How Old Is The Earth?

ball dont lie

Kingfisher
Gold Member
Well done on the mockery, strawmen, and ad-hominem's, a cheap serotonin rush for your ego. And congratulations on traveling through China, that's very impressive. Your very assertion to wisdom by having traveled through China and having seen many large cities, is one of the very reasons I suggest could be a reason why an over-population myth could succeed: The human mind has limited cognitive perception. It is not easy to tell 10,000 from 100,000 people intuitively. People who travel through large cities often, could easily fall into the trap of believing any population number thrown at them is plausible, by their own bias of being surrounded by large crowds often. One year it's 1B people, the next it's 3B people, then 7.8B- where does it end and what ends does it serve? However, if you will read what I literally wrote, I made no actual claims towards facts of reality, I simply made an inquiry with statements like:

"does anyone have any more info on this topic?"

"Seems like something that would be relatively easy to analyze mathematically, and assess"

"I assume that is a very low likelihood" (a statistical statement literally designed to suggest I am undecided on the topic but that some probabilities might shed further light on it)

So in effect what you are doing, is attacking a false position of fact which I did not make, that you imagined. I am simply saying - who does the narrative of over-population serve to benefit? Why would such a narrative be promoted? Is it even possible to compute such a number and what are the ways in which it is currently done? Why do we blindly accept it as fact? Does anyone have any more resources on this topic? And finally, it would be something which could most likely be reasonably analyzed statistically so as to remove our opinions from the matter. I am totally open to being wrong, it doesn't matter to me. However, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

But please sir, don't let me get in the way of your prideful, anecdotal assertions of exotic foreign-travel domain-knowledge, and calling people retards for critically thinking or exploring topics which on their face, seem to go against Christian values (population control, sterilization, abortion, racism, etc). You literally quoted Tropic Thunder as a premise to attack another person's proposition as unsophisticated. Think about that for a minute.


I lived in cities of 15 million people, 10 million and 8 million. I've spent long periods of time in Hong Kong, Taipei, Shanghai, Beijing and Guangzhou.

Yes, its easy to tell what a huge amount of people look like.

This is just East Asia, and does not include my travels all over the world, to large cities.

You have zero real world experience. A frog in a well, looking up at the tiny circle of stars, proclaiming profound knowledge.

Go to China, India, Indonesia. Hang out for a few months. Then report back.

Never go full retard.
 

berserker2001

Robin
Orthodox
I lived in cities of 15 million people, 10 million and 8 million. I've spent long periods of time in Hong Kong, Taipei, Shanghai, Beijing and Guangzhou.

Yes, its easy to tell what a huge amount of people look like.

This is just East Asia, and does not include my travels all over the world, to large cities.

You have zero real world experience. A frog in a well, looking up at the tiny circle of stars, proclaiming profound knowledge.

Go to China, India, Indonesia. Hang out for a few months. Then report back.

Never go full retard.
You are unironically roaming internet forums telling people you don't know that they don't have real world experience, calling them retards, then doubling down on 3-4 logical fallacies as well as doubling down on your own anecdotal experience bias.... Wish you all the best!
 

berserker2001

Robin
Orthodox
One easy cursory example of how the global population claim could be way over-presented:

China is supposed to be the world's most populace country at 1.398 B people (World Bank data: https://datacommons.org/place/country/CHN?utm_medium=explore&mprop=count&popt=Person&hl=en).
China's top 400 cities by population (i.e. all cities over 109,000 people) sum to 368,205,191 people (National Bureau of Statistics of China via WorldPopulationReview.com https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/cities/china)
This suggests that there are over 1 B people in China living in it's rural areas and towns under 109,000.
According to CIA.gov data, China's Urbanization % (percent of population living in urban areas) is 61.4%. (https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/field/urbanization/).
Unfortunately the CIA.gov website doesn't offer their definition of "urban area's", but if we assumed it was all cities over 109,000 people, then this would mean China actually had 599,682,721 people (or 798,317,279 less people than claimed).

Now I am not saying that China actually has less than 600K people, but considering most people are fully willing to scrutinize other data offered by the Chinese government, why are we accepting this 1.398 B population number as truth? Furthermore, many people who travel to China say the cities are full of empty skyscrapers, and that the countryside feels barren because the population can't survive as farmers anymore so they moved to the cities for work.

We say China and India comprise about 1/3 of the earth's population; are we also trusting India's census numbers?

As far as Western countries, almost all of them claim to have reduced birthrates and smaller families than historically. So where is the 7.8 B people number coming from? This is just one of many different ways you could look at and critique this much-touted world population number. Again, I am fully willing to be wrong on this inquiry and am claiming no knowledge or expertise- but what narratives does an over-populated earth serve? Who benefits from thinking we need to reduce population?
 

