emcees growing up during the crack epidemic during the 80's, and how this shaped hip hop as we know it. They also talk about the war on drugs and it ends with Obama signing the Fair Sentencing Act of 2010.
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