How does a white person in North America prove that they aren't racist? (serious)

[Blaster]

To claim they're all the same is lazy and to anyone observing from outside the U.S - pretty weird. What you described as being Hispanic, the Latin music and all that stuff could equally be applied to Spaniards, and I think Spaniards would be pretty offended if you said they weren't white!

Lazy, or practical? The point isn't to avoid offending people the point is to have a term to describe relevant sub-categories of the population. The term is used both by self-identified members of the population and those who use the classification.

Legitimate European Spanish diaspora in the US is a tiny fraction of the Latin American presence (80k vs 52 million). Odds of Spaniards gathering in sufficient numbers to be mistaken for Latin Americans is very slim. And certainly, the closer you look the more you'll find different patterns in the various Hispanic subgroups (starting with the obvious, like Brazilians not even speaking Spanish).

 

[soup]

The only way to prove that you aren't a racist is to have sex with her:

 

[Giovonny]

How did the different races form?

Did we all start off as the same race?

Are we all related?

I don't think anyone has the answers to these questions..?

 

[Samseau]

How did the different races form?

Did we all start off as the same race?

Are we all related?

I don't think anyone has the answers to these questions..?

Does anyone else think it's weird how we classify each other by race even though it's possible to change your lineage from white to black or black to white in just 2 generations?

ex. 1:

Black person + white person = mulatto
Mulatto + white person = white kids

ex. 2:

black person + white person = mulatto
Mulatto + black person = black kids

Why do people classify each other by something so malleable?

 

[Teedub]

Legitimate European Spanish diaspora in the US is a tiny fraction of the Latin American presence (80k vs 52 million). Odds of Spaniards gathering in sufficient numbers to be mistaken for Latin Americans is very slim. And certainly, the closer you look the more you'll find different patterns in the various Hispanic subgroups (starting with the obvious, like Brazilians not even speaking Spanish).

Yeah, but what about white Latin Americans? Your typical Argentinian would be pretty offended and also confused if you said "Oh, you're not white, you're Latino" or "Hispanic". I'm not sure about white Mexicans, but surely Guillermo Del Toro is seen as white though right?

 

[Giovonny]

Does anyone else think it's weird how we classify each other by race even though it's possible to change your lineage from white to black or black to white in just 2 generations?

Yes, most people don't think about this stuff.

You have a unique perspective because you are bi-racial.

Being "mixed" is a different category all together.

*****

My race is American.

 

[Samseau]

Legitimate European Spanish diaspora in the US is a tiny fraction of the Latin American presence (80k vs 52 million). Odds of Spaniards gathering in sufficient numbers to be mistaken for Latin Americans is very slim. And certainly, the closer you look the more you'll find different patterns in the various Hispanic subgroups (starting with the obvious, like Brazilians not even speaking Spanish).

Yeah, but what about white Latin Americans? Your typical Argentinian would be pretty offended and also confused if you said "Oh, you're not white, you're Latino" or "Hispanic". I'm not sure about white Mexicans, but surely Guillermo Del Toro is seen as white though right?

And a white Argentinian would call an American a gringo, even though the American is just as white as the Argentinian. What's your point?

 

[Blaster]

How did the different races form?

Race as the genetic concept? Races are formed by divergent evolution.

If you divide up a species into two separate populations, prevent them from interbreeding, and subject them to different environmental pressures, they will evolve differently.

Did we all start off as the same race?

Humans in general did not all start off as the same race, but many races of humans have probably died out or evolved into new ones.

Are we all related?

In one sense, yes. The most recent common human ancestors to modern humans are estimated to have lived between 200,000 and 500,000 years ago.

Humans existed before them, but their DNA traces have disappeared. And before them, non-human hominids existed, and chimps before that.

 

[Teedub]

Relevant:



Along with some top comments. I do hesitate to do this as I feel like a race troll on behalf of white Latin Americans in the U.S!

