How much does/should her sexual history matter?

Waverer

Robin
I think as I've got older and more sexually experienced, I've experienced less jealousy about the sexual past of women I date. But it's still a strong, visceral feeling - anyone familiar with evolutionary psychology will know why it exists, and why it's much stronger for men than women (who get most upset by emotional infidelity).

How much is too much for you? And how does her number compare to yours? Do you/would you have a don't ask, don't tell policy or would you want to know? One woman I know is determined that she and her husband to be, whoever that is, tell one another everything. I know a lot of detail about her past already and told her honestly that it is the most offputting thing about her - and that is from someone with a more extensive sexual history than hers. The kind of traditional men she wants to attract will mostly have a sexual history that is dwarfed by hers.

Anyway, I am interested in how much it bothers others - particularly those in long term relationships already?
 

Cortés

Woodpecker
Gold Member
I don't have the chart in front of me, but the chances of a marriage failing shoot up drastically from virgin to 1 prior partner for the wife, and climbs each partner more. Perhaps 50 years ago it wouldn't be a tall task to find a woman who was a virgin, but obviously since then it has gotten significantly more difficult.

Now personally, I had multiple past sexual partners, which I have since been celibate for the last year and a half. It would be a bit too much for me to expect that my wife was perfectly clean of sin as well. I wouldn't turn down a girl who's had maybe 1 or 2 past partners solely because of that. This is assuming that she has returned to the church, realized her prior sins, and prayed to God for forgiveness-as this is what I am doing.

I think a woman with more partners than that is really risky. More than 2 prior boyfriend's means she was just hooking up with guys. I could understand if she was with her boyfriend before, but hooking up at college party's is a big fat no. Her history alone presents a large threat to the marriage, even if she was perfect in every other way.

In summary, one or two prior sexual partners doesn't make her not marriage material-given she recognizes her errors and has other good values. But if she does have that past, you really should think about how good of a wife she would be in other aspects
 

kel

Ostrich
Pursuant to the discussion in the other thread, age (amongst others) also factors in here. Regardless of body count, a 30 year old woman is very likely a buzzer beater, looking to lock down some stability and/or resources while she can. This is very likely to be a woman with a storied sexual history, riding the carousel and "finding herself" and now "finding herself" alone and depreciating in value very quickly, but even if she has a relatively low body count somehow she is still broken.
 

Laner

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Pretty important if you plan on a long term marriage.

Marriage and family are pretty stressful. Not the actual problems, but the amount of 'work'. There seems to always be something to do, and couples with kids are like a tag team of wrestlers. You just go til you need a tag, then in she goes. Its not ideal, and you can go weeks without it feeling this way, but when its go time, its go time.

Why do I mention this? Because when a girl who has used sex as a tool to get rid of stress, suddenly finds stress all around her she is more likely to give up. A chaotic home or a night with the girls. Or even a text to hook up with a guy from her past where she can sip wine and then get fucked to oblivion in his luxury condo overlooking the pretty lights of the city below. Its all there, just waiting for the right combination to play out.

For casual relationships I never cared at all. Some shit I have seen has haunted me since, but because I was just as bad as they were I didn't judge. But sloots can take their vag slinging to a whole other level that 99% of men would never believe.

Short term flings; Go for it if they are a good match for you.
Long term; No way. Its a ticking time bomb. If you are solid as fuck, you might hold her together longer. But why the risk?
 

R.G.Camara

Kingfisher
I think as I've got older and more sexually experienced, I've experienced less jealousy about the sexual past of women I date. But it's still a strong, visceral feeling - anyone familiar with evolutionary psychology will know why it exists, and why it's much stronger for men than women (who get most upset by emotional infidelity).

How much is too much for you? And how does her number compare to yours? Do you/would you have a don't ask, don't tell policy or would you want to know? One woman I know is determined that she and her husband to be, whoever that is, tell one another everything. I know a lot of detail about her past already and told her honestly that it is the most offputting thing about her - and that is from someone with a more extensive sexual history than hers. The kind of traditional men she wants to attract will mostly have a sexual history that is dwarfed by hers.

Anyway, I am interested in how much it bothers others - particularly those in long term relationships already?

