How does money work in relationships with Slavic women (before children)

[Kurchatov]

SMV = Sexual Market Value, i.e. high status guys.

Replace 'all' with 'many' then if you must.

Thanks for the explanation, it's never too late to learn something new. The conversation, for me, has become very religious, overextended by the relevant terminology, but I would only add that the highly ranked men, on given by you indicator, could mostly reveal information about those women, who are exceptions in every country and continent, who have adopted for their value the opposite of what has alienated you from the specific Belarusian womans you mention. Because, at least so I suppose, SMV's are most diligent in seeking and attracting women with strong values. This is why they are a good guide.

Good luck in the future.

 

[PixelFree]

Why would you engage in a behavior you find, at best, uncomfortable during courtship?

If I'm against drinking to excess every weekend, but the dating culture where I'm at says: 'You must drink to excess every weekend to prove your manliness. That you can keep control in front of your woman even when otherwise sloppy!'
Then I don't date in that environment.

Do you really think a marriage that starts in such a way will lead you to happiness? Or even last? That the gift expectations will ever decrease?

Know the life you want, get a woman that fits into those standards.

I agree, yes, but we talk of this as if there are a large pool of these virtuous fertile trad con women around for us to choose from. And I can tell you, if they're not plentiful in small town Belarus, then what does that say?

Of course they exist, but they are few and far between and in many cases are inaccessible to most guys.

We can only select from what the market offers us - and the market is offering us women who have undesirable traits of one kind or another that we need to work with (like all humans, we men are not perfect either). This has always been the case AFAIK, just the degree to which is varies has changed.

In the West we need to do a bit more mental scrubbing/guidance away from harmful extreme feminism ideas. In the East, it's materialism and this focus on money we need to content with. I don't think it's wise for us to 'keep searching until you find the perfect girl who needs no work' - that's almost leads to MGTOW territory.

Best I think we can hope for is 80% 'good' and 20% effort required on our part.

In regards to money in relationships, the larger question is do *we* have it wrong in the West when it seems the rest of the world may in fact (more or less) work in this way (China, India, Central and South America)?

 

[Fidem_Spes_Amare]

At first my Western mind was disgusted at this idea (even the thought of paying for regular taxis to meet up was uncomfortable), but the more time I have spent here and understanding the 'under the surface' poverty and lack of earning opportunities perhaps it is *I* who is victim of Western propaganda being turned off by these 'gold diggers' that want regular gift giving to 'feel love' (support/protection).

Can you explain to any of these women the virtue of saving money in order to do things such as buy a house or make other major purchases to improve your quality of life (materially) in the long or medium term?

My experience with people who are used to living in poverty is, there is an attitude that all money must be immediately spent. There are many rationalizations for it, like "I don't make enough money to save anything," etc. While at the same time wasting money frequently on things they do not need. I dont mean to be harsh and judgmental against them, but its a sick and self-perpetuating cycle due to lack of basic knowledge of how to budget money.

Can you lead any of these women to realize there are better uses of the material gifts God has provided than simply instant gratification with the next shiny toy? It seems like you are allowing these women to have control over you and waste your money frivolously. Perhaps you should lead more to show them a better way if that is possible. If not, I dont see how marriage to any of the women you describe would succeed. It would be an extremely heavy and painful cross to bear, and possibly for no good reason.

 

[McKinnsley]

I know a little bit about this having emigrated to find a wife in Poland, 6 years ago.

I met a number of women but didn't go further than a second date as they were not aligned with what I wanted from my future life. After maybe 10 fruitless dates, I met what I would come to understand was an exceptional woman.

My first date was to an expensive steak restaurant, because I felt like steak that evening, I was quite proud and obnoxious in those days. Having western 'money' I could do anything. My Polka said that she couldn't match what I had done for the first date, and insisted that she would prepare a picnic and take me to a beautiful botanical garden for our second date, she inquired in advance as to what I liked to eat and if I wanted red or white wine. She prepared a bounty of delicious food and we spent all morning and afternoon together. This *impressed* me a lot.

