How much does/should her sexual history matter?

Waverer

Robin
Laner, you touch on another point that this thread and others bring up. It feels like a lot of people are doling out advice along the lines of:

- marry a virgin if possible, but certainly if she's had more than 3 sexual partners she's ruined and your marriage will end in divorce
- a man with a sexual past as long as his arm can form a perfect union as long as he chooses wisely

You don't have to believe men and women are exactly the same to wonder about the double standard.
 
the theory that a woman who slept with more than 5 or 10 guys before getting married and the correlation of divorce or "problems"..what material do we have to support that?

I've also seen the opposite, women who were virgin before marriage and then they cheated to "try new things"
 

Mike_Key

Woodpecker
There are a couple other threads similar to this one, if you need more ideas.

It matters substantively, largely, critically and crucially. Everything you will encounter can be overcome, but you will have to confront some rough patches and demons, change some behaviors.

Women and Men get married and have children. Women have to think in a generational sense. And you, both, have to display the behavior of responsible, stable and mature adults. If you think in a generational sense then your kids will realize early in life that they will get married and they will have kids. It starts early in life.

There was mention of a celebrity divorce, those kids will have it rough and will / may end up as strippers or in prison. They will surely be high risk for drug use with all the expendable cash that rich kids have accessible.

If a woman has an extensive sexual history or past - she was not learning home-making during those sexual years. She doesn't know how to make a dehydrated boxed meal in the microwave (in college I witnessed this - idiot chicks can't make a box of Potatoes Au Gratin in a microwave). She doesn't know how to change the bed-sheets once a week. Her mom is likely a wreck. Her aunt is likely an idiot. They taught her nothing.

Some previously "loose" women marry and assume the husband knows of her past. Or it's simply never mentioned. He often times will not know. The truth will come out in her lack of skills, her lack of character / character flaws or her undisciplined behavior. Women have this survival skill of "glossing over things", important things.

Also, think of this. How many people do you know on their 2nd marriage? Those "previous married years" are often times "no go zones". Unless you are libertine, where ex-spouses mingle with one another - you can't talk about 15 years of your life which was marriage #1. A once "loose" woman won't be able to talk about her home town, her first boyfriend and her past slut girlfriends. If she does then you have to address the issue of Respect, a wife must respect her husband (found in Scripture).

Again, there will be chaos for your kids if there is a divorce. All children of divorce when they become adults "hate" their divorced parents to an extent.

"Why do I have to travel to 2 different cities, risking my life on the highway, to visit these immature "train-wrecks" of parents? They are selfishly wrapped up in their lives on marriage 1, 2, or 3; never giving my kids (their grandchildren) attention or money, as in $2."

Yeah, there is definitely a lot to consider. Choose wisely ...

John 3:16
 
Any 'reformed' players have no business in judging a female's sexual past, as it was their own sexual greed that empowered said women to get those 'pasts' to begin with. (Not that I'm letting the women off the hook, believe me.)

As for the 'multiple partners effects men and women differently', that is a Manosphere copout, used by mysogynists.

I suggest finding every single woman you have assisted in becoming blood-guilty before God, and apologising to each and every one of them. Then you may be able to claim repentance on your part.
 

Waverer

Robin
Any 'reformed' players have no business in judging a female's sexual past, as it was their own sexual greed that empowered said women to get those 'pasts' to begin with. (Not that I'm letting the women off the hook, believe me.)

As for the 'multiple partners effects men and women differently', that is a Manosphere copout, used by mysogynists.

I do wonder sometimes...
 
Any 'reformed' players have no business in judging a female's sexual past, as it was their own sexual greed that empowered said women to get those 'pasts' to begin with. (Not that I'm letting the women off the hook, believe me.)

As for the 'multiple partners effects men and women differently', that is a Manosphere copout, used by mysogynists.

I suggest finding every single woman you have assisted in becoming blood-guilty before God, and apologising to each and every one of them. Then you may be able to claim repentance on your part.
totally agree with you, me, as "reformer player" I can't judge any woman past.
 

MajorStyles

Pelican
Years ago I was dating a gal. One day I found out that prior to our relationship, she had been gangbanged repeatedly in the small city we lived in. 3 dudes slammed her repeatedly (she said it happened 4 or 5 times, which makes me believe it was double that).

At any rate, after her admission, our relationship was over. I just could not get myself to see her as wife material anymore. It was not anything moral…it was merely a visceral reaction against the reality. As if she was now a plate of food that I could no longer stomach.

So my takeaway was this: Your mind can rationalize all sorts of things, but your stomach is always closer to the truth.
 

