How to "date" as a Christian

Cortés

Woodpecker
Gold Member
RE: How to date as a Christian

Great video, his advice can definitely apply to Catholics as well

One thing I'm trying to understand in the context of dating in the church is how much you should get to know her before you formally start dating her? How do you walk the line between making your intentions of a serious relationship clear and not coming on too strong?

Its still relatively recent that ive become more involved in the church, and I'm still trying to leave behind learned habits from casual dating. Especially with balancing being aloof and showing interest.

Is the right approach just making small talk with various people in the community, and after some time if a single woman sticks out to you, then you start asking for blessings from family, priest, etc?
 
RE: How to date as a Christian

I think around 4:20 is really good advice, don't start "dating" until you are "ready to do business." Towards 5:15 is also good in his pointing out that marriage is really a managed thing that is public and communal, if right done and understood --- so "get permission before you start". I think the further the culture got individualized and less "arranged" marriages became, the worse off everyone got on average. Of course, the longshot "soulmate" foolishness only served to hurt all those who thought everything was possible, or at least women with pie in the sky notions that only were attempts of satisfying hindbrain hypergamy.

Fr. Josiah is always worth listening to, and considering.
 

Roosh

Cardinal
RE: How to date as a Christian

Cortés said:
Great video, his advice can definitely apply to Catholics as well

One thing I'm trying to understand in the context of dating in the church is how much you should get to know her before you formally start dating her? How do you walk the line between making your intentions of a serious relationship clear and not coming on too strong?

Its still relatively recent that ive become more involved in the church, and I'm still trying to leave behind learned habits from casual dating. Especially with balancing being aloof and showing interest.

Is the right approach just making small talk with various people in the community, and after some time if a single woman sticks out to you, then you start asking for blessings from family, priest, etc?

A problem is you often won't know much about a new girl you just met. That makes it difficult to get the proper blessings from the beginning when you don't even know if you really want to court her. You may still need more information about her personality, background, faith, etc.

One potential option is to add a brief friendship period before beginning an official courtship. You tell a girl that you would like to be friends with her, and if you believe there is a match, you will ask her to enter a courtship. This friendship period can be short, maybe 1-3 months. You can meet once a week over tea. If it's not a match, you amicably go separate ways. If it's a match, you then receive the proper blessings to begin courtship. I have tried this on one girl, and we didn't make it out of the friendship stage, but it ended without any drama or heartache.
 
RE: How to date as a Christian

About a dozen Orthodox friends were at his event yesterday, sounds like a good time but without too much matchmaking success from the initial reports. Just remember to be discerning, fellas. Behavior is always more important than words when it comes to whether someone truly lives the way they say they do (and Father Josiah would be the first to point that out).
 

Roosh

Cardinal
RE: How to date as a Christian

SantoDom said:
I thought dating was originally a homosexual activity?

For those who are secular, it helps to use their terms to start building understanding. Courtship is what Father Josiah really speaks off and what this really is.
 
While I’m happily married, here are my thoughts as to what worked for me: 1) avoid dating apps (this is becoming common knowledge for secular guys). The frame of dating apps (what can he do for me) is inverse to healthy marriage. This is also a curse to women because the majority hold unrealistic expectations (all want 6ft tall men with six figure incomes, etc...). Thus, real world interactions are key to avoid the ridiculous filters women use in dating apps.

With point 1 in mind (real > virtual), point 2 is to avoid traditional “hookup” venues (bars, clubs, etc...). Again, you want the future mother of your children not be connected to those activities. Bonus: you’ll helpfully filter 99% of female mental cases—narcissism and BPD.

Point 3 is to focus on hobbies, volunteering & activities to expand your social circle. This invokes the “old school” way of matchmaking: that people seeing you do good and productive things will be interested if you have a significant other. Such referrals (i.e. filtering) can help finding a quality mate.