We had many dates after that and the subject of money never once raised its head, apart from suggesting that a birthday gift etc etc was too expensive and I didn't need to do this. Sure I splurged some cash on some dates, like a trips to the gun range, and a foreign trip to meet my family for my brothers wedding - but this was all my choice and *never* suggested, much less demanded. Her dates were rich in thought and effort, like our visit to Swiebodzin to see Christ the King.

We ended up getting married in a simple close family ceremony and have been blessed with three wonderful children since then. Now we are working to develop up a small farm we purchased to live a more simple and humble life away from the western rot that's infecting the cities of Poland.

If a woman indicates a transactional nature in advance, she is very unlikely to make a good supportive wife. Conversations should early on involve the subject of marriage, family, and a relationship with God. So my advice as a very happy and satisfied man, albeit tired most of the time, is 100% skip any woman who is materialistic or telegraphs financial expectations.

 

[Going strong]

PixelFree, I notice that you are, from your profile, not Orthodox. If, on top of this fact, you don't speak good Russian language, then it might explain part of your difficulties. I mean, to meet good, not money obsessed women in Slavic countries, you need, minimum, some good Russian (or Bulgarian, Serbian etc) language skills. And preferably, to be Orthodox.

Actually it's the same all over the world, if one is a foreigner who doesn't speak the language, the situation one will face will be very difficult, regarding women or business. So, learning the local language is a necessity.

By the way, Instagram has been banned from Russia, so the current situation has certainly improved. A world without Facebook/instagram can only produce better women. Much better women. So, let's not despair.

 

[Going strong]

I know a little bit about this having emigrated to find a wife in Poland, 6 years ago.

I met a number of women but didn't go further than a second date as they were not aligned with what I wanted from my future life. After maybe 10 fruitless dates, I met what I would come to understand was an exceptional woman.

My first date was to an expensive steak restaurant, because I felt like steak that evening, I was quite proud and obnoxious in those days. Having western 'money' I could do anything. My Polka said that she couldn't match what I had done for the first date, and insisted that she would prepare a picnic and take me to a beautiful botanical garden for our second date, she inquired in advance as to what I liked to eat and if I wanted red or white wine. She prepared a bounty of delicious food and we spent all morning and afternoon together. This *impressed* me a lot.

We had many dates after that and the subject of money never once raised its head, apart from suggesting that a birthday gift etc etc was too expensive and I didn't need to do this. Sure I splurged some cash on some dates, like a trips to the gun range, and a foreign trip to meet my family for my brothers wedding - but this was all my choice and *never* suggested, much less demanded. Her dates were rich in thought and effort, like our visit to Swiebodzin to see Christ the King.

We ended up getting married in a simple close family ceremony and have been blessed with three wonderful children since then. Now we are working to develop up a small farm we purchased to live a more simple and humble life away from the western rot that's infecting the cities of Poland.

If a woman indicates a transactional nature in advance, she is very unlikely to make a good supportive wife. Conversations should early on involve the subject of marriage, family, and a relationship with God. So my advice as a very happy and satisfied man, albeit tired most of the time, is 100% skip any woman who is materialistic or telegraphs financial expectations.

Excellent post.

I'd stress 2 things, first your future wife invited you to the Botanical Garden. It's a winner.

In the FSU, any invitation to any Botanical Garden means the inviting woman is nice, cultured, dignified, sweet and traditional.

Secondly, after the Botanical, she accepted a trip to a Gun Range. Another excellent thing, meaning she's, once again, traditional, serious, courageous (and probably has ultra-Conservative family members in the army).

So, I'm glad to hear of your beautiful and successful story here, well done and well deserved. Best of luck for you and your Christian family.

 

[7-5]

I agree, yes, but we talk of this as if there are a large pool of these virtuous fertile trad con women around for us to choose from. And I can tell you, if they're not plentiful in small town Belarus, then what does that say?

Of course they exist, but they are few and far between and in many cases are inaccessible to most guys.