Benedictus

Pigeon
iu
I've seen graphs with similar trends, but it is important to control for upbringing and religion, which i'm not sure this graph does.
Women with zero sexual partners before marriage don't get divorced as often because they bond better to their husbands. But, if a woman hasn't had any premarital sex she also probably comes from a religious household where the shame from her community dissuades her from having a divorce as well.

It's hard to isolate how much of an effect body count alone has on marital satisfaction, although I do think it is quite a bit considering how much of an importance is placed on women retaining their virginity in traditional cultures.
 

Augustus_Principe

Woodpecker
Any 'reformed' players have no business in judging a female's sexual past, as it was their own sexual greed that empowered said women to get those 'pasts' to begin with. (Not that I'm letting the women off the hook, believe me.)

As for the 'multiple partners effects men and women differently', that is a Manosphere copout, used by mysogynists.

I suggest finding every single woman you have assisted in becoming blood-guilty before God, and apologising to each and every one of them. Then you may be able to claim repentance on your part.

As much as many reformed players here may hate the idea of this, it is true that we all took a part in the degeneracy of ruining these women. none of us a year or two ago would've said no to an easy-access woman, nor told a woman to wait till marriage to have sex. Instead, we reveled in this sin and now, we condemn the same women we "conquered". As i've said in the past, I'm not saying we should get with women who were complete sexual degenerates with a 50+ fornication count(heck, maybe some men wont have a problem with that...) However, we must realize that if we came to see the light and truth of the matter and repented for our sin, then we must give women the same benefit. If she is truly repentant, has cut off her slut friends completely, has turned her life around, and is pious and virtuous, I dont see much of a reason for concern. We all know how hard it is to come to this realization in the current culture we live in, so it is a good sign if a woman does wake up from it.

A lot of the concern on this thread is still coming from a secular way of looking at this. Yes, I too would not trust a secular, non-christian woman with a 10+ body count who suddenly wants to lock down a beta. We know her disorder still lingers in her and she will cheat on you sooner or later. However, I see the situation differently with pious woman. If we can turn our lives around, then of course women can as well. Of course we would then court the woman in question and actually see if she exhibits good qualities and not lying to us. We must use our intellect here

Also, who's to say that a Christian Woman who's a virgin in the 18-23 range (her absolute prime) wants a 30+ y.o man who's had a past life as a Casanova? That Virgin woman may have the same concerns we are all saying here. Her absolute best bet to a successful marriage would be to marry a young guy who's also a virgin and has been a lifelong christian, not a man who dived in deep into the sexual degeneracy, but saw the error of his ways 10-20 years later. May sound harsh, but that's the reality. Perhaps we need to lower our pride here.

Finally, I wouldn't go as far as apologizing to each and every woman you slept with, but at the very least, you should confess your sin of fornication and be absolutely repentant about it, never to do it again. Then, continue increasing your virtue.

Why did she go along with that?

Unfortunately a woman fornicating with multiple men in the same room is all too common with young people these days. You can thank College for that.
 

Mike_Key

Woodpecker
Someone above in this thread wrote that there is no difference in the standard between men and women and that this idea comes from the Manosphere. But they offered no points/counterpoints. I tend to believe that there is in fact a different standard between sexuality of men and women - not a double standard.

My argument or believe stems from how boys and girls mature by the age of 10 years old. By that age, boys tend to realize that no one cares about them - generally in life and in the world. If you had a silver spoon - great. But on average, let's consider a general upbringing. Girls on the other hand realize that she will be taken care of - so long as she clings to someone. How many girls are pushing around lawnmowers at age 11? Not many. This may not be happening much with boys these days - but we'll see how it shakes out with Millennials and Gamers - for better or worse.

Having said this, boys too go through many harrowing experiences of abandonment, injuries, insult, poverty and stress that girls know nothing about. They, the girls, eventually seek experiences and adventures - through casual sex but don't do so well, they don't hold up well to the fire - after, say, being called a B*tch, merely, or after being dumped twice by two different guys (all this is truly misadventures or deliberate demented behavior). They go over an emotional cliff so to speak. Boys on the other hand keep moving forward when they encounter, rather, equivalent challenges. They keep working toward their future. If I had time here - I'd like to create some demarcation(s) between different types of boys. There are Knaves (chads, knaves, PUAs, etc.) vs the 80% many of which are not losers but driven to take care of themselves - when no one else will bother. That discussion is sizable in and of itself. I'll skip that for now, for this post. Nonetheless, on average I find that women damage or wreck themselves after always having been taken care of by someone else - many of them eventually lose it emotionally / mentally.