White Latin/Hispanic people will be considered 'white' within a decade or so. It happened with the Italians and even the catholic Irish! 'White' is more cultural in the States than it is anywhere else. For example, if you called a white Argentinian a 'Latino' he would't have a clue what that meant. They see themselves as European, because culturally and genetically - they are.

...and, perhaps more scathingly:

People who say Spaniards are not Hispanic because they are not from Latin America need to be told the truth. Because they believe in a big lie. They equate Hispanic with Amerindian lands and not Hispania, a.k.a. Spain? Stupid, stupid, stupid. The U.S. needs to fix it's education. And then I even here Americans say shit like "Oh, Pitbull is not white, he's Cuban" as if Cuban is a race. That's ignorant. Cubans can be white or black or mulatto. The U.S. needs this education badly.

I'm not suggesting, of course, that you guys think Cuban is a race, but it is a train of thought I've found on the forum.

 

[Teedub]

And a white Argentinian would call an American a gringo, even though the American is just as white as the Argentinian. What's your point?

Gringo just means foreigner, it isn't a racial categorization. It's completely different to the Hispanic thing where George Lopez and Ricky Martin are deemed the same race!

 

[Blaster]

Legitimate European Spanish diaspora in the US is a tiny fraction of the Latin American presence (80k vs 52 million). Odds of Spaniards gathering in sufficient numbers to be mistaken for Latin Americans is very slim. And certainly, the closer you look the more you'll find different patterns in the various Hispanic subgroups (starting with the obvious, like Brazilians not even speaking Spanish).

Yeah, but what about white Latin Americans? Your typical Argentinian would be pretty offended and also confused if you said "Oh, you're not white, you're Latino" or "Hispanic". I'm not sure about white Mexicans, but surely Guillermo Del Toro is seen as white though right?

White Latin Americans like Guillermo Del Toro are generally accepted as both.

Most of the time, you will not see people in the US saying "you're not this, you're that". Membership in the umbrella categories (Black, Hispanic, and Asian-Pacific-Islander) is quasi-voluntary. Do you identify as a member? Does that group accept you? Is your appearance and outward expression a close enough match to the majority perception?

If you are white, speak fluent English, and reject identification as a Latin American, most people in the US will simply shrug and say 'OK sure.'

 

[Teedub]

They shouldn't have to reject identification though should they? Surely, as it would be unfair. You can be BOTH Latin American AND white. It seems like the WASP elite sort of 'closed the books' as the mafia would say, on to who is 'white' and who isn't. Like that comment in the Pitbull video I posted above said, even Irish people weren't considered 'white' because they were catholic. I'm sorry to bang on about it, but as a European and non-American I just find it rather confusing and frustrating. Example being, the character of Tony Montana is seen as a non-white person, yet he was played by an actor everyone would say is white. Therefore, race (for white's and white hispanics) must be strictly cultural in America and not really based on science, or even skin colour - as Pacino's skin in real life is the same as Montana's! This is a crazy thread and I'm not invested in it, just trying to air my points!

 

[Blaster]

Relevant:



Along with some top comments. I do hesitate to do this as I feel like a race troll on behalf of white Latin Americans in the U.S!

White Latin/Hispanic people will be considered 'white' within a decade or so. It happened with the Italians and even the catholic Irish! 'White' is more cultural in the States than it is anywhere else. For example, if you called a white Argentinian a 'Latino' he would't have a clue what that meant. They see themselves as European, because culturally and genetically - they are.

...and, perhaps more scathingly:

People who say Spaniards are not Hispanic because they are not from Latin America need to be told the truth. Because they believe in a big lie. They equate Hispanic with Amerindian lands and not Hispania, a.k.a. Spain? Stupid, stupid, stupid. The U.S. needs to fix it's education. And then I even here Americans say shit like "Oh, Pitbull is not white, he's Cuban" as if Cuban is a race. That's ignorant. Cubans can be white or black or mulatto. The U.S. needs this education badly.

I'm not suggesting, of course, that you guys think Cuban is a race, but it is a train of thought I've found on the forum.

It's true. Americans tend not to share the European preoccupation with race and racial differences.