We can only select from what the market offers us - and the market is offering us women who have undesirable traits of one kind or another that we need to work with (like all humans, we men are not perfect either). This has always been the case AFAIK, just the degree to which is varies has changed.

In the West we need to do a bit more mental scrubbing/guidance away from harmful extreme feminism ideas. In the East, it's materialism and this focus on money we need to content with. I don't think it's wise for us to 'keep searching until you find the perfect girl who needs no work' - that's almost leads to MGTOW territory.

Best I think we can hope for is 80% 'good' and 20% effort required on our part.

In regards to money in relationships, the larger question is do *we* have it wrong in the West when it seems the rest of the world may in fact (more or less) work in this way (China, India, Central and South America)?

I definitely wasn't implying he should search for 'a perfect girl who needs no work'.

A woman being compatible with the life you want to set up is still going to have flaws. It's clear OP is not cool with the dynamic he's working under.
If that's true, then he's not found a woman who fits in the life he wants.

Far as I'm concerned: I can teach people basic skills. Cooking, cleaning, maintenance, etc.
I cannot teach conduct and motivation. If correct motivation isn't there, if right conduct isn't: I don't care about anything else.


That's my personal take on it. If she's feminine, can cook gourmet meals and is a 10/10 but her motivation is 'Get rich or die tryin', I'll take the 5/10 that burns toast who says to herself: 'God & Family above all'.

 

[PixelFree]

Can you lead any of these women to realize there are better uses of the material gifts God has provided than simply instant gratification with the next shiny toy? It seems like you are allowing these women to have control over you and waste your money frivolously. Perhaps you should lead more to show them a better way if that is possible. If not, I dont see how marriage to any of the women you describe would succeed. It would be an extremely heavy and painful cross to bear, and possibly for no good reason.

I appreciate the post and I agree.

That is my question. Can I take what should be pretty reasonable raw material, and then guide/shape as they grow out of these bad traits. Or am I just wasting my time in the Slavic world and would be better off in Central Europe somewhere (Poland, Czech, Baltics).

I can't work out if these traits are core character aspects that will never change (or even get worse) or they can be improved. Case in point - I'm sure all of us had bad traits too quite (player lifestyle, etc), recently probably also.

FWIW @Going strong I can speak very basic Russian (A1, approaching A2). I am currently learning it.

 

[mountainaire]

SMV's are most diligent in seeking and attracting women with strong values. This is why they are a good guide.

I think you would be making a mistake to assume this is the case. I've had several "high SMV" male friends back when I lived to chase women and without exception all of them made terrible decisions with women.

I remember when one of them started looking for a serious, long term partner he met a girl on a dating app who he liked. The very next day after their date, she texted him a nude photo. In my head alarm bells were going off. I asked him what he thought of it, and he said he thought it "was cool" and didn't see any problem with it. Keep in mind at this point he wasn't just looking for one night stands with random women, but a potential wife and mother, and he thought a woman sending a man nude photos after spending maybe 2 hours with him was acceptable. My friendship with this guy faded away once I started going back to Christ.

This particular man's worldview was informed by the secular world we live in. To OP, be careful who you take advice from. If you're a Christian you know what's right and wrong and your instinct is telling you this behavior is unacceptable. Don't lower your standards because of worldly conventions or peer pressure or whatever else.

 

[Nordic_Spirit]

I live with a Bulgarian. I meet living expenses, she cooks cleans etc. Never buy her gifts, and never will, but I do give her an allowance to do the grocery shopping etc.

Her father gives his wage to her mother. It's strange to me because he is a tough, live off the land ex military type. But not uncommon here - hell will freeze over before I do that though.

In my opinion, the deal with Slavs is if you are strict, they are feminine loyal loving etc, if you are not they will walk all over you, worse than western women in my opinion.

On the odd occasion she complains I tell her she can pack her bags. Has the desired effect. The modern world is what it is.

