How much does/should her sexual history matter?

Waverer

Robin
Girls who get alpha widowed can be really good on paper. Slim, Christian, thinks feminism is stupid, etc, but they'll put up all kinds of road blocks when dating because they don't actually want to get into a new relationship. They want the old one back. They're basically off the table as they're just going through the motions and aren't ready to go all in.

You've just described the main woman I've pursued this year. It's very sad for her as she doesn't fit the portrait of a cynical, jaded calculator. She's a churchgoing Christian devoted to her tradwife dream and she fell in love with someone who clearly only wanted to keep things casual (he was sleeping with other people and told her so) and couldn't/can't let go. Now she's convinced she would need the same chemistry very quickly with anyone new she dates or it would be a waste of time. She's 27 and she said she's already noticed she gets less male attention than 4-5 years ago. She's gaining weight. I'd probably marry her tomorrow if she was interested, but I don't like the trajectory right now and certainly I don't want to be her consolation prize after five more years of aging, weight gain and looking for something better.
 

Mike_Key

Woodpecker
where can I see the behaviours of those "alpha widowed" girls? any article or post speaking in deep about that?

You can seek them out in the scattered remnants online of CH, Chateau Heartiste wrote extensively about this (2013-ish). But, generally speaking - pining for a past boyfriend or uncommitted sex partner, disrespect for her current husband, ...

If she commits her life to pining then other things in her life lack attention needed and deserved, so it's a form of disrespect and ungratefulness.

A word of warning, for all actually, especially if you are a blue pilled religious guy ...

While CH wrote well ... beware of very dark opinions that he may have - however true they may be ... it's like "the devil is real and evil", yes that is true but don't be tempted to plant dark seeds in your heart.

But the CH truths are actually more vile and, almost, tangibly understood if you happen to know "those type of women".

I have many, many stories but I don't know where to put them. I guess this is as good as any place, for one in particular.

I knew a guy in the family. His wife, mother of his children, was secretly in-touch with her Alpha. She pined and ultimately planned to run away with him. She stole her current husband's clothing. With her loot, she left the home and children, met up with her Alpha and stayed until he no longer wanted her - she eventually returned home.

What about the stolen clothing, you may ask. She stole her current husband's clothing because she liked, really enjoyed, how he dressed himself such that she wanted to see her "alpha" dressed well. : )

You can't make this stuff up.

John 3:16
 
The "double standard" commonly presented by Alt Right, was what my other post was referring to.

If God can wipe her slate clean, but we can't, then have we not have declared God's view on the matter to be incorrect? Never may that happen!

Regarding illicit sexual activity:
A woman (or man) with a 100+ partner count, versus a partner count of only 1 - there is no difference between them. God's salvation, or judgment, depends solely on the (lack of) true repentance of each individual and the subsequent abandonment of the former course of life. (1 Corinthians 6:9-11)

"Should I take into account a woman's sexual history?" should be rephrased as
"How to tell if anyone's claim to have genuinely repented is sincere."

God holds neither men, nor women, to any different "double standard" criteria for sin. If we accept what any man (or woman) suggests otherwise, then we have declared the Sovereign of the Universe to be a liar. Now our /own/ repentance is insincere, and we know what happens to such people.

That's how serious this matter is, Gentlemen. We must be careful.

I would not imply that you have to wife up anyone you personally don't want to. What I disagree with, scripturally, is the Alt Right's angle that a woman's sexual history means she should automatically be forever condemned by all men, regardless of what she does /now/, but men can (continue to) be whatever they want.

I'll simply conclude with this:

One divine directive must be applied equally to all. If a woman's past is to predestinate her future, then the scriptures demand that her (male) accusers must be held to the same standard.

Luke 6:37-38, 40
 
As much as many reformed players here may hate the idea of this, it is true that we all took a part in the degeneracy of ruining these women. none of us a year or two ago would've said no to an easy-access woman, nor told a woman to wait till marriage to have sex. Instead, we reveled in this sin and now, we condemn the same women we "conquered". As i've said in the past, I'm not saying we should get with women who were complete sexual degenerates with a 50+ fornication count(heck, maybe some men wont have a problem with that...) However, we must realize that if we came to see the light and truth of the matter and repented for our sin, then we must give women the same benefit. If she is truly repentant, has cut off her slut friends completely, has turned her life around, and is pious and virtuous, I dont see much of a reason for concern. We all know how hard it is to come to this realization in the current culture we live in, so it is a good sign if a woman does wake up from it.

