How the hell can you retire with a 401k??

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samsamsam

Peacock
Gold Member
Unfortunately for most people saving is hard enough, let alone trying to create wealth that gives you the walk away money you need.

In order to get the walk away money, you need to do something along the lines of:
1) starting your own profitable business
2) Seek out large liquidity events

There are other approaches. And don't do the stock market thing or playing forex. Unless you know what you are doing, even those who know what they are doing, still get their asses handed to them. I am cool with stable companies and dividend stocks, I have some in my portfolio that I have had for years and the yields are great compared to the original purchase price. Looks into DRIPS - makes it automatic.

Most businesses fail, so I actually wouldn't focus on that unless you have some sure fire winner idea.

I would seek out large liquidity events with risk control. For example, in real estate (we can set aside whether it is a good time or not to invest) you can take control of an undervalued asset for very little money - while you control it you can flip it or seek financing/partners. How you find these deals, a lot of hard work and I won't go into the details because there are many approaches and at the end of the day you need to find one that works for you. It might sound risky but it isn't if you priced it properly. You make your money on the acquisition of control not hoping that it will go up in value but that you know you got it cheap.

If you have cash, you can just begin to buy and sell stuff using your liquidity. A lot of people in life buy other people's problems/pain and make money off of it. It may not be sexy but it makes money. I don't use my MBA much in my business other than when we need to put our bios in something. In my business there are a lot of people that don't have great educations but have lots of money. Craigslist is full of dumbasses who bought stuff and now regret it. Ebay is another good place, if you know a certain product. Make money off of being an expert at something - don't try to buy and sell everything. I screwed up once (not a lot of money) trying to buy watches and fixing them for resale. Most of the time I am screwing around with throw away money because my mind enjoys the challenge of finding value where others do not.

If you are super risk adverse, it limits what you can do. And definitely, don't go listening to scammers. It is funny when people who are super cautious open their wallets to scammers. By being super conservative you accept lower yields as part of the peace of mind you get. So don't give up that piece of mind by letting someone else churn you for fees or flat out steal from you.

Living below your means is a big way of obtaining freedom. I know a lot of people here wanna be ballers but most won't ever drive the $100,00+ supercars, set foot on a yacht, etc. I have never cared about that stuff, it doesn't impress me and I don't care to impress others. What has always mattered is knowing that I could walk.

One time an old boss told me - "I want you, samsamsam, to obtain just the right level of debt so that you work hard but it doesn't crush you." LOL, asshole. That is how countries enslave other countries, through debt.

I got custom made suits, I know the difference between suspenders and braces, my custom made shirts don't have a front pocket and I don't monogram. I have flown private jets-big whoop. My life is to be enjoyed for me and not for others. That is freedom. And I prefer to wear shorts to work. I hate putting on the monkey suit.

But back to OP, if your goal is to set up for the long term - El Mechanico's idea about buying your place now is not a bad idea. As long as you are not in a market that has recovered too quickly, Banks are playing games with shadow inventory and the fed is printing money like a bitch right now. But if you just want to lock as place down and don't care about the ups and downs of property values then getting in now isn't so bad with the low rates. Especially if you are in a place where to can renegotiate property taxes as value moves down. Having someone else pay for it and you acting as a backstop works. Better yet, get a 4 plex. You can live in one and rent the others when you move there for retirement. Anything 4 units or less is considered residential real estate so you can get 30 year fixed mortgages. 5+ is commercial.

Hop into some decent dividend stocks for some yield. Not a big fan of bonds eventually rates will start to rise at some point and that will hurt. At some point we will have inflation, so having a mortgage will be to your benefit because you can jack rent but have a fixed cost.

Sorry to open this conversation into a rant about financial freedom. Fuck, I gotta finish some work.
 

Dexter Morgan

 
Banned
WestCoast said:
Hahaha at all the guys talking about real estate bubbles again, that means they don't understand what the govt is doing.