 

[PixelFree]

My first date was to an expensive steak restaurant, because I felt like steak that evening, I was quite proud and obnoxious in those days. Having western 'money' I could do anything. My Polka said that she couldn't match what I had done for the first date, and insisted that she would prepare a picnic and take me to a beautiful botanical garden for our second date, she inquired in advance as to what I liked to eat and if I wanted red or white wine. She prepared a bounty of delicious food and we spent all morning and afternoon together. This *impressed* me a lot.

Wow. A beautiful story. Thanks for sharing.

The concept of a woman organising a date is completely foreign to me. Maybe I've spent too long in the Slavic world.

These Slavic women are princesses - everything needs to be perfect and if one detail is not it's a total disaster and 100% your fault regardless of circumstances. I hope they can grow out of this but the jury is still out...

 

[Fidem_Spes_Amare]

These Slavic women are princesses - everything needs to be perfect and if one detail is not it's a total disaster and 100% your fault regardless of circumstances.

This sounds like a common test of your masculinity. She is acting like a spoiled brat to see how you will respond, hoping you will show strong authority and put her in her place. In my experience, women test you when they are trying to find out if you are worth their time.

I can't work out if these traits are core character aspects that will never change (or even get worse) or they can be improved. Case in point - I'm sure all of us had bad traits too quite (player lifestyle, etc), recently probably also.

I believe anyone's character can be turned around by repentance and making an effort in the spiritual life. Can you lead her to develop a sincere desire to change and take up a more God-centered outlook? As other posters said, your best bet would be within the Church. It sounds like the women you're meeting are worldly and too focused on material things.

 

[Road2Damascus]

I agree, yes, but we talk of this as if there are a large pool of these virtuous fertile trad con women around for us to choose from. And I can tell you, if they're not plentiful in small town Belarus, then what does that say?

Of course they exist, but they are few and far between and in many cases are inaccessible to most guys.

Is it possible that we have not fully given ourselves over to God's will that his providence is sheltering these women from us? Would it not make sense then if we indeed desire a holy and viruous partner that we must walk the full path ourselves? Just food for thought, not judging your actions or behavior with these women. This is just a conclusion I have come to in my own life and wanted to share.

 

[rainy]

I have a Bulgarian wife and in all our years together she never hinted at an expectation for an allowance or regular gifts.

If she did I’d have said, no.

 

[rainy]

These Slavic women are princesses - everything needs to be perfect and if one detail is not it's a total disaster and 100% your fault regardless of circumstances. I hope they can grow out of this but the jury is still out...

There’s a balance in the Slavic world.

On one hand it’s your job to put your foot down, set the expectations of not spoiling them and running your household. On the other hand unlike in the US, they’re looking for providers who will take care of them, and will test you accordingly. As they aren’t career chasers.

If all you’re coming across are princesses who can’t handle anything which isn’t perfect, the problem is likely you and the tone you set, or rather, fail to set.

With all due respect.

 

[Kurchatov]

I think you would be making a mistake to assume this is the case. I've had several "high SMV" male friends back when I lived to chase women and without exception all of them made terrible decisions with women.

I remember when one of them started looking for a serious, long term partner he met a girl on a dating app who he liked. The very next day after their date, she texted him a nude photo. In my head alarm bells were going off. I asked him what he thought of it, and he said he thought it "was cool" and didn't see any problem with it. Keep in mind at this point he wasn't just looking for one night stands with random women, but a potential wife and mother, and he thought a woman sending a man nude photos after spending maybe 2 hours with him was acceptable. My friendship with this guy faded away once I started going back to Christ.

This particular man's worldview was informed by the secular world we live in. To OP, be careful who you take advice from. If you're a Christian you know what's right and wrong and your instinct is telling you this behavior is unacceptable. Don't lower your standards because of worldly conventions or peer pressure or whatever else.

I think my irony is very clearly shown, but perhaps it has not become clear to you.
Too much came to me the meaning of the acronym SMV (Sexual Market Value), denoting the exact witnesses who can clarify the characteristics of most Belarusian women. Even, as it turns out, serve to accurately evaluate for some Christians. In addition to this so common cybernetic attitude, categorization, calculation, grouping into herds with distinctive features... on living people with souls.