A woman's sexual past tells whether she can properly be a loyal wife and good mother. A virgin is ideal for pair bonding and caring for her children. The more cocks, the less she will care about you or your offspring, as she has trained herself to "move on" to the next penis and have his children.

Frankly, unless a woman has had an extreme religious conversion, any woman with a sexual past should not be considered wife material. Point them in the direction of a nunnery, where, traditionally, easy women/prostitutes were sent so that men wouldn't marry them and end up miserable.
 
I don't have the chart in front of me, but the chances of a marriage failing shoot up drastically from virgin to 1 prior partner for the wife, and climbs each partner more. Perhaps 50 years ago it wouldn't be a tall task to find a woman who was a virgin, but obviously since then it has gotten significantly more difficult.

Now personally, I had multiple past sexual partners, which I have since been celibate for the last year and a half. It would be a bit too much for me to expect that my wife was perfectly clean of sin as well. I wouldn't turn down a girl who's had maybe 1 or 2 past partners solely because of that. This is assuming that she has returned to the church, realized her prior sins, and prayed to God for forgiveness-as this is what I am doing.

I think a woman with more partners than that is really risky. More than 2 prior boyfriend's means she was just hooking up with guys. I could understand if she was with her boyfriend before, but hooking up at college party's is a big fat no. Her history alone presents a large threat to the marriage, even if she was perfect in every other way.

In summary, one or two prior sexual partners doesn't make her not marriage material-given she recognizes her errors and has other good values. But if she does have that past, you really should think about how good of a wife she would be in other aspects

In looking at the situation, consider causality vs. correlation: It's likely that women who've had many partners tend to be unstable wives because, well, unstable wives/women usually have several sexual partners. I remember a line from a psychology exam for some psychological case of where a man drinks because his wife nags him while his wife claims to nag him because he drinks.

Before I settled down, I went out with every train wreck imaginable so here's my take: The older women (late 20s+) who appeared otherwise good on paper (decent looking, feminine, mentally/financially stable) but with relatively low/high notch counts, I found that the sexually experienced women generally were more receptive to relationships in general while the low notch counts didn't have sex not because they were virtuous or religious, but rather they were lazy, had RIDICULOUS expectations of men, or some kind of sexual psychological issue that had gotten worse with time. I personally believe after having lived with different women and been married is that women do have sex drives, like men, but they are less able to take action to relieve it and this manifests in unhealthy ways (they get more moody, stuck up, etc. which doesn't help the matter) just as horny men may become desperate and nervous which doesn't help to impress women.

The reason why there's such a high ratio of men to women on dating sites is because most young women "convent" themselves by going to work/home/shopping and not putting themselves out there for a relationship waiting to be day-gamed under the perfect circumstances. This is a classic line in a cheesy romance film illustrating how deluded they are:


So my contention is that either way, assuming she's not tatted up, etc, (upper case) THERE IS A REASON WHY SHE'S SINGLE _AND_ has a high/low notch count.

And that reason will be the "cost" of having a relationship with her (amongst other things).

I can understand why men are judgmental about women who rode the cock carousel and then look to settle down with a beta buck later, but this is like getting angry at someone who wins the lottery, spends the money on themselves, and then later looks to marry a nice guy and have him support her. Yeah, it's annoying, but assuming all other things being equal, so what? We judge women for getting abortions and going to hell for that, but how many of those same guys want to volunteer to marry a single mom with a kid from a one night stand?

So putting moral judgements/jealousy aside, the issue then is whether the woman is sufficiently mature (in a good way) to be a decent wife/mother. I think the only way to really know this isn't to look for "red flags" during the first date or even on a profile photo, but rather at least 6 months or more of time in natural settings to see how they react. It's tough at that point then to pull the trigger and decide "My first gut reaction was right, I should dump her" after having emotionally vested, but at the same time, my own gut was wrong and I'm married 15 years to someone who can be amazingly annoying, but is also loyal.
 

Radoste

Sparrow
I don't have the chart in front of me, but the chances of a marriage failing shoot up drastically from virgin to 1 prior partner for the wife, and climbs each partner more.

iu
 
Let's say you start dating her at 25. She's been active since 16/17.

Let's say 2 BF's in the HS timeframe, 2 BFs in college, 2 post college. She's higher quality, generally a few months max in between BFs. Slept with 2-3 guys she was trying to lock down.