A lot of the concern on this thread is still coming from a secular way of looking at this. Yes, I too would not trust a secular, non-christian woman with a 10+ body count who suddenly wants to lock down a beta. We know her disorder still lingers in her and she will cheat on you sooner or later. However, I see the situation differently with pious woman. If we can turn our lives around, then of course women can as well. Of course we would then court the woman in question and actually see if she exhibits good qualities and not lying to us. We must use our intellect here

Also, who's to say that a Christian Woman who's a virgin in the 18-23 range (her absolute prime) wants a 30+ y.o man who's had a past life as a Casanova? That Virgin woman may have the same concerns we are all saying here. Her absolute best bet to a successful marriage would be to marry a young guy who's also a virgin and has been a lifelong christian, not a man who dived in deep into the sexual degeneracy, but saw the error of his ways 10-20 years later. May sound harsh, but that's the reality. Perhaps we need to lower our pride here.

Finally, I wouldn't go as far as apologizing to each and every woman you slept with, but at the very least, you should confess your sin of fornication and be absolutely repentant about it, never to do it again. Then, continue increasing your virtue.
I can only say this, Augustus_Principe:

You articulated the points I originally wanted to make much better than I did.
 
The opposite of the alpha widow, are the women who are married to alphas, but they seem to grow tired of it. I have seen this fairly up close. She seemed to get weary of his "high maintenance" demands as her alpha Chad. He wanted hot meals on the table waiting for him, easy access sex from a wife who stayed in shape, pleasant conversation, the house clean, etc.,. He made well over six figures, while she was a housewife, so he felt he was within his rights to ask for these things from her. But over time, she grew to resent him and his "demands." I would say he was a male 9 and she was a female 8, but also extremely intelligent and well-educated. They were in church every Sunday, but it made no difference. She filed for divorce, took the house and the lion's share of his paychecks. They had five kids together, so he was screwed.

This happens especially among celebrity alpha males, athletes, musicians and actors. The woman at first feels very prized having caught her famous alpha mate, but then as she experiences his daily demands and also competition from other females, the shine wears off. And in time she wants to divorce him, so she can take her half of his wealth, and just relax, hang out with friends, pursue her business interests, and on occasion have sex with anyone who catches her eye, without a serious commitment. Woman today often don't have the self-discipline and correct attitude to appreciate marriage to even an alpha. The option for a no fault divorce just makes things too easy to quit and enjoy all the cash and prizes she will receive, to support a fun single mom lifestyle.
 
I think as I've got older and more sexually experienced, I've experienced less jealousy about the sexual past of women I date. But it's still a strong, visceral feeling - anyone familiar with evolutionary psychology will know why it exists, and why it's much stronger for men than women (who get most upset by emotional infidelity).

How much is too much for you? And how does her number compare to yours? Do you/would you have a don't ask, don't tell policy or would you want to know? One woman I know is determined that she and her husband to be, whoever that is, tell one another everything. I know a lot of detail about her past already and told her honestly that it is the most offputting thing about her - and that is from someone with a more extensive sexual history than hers. The kind of traditional men she wants to attract will mostly have a sexual history that is dwarfed by hers.

Anyway, I am interested in how much it bothers others - particularly those in long term relationships already?
Bothered me before we married, bothered during our marriage . . . we are now divorced because of it. I could be sexually attracted to a whore but I could never love one . . . learned it the hard way. That "visceral" feeling you speak of is indeed natural and in the nature of man as created by our Lord, it would be unnatural if you didn't want sexual exclusiivity with your wife. I compromised because I bought into the secular lie that "everyone has a sexual past" and so I convinced myself that I just wasn't emotionally mature and that with time it would just pass . . . well it didn't after 17 years. Man was put here to take a woman to wife in her virginity, both the old and new testament are clear on that point, so I dont know why christian men ignore their own instinct on the matter. Probably the crypto-feminist teaching that has leached into the church since the sexual revolution.
 

Coja Petrus Uscan

Hummingbird
Gold Member
I saw things with girls I hooked up with, who were in relationships. Girls that I least expected to be so deceitful and dirty. But they got off on it

Any details?

***************

My personal experience is that the overall quality of women very obviously declines from 0 notches.