At the same time - as mentioned earlier - during this "You go Girl" period, this "loose girl" period, she wasn't learning Homemaking skills. This, while the guy was doing what he was intended to do - he was working; he was improving himself. Someone calls him a "loser", he doesn't lose his mind. And neither was he, on average, sleeping with 3, 6 or 9 girls/women in 1 years time - as those certain type of girls/women were doing. She was sleeping with Knaves for the most part - guys that when they grow up are either dead, in prison or doing mostly average in life. Someone once said that for equivalency a guy would have to come across $5,000 cash and spend it on 10-20 prostitutes. The point was that - this power is dangerous; the sexual power that, some women play with - as if it's a board game or paper airplane. It's dangerous to the point of damaging women differently.

The above mostly refers to the factor of mental strength and mental stability.

Keep in mind, my "adventures" were literally being dragged behind a car on asphalt when I was 12 years old - parts of my body were ripped up badly, cauterization by fireworks, theft of my precious kid treasure - a bike, bad crashes from rugged sports, two occasions where guns were drawn on me, being thrown in jail twice, not having parents during a portion of High School, etc.

Consider Kanye West and his woman with a Sexual history, I feel sorry for him because on the one hand he has said that he wants a divorce but, too, he is fighting for his family right now. Consider the woman that he married. She, Kim, isn't stating that she has a strong Christian faith. She's working on Criminal justice. She supposedly had a sexual affair with a guy through this "work" of hers. Her mom apparently sold her Sex tape - this likely bothers Kanye. He's fighting for his family and his kids, but unfortunately he picked a rather tarnished woman. Kim may or may not choose righteousness.

They are both messed up, if you will. They should be living together, traveling together ... and the monster-in-law should be out of their lives.

Other reasons for Different vs double standard between men and women ... now this is only for me. How do you see it? Sincerely ... do share ideas. Change my mind.

- Gross factor
- Mom factor
- Nurturing factor
- Respect factor
- Stability factor
- the "proud of your wife" factor

Below I'm attaching a video with a handful of poignant ideas from J. Peterson.

Video Summary:

- The question deals with sexual restraint vs unhealthily repressed sexuality

- "Let's think about ethics to begin with ... so what is the point of conducting your life ethically, isn't to follow proper rules precisely, it's so that you balance your life so that it is productive and meaningful for you, now and in the future with any luck, but also for people around you, that would even be better, for you now and next week and into the future ... [act well, behave well across time and people]".

- "When you are thinking of an ethic such as sexuality you have to think of it in the context of the rest of your life ... what did I like that I read ... Who is in control? Is it you or the sexuality? Have you integrated your sexual life into the rest of your life so that the whole thing makes a harmonious balance? Are you in charge or is it in charge? If you are not in charge, things are out of control and you'll be in dreadful trouble. That happens when any given drive or value per-dominates to the exclusion of anything else."

- "I don't think casual sex exists ..."

- "There is no disentangling sexual behavior from your emotional behavior ... or maybe if you try to disentangle ... you end up cold and cynical."

How much does/should her sexual history matter?

Is she, your GF or wife, cold and cynical?

- "I think you hurt your soul ... "

- "There's nothing deep about it (casual sex), there's no discrimination among partners, ... there is nothing that helps you establish a meaningful relationship with someone ..."

- "Casual sex is a demented adolescent's fantasy"


Loose women have been known to say at age 34, "there was no one for me to marry." Actually lady, there were too many. There were too many men that you slept with ... surely you could have picked one (no one was offering). But then the guy is accused of being mean.

They also have been known to say "No one took care of me." They actually did but after you reached a certain threshold the 'investment' wasn't what it had been at an earlier point. But yet again, you'll be accused of being mean.

Many previous "loose" women enjoy mentioning the Woman at the Well story in the Gospel of John 4, sure, that's a great story ...

Look, all decent and present husbands want is a woman that is 110% dedicated to her family - not Facebook, her mom or memories of her many past boyfriends - she shouldn't be googling or FB 'searching/seeking' her past sex partners.

How much does/should her sexual history matter?

It does matter. It shouldn't matter if she has Christian faith and if she is 110% for you, recognizes her flaws brought upon by a sinful past and has changed.

Sure sin is sin, for both genders, the wages of sin is death - I'm not avoiding that idea in this "sexual history" debate.

I'm sure, in all of this, that I don't have it totally accurate but we think, we write and we try.

John 3:16
 
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Rob Banks

Pelican
Any 'reformed' players have no business in judging a female's sexual past...
Everybody has a right to judge the past of a potential partner. Just because you did bad things doesn’t mean you need to lower your standards and settle. You have every right to seek the best woman you can get.