Crazy Ivan

Chicken
Doesn't prove much. You would see same effect on a flat earth and a lower sun shining at an angle.
Wrong.
It does prove the Earth is not flat. Also, the Greeks already knew that before, because when you move North-South, there are Stars that you can or can no longer see, because they are so low in the sky, that when you move your position they are now below the Horizon.

If the Earth was flat, the sun would rise at the same time everywhere on the upper side of the Pizza.

Aristotle, however, was also a great astronomer. Aristotle wrote in 350BCE in the treatise “On the Heavens,” Book II, Chapter 14:
“Again, our observations of the stars make it evident, not only that the Earth is circular, but also that it is a circle of no great size. For quite a small change of position to south or north causes a manifest alteration of the horizon.”
“Indeed, there are some stars seen in Egypt and in the neighborhood of Cyprus which are not seen in the northerly regions; and stars, which in the north are never beyond the range of observation, in those regions rise and set. All of which goes to show not only that the earth is circular in shape, but also that it is a sphere of no great size.”
The Geometric calculation I posted before simply gave the size of the sphere on top.

Also, every sun, planet, and moon you can see in the Heavens is spherical. What would make you assume that the Earth is special, and be flat? You know who thought the Earth is flat? The Hindus. They also thought it is being carried by turtles. What is carrying a flat Earth, and what is on the bottom side, if it has the shape of a Pizza? The whole flat Earth theory is silly and full of holes.

I understand that you are sceptical about Science, because there is a lot of fraud out there that calls itself science. Geometry however is so simple, that anyone can do it. I would call it a sacred science. Remember, the truth shall set you free, even if it goes against your current believes.

 
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Crazy Ivan

Chicken
Personally, I would consider pro "flat Earth" proponents on the Forum as either Trolls, saboteurs or stupid. This 'flat Earth' talk is just wasting everybody's time, is derailing threads, and makes Roosh look silly if his 'fan base' is regarded as pro flat Earth.

If people really want to talk about this, they should make a dedicated thread for it (if there isn't one already), and stop derailing other threads.
 
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that is plain wrong. I have watched 2 or 3 very long pro-Flat videos. they are not getting censored. The reason there are so many anti-flat videos is probably because Flat-Earth is retard-tier nonsense, that people with a decently high IQ and some knowledge in math and geometry can debunk easily.

The old Greeks already proved that the Earth is not flat but a sphere, using Geometry.
They even calculated the 'size' of the Earth and got pretty damn close to what it really is.


Round-Earth-1024x685.jpg

Please post the links.
 

Crazy Ivan

Chicken
Please post the links.
Just stop it, please. This thread is not about Flat Earth. Make your own thread. Also, I watched these FE videos like 2 years ago, and certainly don't remember the Titles or have any links on hand. I would have to search for them again, which I have no good reason to do. I just remember that one video was by the main FE guy, who also runs a FE website. Now, if you please - no more flat Earth stuff in this thread. I wont answer any more questions about FE in this thread. Thank you.

30a.gif
 
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Fenaroli

Robin
The Catechism of the Catholic Church gives specific dates and genealogies, so by tradition an Old Earth theory can’t be accepted, it would be incompatible.

I’ve been really disillusioned by “science” over the last couple of years and I have so many doubts about:

- Space and Astronomy
- The shape, nature and age of our world
- Evolution
- Abiogenesis

I believe God gave us the gift of reason and it is reasonable to have doubts over the accepted scientific “dogmas” today.
 

DeWoken

Robin
It's been a quality thread, fellas. :like: I was reading it late last night and will reply after waking up (with all the posts melting into a stew). :)

I am wondering if I should start a thread like:

"The Graham Hancock Thread"

"Ancient Civilizations, Cataclysms, Messengers and Reboots"

It's kind of a deep topic, related to this thread but maybe a bit different.

Like I've said in this thread, my bible knowledge is still weak. I was reading Graham Hancock before the virus hoax and election scam but the harsh nature of events threw me off of my academic pursuits.

Mostly I agree with @Max Roscoe , thinking that God's glory is not diminished by most of modern science's conclusions (something about babies and bathwater). Miracles happen all the time without breaking our "known rules" of science. And even as humans harnessed the power of the atomic nucleus and learned to fly faster than sound - hemming the unknown rules into a seemingly shrinking pen - we unleash the digital frontier, AI and robots, and are once again awash with uncertainty. The thing that remains is that we are never fully in control.

