How does money work in relationships with Slavic women (before children)

[PixelFree]

Hi all. I've spent the last 18 months in Slavic countries and I can't get my head around this.

I am traditionally courting, currently in a relationship and want a wife and family.

Naturally, I have accepted my role as a man and will financially provide for my future wife and family. If my wife wants to work it will be 1) the second priority to raising our kids and 2) optional, up to her. I will 100% financially support my wife once we are married and also during her pregnancy and so on. The question is the courting phase after a relationship begins and before marriage/children.

I have found is most women in the Slavic world (Ukraine/Belarus/Russia) have an expectation of regular, expensive gift giving (e.g. $150 value presents, like clothing, handbags, AirPods etc) almost every two months. This is in addition to all meals, taxis, events and regular courting costs. No surprise to many I'm sure.

How does one reconcile this? Are they dark, evil money hungry monsters or is this how things should be? I know with certainty in their mind this is completely fine, very normal and what a man must do for them to feel 'loved' (support/protection).

At first my Western mind was disgusted at this idea (even the thought of paying for regular taxis to meet up was uncomfortable), but the more time I have spent here and understanding the 'under the surface' poverty and lack of earning opportunities perhaps it is *I* who is victim of Western propaganda being turned off by these 'gold diggers' that want regular gift giving to 'feel love' (support/protection).

I have been in relationships where I am 100% convinced there was genuine love and burning desire (inc. some light cooking, cleaning, true affection and waking up in the morning with her hugging me tightly), yet it's coupled with this 'you need to buy me stuff' dynamic that comes up after 2-3 months.

My understanding of the majority of Slavic relationships is very shallow - the man comes home from work, hands his whole pay check to his wife then sits on the couch drinking vodka and watching TV - the women seem to rule the nest here. It seems to be the norm and divorce rates are insane.

Other expats I'm in touch with talk of paying their girlfriends a monthly allowances of $500 per month (for e.g.), these are low SMV simps leading with money. They vigorously defend their approach, saying that 'Western men don't understand the culture here, this is the norm, I've been here for 7 years, etc'. To be honest that creeps me out, but maybe they have a point? Once a wife and kids, sure, a monthly or weekly allowance for common expenses like food and children costs (and the odd luxury or beauty service) but pre-marriage/kids to buy gadgets to 'prove' your love... yuck.

I shudder and wonder if these people are broken from what communism did to them.

I am wasting my time here, or am I in the wrong?

Maybe the answer is understanding how things worked during the pre-1950's in the West? Did a girls father support her until marriage or was it the boyfriend too? (if they didn't work or work much).

How does it work in the South America? In Asia? Are we the odd ones out here? It seems in South America finances work just the same as the Slavic world.

 

[Road2Damascus]

I don't have an answer for you but excellent questions. I am also interested in the responses. Watching the thread.

 

[7-5]

Why would you engage in a behavior you find, at best, uncomfortable during courtship?

If I'm against drinking to excess every weekend, but the dating culture where I'm at says: 'You must drink to excess every weekend to prove your manliness. That you can keep control in front of your woman even when otherwise sloppy!'
Then I don't date in that environment.

Do you really think a marriage that starts in such a way will lead you to happiness? Or even last? That the gift expectations will ever decrease?

Know the life you want, get a woman that fits into those standards.

 

[BeatUpTruck]

I guess you need to figure out how much of your value to them is based on your money. If that’s why their with you and they aren’t genuinely attracted to you then it’s necessary, but doesn’t sound like a good foundation to me

 

[Thomas More]

I guess you need to figure out how much of your value to them is based on your money. If that’s why their with you and they aren’t genuinely attracted to you then it’s necessary, but doesn’t sound like a good foundation to me

Talk to the girl. You're interested in marriage. You understand this is is what's expected by her, but you need some feedback. You're not from here, so you want to know where she's coming from.

Is she interested in marriage, and is testing your ability to provide? You can't read the situation like someone from there. If she's trying to reel you in, she needs to explain where she's coming from, and where she's at RE marriage.

Maybe she thinks you need to understand without her explaining. Let her know she should understand without you explaining what you expect.

 

[DanielH]

I don't care what their culture is, that's not the Gospel. Christians court, they don't date. There's not an expectation of presents until marriage, as the woman is under the protection of her father until then.

A marriageable (I.e., healthy body and mind) single person shouldn't need support. A single person doesn't need luxuries.