LOL. Please explain how QE3 (or is it 3,000; I've lost count) is NOT potentially contributing to an asset bubble. I say potentially, because the macro-economic environment is a dynamic one and there are multiple factors. But generally speaking, inflating the money supply (or more accurately, the supply of credit) while simultaneously keeping the short end of the curve low forces people to seek yield elsewhere, and that usually results in inflated asset prices. As it did with housing in the early part of the century. I.e, we've seen this movie before! LOTS of people made the case that housing couldn't be over-inflated then, but anyone who could do a simple mean-variance analysis (and who knows the difference btwn a mean-reverting market and one that isn't) could have predicted what happened.

Now, I don't think asset values are anywhere near as inflated as they were in say 2006....we're more at 2002 levels. But "hahaha" and "doesn't understand what the government is doing"? Why don't you help us "understand" what the government is doing, and how it differs from what led to the real estate crash and the credit crash of the last decade. Because it looks like a similar expansion of the supply of credit to me! And every time I've seen an expansion of credit, I've seen a subsequent unwind of credit. As this is the largest expansion of the money supply in U.S. history (the Fed wasn't even allowed to buy the sort of assets it now buys until a few years ago), i'd like to know why a bubble in real estate couldn't happen again.
 

Dexter Morgan

 
Banned
TheCaptainPower said:
Question is, if I buy something in Miami can I rent for positive cash flow?

In Brooklyn you cant...

Sometimes. I'd buy in an exclusive area like Key Biscayne and do vacation rentals. The advantage is that supply is limited - its a very exclusive area and only a few buildings allow vacation rentals; most have 3-6 month minimums. Also, its a family-oriented place and its expensive, and those two factors mean that you will generally get well-off families, not spring break kids who will trash your place. You'll mostly get families from South America, so you need to speak Spanish or have a manager/realtor who does. Compare to South Beach where 1) the prices are higher, 2) the competition is fierce, so rents aren't any higher and 3) you'll attract a lot of kids who may trash your place. I wouldn't invest there in a million years! A vacation home for personal use - yes. An investment property? NFW.
 

samsamsam

Peacock
Gold Member
TheCaptainPower said:
Question is, if I buy something in Miami can I rent for positive cash flow?

In Brooklyn you cant...

So much for work, lol...

I suggest some quick research will give you an idea.

Go to CL or some other rental site and check rents. Find an area that you would like to live some day.
Then do a search on properties in that area. I would use 20% down and calculate your mortgage payments. Don't forget insurance, prop taxes, repairs, management fee, reserves.

Do not buy a condo - you don't want the unknown pain of HOA fees rising. If you are looking into Miami I would figure out insurance premiums and the impact of potential annual 100 year storms.

If you wanna get all deep, you can check local average salaries and see if they can afford your rents. Also, it can determine if they could ever afford to buy something. Those who cannot afford to buy will have to rent. You can really spend hours crunching numbers.

And I hate Donald Trump but he said one thing I have always agreed with, "If you are ok with the worst outcome, then do the deal." Since you are not really expecting the worst to happen.

Call a Management company to get a feel of the market. And by all means visit.

These guys convinced a lot of people to buy during the last boom and hurt a lot of them. But as long as you know these guys are slick you can pull useful info to assist you in your due diligence. I am not sure if they pitching Miami property.

http://www.mrren.com/default/

For logic based analysis of the real estate market (mainly California stuff here) read this blog. http://www.doctorhousingbubble.com/ Anyone who doesn't like logic don't bother.

Best of luck.
 

WestCoast

Hummingbird
Gold Member
If your minions are under water you want them to go slightly above to keep churning for you.

In the mean time you inflate until they feel "responsible" to pay.

Dexter Morgan said:
WestCoast said:
Hahaha at all the guys talking about real estate bubbles again, that means they don't understand what the govt is doing.