Mountains, fossils, and entire species, can be created by natural phenomenon which were designed by God. God can create order out of chaos and leave no trace, if he wants. I have heard it said that false clues on the earth are left as a "test of faith" and I find that unsatisfying. If you look into the details of the position of Earth in the "Goldilocks zone" and all of those variables that had to be in the right range for human life to be possible you start to see fingerprints of God. But we weren't ready for that knowledge at the time of the Bible's writing, and I suppose it was only alluded to obliquely.

I find it poetic how the plants were created before the sun. It makes me think of a masculine-feminine interplay, with the sun being incredibly powerful but ultimately purposeless without his plants. His rays are usually just the right amount for her to flourish - and she is somewhat adaptable to his moods. Baring cataclysm (or Bill Gates spraying shit in the air) it is a perfect match.

Dr. EM Jones says that the reason The West flourished compared to the Muslim world was that in Islam everything is simply, "God's will". Why does water boil faster high in the mountains? "Because Allah wills it!", and the discussion ends. I prefer a Christian God that makes some sort of sense, that knows our heart.
 

orthodoxisaac

Chicken
Orthodox
Congratulations, newly illumined servant of God, on your baptism!

I have found these posts to be helpful:
Creation with the appearance of age: https://ancientinsights.wordpress.com/2021/05/07/creation-with-the-appearance-of-age/

Orthodoxy and YEC:

Why Seraphim Hamilton Became a Creationist:
 

Marmion

Pigeon
Scientific findings that indicate a "young" Earth...
  • "Fingerprints" of creation (i.e. polonium halos found in some granites around the world) demonstrate that cooling may have occurred in less than 3 minutes, which is tantamount to creation of these rocks.
  • The global Flood occurrence explains the vast accumulations of coal and oil deposits found around the world.
  • The young age of coal and rapid formation of coal achieved in laboratory experiments fits only a young Earth scenario.
  • Radioactive traces found in coalified wood defy the longs ages scenario.
  • Dinosaurs found in mass graveyards and their tracks found in coal (displayed at Vernal, Utah) indicate they died in a global cataclysm.
  • Excess helium found in deep granites shows that the Earth's crystal rocks must be "young"
Radiometric age dating is basically an arithmetic calculation.
Assumed age=constant x (amount of lead/amount of uranium). A constant decay rate is assumed; isotopic ratios are measured in a laboratory. If the constant is really a variable, the assumed age cannot be trusted.
 

LordTBE

Pigeon
Gold Member
Well til you understand the earth is flat we live under a firmament.

Void and without form.

Battle of Heaven, cast out. Who did Cain speak of he was also cast out to?

ZeN garcia and Rob Skiba do great work on these, so if you have long drives, or when you're in the gym, or relaxing at home their youtube channel has lots of great stuff.

Indeed.
 

The 1 Duke

Sparrow
I think we agree for the most. Perhaps what will be discovered is something utterly alien to what we know now, something to be unlocked with new reasoning, to explain the changes and divergences we notice. In any event, how the species change is not because of the irrational survival of the fittest argument. That argument does not explain anything.

Science is a Christian practice corrupted by The Devil over many centuries. I would argue that the corruption begins with the Reformation and ends with The Woke.
To me science is just man trying to understand GOD.
 

The 1 Duke

Sparrow
You are obviously influenced by heretical hazardous Protestant doctrines. Never the holy fathers of the Orthodox Church have argument that God created the world in 6 calendar days (24 hours ). In the orthodox church there were two currents, Antiochian and Alexandrian. The parents of the church in Alexandria interpreted everything in the Old Testament figuratively. Not days of creation but periods in the genealogy of the bible they saw not people but generations, dynasti es if you will. The parents of the church in Antioch interpreted everything in the Old Testament literally (almost in a Protestant way). The Alexandrian vision won over time. The Orthodox Church, unlike the Catholic Church, has never sealed its authority on scientific matters. And for very good reasons too.

Protestant creationism that leaves no room for "retreat" on evoltionism it is one of the reasons why many young Protestants lose their faith when they arrived at College or University. Orthodoxy and Catholicism that leave room for interpretation they are doing very well in this regard... well...until some recent convert appears on the scene. :)

See the link I posted above ...
Are we all forgetting how GOD marks time.
A day is like a thousand years and a thousand years is as a day.
Therefore creation= 6 Thousand years.
No?
 

Pioneer

Sparrow
The first Church Father that proposed a non-literal interpretation of the seven days of creation, I believe was St. Augustine; but he proposed that it all could have happened within a few instants, not “Days”. He is right, God could have created the world in one instant. From what I remember, St. Augustine stated that the "Day" in Genesis did not necessarily be a 24 hr. period since the Sun wasn't created until the fourth day. He said that they could have been shorter periods.