I knew one girl who was 21 and had 0 notches and that is the truth. This was the only girl I have trusted, truly. She was not perfect, but she had an obvious moral compass that kept her away from Sodom. I am fairly sure I could have extracted sex, but I did not want to as I knew it would not be. This was this time last year, and I had already moved strongly to the position of the new forum, but still had work to do. I was disappointed when I saw the smile on her face when I replied to her question asking of my notches. It wasn't one of pure evil, but it was one of living in the value of passive sin. She saw me as having an admittedly low notch count as a hallmark of her now possessing something of value. I was not some Pantifa. But that was the only thing I can criticise in the time I knew her.

It went down hill later. I still messaged her sometimes and not too long down the line she got a new boyfriend - her third. I suspect this was a beta orbiter, as I already knew of this guy. From time to time she would send me her high-makeup selfies or shots lying in her pink bed. Then one day out of the blue she sent me a photo of her wearing suspenders. She told me she was going to see her boyfriend and, I believe, intimated they would have sex. She later told me they did, that he had a big dick and that she would have had sex with me, but she wasn't sure about me. I said I didn't want to have sex and thought she would not want to either. She said she wanted to try it at least once to see if he is any good.

At this point my suspicions were confirmed that she was trying to make me jealous and this guy was a rebound/tool for that. I said we should not talk any more as she has a boyfriend.

My conclusion from all this is that people should really only have one romantic interest in their life. The moment you open the door to, oh maybe an unchaperoned visit, the next thing you know Lady MAGA is conservative.

The reason I mention this is because it illustrates what is likely to happen to a girl, as she moves on from one failed relationship. She had sex and started sending semi-nudes. She never sent me something like that before. These are the inevitable things that will come once a woman in allowed to rack up boyfriends; as her father stand by oblivious or without word.

This girl was from a country where that is a reality for many - only one romantic interest. Her parents had an arranged marriage when her mother was 16. She wasn't allowed a boyfriend, but the old order is fraying all over the place.

When there is a strong social compulsion for this order then it's out of mind for any respectable family for anything other than this. They only have one chance and they must use it wisely. That obviously stops the Chad phenomena. The best choices are married off first and then the lesser can slowly get paired off without having to come with 10+ pump and dumps.

It also means that women have a genuine interest in romantic interest. They are not burned out and emotionally jaded by the squalor, their rejection an whatever else comes along with it.

The second best after this came from a similar background. Their parents had an arranged marriage after knowing each other for three days. They had one previous boyfriend and said they were a virgin. Though I am not sure about that.

After that it all declines.
 
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As for the dorky charts, I like them, but only as a broad critique for society, like GDP or a Nation's average SAT scores or something. Not very useful on the personal level.

I don't think I'm that good of a judge of character... but it still astounds me people care more about studies and statistics than their own lying eyes
 

Mike_Key

Woodpecker
The "double standard" commonly presented by Alt Right, was what my other post was referring to.

If God can wipe her slate clean, but we can't, then have we not have declared God's view on the matter to be incorrect? Never may that happen!

Regarding illicit sexual activity:
A woman (or man) with a 100+ partner count, versus a partner count of only 1 - there is no difference between them. God's salvation, or judgment, depends solely on the (lack of) true repentance of each individual and the subsequent abandonment of the former course of life. (1 Corinthians 6:9-11)

"Should I take into account a woman's sexual history?" should be rephrased as
"How to tell if anyone's claim to have genuinely repented is sincere."

God holds neither men, nor women, to any different "double standard" criteria for sin. If we accept what any man (or woman) suggests otherwise, then we have declared the Sovereign of the Universe to be a liar. Now our /own/ repentance is insincere, and we know what happens to such people.

That's how serious this matter is, Gentlemen. We must be careful.

I would not imply that you have to wife up anyone you personally don't want to. What I disagree with, scripturally, is the Alt Right's angle that a woman's sexual history means she should automatically be forever condemned by all men, regardless of what she does /now/, but men can (continue to) be whatever they want.

I'll simply conclude with this:

One divine directive must be applied equally to all. If a woman's past is to predestinate her future, then the scriptures demand that her (male) accusers must be held to the same standard.

Luke 6:37-38, 40

NoDesignation_Man,

I hear you loudly and clearly, but keep in mind what men are encountering or have already encountered. Wait a minute, wait, wait, wait

wait just one minute ...