This sounds like the expectation is that you give presents (tribute) and they give sex. That's prostitution. If that's the case it's no wonder divorce rates are sky high, that's a whore and a whoremonger, who upon marriage, don't even meet the pagan or Jewish standard of marriage, let alone the Christian one. Such a state is lamentable. I would rather not be married than marry under such conditions.

 

[Острог]

Superficiality, vanity, materialism functions everywhere. They are leeching of you exactly because you are an outsider and the logic is simple: he's from the west = has money, can gold dig. I bet they set the bar lower for the local guy they might date. Personally I wouldn't put up with any of this. I see it as a very poor investment. No woman is worth this much monetarily before marriage and this does look like an exchange for sex so ask yourself how much does a professional prostitute cost. Are you being screwed? (no, I'm not advising you to use their services instead ;D)

I would support a wife so that she doesn't need to earn a living but stupid gadgets and whims... those days are gone, get a job missy.

 

[Going strong]

OP, with all due respect, you are mistaken in your main assumption. The behaviour you are describing is not normal. It's not the majority of Slavic women that are expecting you to pay for all their meals and transport costs before you even get married, or want "ipods" every other week or even month.

So, it seems to me you have not found a regular, good traditional Christian Slavic woman, if you have to spend so much money on her at this early point of the relationship. Normal single Slavic women work, by the way, and earn enough money themselves to sustain their normal costs of living. If they're still at University, their parents provide.

Don't you have a Slavic male good friend to tell you this? Does your Slavic girlfriend have an elder brother, by the way, and if so, how come the brother allows his sister to ask for money all the time like that, before even being married? It's just not a regular situation.

Also... Is (are) this woman (these women) whom you're describing in general terms, from Moscow (Kiev?), if one may ask? Did you meet her/them online? Because, thing is, I disagree with the following part of your analysis : "most women in the Slavic world".

 

[Cynllo]

I don't think this is that uncommon in those countries, and has probably increased in frequency in the last decade. Russia has (by far) one of the highest rates of prostitution in the world. 2% of women in Russia are prostitutes -

Prostitution Surges in Russia Due to Financial Crisis

A campaign group estimates there may be more than 3 million sex workers in the country.

www.newsweek.com

And I've heard of countless of stories that show why divorce rates are so high. Not that they are really any better in the West. But Russia does not have strong norms for relationships that might mirror something we would have seen in the Anglosphere before the cultural revolution.

I've have had girls ask for things before - not money gifts. And it's made me instantly angry and feel terrible. If you have a hope for marriage, you really know this sinks it. But some may ignore it, or be too stupid to even realise what is going on. In all the cases I ended communication with the girls. There was one occasion when I bought a gift for a girl that she low-key fished for. I did it because it didn't feel so bad, but really I knew there was something odd about this. Anyway, she was always fishing for something. I suspect she had autism and wasn't aware of what anyone thought of her behaviour, as when I communicated that I didn't like it, she would apologise and curl up. In the end I found out she was exchanging nude photos with men for money. I suspect she'd been doing it for a while and didn't know anything else. She was very attractive, but I suspect too autistic to do any work. Sometime I wonder if I could have drilled her into some kind of wife, as she was also very submissive - a brat. I'd take that over a career woman. But I ejected and never spoke to her again.

I think you need to communicate with the girls very early your intent - to find someone to marry where she won't work and will be a mother. She'll be better taken care of than she would working in her own country. If they say they want gifts I would given them an ultimatum. Re-state what you are looking for and what life will be like together. That is your promise, but you won't be giving any gifts or allowance or anything. But I think if things have gone that way, they are probably not worth pursuing. Try and screen them out earlier by laying out what you are looking for.

In my experience of Eastern Slavic women, ones who are at least somewhat active in the church are marriageable. But if they are secular and particularly if they are submerged in modern Russian-Jewish culture, they are unmarriageable.

 

[estiball]

Classic case of naive westerner who thought Russia is more conservative and traditional than the west. This myth needs to be shattered once and for all.

Reality is Russia overall is far more degenerate and athiest and many Russian women are willing to do anything for money. Have you noticed the amounts of new iPhones and luxury handbags that women have? Ask men from Saudi Arabia, China, UAE about the Russian women that show up in their countries. Russian men will tell you how "good" their women are.

BTW it is capitalism that unleashed this, women were far more traditional in the 80s and not obsessed with consumer goods or travel.

