How to forgive my family when this is over...

LeoniusD

Pelican
Gnostic or New Age
Family is family - try to keep the harmony. I have stopped arguing with some family members, because they just said that my experts and data is just countered by their mainstream experts and we are not experts and should not decide ourselves. Thinking is only allowed once you studied virology and obviously follow the mainstream path, because otherwise you are just a quack.

I am staying clear of the covid topic, but it gives it all a bad damper. I noted that this covid belief separates people from each other, but I guess that this was created also for that added benefit.

It is sad, but we have to deal with it. And the worst part is that it may not go away for a long time in many countries. They may want to change behavioral patterns forever.
 
My extended family is going bonkers over COVID and Christmas today. Honestly though I don't think they're scared of getting sick, not really at least. I also don't think its because they don't want to see other family members - My uncle and his wife, who are going nuts, have been gracious Christmas hosts for decades.

My opinion is that their motivations lay with social shaming. They don't want their neighbors to see a bunch of cars outside their home and people walking in with food and gifts. They're also terrified of a family member getting what would be considered a cold, by a sane person, and blaming themselves for it.

My boomer relatives are plugged into the news 8 hours a day. I forgive them and hope next year I get to share the holiday with them.
 

kingtufti

 
Banned
Catholic
My father and brother are being total, total dicks...

My brother just pretty much literally kicked me out of his house, refused to hear.a word about the boosters and accused me of having lost it.

My father, pfff...

They've been rude, condescending and dismissive for years.

When this is over I could easily never let it go...

But they've been lied to, on massive scale.

When this all kicked off I told my bro it could all lead to a dystopian future beyond his imagination... he condescendingly told me, no, no... it was all about two weeks to 'flatten the curve'...

My father has read the paper daily, cover to cover, all his life.

They must know they've been had. It's all willful blindness and pain avoiding denial at this point.

That's why they won't listen and get angry when I try to show them what they must know, at least subciously.

It's not their fault.
 

Max Roscoe

Pelican
Orthodox Inquirer
The Matrix analogy may be getting long in the tooth, but there really is a shock that many people cannot handle by swallowing the red pill. To believe that all the media, whose entire purpose is to inform, is really inverted and they tell us lies. To believe that our leaders are mostly evil satanic sexual deviants. To believe that our schools are teaching our children to hate themselves for the color of the skin and the presence of their genitalia. To believe that democracy is bad. To believe that we have too much freedom. To realize that America is a pawn to the Synagogue of Satan, to anal sex, to transgenderism. All that is asking a WHOLE lot of people. And it is a really, really large burden. I do understand the scene where Cypher decides he wants to forget the red pill and be reinserted into the Matrix.

It is mentally exhausting to know all of this stuff, and more. It would be so nice to just turn on the tv, and just absorb knowledge, and believe everything I was told, which is how things are supposed to work. It would be good to trust medical workers entrusted with public health to actually advise us on what is healthy and what is not. This is the way things are supposed to be. And so I don't dislike any of my family who is still in that world, operating under the belief that it is working the way it is supposed to.

Even going back to the old PUA days, there were close friends I know who just could never accept certain truths about women and the sexes. It was just too difficult for them to believe that no, we are not all the same, and that men and women are different. And it is the same here. So don't be too hard on family or friends who have fallen for lies. The alternative is having a society that trusts no one and is ever suspicious.
 

Tedd

Pigeon
Agnostic
Here's a perspective that has helped me deal with these things:

The vast majority of people simply aren't equipped for going against their social environment. Humans are fundamentally social before they are rational and will almost always choose conformity above reality. For this it doesn't matter at all how irrational or absurd their convictions are. It's human nature.

The degree to which we are driven by our hormones should not be ignored either. Most decisions we make and opinions we have are driven more by gut instinct rather then rational contemplation. Within a few decades testosterone levels have declined dramatically across the west. Testosterone is highly associated with support for minority opinions (also honesty and generosity) to a degree that in studies people with high T tend to support minority opinions for the sheer fact that they are minority opinions. Low T is associated with conformity, groupthink and aggression against and bullying of people with minority opinions.