So I apologize if I wasn't clear enough. It is quite possible, reading the opinions of some writers, that I have fallen into temporary confusion, thinking that I am in another forum, in another place, at a market for sexuals and other values, for example.

 

[Kurchatov]

There is no such thing as a "Slavic world", there are many different peoples united under this quasi-term to serve certain power goals and aspirations in some times. And on it is superimposed, superimposed, superimposed, by palace 'academics'.

 

[Bitter End]

Some great posts by people that have real marriage experience above.

The best women in our countries are usually not accessible to foreigners. They are not even accessible to people like me that lived a considerable time abroad. Social circle is key. If not highschool then definitely the university years.

Is it possible to come from the West and find a quality partner? Absolutely. But the language is by far the biggest factor. Otherwise you open yourself for the most liberal women (travelled the world, daddy has money, art and hippie crowd) in those countries or the most materialistic (the over-the-top seeking attention, the ones that will ask for the most gifts and spend their lives on Instagram). So it is hard to research "the best" country because learning a language properly will take at least 3-4 years.

However, it is not that hard to see red flags in Eastern Europe. Is the make-up over the top? How immodest is the clothing? Are her looks enhanced to the point where it is almost cartoonish? I know it looks nice compared to the West, but as I said in the other thread, vanity is also a sin. The gold-diggers are probably about 20-25% of the total female population.

It is not all money. Aggressive men that keep frame are doing well. Either dangerous or interesting or both. Sometimes violent too. All secular factors that show how young women can make terrible decisions.

 

[Blade Runner]

I met a number of women but didn't go further than a second date as they were not aligned with what I wanted from my future life. After maybe 10 fruitless dates, I met what I would come to understand was an exceptional woman.

Great post. What stood out in the women that you, more or less, instantly knew wouldn't work out? Also, what age was your wife when you met her?

I think the problem that most guys that do pretty well, those that aren't super materialistic but have a good idea of how hard it is to make money - or to have gotten as far as they have - is that they can really sense the overwhelming desire that older women have in spending a man's money, when the guy doesn't get all that much in return for any of it. Especially when attention is also the other currency men have to pay, and quite handsomely (at least in the west). That's what the spinsters don't get about us. The younger women who possibly also believe in God, they are pleasant and don't have all of these expectations, or act up all the time. An issue we have now in modern life, more and more, is how few you can even find that have been brought up with any faith, any more.

 

[Blade Runner]

Is it possible that we have not fully given ourselves over to God's will that his providence is sheltering these women from us? Would it not make sense then if we indeed desire a holy and viruous partner that we must walk the full path ourselves?

It could very well but at this point in the cycle much of the sheltering is because it will bring forth worse outcomes for everyone involved. The problem is that in general, this goes against the "be fruitful and multiply" command that everyone thinks God gave (to us). I personally don't see all that many high value women in any capacity, except for pockets of various foreign countries, where they were lucky enough to have parents and grow up in a poor(er) country that didn't spoil by materialism. The number of churchgoing 7+s I can recall in my entire lifetime, and I think this is part of the modern/materialistic cycle (yes, I'm from the US and orthodox immigrants spoil their daughters, on average, tremendously like most other americans with anything), is small. 6+ among orthodox was as low as 5% also - just saying. But also this was the time in the world where women weren't taught to put family first - even girls born in the mid 1970s weren't thinking of marriage by age 25 in the US. So there's that. It must be considered. That's 50 years at this point, my friends. And things have gotten way worse.

I know this sounds pessimistic and I do agree with "first look at yourself", but I personally know high numbers of men who do very well, were not and are not ugly, are over 6 foot tall, etc that didn't meet very many people at all that were even reasonable partners, forget good looking, for years of the mid 20s to age 40, even. Oh and by the way, these are not pickup artists and players.