If you met a Slavic girl online or via day game and speak English with her, you are 100% a walking ATM. Most "normal" Russian women have tight-knit circles from school, university, church. No local guys give their wife 500$ a month for allowance, lmao. Unless its a 60 y/o oligarch.

 

[basedgm]

I am traditionally courting, currently in a
How does it work in the South America? In Asia? Are we the odd ones out here? It seems in South America finances work just the same as the Slavic world.

I had this same exact dilemma in Serbia and ended up choosing south America where I am at the moment. IMO yes, Balkan girls are very materialistic relative to other places. Walk into any cafe in Belgrade and you will see them taking selfies and photos of their coffee to flex on Instagram about how they're spending a days wage on a latte and a pastry.

To give perspective the average salary where I am in Latin America is $200 a month. A cafe girl I've been talking to asked me on a date but wants to wait a week so she can pay for it (presumably she doesn't have enough to afford it right now). This is not the first time I've experienced this either with a girl making minimum wage. Latinas are extremely sweet and it seems they feel the need to contribute in this regard. This is the level of sweetness and warmth that's quite common in this region and it's the reason I ultimately dumped Serbia.

 

[basedgm]

To be clear I'm always happy to pay and believe it's the man's role to support the woman especially as courtship moves along. And if I were to court a girl making $200 a month it would be out of the question that I'll make sure to pay for everything. But this displays the increased level of investment generally taken by latinas and the fact that they really want to be kind in any way they can. In other words they are happy to let you pay for things but when it happens it certainly won't be taken for granted.

 

[Feyoder]

To be clear I'm always happy to pay and believe it's the man's role to support the woman especially as courtship moves along.

It's hard to talk about this with people who have travelled to these places. I've encountered mostly two extremes of men: stingy whingers or deluded johns paying for prostitutes (an "allowance" or "presents").

In my experience in EE they are extremely mercenary and it starts from a young age and is deeply culturally embedded. I've actually never heard of anyone dating any girl in EE that wasn't like this.

this is the level of sweetness and warmth that's quite common in this region and it's the reason I ultimately dumped Serbia.

Nice one. I am looking south of the border now myself.

The behaviour you are describing is not normal. It's not the majority of Slavic women [...] Don't you have a Slavic male good friend to tell you this?

I'm coming at this as a foreigner, with mostly foreigner friends. I do wonder if it would be different if I spoke the language. I spoke with some UA (mostly secular) guys though and they all told me the same thing (and were pretty down on their girls because of it). Are you eastern european?

 

[teodort]

Hi all. I've spent the last 18 months in Slavic countries and I can't get my head around this.

I am traditionally courting, currently in a relationship and want a wife and family.

Naturally, I have accepted my role as a man and will financially provide for my future wife and family. If my wife wants to work it will be 1) the second priority to raising our kids and 2) optional, up to her. I will 100% financially support my wife once we are married and also during her pregnancy and so on. The question is the courting phase after a relationship begins and before marriage/children.

I have found is most women in the Slavic world (Ukraine/Belarus/Russia) have an expectation of regular, expensive gift giving (e.g. $150 value presents, like clothing, handbags, AirPods etc) almost every two months. This is in addition to all meals, taxis, events and regular courting costs. No surprise to many I'm sure.

How does one reconcile this? Are they dark, evil money hungry monsters or is this how things should be? I know with certainty in their mind this is completely fine, very normal and what a man must do for them to feel 'loved' (support/protection).

At first my Western mind was disgusted at this idea (even the thought of paying for regular taxis to meet up was uncomfortable), but the more time I have spent here and understanding the 'under the surface' poverty and lack of earning opportunities perhaps it is *I* who is victim of Western propaganda being turned off by these 'gold diggers' that want regular gift giving to 'feel love' (support/protection).

I have been in relationships where I am 100% convinced there was genuine love and burning desire (inc. some light cooking, cleaning, true affection and waking up in the morning with her hugging me tightly), yet it's coupled with this 'you need to buy me stuff' dynamic that comes up after 2-3 months.

My understanding of the majority of Slavic relationships is very shallow - the man comes home from work, hands his whole pay check to his wife then sits on the couch drinking vodka and watching TV - the women seem to rule the nest here. It seems to be the norm and divorce rates are insane.