As for the "young earth theory", you can find a Catholic creationist viewpoint on the following website of "The Kolbe Center for the study of creation".

To me, an old earth makes very little sense.

If God created all of creation for man (which He did) then why would He have created the universe and the earth billions of years before man existed?

And why would He have willed man to gradually evolve from organisms that evolved from other organisms that [somewhere along the lines going back billions of years] evolved from inanimate matter (i.e. theistic evolution) instead of simply making man out of the inanimate matter (i.e. a literalistic reading of Genesis 2:7)?

Theistic evolution itself has no basis... it's just an attempt to reconcile Church teaching with bad science (Darwinism (which is inherently atheistic) is not even science. It's naturalism (philosophy) being passed off as "science" by citing a few real examples of microevolution and a ton of hypothetical examples of stuff that never actually happened).

As I see it: God created man and woman as adults. When they were a day old, they would have looked 30-odd years old. You could be mistaken for thinking they had been around for 30 years.

So, perhaps God created an adult world, that scientist mistake for being millions of years old.
Also, cataclysmic events like the Fall and the Flood would have accelerated the earth's aging process, and since scientists aren't likely to factor "fables" like those into their sums, their calculations are bound to be out somewhat.

There actually is a lot of scientific evidence for a young earth. The way that scientists date fossils is pretty much circular logic: they believe that the fossils are too old to be carbon dated, so they don't use carbon dating, but instead they date the fossils according to the rock layer that they are found in. And they date the rock layer based on the other fossils that they find in it. Whenever the fossils are actually carbon dated, the result is that they're a lot younger than the assumed age (see this page). Most are still older than 6,000 years old though, but I've heard that the mathematical model can be adjusted to account for a possible difference in solar radiation and that would put them within the past 6,000 years.
 

IMMImedia

Sparrow
Wrong.
It does prove the Earth is not flat. Also, the Greeks already knew that before, because when you move North-South, there are Stars that you can or can no longer see, because they are so low in the sky, that when you move your position they are now below the Horizon.

If the Earth was flat, the sun would rise at the same time everywhere on the upper side of the Pizza.


The Geometric calculation I posted before simply gave the size of the sphere on top.

Also, every sun, planet, and moon you can see in the Heavens is spherical. What would make you assume that the Earth is special, and be flat? You know who thought the Earth is flat? The Hindus. They also thought it is being carried by turtles. What is carrying a flat Earth, and what is on the bottom side, if it has the shape of a Pizza? The whole flat Earth theory is silly and full of holes.

I understand that you are sceptical about Science, because there is a lot of fraud out there that calls itself science. Geometry however is so simple, that anyone can do it. I would call it a sacred science. Remember, the truth shall set you free, even if it goes against your current believes.

Why are you making oval earth into your religion? What does it matter to you the shape of the ground we walk around on? You have not thought over what you call "proof". I sit in the sun 6 hours a day getting a real good tan, sometimes I read a newspaper. The sun does not shine either on all the paper or none of it. It depends on the angle I hold it at, or if it is on the table. Sun still moves gradually. So if new york is top of the newpapershaped earth, and tokyo is at the bottom of it, you stil get the timezones buddyboy. You can test this for yourself scientific, kids do it all the time. go to a dark room with a lamp, move the lamp around and around a sheeet of paper that you have willpowered to hang suspended in midair. We might of course be a spinning puck in space, we can never know till we have gotten spacetourism. So if you think it is oval, square, triangle or shaped as santa clause, you still take it on faith. You are just so sure of it because you have been indocterinated the ovalists "truth". You accepted it before you questioned it, and now you are programmed that way, and want to go to space. Should not matter, your bike still works the same way, rivers run the same way, red lights are still red lights.

Same thing about the age of the earth, what does it matter? How could anybody know? It is just assumptions we abide by. It has no purpose to know it. If it is 7 000 years old or 7 billion years old changes nothing. Both give the same answer, this earth is very, very old.
 

Bluto

Kingfisher
I am under the impression that a deity that can create the whole universe that we live in can also mold space and time to anything that he wants. So one day to him can be five minutes to me or five trillion years to me.
 

YoungColonial27

Robin
Orthodox
I am under the impression that a deity that can create the whole universe that we live in can also mold space and time to anything that he wants. So one day to him can be five minutes to me or five trillion years to me.

Ah but there is a difference between God retroactively creating a universe that is identical to one 13 billion years old in every way that matters, or God kickstarting the big bang and guiding the universe as it changes afterwards.

Its not really a difference that should affect us, but it is still a big difference. Did the years before Man matter to God?
 
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