Here is a great summary on the effects of testosterone by Ryan Faulk:
This doesn't free them from responsibility but I think it somewhat limits their agency. We should judge them in the context of their environment. Going against the group isn't simply an issue of understanding, it is an internal fight against your body.

Instead of arguing with family members, trying to have a positive effect on their lifestyle probably has a much larger effect. Chances are that a small increase in testosterone will do far more then having heard all the arguments.
 
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Grow Bag

Pelican
Orthodox Inquirer
The red-pill analogy is getting a bit long in the tooth. It suggests that there's a point at which one makes a decision and then reality falls into place. Likely most of us came to see reality slowly, incrementally. That's how it was for me anyway. In the beginning I just kept getting thoughts, "something isn't right here", but could quite grasp why. I was seeing contradictions in the narrative and at the same time researched and avidly soaked up various writers and commentators. It became an intellectual understanding more than a heart understanding. It wasn't until I stopped reading newspapers and watching TV news that certain truths solidified.

And something that doesn't get mentioned much, but for me was critical, is Christianity. When I got to the stage of viewing the world as being in the throes of a malevolent force that tipped what was good on it's head, I could no longer sit on the fence about Christ. It was one question that many people struggle with and that usually sends them back to the blue-pill, how can such coordination be possible? People often say, 'but surely people would speak out or simply refuse to go along with the agenda'. 'No, no, no, the world is far too chaotic'. Or they'll say, 'there's no agenda, it's just incompetence'. But once you start seeing patterns, you just know that plans are being executed, often brilliantly. That's when the nature and intelligence of evil kept coming to my mind. It's the glue that binds everything together. These are not human endeavours, humans are just vessels of an evil that is working it's way to some sort of fruition.

It's not enough to be a Christian either. I went past the Pentecostal church that doubles as a vaccination centre just the other day and thought to myself that they are now likely facilitating the clot shot for children. These Christians have marinaded in liberalism their whole lives and cannot distinguish this false, mock up from actual Christianity. The 2 get intertwined. It was helpful for me to understand some history, especially the Renaissance and Enlightenment periods, before it all fell into place. For a good few years I've had no shadow of doubt that liberalism is an evil facsimile of Christianity with science replacing God. It's this appropriation of Christian virtue that fools people into believing they're doing good, when in fact they are doing evil.

As for forgiveness: "Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do".
 
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El Draque

Pelican
Orthodox
My father and brother are being total, total dicks...

My brother just pretty much literally kicked me out of his house, refused to hear.a word about the boosters and accused me of having lost it.

My father, pfff...

They've been rude, condescending and dismissive for years.

When this is over I could easily never let it go...

But they've been lied to, on massive scale.

When this all kicked off I told my bro it could all lead to a dystopian future beyond his imagination... he condescendingly told me, no, no... it was all about two weeks to 'flatten the curve'...

My father has read the paper daily, cover to cover, all his life.

They must know they've been had. It's all willful blindness and pain avoiding denial at this point.

That's why they won't listen and get angry when I try to show them what they must know, at least subciously.

It's not their fault.

Could've written this myself, word for word.

It's infuriating at first, now i just ignore their views on pretty much anything, see them as the NPCs that they are.

Fact is my father and my brother are both highly intelligent (father especially, at least was). Latter had a very successful career in statistics, PhD in it, just a very capable analytical mind.

Yet he has swallowed all the nonsense pretty much start to finish. Ultimately i think its because he's cucked by his wife, her daughters (one's a doctor, so naturally is the font of all knowledge...) and his once sky high T has diminished rapidly. He'll go along with what government and civil service say, because that's how he's lived his entire life. He cant comprehend that they could all be so corrupted.

My brother is not textbook cucked, but has essentially matriachral views on society. He is CEO of a start up and had his workers masking up while walking around the office, going bathroom, making tea etc, but at their desks, fine.