Other expats I'm in touch with talk of paying their girlfriends a monthly allowances of $500 per month (for e.g.), these are low SMV simps leading with money. They vigorously defend their approach, saying that 'Western men don't understand the culture here, this is the norm, I've been here for 7 years, etc'. To be honest that creeps me out, but maybe they have a point? Once a wife and kids, sure, a monthly or weekly allowance for common expenses like food and children costs (and the odd luxury or beauty service) but pre-marriage/kids to buy gadgets to 'prove' your love... yuck.

I shudder and wonder if these people are broken from what communism did to them.

I am wasting my time here, or am I in the wrong?

Maybe the answer is understanding how things worked during the pre-1950's in the West? Did a girls father support her until marriage or was it the boyfriend too? (if they didn't work or work much).

How does it work in the South America? In Asia? Are we the odd ones out here? It seems in South America finances work just the same as the Slavic world.

Well, if she is religious, recognises what this entails and also has an active spiritual life, then she should not desire such claims. Just because a woman is coming from a Slavic country doesn't mean that she is an anti-secular, religious person.

 

[PixelFree]

Don't you have a Slavic male good friend to tell you this? Does your Slavic girlfriend have an elder brother, by the way, and if so, how come the brother allows his sister to ask for money all the time like that, before even being married? It's just not a regular situation.

Yes, I asked two high SMV Slavic male friends. We didn't get into the nitty gritty (I would like to one day) but they both said I need to view the relationship like an 'organisation'. I can't remember the exact analogy but it was basically 'guy pays'.

Also... Is (are) this woman (these women) whom you're describing in general terms, from Moscow (Kiev?), if one may ask? Did you meet her/them online? Because, thing is, I disagree with the following part of your analysis : "most women in the Slavic world".

A 2nd tier city in Belarus. Met normally during the day. I've been around long enough and my game is good enough to avoid dating apps.

 

[Stadtaffe]

I have found is most women in the Slavic world (Ukraine/Belarus/Russia) have an expectation of regular, expensive gift giving (e.g. $150 value presents, like clothing, handbags, AirPods etc) almost every two months. This is in addition to all meals, taxis, events and regular courting costs. No surprise to many I'm sure.

Well done formulating this cultural phenomenon into a post. This is one of the reasons I stay in the West, I can't really cope with the money attitude of Eastern European women.

Once I had a Russian girlfriend and it was pretty funny with the expectation of opening car doors, putting on her jacket and certainly paying. Did not get as far as gifts though. But I think it is true, if you go on a date with a Russian woman, don't not pay. She could not integrate into Germany..

Within the West, there are some women at the other extreme especially in Scandinavia with a certain strain of feminism which makes them absolutely pay their own way. I'm not sure exactly where the natural balance is, but personally I cannot deal with that Slavic attitude.

 

[PixelFree]

A phenomenon that has been around for a while, but has skyrocketed in Belarus since the war in Ukraine, is the Turkey/Dubai Instagram simp game.

These girls get an enormous amount of attention and 'gifts' from sweet talking men from these and other regions. I know of one example of Apple products, sneakers and even a transfer of $5k USD! The local Belarusian girls then all tell their friends with glee on what they have been able to extract from a guy.

We can be all high and mighty and say "I'll never be with a girl like this!" (and I certainly wouldn't either), but this does have a flow on and amplification effect to all girls in a culture where money already works quite differently.

 

[Kurchatov]

Yes, I asked two high SMV Slavic male friends.

May I ask what is "SMV", as I have difficulty with many of the widely accepted abbreviations used in the Western world?

These girls get an enormous amount of attention and 'gifts' from sweet talking men from these and other regions. I know of one example of Apple products, sneakers and even a transfer of $5k USD! The local Belarusian girls then all tell their friends with glee on what they have been able to extract from a guy.

You mean "all", absolutely all Belarusian girls who have no differences between themselves? (I am not from Belarus.)

 

[PixelFree]

SMV = Sexual Market Value, i.e. high status guys.

Replace 'all' with 'many' then if you must.

 

[PixelFree]

Well, if she is religious, recognises what this entails and also has an active spiritual life, then she should not desire such claims. Just because a woman is coming from a Slavic country doesn't mean that she is an anti-secular, religious person.

In this particular example, she had a religious upbringing, went to 'Sunday church school' inc. day trips, (over and above normal school), attends church a few times per year (but not every week). I would say she is semi-religious Catholic.

But my question is the general, not this specific.