That's close to 10 and I think that's reasonable for a girl these days. Once you get over that, it's getting into excessive territory. She's looking for validation and/or she is absolutely crazy.

The real question is... how do you find out? Just ask them? Or just always be very straightforward, let the general subject come up naturally and then ask nonchalantly?

Or just find out number of past BFs and # of past "dates" and then triangulate the general number.
 
Pretty important if you plan on a long term marriage.

Marriage and family are pretty stressful. Not the actual problems, but the amount of 'work'. There seems to always be something to do, and couples with kids are like a tag team of wrestlers. You just go til you need a tag, then in she goes. Its not ideal, and you can go weeks without it feeling this way, but when its go time, its go time.

Why do I mention this? Because when a girl who has used sex as a tool to get rid of stress, suddenly finds stress all around her she is more likely to give up. A chaotic home or a night with the girls. Or even a text to hook up with a guy from her past where she can sip wine and then get fucked to oblivion in his luxury condo overlooking the pretty lights of the city below. Its all there, just waiting for the right combination to play out.

For casual relationships I never cared at all. Some shit I have seen has haunted me since, but because I was just as bad as they were I didn't judge. But sloots can take their vag slinging to a whole other level that 99% of men would never believe.

Short term flings; Go for it if they are a good match for you.
Long term; No way. Its a ticking time bomb. If you are solid as fuck, you might hold her together longer. But why the risk?

Damn!!! Your post nearly made me fall out of my chair! This should be so obvious, but it was not for me. But yes, marriage and family, over time, becomes very stressful, and these women with many notches from riding the cock carousel, are going to want to *regularly* cheat, as a means of temporary stress relief! They will simply be reverting back to an ingrained habit, of seeking short term sexual solace, to take their mind off their problems. No wonder the experts are saying women today are cheating at a level equaling or even surpassing men!

A woman without this pre-marriage background, who just has a very few sex partners, still might cheat, but for her it's generally a big deal and nothing to be taken lightly. But the current breed of women will see cheating more as getting some fast food, to take care of an itch that needs to be scratched. And that will be done over and over again, due to life's unending stresses and irritations.

About a decade or so ago, I remember reading an interview with a marriage counselor, who said due to all the sexual promiscuity of single women, that when they started getting married, and trying to be faithful, that they would fail at a massive never before seen level, and that marriage counselors would make a fortune, in the meantime! And that is now the truth.

I can see why third wave feminists are trying to steadily get men acclimated to being cucked/cheated on by their women, by saying it is the ultimate way a man can show his love/respect for his mate, by letting her do whatever she pleases sexually, with other people. And to do otherwise, is to be controlling, which is certainly a bad thing! Lol I can envision soyboys embracing such a twisted ideology. The battle lines are getting drawn...
 
Damn!!! Your post nearly made me fall out of my chair! This should be so obvious, but it was not for me. But yes, marriage and family, over time, becomes very stressful, and these women with many notches from riding the cock carousel, are going to want to *regularly* cheat, as a means of temporary stress relief! They will simply be reverting back to an ingrained habit, of seeking short term sexual solace, to take their mind off their problems. No wonder the experts are saying women today are cheating at a level equaling or even surpassing men!

A woman without this pre-marriage background, who just has a very few sex partners, still might cheat, but for her it's generally a big deal and nothing to be taken lightly. But the current breed of women will see cheating more as getting some fast food, to take care of an itch that needs to be scratched. And that will be done over and over again, due to life's unending stresses and irritations.

About a decade or so ago, I remember reading an interview with a marriage counselor, who said due to all the sexual promiscuity of single women, that when they started getting married, and trying to be faithful, that they would fail at a massive never before seen level, and that marriage counselors would make a fortune, in the meantime! And that is now the truth.

I can see why third wave feminists are trying to steadily get men acclimated to being cucked/cheated on by their women, by saying it is the ultimate way a man can show his love/respect for his mate, by letting her do whatever she pleases sexually, with other people. And to do otherwise, is to be controlling, which is certainly a bad thing! Lol I can envision soyboys embracing such a twisted ideology. The battle lines are getting drawn...

Something to consider about modern American women: They aren't very good at manipulation or lying.

Yes, I know, but before you grill me, hear me out.