I couldnt believe it when he told me, i just laughed and said that's absurd, use your brain. But still cant comprehend it, purely because they DONT WANT TO.

It's not intellectual failings that make people go along with this, it's cowardice, and a desperate clinging on to the narrative life-line that the Television Man has thrown them. "if we just do X, we should be able to muddle through!".

He was talking about getting his kids injected out of "social responsibility" about 5 months ago (when last spoke).

Essentially it's 'mental comfort' that they seek at every turn.

At a certain point all you can do is shrug, and think 'thats the course they want to sail off on, let them'.
 

bucky

Ostrich
Other Christian
The Matrix analogy may be getting long in the tooth, but there really is a shock that many people cannot handle by swallowing the red pill. To believe that all the media, whose entire purpose is to inform, is really inverted and they tell us lies. To believe that our leaders are mostly evil satanic sexual deviants. To believe that our schools are teaching our children to hate themselves for the color of the skin and the presence of their genitalia. To believe that democracy is bad. To believe that we have too much freedom. To realize that America is a pawn to the Synagogue of Satan, to anal sex, to transgenderism. All that is asking a WHOLE lot of people. And it is a really, really large burden. I do understand the scene where Cypher decides he wants to forget the red pill and be reinserted into the Matrix.

It is mentally exhausting to know all of this stuff, and more. It would be so nice to just turn on the tv, and just absorb knowledge, and believe everything I was told, which is how things are supposed to work. It would be good to trust medical workers entrusted with public health to actually advise us on what is healthy and what is not. This is the way things are supposed to be. And so I don't dislike any of my family who is still in that world, operating under the belief that it is working the way it is supposed to.
Another aspect of this is that it's safer, in the short term, to accept the globohomo narrative and make an effort to believe in it.

And it does require effort, because in spite of the constant MSM propaganda, it's all so irrational. I have a lot of family and people I know and get along with who are high IQ and nevertheless accept the COVID narrative, that a "transwoman" is really a woman, that it makes sense for real women to spend their peak years of fertility focusing on career and traveling, that all races are exactly the same but white people are also evil, things like that.

Some are close enough that I've occasionally tried to convince them otherwise with simple and irrefutable facts. When I do this I can see logic starting to work on them, but then fear almost always takes over. They know what will happen to them eventually if they let me persuade them and then get caught openly agreeing with me. To be honest, even I have accepted that I'll likely end up in prison or some kind of gulag eventually because of things I've said online or in conversations that were supposed to be private in real life. I think it's still better to cling to the truth in the long term but it takes a degree of courage that many people just don't have.
 

Pantheon

Robin
Orthodox
Normies can give rational explanations as to why you should take the jab. You can make a scientific case both for and against it. Both sides can make each other look as idiots. So it comes down to values.

Normies are not aware of the spiritual world, they don't even think it exists. They live inside the secular narrative. That's why taking the jab is a zero sum game for them, morally speaking. The jab is more dangerous for Christians. If you are committed to Christ and believe in God but still buy into the secular covid narrative, it means you have neglected matters of the soul.

So what can we do but to pray for our secular friends and families? We live in different worlds.
 
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Aleksandar

 
Banned
Other Christian
Let's not forget these words:

And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.
Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.

And another also said, Lord, I will follow thee; but let me first go bid them farewell, which are at home at my house.
And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

We have to understand that difficult decisions will have to be made. Let's remember some more words from the Lord:

And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

If your closest relatives and family members, can't be cured of Satan's lies, when we honestly made a loving effort to help them, it's time to move on. Keep them in their prayers, but we can't mix with people who chose (yes, chose) to go along with Satan. They were told the truth by you, you made an honest, loving attempt to cure them of their fear and blindness, they decided to trust Satan - it's over for them.

This seems harsh, but this path ain't for everyone.

May God open the eyes of all people deceived by Satan, may God work trough us to connect them with the Truth.