(rhetorical question zone)

Are you married, did you marry a virgin (God thinks a virgin was/is important), does she bake bread, does she iron your washed and dried under-shirts and bed-sheets, did she arrive to the marriage with intact parents, have they baby-sat while you two have gone on a 10 day Caribbean cruise, baby-sat while you two have gone for a 1.5 hour meal at a nice restaurant, while she is not working a Corporate job 40 hours a week - does she at a minimum attend a bible study mid-week with other women, …

The questions are end-less ...

Did she never create a Facebook account, in the first place.
Did she delete her Facebook account (because you commanded it or because it caused trouble)
Some guys probably have to deal with Instagram and Snapchat accounts of their girl/woman… Tinder accounts of women they are considering marrying … and worse, those Pay sites for Fans …

I’ll stop there because it only becomes more disgusting.

I am not re-judging any particular woman’s soul or salvation. I’m simply talking about skills or lack thereof. I’m referring to respect for her husband. I’m referring to good-behavior. We want good-behavior out of a wife (Like a dog? Yes, like a dog).

I can hear it already …
“Wives are not dogs”
(/close humor)

I’m talking about selflessness, diligence, …

Consider the supposed “Daddy issues” topic, I don’t even know what that means entirely, but I suppose it means she didn’t have a father for 10+ years of her life and goes out seeking male attention, the attention of multiple men. That is a real thing, that is a real thing that Men, now married Men, have to deal with in their wife. In a non-heathen (Christian) enclave in Roman times, they didn’t have to deal with such mental issues. In a Puritan community 300 years ago, they didn’t have to deal with such mental issues.

Earlier I said “re-judging” her soul. It’s interesting that I phrased it that way because that reminds me of Judge Judy. There was an episode where a “future wife” was dumped because prior to the wedding there was a red-flag. This happened because she attended or hosted a party. At said party, she was in a hot-tub with another guy and girl. This “future wife” hopeful kissed the guy – the non-groom. When the groom found out about it, he canceled the wedding and demanded his engagement ring. If I recall correctly the woman wanted to keep the ring. A little researched showed that she had attempted the same thing before - with other guys. Judge Judy told her that what she was perpetrating was/is fraud.

(Now, men, if you married and knew nothing … about your wife … things can be overcome … you can survive ... and marriages should survive if kids are already involved)

Second story, look back in the News to 2016 when a few women were (are yet) selling on-line Positive Result pregnancy tests. Why, would they sell those – a stick that a woman pee-ed on? The women selling these “Pre-determined” Positive pregnancy tests said, “we don’t care what they are used for”.

Fraud was likely the end-point. So it's not just Sexual history that concerns men, it happens to be deeper in some regards.

I shared that very story with a women. The first word out of her mouth – fraud.

The stories of disrespect, bizarre happenings/characteristics and likely fraud are endless. I recall seeing a TV show where if you, as a contestant, told the truth you’d win $1 Million. The woman in one particular episode confessed or lied (detected by the Lie detector methods/inquiries/device) that she invited someone to her wedding that she had had sex with in the past. She thought that it would be ok to invite a past lover to her wedding. Or she didn’t think (not too conscientious). That is gross. That is vomit-inducing.

I think that we all clearly understand that we are sinful, ourselves as men. And that we cannot judge or re-judge a woman’s soul. I’m sure that we don’t interject ourselves into the scripture of John 3:16.

We simply want to know – what did we get ourselves into when we married. And where is the respect. Where is the good behavior. Will we be treated well to very-well? Men marry women with bad credit scores and they don’t know it until 12 months into the marriage when finance issues arise. There is much unknown out there – hopefully men handle it well, after the fact.

But I do appreciate your earnest post, I like your angle, your approach. Thx.

John 3:16
 
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GWYW2015

Woodpecker
Like some others have said, I believe if a woman has confessed and repented of her sin, that's all she can do. that's all any of us can do. She repents by maintaining a no sex position until she is married. I see no advantage or benefit in having sex before marriage, only a detriment that God warns us of for instance in Proverbs 5. When God says to get drunk on your wife's lovemaking, that's good enough for me.
 

get2choppaaa

Pelican
This thread is somewhat filthy.

Her sexual history matters in the context of her piety and rejection of previous sin.