Point 4 is to avoid “false positives.” Assuming you’re healthy & take care of yourself, you should find yourself getting a fair amount of female attention. The lack of masculinity is very apparent with female-lead households and popular press pushing men to wear dresses, etc... sorry, it’s all lies: women want to follow a strong man. So, you MUST be discriminating. Read Proverbs. Then read it again and ask: how many times does it warn you of women?

Point 4a is to realize that the “Red Pill” was created in reaction to trauma—that the system requires sacrifice of men without the honor or privilege of the previous system. Perhaps the deeper wisdom is to realize that the Bible is the “reddest of Red Pills.” Simply put: the essence of human nature is Adam and Eve—that we have God-given roles (God > Man > Woman > Child) and temptations: that of Eve’s itch to deny God and rule men (feminism) and Adam’s itch to be lead by women and to deny God.

So, point 4 is the most difficult: avoiding the wrong kinds of women because they can ruin your life. Couple of basic rules: 1) she must have good health (reasonable body weight and no mental health—no bipolar, BPD or NPD), 2) be willing to submit, and 3) be a virgin or close to it (no more than 2 partners). I did not say she must be a Christian because you can bring her to the faith with your strong frame (but being a Christian is helpful).

So, I feel for younger men—it’s a wasteland in many areas (even a secular guy like Goldmund says as much). Pray and follow the spirit. If you fornicate with her, your feelings will overpower clear thinking. Every challenge is an opportunity to show Grace.
 

KingDavid

Sparrow
Magnus Stout said:
While I’m happily married, here are my thoughts as to what worked for me: 1) avoid dating apps (this is becoming common knowledge for secular guys). The frame of dating apps (what can he do for me) is inverse to healthy marriage. This is also a curse to women because the majority hold unrealistic expectations (all want 6ft tall men with six figure incomes, etc...). Thus, real world interactions are key to avoid the ridiculous filters women use in dating apps.

With point 1 in mind (real > virtual), point 2 is to avoid traditional “hookup” venues (bars, clubs, etc...). Again, you want the future mother of your children not be connected to those activities. Bonus: you’ll helpfully filter 99% of female mental cases—narcissism and BPD.

Point 3 is to focus on hobbies, volunteering & activities to expand your social circle. This invokes the “old school” way of matchmaking: that people seeing you do good and productive things will be interested if you have a significant other. Such referrals (i.e. filtering) can help finding a quality mate.

Point 4 is to avoid “false positives.” Assuming you’re healthy & take care of yourself, you should find yourself getting a fair amount of female attention. The lack of masculinity is very apparent with female-lead households and popular press pushing men to wear dresses, etc... sorry, it’s all lies: women want to follow a strong man. So, you MUST be discriminating. Read Proverbs. Then read it again and ask: how many times does it warn you of women?

Point 4a is to realize that the “Red Pill” was created in reaction to trauma—that the system requires sacrifice of men without the honor or privilege of the previous system. Perhaps the deeper wisdom is to realize that the Bible is the “reddest of Red Pills.” Simply put: the essence of human nature is Adam and Eve—that we have God-given roles (God > Man > Woman > Child) and temptations: that of Eve’s itch to deny God and rule men (feminism) and Adam’s itch to be lead by women and to deny God.

So, point 4 is the most difficult: avoiding the wrong kinds of women because they can ruin your life. Couple of basic rules: 1) she must have good health (reasonable body weight and no mental health—no bipolar, BPD or NPD), 2) be willing to submit, and 3) be a virgin or close to it (no more than 2 partners). I did not say she must be a Christian because you can bring her to the faith with your strong frame (but being a Christian is helpful).

So, I feel for younger men—it’s a wasteland in many areas (even a secular guy like Goldmund says as much). Pray and follow the spirit. If you fornicate with her, your feelings will overpower clear thinking. Every challenge is an opportunity to show Grace.

What's the relationship with your wife like? How do you deal with the feminist propaganda that's everywhere, and is constantly making women feel inadequate like they have to compete with men?