Amen.
 

Max Roscoe

Pelican
Orthodox Inquirer
Another aspect of this is that it's safer, in the short term, to accept the globohomo narrative and make an effort to believe in it.

And it does require effort, because in spite of the constant MSM propaganda, it's all so irrational. I have a lot of family and people I know and get along with who are high IQ and nevertheless accept the COVID narrative, that a "transwoman" is really a woman, that it makes sense for real women to spend their peak years of fertility focusing on career and traveling, that all races are exactly the same but white people are also evil, things like that.
What you are describing is a fundamental flaw of democracy.

It is almost always safer in the short term to believe false narratives.


It is safer to believe that "Iraq has WMD and hates us for our freedoms" because if that is true then there is a nonzero risk that you or people you know could be murdered in a Hollywood-style sabotage event, and if it is false, it doesn't *personally* cost you much (it does cost you your freedoms and a lot of tax money in the long run but people are not rational in the long run and are often unable to foresee this).

It is safer to believe that trans women are women because it costs little to believe in that fantasy, just as it would cost me little to believe in unicorns.

The problem with democracy is that it *values* the opinions of the masses, which, as you pointed out, are incentivized to believe in false narratives, all things being equal. In non-democratic societies, housewives and bakers and farmers and schoolteachers wouldn't be bothered with the Tranny question or the Iraq question or anything else; they would leave those decisions up to the monarchy / priest class / intellectuals / philosopher king who would then figure out what is this tranny talking about and what are we going to do with it? And then they would just follow the advice of their wise leaders.

And who, by the way, would NEVER come up with the answer "let's coddle and prioritize it and tell it that it's an actual member of the opposite sex and tell our doctors they must pretend to do breast exams and pap smears on it"
 

Zep

Pelican
Other Christian
I've found that the best strategy for "waking people up" is simply to ask them questions.
That probably only works on more intelligent, thoughtful people, but that has been my experience.

You can point out a few facts and then ask a probing question and just leave it there.
Remember, people are supposed to trust others.
Trusting others, especially those who are supposedly LEADERS is a good thing.
Your family is not bad for listening to liars. If we didn't listen to others we would have anarchy, not order.
The problem is our leaders are mostly corrupt and evil.

Remember, people don't change their minds instantly. Unless they are some kind of idiot.
So you ask a question, one that will stick with them for days, weeks, years even.

The people on this site are a small subset of people who routinely question reality. Even the old site, it was people who questioned what we are told about women versus how women actually are. So of course people here are going to be very independent, suspicious, questioning, etc. But think about how you used to be, on any given issue. Did someone yell, or snap at you, and suddenly you realized they were right? Or did you hear some bit of truth or fact, and thought about it for a long time, eventually realizing it was true?

How do thousand foot tall buildings fall straight into their footprint?
Why haven't we flown to the moon in my lifetime?
Why do women like "bad" guys?
How does a piece of paper or cloth stop a tiny virus?
Why was there "record election turnout" this year?
Why would Assad gas his own people?
Why would Russia hack an American election? and how could facebook penis jokes seen by 10,000 influence the outcome?
How is diversity a strength?
Why is letting people use recreational drugs a good idea, other than the intangible concept of "freedom"?

And some of my favorites are just making pointed observations that one can't really disagree with, and moving on.

Did you know the law giving us $600 checks each is the longest bill ever passed? Over 5,500 pages. Bet they were working on that for a while.
Isn't it weird how many of our leaders talk about "spirit cooking" ?
I sure do touch my face a lot more often when I'm wearing a mask.
I read some of the John Podesta emails. Do you know any adults who love to throw pizza parties and eat hot dogs ?
It's really strange how we had record voter turnout in 2020 during a pandemic.
I know Israel is our greatest ally, but it seems like giving Israelis $4,200 each while we only get $600 is a little unfair.
Did you ever notice how homosexuals are in every movie or tv show, but aren't that common in real life?
That's really unfortunate that the government lost JFK's brain right after his autopsy.
I wish NASA hadn't lost the tapes of the moon landing. I bet that was incredible to watch.
Gosh we sure are lucky the 2019 coronavirus didn't mutate annually like every other flu.
Oh what's that? There *IS* a new mutation of the coronavirus? Well gosh, I'm glad the vaccine still works on it anyway.
Too bad they can't make a flu vaccine that works that way.
My immune system is pretty weak after being trapped inside for months.
I don't want to get an unpleasant illness either, but I also want to have some memories with my family and continue to live life to its fullest.