If you start dating a woman whose got no interest in Christian traditional roles and is not strong in the faith it's gonna end up poorly. Even if her sexual history is low.

Vs...

If you court a woman whose faith is strong and repentant, and something you both share in genuine reverence to God...while I wouldn't say go bang the village bicycle, theres a greater chance that a repentant fallen woman is a much better choice than an irreverent non faith oriented woman.

Questions of Game go away once you deal with genuine Christians whose desire is to work towards salvation.

Regardless of our own sins, if we pursue relationships with those who's desire is to glorify God, you have less to worry about than those whose have a low notch count but are atheist or secular.
 

Laner

Hummingbird
Gold Member
For clarification, is it because of your cheating past? Or do you mean this in general for all men?

I mean it in general for all men. But certainly for myself.

Women are attracted to effort in men. Its pretty hard to be attractive to your woman if your instinct is to just drop her or run off to your mistress any time things don't go your way. Dread Game only works for a short period at a time.
 
How much does/should her sexual history matter?

It does matter. It shouldn't matter if she has Christian faith and if she is 110% for you, recognizes her flaws brought upon by a sinful past and has changed.

Faith or no faith if she has over 10 bodies It's a deal breaker I'm out I don't care how much she's changed. To be honest over 2-3 is a bit much for me. I remember telling my grandmother of this one woman who has been with 5 guys a few years back and she completely was shook up and in shock like I just described the Whore Of Babylon to her. She couldn't believe it.

Then again my Grandma comes from a different time. And all the women around me in my personal life haven't been with any more then 2 men sexually.

I was being flirty with this one girl for a little while and had every intention to pursue her as a potential Girlfriend, she had a very cool personality right up my ally, my kind of girl. I then learned she had been with over 10 dudes sexually and performed oral acts countless times. So many times she had a Vulgar nickname. Her bestfriend told me all of this. I was horrified and immediately cut all ties with that woman. The worst part about it was that her bestfriend thought I would like to hear all of this like she was doing her a favor and talking her up, like yea look how freaky she is.
 
Reality check folks (sexism ahead!).

When a man screws up (even catastrophically) he can recover, it may not easy but he can get back on track for the most part. The reason for this is very simple, sperm and testosterone are cheap.

When a woman screws up there is almost no getting back up on the physical and mental levels. The prime breeding age is 15-30. Once that window is passed (or even nearly reached, aka Japan's famous "Christmas Cakes") her ability to produce children is diminished severely. Any that she does have from then on have a good chance to be deformed, weaker and prone to more genetic disorders.

To add more fuel to the feminist's sati bonfire every single dick that passes through those gates has left it's mark, her brain is literally altered with each and every encounter with a new man. The ancients were wise, remember #NohymenNodiamond.

As for those who say that we should marry sluts and whores because of our own histories may I remind you of another piece of older then print wisdom, "When did deserve had anything to do with what you get?"
 
I mean it in general for all men. But certainly for myself.

Women are attracted to effort in men. Its pretty hard to be attractive to your woman if your instinct is to just drop her or run off to your mistress any time things don't go your way. Dread Game only works for a short period at a time.
100% agree with effort.

Men that complain that their wives aren't in the mood for sex - they should try doing the dishes and maybe cleaning the bathrooms.

No good wife or mother is likely be horny after her husband plays video games and watches football for 8 hours a day while the house is a complete mess.
 
100% agree with effort.

Men that complain that their wives aren't in the mood for sex - they should try doing the dishes and maybe cleaning the bathrooms.

No good wife or mother is likely be horny after her husband plays video games and watches football for 8 hours a day while the house is a complete mess.

That is woman's work (barring bachelorhood where's it a necessity on your part). Doing it makes you a beta provider in her eyes, and beta provider = blueballed. If your going to do something why not build a deck, brew some beer (could be a good business if you get good at it, American beer sucks) or something else manly.
 
That is woman's work (barring bachelorhood where's it a necessity on your part). Doing it makes you a beta provider in her eyes, and beta provider = blueballed. If your going to do something why not build a deck, brew some beer (could be a good business if you get good at it, American beer sucks) or something else manly.
I'm going to play devil's advocate here.

It's only beta if she's just on her phone all day on social media while the man does all the household chores. But if she's also working a full time job, taking care of the kids, handling the finances and making dinners, I wouldn't call a dude helping out where he can a beta.
 
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