There are just so many traps that constantly pull women away from God and attempt to turn them into revolutionaries and destroyers.
 
What's the relationship with your wife like? How do you deal with the feminist propaganda that's everywhere, and is constantly making women feel inadequate like they have to compete with men?

There are just so many traps that constantly pull women away from God and attempt to turn them into revolutionaries and destroyers.

Thanks for asking.

Part of our good chemistry is that fact I remind her of her father—a high-level martial artist and swordsman (we joke that he was born in the wrong century). She likes that I am handsome, decisive, steady under pressure, and a good captain of the relationship. She is, in essence, *willing to submit.*

But because my wife comes from a liberal background, I have to periodically pull those noxious feminist weeds (silly “gurl power” nonsense). The rule “don’t tell her, show her (or allow her to find the reason herself)” applies. The other helpful tool is playful mocking (girls like that), such as at her weakness for being unable to open jars, mechanical incompetence, etc.... Proving value (through Amused Mastery) is another good tool, such as installing appliances, fixing bikes, motors, etc... A lot of that is just a matter of being playful/attractively dominant to her.

Women like to sh1t test regularly, so learning to Ace those is key. I was not a “natural,” so I had to learn a few things. It’s interesting that True Naturals are often bad teachers, since they “just get it” and have trouble explaining; the arts are best taught by the Learned Masters.

Finally, part of your courage to meet and tame women should spring from this: while rejection hurts, understand most women love and need men (& yes, actions and words are often misaligned in them, which is endlessly confusing for men). Men often want sex soo badly we let women dictate the terms of our relationships. Women can sense weakness/neediness and it massively turns them off. But, women need us *far* more than we need them—that should be your mental point of origin. I can sense the primal attraction women (even pozzed) have for the masculine. They don’t want equals; they want to be *lead* by a superior man. Control of your libido is important.

Remember: Adam was created first and Eve was to be his helper. Don’t marry a woman who refuses to submit or who can’t be a helper to you. My wife is very feminine and loves to cook and take care of our children. She loves being a housewife. There are lots of other women who’d like the same arrangement (most honestly hate working 9 to 5). Part of your “filtering” is subtly testing for resistance to those ideas and getting her to qualify herself to you.

Finally, leading worship in your home is a powerful tool. Look, we serve God the Father (not some silly mother goddess nonsense). Your self-sacrificial love for your family is modeled on the Father. We help nourish the faith by being good fathers ourselves. A good wife and mother will want to support you in that area.
 

Blade Runner

Kingfisher
As for older Christians that are not married and dating. For you too, I'd say don't think of yourselves as so special. You are nothing ...

Who will bury you?

Who will remember you?

Anyone?

Trying to find someone worthwhile (as Magnus said, willing to submit, and yes that's how I define it) can be perceived as picky or thinking oneself special, but it's not. This is where the rubber hits the road. Often this is female projection on men (most women do count themselves more special than reality), though I'm sure there are plenty of men who think haughtily of themselves as well.

Being older is not easy, but yes, it's easier for men. As for the who will bury you and who will remember you, those are nice to think about, but ultimately they are material considerations, yes "of this world". Very holy people have had neither but had their focus on the right, eternal things and I'm sure were rewarded. Note that children for many are also of this world --- while certainly a blessing --- they can, and are oftentimes a reflection of our fear of death as procreation does have an aspect of life eternal to it. So, the desire to replicate ourselves and our own narcissism can be used the wrong way and with the wrong focus, I'm sure you all have noticed.

The hardest part about aging is that if you aren't called to be a frank monastic, and you are a man, the sex thing never goes away. It's amusing that Socrates said it went away from him late in life but I'm pretty sure St. Anthony the Great said it would never leave.
 

KingDavid

Sparrow
Thanks for asking.