Don't tell or insinuate that your family is "stupid" because they are following the rules. Just point out that the rules are not helping us. If this virus was really so deadly then why are airplanes still allowed to fly, when people sit just inches away from each other? If masks were so important, couldn't the wealthiest nation on earth at least produce the most effective "N95" variety for its people to wear? It would surely save thousands of lives.

Force them to think about an unpleasant fact that can't fit the narrative, and even if they remain vigilant about their health, they will probably be more reasonable about things. BUT THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS TO AVOID THE MEDIA. I opened Drudge the other day and it was 5 BOLD PRINT HEADLINES about massive American deaths, which shocked and confused me, and I felt genuine fear and worry. People absolutely cannot be exposed to lies on a daily basis, whether it is "masks work", "Russia Russia Russia" "we are close to winning in Afghanistan" or whatever hoax they come up with next. You simply cannot overcome repetition.

Haha, this is a brilliant strategy, everyone should employ this. It's not confrontational and if you leave an unanswered question in a recipient's mind, the mind often needs to resolve the problem.
 

JoeChill

Robin
Protestant
Gold Member
Guys, find a church which is staying open in defiance of lockdown orders. It doesn't matter if you have to commute an hour or two to get there. It doesn't even matter whether you believe in Christianity.
EXCELLENT advice! Christians need to support each other during this time of state oppression and the brave clergymen who are defying Baal deserve our help.
 

JoeChill

Robin
Protestant
Gold Member
Also, and I know this is slightly off-topic so I won't delve into it too much, you could try putting a one-page document about the pitfalls of lockdowns/injections/etc. I did this around my neighborhood for a while. It made me feel like I was doing something against state tyranny.
 

02Hero

 
Banned
Other Christian
My parents completely changed over the last year. They were pro-vaccine and believed everything from the media. Now they are against. Although still somewhat plugged in. Way less. So it is possible. My parents are in the 65-70 range.

It is not impossible. The most important thing is to stay calm and consistent. Just keep asking questions and say what is on your mind to them. Key is to stay calm and not become angry. I used to be a hothead and would explode to them if they would say some BS from the media. It is not fair to them and it is not persuasive. That is a LOSE LOSE situation.

Look most people are just lost and look for a guide. Especially now-a-days. I would not get too angry with them. We all make mistakes. Including HUGE ones. Sometimes it takes time for people to change their stance as it can require energy to do so. So the older the person the more patience you need to have in most cases as they have less energy to spare to change their habits. But they still have it, it just takes a bit longer.

I read some people who say forgiveness is a weakness. It is not from my experience. Forgiveness lightens the soul. It is like throwing away a bag full of garbage that you keep with you all the time.
 

soli.deo.gloria

Woodpecker
Orthodox Inquirer
Gold Member
My approach would be to lead them toward God, both in your words and by setting a good example to show them a better way. The next best you can do to help is to pray for them unceasingly. And perhaps most importantly don't allow them to drag you down. Your first priority needs to be your own salvation, which is hard enough without trying to help others. Do what you can to help always, but as Jesus said remove the plank from your own eye before removing the speck from your brothers eye. If everyone did this then we would all be better off. And always forgive, especially those who persecute or are unkind to you. It is easy to forgive and love people who are nice to you, but it is much harder and more rewarding and edifying to God when we forgive and love those who do wrong to us.
 
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