It's not that these women don't lie or manipulate regularly, but generally they only get away with it because so many beta males are easily fooled or even encourage it. But from an early age when I was red-pilled, it was as easy as catching my 4 year old fibbing. When I confronted blue pilled guys about it, they came up with lame excuses for the women.

Another thing is that women love to blab. I know how to keep a secret. Heck, it's one skill I'm going to teach my daughter early (whom I'm red pilling). Keeping a secret is a mental burden. And modern women are trained to think that they're entitled to a burdenless life.

One time, a woman I had just met and slept with told me about a month into it she slept with her ex. I dumped her immediately. Here's the thing: If she had just kept her mouth shut about it, I'd been ok with it. If she felt guilty enough to want to tell me, but had kept her mouth shut, then as far as I'm concerned, since we weren't serious yet, no harm no foul. But her blabbing meant that she was testing me to see if I would put up with such open relationship shenanigans.

My wife spoke with a Russian friend who cheated on her husband in the most disgusting way imaginable to me: with black guys. She never told him. Which, fine. Yes, he'd be p*ssed to hear about it, but otherwise they seem now to be doing well and they're raising a child together. Should they get divorced over this causing disruption for everyone? The fact she confided to my wife indicates that she had a guilty conscience. So now, she's gotta live with it. Does she want to add to that burden?

So a woman sleeping around when she's single and therefore she has no secrets to keep is different, emotionally, then cheating on someone whom you want as a confidant and lover.
 

GibsMeDat

Sparrow
The funny thing is, lots of hoes will say "the Bible teaches you not to judge people by their past" in order to justify their notch counts.

The point is, the Bible still teaches chastity, and while you may be forgiven for premarital sex, you must have REPENTED for your sin. Not only have most of these hoes not repented or displayed regret for their sins, many are actually proud of it. And pride of sin is the worst sin of them all.
 
The funny thing is, lots of hoes will say "the Bible teaches you not to judge people by their past" in order to justify their notch counts.

The point is, the Bible still teaches chastity, and while you may be forgiven for premarital sex, you must have REPENTED for your sin. Not only have most of these hoes not repented or displayed regret for their sins, many are actually proud of it. And pride of sin is the worst sin of them all.

This brings back a memory of one of George Carlin's hilarious routines on sin, intent, and confession:
 

Laner

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Something to consider about modern American women: They aren't very good at manipulation or lying.

Yes, I know, but before you grill me, hear me out.

It's not that these women don't lie or manipulate regularly, but generally they only get away with it because so many beta males are easily fooled or even encourage it. But from an early age when I was red-pilled, it was as easy as catching my 4 year old fibbing. When I confronted blue pilled guys about it, they came up with lame excuses for the women.

Another thing is that women love to blab. I know how to keep a secret. Heck, it's one skill I'm going to teach my daughter early (whom I'm red pilling). Keeping a secret is a mental burden. And modern women are trained to think that they're entitled to a burdenless life.

One time, a woman I had just met and slept with told me about a month into it she slept with her ex. I dumped her immediately. Here's the thing: If she had just kept her mouth shut about it, I'd been ok with it. If she felt guilty enough to want to tell me, but had kept her mouth shut, then as far as I'm concerned, since we weren't serious yet, no harm no foul. But her blabbing meant that she was testing me to see if I would put up with such open relationship shenanigans.

My wife spoke with a Russian friend who cheated on her husband in the most disgusting way imaginable to me: with black guys. She never told him. Which, fine. Yes, he'd be p*ssed to hear about it, but otherwise they seem now to be doing well and they're raising a child together. Should they get divorced over this causing disruption for everyone? The fact she confided to my wife indicates that she had a guilty conscience. So now, she's gotta live with it. Does she want to add to that burden?

So a woman sleeping around when she's single and therefore she has no secrets to keep is different, emotionally, then cheating on someone whom you want as a confidant and lover.

Very true. Being in this game for so long I have a near flawless bullshit detector. I have been the bullshitter.

And having children exposes you to the shallow end of lying. The lies are basic and for no reason. And when caught, the kid will often have a thrilled excitement. Is it the lie? Or the relief?