LOL. Please explain how QE3 (or is it 3,000; I've lost count) is NOT potentially contributing to an asset bubble. I say potentially, because the macro-economic environment is a dynamic one and there are multiple factors. But generally speaking, inflating the money supply (or more accurately, the supply of credit) while simultaneously keeping the short end of the curve low forces people to seek yield elsewhere, and that usually results in inflated asset prices. As it did with housing in the early part of the century. I.e, we've seen this movie before! LOTS of people made the case that housing couldn't be over-inflated then, but anyone who could do a simple mean-variance analysis (and who knows the difference btwn a mean-reverting market and one that isn't) could have predicted what happened.

Now, I don't think asset values are anywhere near as inflated as they were in say 2006....we're more at 2002 levels. But "hahaha" and "doesn't understand what the government is doing"? Why don't you help us "understand" what the government is doing, and how it differs from what led to the real estate crash and the credit crash of the last decade. Because it looks like a similar expansion of the supply of credit to me! And every time I've seen an expansion of credit, I've seen a subsequent unwind of credit. As this is the largest expansion of the money supply in U.S. history (the Fed wasn't even allowed to buy the sort of assets it now buys until a few years ago), i'd like to know why a bubble in real estate couldn't happen again.
 

Dexter Morgan

 
Banned
WestCoast said:
People looking for guaranteed income, I guarantee they are broke.

I know a lot of folks with 10 figure retirement accounts who, at a certain age, shift towards income.

You're late 20's, aren't you? You have the certainty of the young.
 

Dexter Morgan

 
Banned
WestCoast said:
If your minions are under water you want them to go slightly above to keep churning for you.

In the mean time you inflate until they feel "responsible" to pay.

Dexter Morgan said:
WestCoast said:
Hahaha at all the guys talking about real estate bubbles again, that means they don't understand what the govt is doing.

LOL. Please explain how QE3 (or is it 3,000; I've lost count) is NOT potentially contributing to an asset bubble. I say potentially, because the macro-economic environment is a dynamic one and there are multiple factors. But generally speaking, inflating the money supply (or more accurately, the supply of credit) while simultaneously keeping the short end of the curve low forces people to seek yield elsewhere, and that usually results in inflated asset prices. As it did with housing in the early part of the century. I.e, we've seen this movie before! LOTS of people made the case that housing couldn't be over-inflated then, but anyone who could do a simple mean-variance analysis (and who knows the difference btwn a mean-reverting market and one that isn't) could have predicted what happened.

Now, I don't think asset values are anywhere near as inflated as they were in say 2006....we're more at 2002 levels. But "hahaha" and "doesn't understand what the government is doing"? Why don't you help us "understand" what the government is doing, and how it differs from what led to the real estate crash and the credit crash of the last decade. Because it looks like a similar expansion of the supply of credit to me! And every time I've seen an expansion of credit, I've seen a subsequent unwind of credit. As this is the largest expansion of the money supply in U.S. history (the Fed wasn't even allowed to buy the sort of assets it now buys until a few years ago), i'd like to know why a bubble in real estate couldn't happen again.

Explains nothing. How was the tech crash of 2000, the real estate crash of 2006-8, and the credit & equity markets crash of 2008 any different? All followed significant expansions of the money/credit supply. Why didn't the Fed want its "minions" to keep paying then?
 

WestCoast

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Haha.

Okay. Hint hint guys. I post during market hours. I plan on retiring in two years. I seem to know the markets well. I have stated many times if you are not at a HF running a book you're a nobody.

Take a stab what I do?

But feel free to ignore me I am not going to turn this into a posing contest. All good.

Dexter is just as certain I am wrong as I am he, so no point in arguing. Is what it is.
 

bacon

Ostrich
Gold Member
TheCaptainPower said:
Question is, if I buy something in Miami can I rent for positive cash flow?

In Brooklyn you cant...

The rule of thumb for rental properties is that it is fair value if the rent you can charge for 1 month is equal or more than 1% of the value of the rental property.

I dont like the liability and limited diversification of a rental property over REITs but the advantage is that your return on investment is more consistent because it does not flucuate with the stock price (which could fall as it did in 07 for many REITs).
 

Dexter Morgan

 
Banned
WestCoast said:
Haha.