Part of our good chemistry is that fact I remind her of her father—a high-level martial artist and swordsman (we joke that he was born in the wrong century). She likes that I am handsome, decisive, steady under pressure, and a good captain of the relationship. She is, in essence, *willing to submit.*

But because my wife comes from a liberal background, I have to periodically pull those noxious feminist weeds (silly “gurl power” nonsense). The rule “don’t tell her, show her (or allow her to find the reason herself)” applies. The other helpful tool is playful mocking (girls like that), such as at her weakness for being unable to open jars, mechanical incompetence, etc.... Proving value (through Amused Mastery) is another good tool, such as installing appliances, fixing bikes, motors, etc... A lot of that is just a matter of being playful/attractively dominant to her.

Women like to sh1t test regularly, so learning to Ace those is key. I was not a “natural,” so I had to learn a few things. It’s interesting that True Naturals are often bad teachers, since they “just get it” and have trouble explaining; the arts are best taught by the Learned Masters.

Finally, part of your courage to meet and tame women should spring from this: while rejection hurts, understand most women love and need men (& yes, actions and words are often misaligned in them, which is endlessly confusing for men). Men often want sex soo badly we let women dictate the terms of our relationships. Women can sense weakness/neediness and it massively turns them off. But, women need us *far* more than we need them—that should be your mental point of origin. I can sense the primal attraction women (even pozzed) have for the masculine. They don’t want equals; they want to be *lead* by a superior man. Control of your libido is important.

Remember: Adam was created first and Eve was to be his helper. Don’t marry a woman who refuses to submit or who can’t be a helper to you. My wife is very feminine and loves to cook and take care of our children. She loves being a housewife. There are lots of other women who’d like the same arrangement (most honestly hate working 9 to 5). Part of your “filtering” is subtly testing for resistance to those ideas and getting her to qualify herself to you.

Finally, leading worship in your home is a powerful tool. Look, we serve God the Father (not some silly mother goddess nonsense). Your self-sacrificial love for your family is modeled on the Father. We help nourish the faith by being good fathers ourselves. A good wife and mother will want to support you in that area.

Fantastic, this answer will give hope to all the single guys here. As far as attractiveness, how would you rate yourself and your wife? You can give examples of people you guys look like to gives us a picture.

You seem to have a great marriage and we can all learn from it, God bless.
 
Fantastic, this answer will give hope to all the single guys here. As far as attractiveness, how would you rate yourself and your wife? You can give examples of people you guys look like to gives us a picture.

You seem to have a great marriage and we can all learn from it, God bless.

Most women like to marry “up.” Whether the fact that you’re taller or make more money—they want to “look up” to their man.

I rate my SMV as a 8 and my wife as a 6. We joked that neither of us would have picked the other in a dating app (I had dated prettier women and she had dated richer and taller men). But, real world interactions are key. From our first conversations we just “clicked.”

We still have good chemistry (which for a relationship is like tailwinds on an airplane). But, that can also be built with lots of marriage sex and children. Children really are the crucible that either builds or breaks a marriage. Children light the fire under a man to produce/build and help focus a woman’s energies (and satiate her need for drama).

Ultimately, marriage is like tending a garden. Some gardens are easier to maintain than others, but all involve some work. The worse thing is to have magical thinking: that it’s all just a matter of finding the one-right-person and then marriage is just a downhill slope. Nope! But, it’s worth it for most people.
 

Roosh

Cardinal
Fantastic, this answer will give hope to all the single guys here. As far as attractiveness, how would you rate yourself and your wife? You can give examples of people you guys look like to gives us a picture.

You seem to have a great marriage and we can all learn from it, God bless.
What does her attractiveness have to do with a marriage centered around faith? Do you want her to elicit lust from you or keep you in a state of sexual arousal?
 

redbeard

Hummingbird
Moderator
A great book on courtship is "Clean Love in Courtship." Here's a pdf:


It's a quick read but outlines exactly what you should and should not do in the courtship process.
 
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