Women are in this same realm, but with a much higher stake. I don't think I have ever witnessed my wife lie. She is truthful at all costs, and people she interacts know - or sense - this. But some of her friends I catch in lies, although less often these days. The first time I caught her best friend in a lie, I just said flatly, "Well that is not true. Try again, the truth this time." She looked at me with daggers, then fear, then a thrilled excitement. She saw it was simple with me, that judgement was not there, just truth, "Try again, sweetheart. This time with the truth." It was relieving, as lying is exhausting.
 
Very true. Being in this game for so long I have a near flawless bullshit detector. I have been the bullshitter.

And having children exposes you to the shallow end of lying. The lies are basic and for no reason. And when caught, the kid will often have a thrilled excitement. Is it the lie? Or the relief?

Women are in this same realm, but with a much higher stake. I don't think I have ever witnessed my wife lie. She is truthful at all costs, and people she interacts know - or sense - this. But some of her friends I catch in lies, although less often these days. The first time I caught her best friend in a lie, I just said flatly, "Well that is not true. Try again, the truth this time." She looked at me with daggers, then fear, then a thrilled excitement. She saw it was simple with me, that judgement was not there, just truth, "Try again, sweetheart. This time with the truth." It was relieving, as lying is exhausting.

I caught my 4 year old in one the other day. She asked me to turn on the TV for her. I asked her if mommy was ok with that.

She got this cute look on her face, and said "Yeeeess!!"

I looked at her sternly and she started to giggle.

I then went, talked with mommy, and agreed on TV time later if she ate first which she did.
 

Bolly

Pelican
If I could I'd hook a girl up to a polygraph machine about this. I just gots to know, and i got no shame asking girls this. Not like you'll get a real answer anyway, but you can put pieces together and know if she was a hoe before you. But this has pretty much led to the end of every relationship I've been in. I refuse to be the sucker at the end of the line to give her a ring after everyone else had fun with her. Id rather die an eternal bachelor than marry a girl whose taken 500 miles of dick. My pride just won't let me. Hoes can still be good girls and tick off a lot of boxes, which is disappointing, but still it won't be me. She could say the same about me and my past with girls, but let's face it. It is in fact different. Lol.

 
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andy dufresne

Kingfisher
From painful experience the answer is EVERYTHING. Never LTR a woman with a messed up sexual past NEVER. Don't play captain save-a-ho. Her sexual past says everything about her emotional state and her future attitude to you. You are not special to her and she can't love you (but she'll love your wallet.) She most likely has major daddy issues. You'll be just another dick her mind and she'll drop you like a hot potato without a second thought when something better comes along. Oh and and if her notch count is greater than 5 she's also probably alpha widowed so she'll always be thinking about Chad while you bang her.

Men form emotional bonds with women VERY differently than women form emotional bonds with men. That was a hard red pill for me.
 
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Laner

Hummingbird
Gold Member
From painful experience the answer is EVERYTHING. Never LTR a woman with a messed up sexual past NEVER. Don't play captain save-a-ho. Her sexual past says everything about her emotional state and her future attitude to you. You are not special to her and she can't love you (but she'll love your wallet.) She most likely has major daddy issues. You'll be just another dick her mind and she'll drop you like a hot potato without a second thought when something better comes along. Oh and and if her notch count is greater than 5 she's also probably alpha widowed so she'll always be thinking about Chad while you bang her.

Men form emotional bonds with women VERY differently than women form emotional bonds with men. That was a hard red pill for me.

This is still a bit of a hard pill for me. My player past has made me a bit insecure in my marriage. I cheated A LOT. I saw things with girls I hooked up with, who were in relationships. Girls that I least expected to be so deceitful and dirty. But they got off on it, the thrill was similar to that of a man, but their depravity ran far deeper than mine, and deeper than 99.9% of the men out there. It was hard to witness, even though sexually it was exhilarating.

Now that I am monogamous, I am pair bonding far deeper than even my wife, who had ONE long term boyfriend before me. A lot of it is witnessing her with kids and the innocent joy she gets from taking care of our son and me. In our pre kid days, she would have an edge of womanhood about her. Off to yoga, gym sessions, brunch, shopping, weekend getaways, overseas travel. Things that felt good and looked good. She was hotter, but not as attractive.

Emotional bonds are something that will continue to require game and hard work for the rest of my life.
 
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