Okay. Hint hint guys. I post during market hours. I plan on retiring in two years. I seem to know the markets well. I have stated many times if you are not at a HF running a book you're a nobody.

Take a stab what I do?

But feel free to ignore me I am not going to turn this into a posing contest. All good.

So we're just supposed to take your word for it?? I don't think you know the markets well at all! And I don't know ANYONE running a hedge fund with significant AUM who has the time to peddle a site like yours! CLEARLY the 2 & 20% on billions of AUM must exceed any value derived by your site??

Sounds like a B.S. artist to me. But, prove me wrong: Answer the questions above and DEMOSTRATE your assertion "I seem to know the markets well" Show us don't tell us.
Don't hide behind "I am not going to turn this into a posing contest. All good. Dexter is just as certain I am wrong as I am he, so no point in arguing." It's a cop out. You've been called out, son. Your cred is on the line.
 

WestCoast

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Jeez someone is upset. I won't be typing out my job on the Internet. No big deal just put me on ignore I am not about to load up my professional info.

Good luck. I already loaded a screen cap of my YTD gains on the site as well so I am not tripping.

Go to the site type: investing in stocks in the search.

Now how about your turn? Also don't see how my cred is on the line when I have met forum members already? Thanks for the offer of disclosing all my personal info though. Relax.

(Ps guys I am a 21 y/o banker who lives in a cubicle smashing my head against the keyboard).
 

Dexter Morgan

 
Banned
WestCoast said:
Jeez someone is upset. I won't be typing out my job on the Internet. No big deal just put me on ignore I am not about to load up my professional info.

Good luck.

I hear: "Blah blah blah. I got NOTHIN' of real insight to say about the markets, so i'll declare victory and go home".

Who's asking for you to post details about your job?? YOU'RE COMPLETELY ANONYMOUS HERE! YOU said we "know nothing about what the government is doing". I didn't say that for you - YOU SAID IT! In reply, I offered evidence why I think you're a fraud. When money is involved, frauds are dangerous. So please, tell us, where I am wrong about the easing that caused the boom-bust cycles of 2001, 2006 and 2008 being similar to today? Why can real estate not be in a bubble and how do we "no nothing"? Specifically.

Your cred is on the line, junior.
 

WestCoast

Hummingbird
Gold Member
^^

Bro go to site type "investing in stocks" in the search function there is my YTD returns.

I have also met members on this forum.

Stop trolling me bro, sounds like you are PMS'ing all over the keyboard. Sounds like someone got shown the conference room 5 years in... (Now I am just having fun at this point - meltdown of the week).
 

Dexter Morgan

 
Banned
WestCoast said:
^^

Bro go to site type "investing in stocks" in the search function there is my YTD returns.

I have also met members on this forum.

Stop trolling me bro, sounds like you are PMS'ing all over the keyboard

Still avoiding. WHY ís the Fed's actions today unable to lead to a bubble in real estate? YOU said people "no nothing". A man can't make a statement and not back it up. Girls do that. If you don't bring something soon, from now on, you're name is going to be "Cupcake". Every thread you're on, i'm going to post to this one, where you were called out and DIDN'T HAVE NOTHIN'.

I think you're a poseur. I DARE YOU to prove me wrong.
 

WestCoast

Hummingbird
Gold Member
^^ super meltdown. Lolllllllzzzz

So I have to write a 79 page essay on my phone right here right now or else I am a poser lollzzzzz
 

Dexter Morgan

 
Banned
WestCoast said:
^^ super meltdown. Lolllllllzzzz

So I have to write a 79 page essay on my phone right here right now or else I am a poser lollzzzzz

Dare declined, eh? I expected more from someone who talks so big...
 

Dexter Morgan

 
Banned
WestCoast said:
^^ super meltdown. Lolllllllzzzz

So I have to write a 79 page essay on my phone right here right now or else I am a poser lollzzzzz

Nope. Just a compelling couple of sentences. But if you're not up to task, we understand. The forum learned a lot about you today. Cupcake...
 
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