Which doesn't bother me at all. In a nation full of country of origin (eg Cuba) tends to say a lot more about someone than their racial identity.

 

[Teedub]

^ Americans care MUCH more about race than Europeans, at least in the past few decades. It dominates the media there, it isn't mentioned here, well, at least not in Britain.

 

[Blaster]

They shouldn't have to reject identification though should they? Surely, as it would be unfair. You can be BOTH Latin American AND white. It seems like the WASP elite sort of 'closed the books' as the mafia would say, on to who is 'white' and who isn't. Like that comment in the Pitbull video I posted above said, even Irish people weren't considered 'white' because they were catholic. I'm sorry to bang on about it, but as a European and non-American I just find it rather confusing and frustrating. Example being, the character of Tony Montana is seen as a non-white person, yet he was played by an actor everyone would say is white.

Note: The WASP elite is not most of America.

I don't know what to predict as far as Latin American assimilation into white culture. I know for a fact that individuals are able to do it, but the big question is whether the US can absorb such huge numbers of immigrants, especially given the current state of the government and economy.

Therefore, race (for white's and white hispanics) must be strictly cultural in America and not really based on science, or even skin colour - as Pacino's skin in real life is the same as Montana's!

It's not "strictly cultural" but probably much more cultural than in other parts of the world. In a country of immigrants, country of origin tends to matter a lot more than genetic markers.

 

[Teedub]

^ For me, it's not a question of genetics, or "genetic markers" - it's a 'look test'. Pitbull, for example looks white - he's white. George Lopez looks primarily Native, with a bit of Euro - Mestizo. Even though he's probably 70% Native, and some mestizos are the other way round. I mean, I come from a country that sees Oscar De La Hoya as probably an 'exotic' white person, whereas that probably seems insane from a North American point of view, so we're not going to agree on everything, but like I said in your rep point, this is a good debate and there's no heat or anger, just varying points.

I just found this video. It's very pro-white and a bit weird, but it sums up my point nevertheless:



I think my main point of frustration is the separation, I mean, Cameron DIAZ is 'Spanish' but she's white and nobody would contest it, but Jennifer Lopez is seen as something else, despite all her features being Caucasian. She wouldn't look out of place in Italy, Southern France, Spain or anywhere like that.

 

[Blaster]

^ Americans care MUCH more about race than Europeans, at least in the past few decades. It dominates the media there, it isn't mentioned here, well, at least not in Britain.

Yes, but only "race" in the terms I'm trying to explain, which is biased towards cultural and "country-of-origin" factors.

Certain media notwithstanding, though-- the American media does have an obsession with race and race trolling, that I will admit.

 

[Blaster]

Jennifer Lopez is seen as something else, despite all her features being Caucasian.

Jennifer Lopez actively plays up her association with Latin America. She could identify as white (or both) if she wanted to.

For me, it's not a question of genetics, or "genetic markers" - it's a 'look test'.

For me, it's an extension of looks into language/behavior/mannerisms/dress/preferences and other cultural aspects that tend to correlate strongly within the population.

 

[Teedub]

^ I think a big problem, as witnessed in the George Lopez DNA thing with Alba, is that it's REALLY uncool to be white. 'White' is seen as George Bush, Josh Groban etc. The WASPy type of white, Northern European, whilst being 'Latin' is cool. To a European, this is seen as odd, but as someone who understands American culture, I get it.

I was reading a U.S published football/soccer article, and they were saying that Kaka and Messi could really inspire the 'Hispanic' population in regards to soccer. They are white dudes from South America and have about as much in common with some L.A Hispanic as I do. They're Euro in their mindset, as white South Americans (even Mestizo's and black ones to be honest) identify (in fact, ALL Brazilians do) much more with Europe than North America - And I believe football plays a HUGE part of that. It's also why Brits/French/Germans etc see South Americans as a hell of a lot less exotic than North Americans do.

 

[soup]

Who could question the racistness of a white man that ads this as a lover? If you go get yourself a fat girl from another race and walk around with her, nobody is going to say shit to you.