That being said, if you’ve made mistakes, then it would be wise to forgive a woman’s mistakes (provided she is truly repentant). Forgive and you will be forgiven. Judge and you will be judged.
...
As for the 'multiple partners effects men and women differently', that is a Manosphere copout, used by mysogynists.
...
No. This is true. It is common sense that it affects men and women differently. Just look at the physiognomy of a woman who’s been with tons of men (1000 cock stare) versus a man who’s been with tons of women.

Male promiscuity and female promiscuity are not equally bad, but they are still both bad (and gravely so).
 

Rob Banks

Pelican
It would probably be a good idea to lose the charts, graphs, and statistics when it comes to this topic.

As cringy as it is when we hear blue-pill men talk about “true love” and finding a “soulmate,” dare I say those men are closer to understanding the true meaning and beauty of marriage than the “red-pill” men here who believe a good woman can be found by looking at charts and statistics as if you were investing in the stock market.

Yes, it is important to know how many sexual partners she had. But even if you don’t have this information, you should be able to use your intuition to discern that she is not a good/trustworthy woman (or vice-versa if she is trustworthy).

If, prior to marrying a woman, you’re referring to a chart to determine your chances of divorce, then you’ve already lost. Your chances of divorce should be 0% and there should be no doubt whatsoever about this in your mind.

When you get married, what are the chances your wife will kill you in your sleep? If it is higher than 0%, you would seriously reconsider marrying her. The same goes for divorce.
 

Radoste

Sparrow
which is the original source of this information?
The graph says 2006/08 NSFG data. NSFG= National Survey of Family Growth.
From Wikipedia:
The National Survey of Family Growth is a survey conducted by the National Center for Health Statistics division of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to understand trends related to fertility, family structure, and demographics in the United States.
 

Laner

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Laner, you touch on another point that this thread and others bring up. It feels like a lot of people are doling out advice along the lines of:

- marry a virgin if possible, but certainly if she's had more than 3 sexual partners she's ruined and your marriage will end in divorce
- a man with a sexual past as long as his arm can form a perfect union as long as he chooses wisely

You don't have to believe men and women are exactly the same to wonder about the double standard.

Yeah, and a lot of these men will probably never get married.

A man with solid game and an unshakable foundation of who he is can wife up a whore and keep her at heel. But that same man would not do such an insane thing.

There are plenty of girls out there that had a few guys through school and found a good man in her 20's and got married. This is likely the standard of what we are dealing with in the west. Those silly charts don't take into account how many men in those high divorce categories are the "HAPPY WIFE, HAPPY LIFE LOLOLOLO!" losers. My bet is many of them. Being 40 I get to see a lot of those guys get suckered into a whores net and yuk it up with a bunch of inflated bravo til the divorce.

The double standard is real. I have one hell of a double standard, and no way in hell would I ever give an inch.
 

Tactician

Kingfisher
Gold Member
Women getting alpha widowed is a real thing & it takes a long time + a lot of resolve for her to get over it. If she hasn't moved on, then you're probably in the "he'll do for now" camp if you're dating her. Not a place I'd want to be. It sucks because getting alpha widowed usually messes with the most idealistic part of a girl and makes her a bit more jaded & calculative about relationships.

Girls who get alpha widowed can be really good on paper. Slim, Christian, thinks feminism is stupid, etc, but they'll put up all kinds of road blocks when dating because they don't actually want to get into a new relationship. They want the old one back. They're basically off the table as they're just going through the motions and aren't ready to go all in.

As for the dorky charts, I like them, but only as a broad critique for society, like GDP or a Nation's average SAT scores or something. Not very useful on the personal level.
 
Women getting alpha widowed is a real thing & it takes a long time + a lot of resolve for her to get over it. If she hasn't moved on, then you're probably in the "he'll do for now" camp if you're dating her. Not a place I'd want to be. It sucks because getting alpha widowed usually messes with the most idealistic part of a girl and makes her a bit more jaded & calculative about relationships.

Girls who get alpha widowed can be really good on paper. Slim, Christian, thinks feminism is stupid, etc, but they'll put up all kinds of road blocks when dating because they don't actually want to get into a new relationship. They want the old one back. They're basically off the table as they're just going through the motions and aren't ready to go all in.

As for the dorky charts, I like them, but only as a broad critique for society, like GDP or a Nation's average SAT scores or something. Not very useful on the personal level.
where can I see the behaviours of those "alpha widowed" girls? any article or post speaking in deep about that?
 
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